Torterra(stockpile turtle)

Although Torterra is well known for being one of the slower pokemon in UU and the meta-game in general, Torterra can backup this lack of speed with its great ability to not only wall, but pack a punch with its 109 base attack. This set focuses on utilizing its high 105 base defense and above-par 85 base special defense by boosting them with stockpile. By using stockpile, Torterra can become a long-term threat with its decent moveset to use its attack to its fullest potential.




[Overview]

Positive facts:
-High base defense and above average sp. defense make stockpile very useful
-Ground typing allows it free switch in on electric moves
-109 base attack w/ access to Stab earthquake, woodhammer/seed bomb

Negative facts:
-4x ice damage
-low speed
-loses water resistance with ground typing

[Set]
name: Stockpile turtle
item: leftovers
nature: calm
evs: 248 Hp/84 Def/176 SpD
move 1: Stockpile
move 2: Earthquake/Woodhammer
move 3: Roar/Woodhammer
move 4: Synthesis

[Set comments]
The idea of this set is to come in against either a pokemon who it can easily scare away or switch in to a predicted electric move. You stockpile on the switch giving you the +1/+1. The idea is to get up 2 or 3 stockpiles. You most likely shouldn't try to bring this in to early so you give yourself a chance to get rid of any obvious ice or fire users. Earthquake and woodhammer offer STAB attacks allowing torterra the ability to counter some of its usual counters easier after a stockpile or two. Roar is a very good move on this set as it gives you a way to deal with counters and allows for more turns to heal up on the switch. Synthesis is a must for the last slot as it gives you a reliable healing move and provides you to stay bulky for longer. This move also allows you to get your +3/+3 up easier as you can take the extra damage and just recover it off the next turn.
[Team members/counters]

Team Members

Torterra would greatly enjoy something to take out opposing fire/ice using pokemon. Lanturn makes a good partner being able to take out waters, common ice move users, and also being able to remove fire pokemon from the field with surf. Milotic also works pretty well offering a bulky counter to fire users along with the ability to remove waters with Hp grass or electric. Stealth Rocks and spikes are a definate necessity for torterra when using this set. With roar it can constantly cause entry damage to all pokemon eventually wearing them down enough to possibly open up a sweep, or to just kill them off with the woodhammer/earthquake. Also, a member with healbell would be useful to prevent toxic users from causing havoc on this set.

Counters

Blaziken is a good counter as it can OHKO with fire blast while using life orb even after a stockpile. Ice beam hits torterra hard making ludicolo a very good counter being able to absorb torterra's attacks and has the ability to OHKO with ice beam even after a stockpile. Other ice beam users work well as they can manage to do work against torterra being able to at least 2HKO him. Phazers can easily remove torterra along with his boosts making it challenging for him to reach his potential again. Specs Sceptile using Hp ice is a major threat as it can easily switch in to any of torterra's attacks and return OHKO with a Hp ice. Trick users and toxic abusers easily ruin this set. Limiting it to only one move unless your locked into say roar or earthquake, can really ruin this set. Toxic is an obvious because as this not only forces a switch at times, but it also removes the effectiveness as a tank if it loses an increased amount of hp each turn.

[Reasons to be published]

-Maximizes defense stats making it a useful tank
-Only set that utilizes the stockpile ability
-Superior to tank due to higher defensive ability and higher attack
-Works similar to stockpilopotamus set but for UU

It seems like a viable set, but I would recommend changing one of the attack moves or at least slashing one of them with synthesis. I have found that while using pokemon that use a move that raises both their sp.d and defense (Such as Cosmic Power Clefable) that having a move to restore health is a lot more beneficial in the mong run.

Just my small thought on the set. Hope it helps.

That could work but what would you suggest adding it onto? Leech seed/Stone edge? or Earthquake?

I remember using a Torterra similar to this and it has a rather hard time setting up multiple stockpiles. Although even after one stockpile you do have some decent results. For example LO Leaf Storm from Venusaur can't even 2HKO this Torterra(42.3% - 49.7%).

