|Aug 8th, 2010, 5:50:16 PM||#1|
Join Date: Aug 2010
Team Resistant (First RMT)
Basically the idea here is to design a team that lets the opponent lose some of the major advantages that they get out of entry hazards. I wanted a team that was centered around having as few weaknesses as possible making it easy to switch in and out when I want to, but hard for the opponent to force switches. This team will be centered around a potential late game sweep with solid bulk to back it up in the early game.
Decision Making Process
Ok, so to start things off I needed to have Spiritomb and Blissey because of their great synergy (at least with the sets I run on them).
Now that I'd created the core of the team, I needed a lead pokemon. The main thing I needed to get at the beginning of a match was coverage of most common leads, and the ability to potentially be useful later game. For those two reasons, I chose Machamp.
After that, I needed to decide on another bulky pokemon to round out the hard edges before the end game sweep. I also decided that I'd benefit from having more entry hazard damage, and the ability to remove my opponents entry hazards, however little damage they might cause. Going with the idea of few weaknesses, I chose Forretress.
Now I needed to find two end game sweepers. Needing to be easy to switch in on a moments notice, I decided on my favorite mono electric sweeper - Raikou. Unlike his bigger brother Suicune, Raikou is more of a dedicated sweeper than a bulky sweeper meaning that the opponent will have an immediate threat on their hands when he switches in.
For the final sweeper I needed something that could take down the special walls that Raikou couldn't handle, and have an easy time switching in. I decided that this sweeper should be as synergetic with Raikou as possible. What better typing for this than Water/Dragon? Yep, that's right, I'm talking about kingdra.
A little side note about the names -- they're all villains from the Anime/Manga Soul Eater.
Giriko (Machamp) @ Sitrus Berry
EVs: 240 HP/248 Atk/16 SDef/4 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Ice Punch
This is the Attacking Lead Machamp set with the addition of Sitrus Berry over Lum Berry because it allows me to KO Jirachi and Metagross. Most status users already think they know that machamp is holding Lum Berry and switch out. If they do end up status-ing machamp, I switch and eventually cleric it away with Blissey.
Jirachi, Metagross, Azelf, Aerodactyl, Gliscor, Dragonite, Swampert, Hippowdon, Bronzong
Roserade, Smeargle, and Breloom
Mizune (Snorlax) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 244 HP/28 Def/236 SDef
Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Body Slam
- Sleep Talk
Her role is to soak up special hits and come roaring back with amazing physical hitpower. Most special attackers aren't suited for physical hits, which makes this easily one of the most deadly mismatch-based pokemon out there. The Resttalk variant gives me a sleep absorber, and body slam dishes out the paralysis (which is useful). Overall, he's able to handle all of the special attackers the meta is able to serve up, but can't really threaten very many of them(ok, it is more threatening than a blissey). His fire and ice type resistances also allow him to wall special attackers such as heatran and special infernape variants much more effectively. Ice is useful for being even more of a threat to blissey than he already is.
Mabaa (Spiritomb) @ Leftovers
EVs: 248 HP/128 Def/132 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
Ah, my spiritomb. Being a great spin-blocker isn't the only thing spiritomb does. He also provides sleep support which gains huge amounts of tempo, and Pain Split assuring he stays alive long enough to sleep the next guy he needs to eliminate. His two attacking moves and defensive EVs allow him to have the huge list of checks (below) he provides and his HP EVs aren't on a SR #.