Although I'd slash Synthesis over the last slot since having access to reliable recovery (in UU atleast) is a given for this Torterra. You'll also have the ability to get up more boosts depending on the situation.

(A single set does not really need an overview section nor a single counter section. Team Options and Counters should be meshed together when making a skeleton analysis ( I don't even know if this is a skeleton analysis or not!))

Ok thanks. Ya I know it doesn't need it but i figured it would be nice to add one anyways. I can remove it if its an issue.

Hey there! I've been testing this set and have been running some calculations, and this Torterra set is pretty neat. I think what is most impressive is the fact that with proper EV investment and after one Stockpile boost, it turns many would-be OHKO's and 2HKO's into 2HKO's and 3HKO's. I'm currently using a spread of 252 HP / 148 Atk / 108 SpD with a Careful (+SpD, -SpA) nature. After one boost (which was easy to get against things like Registeel, Rhyperior, Donphan, Chansey, Slowbro, and the like), Milotic's Ice Beam has a 3% chance of 2HKO'ing, while Seed Bomb 2HKO's after SR + Leftovers damage. At full health, Moltres' LO Fire Blast has <1% chance of OHKO'ing after just one boost. Stone Edge OHKO's. Here's a list of some pretty notable calculations after one Stockpile boost:


On top of this, what makes Torterra stand out from other (usually more useless or niche) Stockpile users is its 291 Attack stat paired with STAB EQ and Seed Bomb/Wood Hammer. Unlike most Stockpile users, Torterra doesn't just boost up and sit there. Opponents won't take the chance of just switching in any Pokemon against Torterra, as its STABs are what make it so lethal. What has been hard, however, is choosing between Seed Bomb and Wood Hammer. Seed Bomb gets the 2HKO on Milotic after SR without the HP loss, but Seed Bomb cannot score a 2HKO on Slowbro or a OHKO on Offensive Rhyperior. It's a pretty tough choice. To be honest, however, the current set seems a bit messy and places emphasis on moves that it should not. I recommend changing the set to this:

Torterra @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EV's: 252 HP / 148 Atk / 108 SpD
Nature: Careful
Moveset:
- Stockpile
- Earthquake
- Seed Bomb / Wood Hammer
- Stone Edge / Synthesis / Leech Seed

It really needs its Grass STAB to deal with certain threats, and lacking a Grass move on Torterra is pretty bad. Stone Edge should be listed first in the last spot, as it hits Swellow and Moltres for OHKO's whereas you cannot touch them without it. Synthesis is especially handy with Wood Hammer, and is the easiest way to regain health quickly. In my opinion, Leech Seed is somewhat useless unless fighting something like Spiritomb (who will Burn you) or a really, really bulky threat. However, QC should decide whether it deserves to be on the set.

Alternatively, this set can also run a more offensive spread of 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe with an Adamant nature. This allows it to beat anything slower than 201 Spe (Milotic, Jolly Rhyperior, etc) while also using Stockpile to avoid certain OHKO's. Max Attack and Adamant allow you to OHKO Rhyperior with Seed Bomb, as well as a chance to OHKO Milotic and Donphan with Wood Hammer with SR / Spikes support. This spread, however, is far less bulky and cannot take strong hits like Moltres and Swellow nearly as well as the first spread.

I personally believe the biggest counter to this set is Choice Specs Sceptile with HP Ice. It resists your STAB moves, plus OHKO's with HP Ice even after one boost.

Hope this helps, and good luck!

Thanks I do like your Ev spreads. I was having some difficulty finding one i liked but these could be the answer! Also thank you for providing some back up with some calculations. I had some but I didn't post them up yet but I don't have a reason to now. Thanks for the help.

The most commonly used Ice attack is Milotic's Ice Beam (off the top of my head, what else commonly uses Ice?), and I'm impressed that it does a max of 50% after a stockpile, meaning it never 2HKOes with leftovers. After a boost, you survive Arcanine's Flare Blitz barely, but you won't be doing much afterwards.

Also, a spread of 252 HP / 46 Atk / 212 SpDef Adamant gets the same stats as the one Drkslay mentioned but with a few extra SpDef points. Remember, it's almost always best to put the positive nature on the naturally higher stat, and the EV's in the naturally lower one.

Milotic is pretty common which is why it is such a bonus that it can't 2HKO torterra after just one stockpile. Specs Sceptile is the only pokemon who I have found to be hectic and forces the switch. Fire pokemon are still a pretty large threat but after SR damage torterra can OHKO arcanine or if you don't feel like taking the hit you can just switch to a counter to kill it off and bring him back in and restart.

Hmm it apprears there are quite a few ev spreads that could work on this set. This just goes back to the idea of what an individual prefers. I personally found the more bulky set more productive in the long run being able to stay alive a lot longer and still pack a significant punch. After comparing your ev spread to the one Drkslay posted you get +3 SpD and a plus +30 Atk meaning your spread does provide a very slightly bulkier set and a higher attack stat. After doing some testing with it, it has proven to be more useful than Drkslay's. Thank you and Drkslay I am still keeping your offensive minded set as a possible option.

So after a bit more testing with the new ev spread I have found this combo to be the most effective so far:

Nature: Adamant
Item: leftovers
Evs: 252 hp/46 Atk/212 SpD
Moves:
Stockpile
Earthquake
Woodhammer
Synthesis

Obviously due to the lack of stone edge I had to put it on a team that could easily remove threats such as moltres or swellow that stone edge would normally easily remove. Stealth rock has helped out tremendously and so far torterra has been getting anywhere from 1-3 kills per game depending on how soon he is brought out and the number of counters the team has. Now I am aware that at the moment few people aren't expecting this so they aren't prepared for this, but at the same time most common counters to torterra such as milotic or arcanine would normally be able to just come in and remove it have been easily killed by woodhammer and earthquake respectively.

The only annoying part of this set has proven to be with people who know they can't kill it so they just phaze it out. This can be annoying setting up a stockpile or 2 just to have something faster switch in and phaze it out. Other than that this set has been doing pretty good for me so far. Has anyone else been testing it besides me obviously?

This set absolutely needs Roar. The entire point of a stockpile set (see Hippowdon for what I think is the only other example) is to force switches. Leech Seed could possibly do the job, but with so many UU Pokemon immune to leech seed, Synthesis is probably necessary. Basically this set should be spamming roar while you have entry hazards down, not getting defense boosts and then trying to sweep.

I would recommend that you try out something like:
Nature: Careful
Item: leftovers
Evs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 SpD
Moves:
Stockpile
Synthesis
Roar
Earthquake / Wood Hammer

I wouldn't really worry too much about hitting milotic, since the best play when you see it is probably to roar it away anyway (Arcanine is really a much bigger threat, since it has intimidate and commonly holds life orb; hence EQ over WH). Roar will probably let you synthesis, since there aren't a whole lot of things in UU that can hit +1/+1 torterra for much damage. You're really only screwed if you roar into an Arcanine or a Moltres (or a trick or rapid spin or toxic user but oh well).

As far as team members go, you absolutely need something to block rapid spin, and you absolutely need at least Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes down. Earthquake will let you KO grounded poison types, so that's handy.

Honestly I doubt that stockpile torterra is really viable; torterra's recovery is just too limited for it to remain out for long and really do its job, except against a glass cannon team. But hey, you might as well give it a shot.

I agree with TAY's choice of Stockpile Torterra, because it allows for better defenses, which in turn allow Torterra to do its job better. However, I do disagree with what TAY has to say about Stockpile Torterra:

TAY said:

Honestly I doubt that stockpile torterra is really viable; torterra's recovery is just too limited for it to remain out for long and really do its job, except against a glass cannon team. But hey, you might as well give it a shot.

Click to expand...

I actually use my own version of Dual Screen Torterra(which I hope to post on QC one day), which has EVs of 56 HP/200 Def/252 SpD (you can also try that if you like), and a Careful Nature. It also has Synthesis, and I sometimes use it as a tank. The point is, it sometimes takes forever just to kill it. When Torterra has a couple of Stockpiles up, it won't need to use Synthesis that often. I'm just stating my opinion, and I hope I also made some useful comments!

DrkSlay said:

I'm currently using a spread of 252 HP / 148 Atk / 108 SpD with a Careful (+SpD, -SpA) nature.

Click to expand...

I've not read any of the rest of this post, sorry, but just want to point out that a spread of 252 HP, 44 Atk, 212 SpD with Adamant gives you 3 more points in SpD with the same attack stat, since you're using your nature to boost your 109 base attack rather than your 85 base special defense.

Ok sorry I was on vacation for the past week in florida woot =) haha. Anyways, I agree with you Tay on that roar should be used here. I have been testing it and it has survived longer aswell as being able to handle counters easier. I do have to disagree with you on the fact that it isn't as good as I think it is. This thing has done much better than first expected and after more and more testing this thing just has been getting the job done. Obviously its usefulness depends on the team around it aswell, but all pokemon have the same issue when figuring out how good they actually are. I will say that the pleasure of it being a "suprise" to most people helps out a lot, but still after looking at calculations this thing is a much better tank than it is given the credit for. Also, I am redoing the information up top to revolve around using roar because as I said before it has been a definate plus.

Has anyone else tested this besides me obviously?

I haven't bothered trying to make my Torterra Specially Defensive, since I only play Wi-Fi and I have Tentacruel to act as a partner to take the Fire/Ice Special Attacks.

My EV spred has been (252 HP/212 Defense/44 Speed) Impish with the moveset:
Leech Seed
Stockpile
Rest
Earthquake

Most effective against other defensive or tank pokemon.

You should definitely mention the fact that every one of Torterra's weaknesses is a Rock-weak type. This is a pretty big reason to use Torterra over another pHazer, as especially with prediction, you will be racking up entry hazard damage on pretty much anything that can hit Torterra with a STAB super effective move. Emphasize that entry hazard layers aren't just "good" teammates - they're absolutely necessary. This set definitely belongs on a stallish or balanced spike-stacking team.

Also, it might be worth mentioning that if your enemy has a paralysis move that isn't Thunder Wave, getting this Torterra Paralyzed would be very beneficial for the status "immunity".

This thing has a ton of potential but is kind of neutered by the fact that it can only run 1 attack and you lure in things that can beat you pretty easily even if you have a stockpike under your belt. The support you need to get up and maintain over the course of an entire battle just to help this thing be "okay" is just ridiculous. I'm not a fan.

Jabba I get what your saying on how running one attack kind of hurts it, but at the same time it doesn't really need more than earthquake. This is set enables it to be an efficient phazer that is at the same time a tank. Once you have up a stockpile or two predicition becomes the easiest thing in the world. By using roar you can keep out all counters by using it on the switch and at the same time you will be building up sr/spikes/toxic spikes damage on the enemy team. By lowering a majority of your opponents pokemon to around half or 3/4 of their hp will make sweeping them easier, and will limit the turns of all their potential life orb abusers. Also, if you really want to run 2 attacks you can switch out synthesis and run something with wish or take out roar but by removing either of these moves will remove the abilities this set brings to the table greatly.

Can I get some QC input on this set please?

Jabba didn't seem to like it, and personally, neither do I. Defense raiser sets are usually too gimmicky and unreliable to be worth a set. I can see the appeal of it, but if I wanted Torterra as a phazer, I would use the one that's onsite (or soon to be onsite).

Edit: The post above was watershogon's last activity ever on Smogon, so if this does pass QC, this will require another author.

yeah, QC REJECTED 1/2

very sturdy in concept, but it just doesn't have a clear purpose. it tries to be a wall and sort a lure at once, when it really can't accomplish both. and what jabba said, it just needs to much support to function well.

Echoing other QC members' feelings. This seems to be the kind of thing that just sits there, is eventually walled by Moltres, Altaria and so on and hangs around until some status effect or Synthesis' low PP takes its toll. Can work against teams that are weak to Torterra (without Stone Edge), but mostly Stockpile will be good for nothing and you'll wish you had another move like the Support set does.

QC REJECTED 2/2

Alright, 'tis done. Moving.