OU/BL Pokemon that are OHKO'd by Spiritomb:
Gengar (easy, this set was pretty much made with this guy in mind)
Frosslass (a really good pokemon to hypnotize considering you have 2 shots at getting it off with Ice Beam only doing ~45% damage)
Azelf (Poses no threat to spiritomb simply by the fact that he eliminates so much of her movepool and fires back with a OHKO move. Even the special attack flamethrower does <50%)
OU/BL Pokemon that are 2HKO'd by Spiritomb
Gallade (Takes you down to ~50% after Swords Dance, note that this set survives 2 Dances and SR Damage, meaning that you can switch in on the first dance and still have a guaranteed 2HKO albeit with a very small chance of survival past that)
Rotoms (For the sake of simplicity, this only deals with -F. Spiritomb switches in to take the trick if you get lucky enough. However, watch out for his other moves as choice specs overheat 2HKO's you just barely)
Dusknoir (WoW doesn't affect you, and Earthquake barely scratches you)
Celebi (If Celebi seeds you turn 1, you can't kill her with spiritomb barring hypnosis->switch, other than that there's nothing to fear)
Bronzong (One of the few pokemon Spiritomb outspeeds. He really can't do much of anything to you including explode one of your other pokes)
Breloom (Make sure you don't get spored so it's unexpected when you switch in on the punch. Past that, seed bomb will do ~40% Damage, and breloom always moves first meaning you will want to shadow ball the sub, pain split if you were at full health hypnosis if not, and go for the KO)
Infernape (Spiritomb generally scares away infernapes)
Mamoswine (You can switch in on Ice Fang/Shard, but Stone Edge does ~50% and Earthquake ~75, so if you don't have a sleep left or there are pokes more worthwhile for the 'tomb to counter it's best to not depend too heavily on him. Of course, superpower constitutes a free switch)
Yanmega (poses absolutely no threat whatsoever, feel free to heal up against full health leadmega as he only does ~15% damage before lefties)
Tyranitar (HP Fighting) (Even locked into stone edge, T-tar is leaving Spiritomb with 13% HP assuming you don't have a sleep left)
Ambipom (HP Fighting) (Walled in huge ways)
Free (Raikou) @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/4 HP
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Grass]
LO Raikou is designed to sweep after as little as a single CM. HP Grass was chosen over HP Fighting because Machamp & Spiritomb kill t-tar. Depending on what they have left I'll either send in raikou or kingdra. I have to watch out for Celebi either way.
White Star (Kindra) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 SpD
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
EDIT: Just realized that I didn't write a description section for him.
Kingdra serves the overall purpose of the team quite well. Since switches are punished after layered T-spikes and SR are up, setting up is just that much easier. I personally like to substitute while they switch (or try and damage me) which kicks in lefties, then DD once or twice followed by the appropriate sequence of moves to sweep their team. If they end up revealing a celebi which I didn't see before I don't go to the usual plan of Raikou (that would be just stupid) instead, I normally go to Spiritomb for the kill (assuming Celebi is poisoned with leach seed) or try and blow her up with Forretress.
Marlon (Forretress) @ Shed Shell
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Light Screen
- Pain Split
The choice of Toxic Spikes over Spikes was easy. My team didn't take advantage of any status besides sleep, and not running any ground type moves is justification for toxic spikes not hitting certain pokemon. Rapid Spin allows the team to overcome its gigantic weakness to stealth rocks. Gyro Ball is useful because it allows me to kill alot of the speedy counters that may switch in on Forretress. Not sure if Scizor would be better in this slot, but I'm going with Forretress because of Toxic Spikes giving me status support.
Yeah, please rate!
Last edited by reeebok; Aug 20th, 2010 at 3:27:23 AM.
|Aug 8th, 2010, 5:50:46 PM||#2|
Join Date: Aug 2010
Things I'm considering trying:
T-bolt in the place of Ice-Beam on blissey. (This worked spectacularly! Blissey is much better at killing most anything with the notable exclusion of Zapdos & Dragon-Types)
T-spikes Tentacruel/Roserade in the place of Forretress. (Did not work, their typing made me much too vulnerable to Dragon & Ground w/ Tentacruel, not because it was adding weaknesses but because I lost resistances from Forretress. Roserade worked slightly better, however it didn't quite have the survivability to set up T-spikes reliably on this team)
Chesto-Rest Kingdra due to how little use substitute is on the current set. It also allows me to take better advantage of kingdra's defensive stats. Hopefully. (Kingdra ended up getting set up on by other, more powerful sweepers & or getting revenge killed by Flygon. Overall, it's a VERY over-hyped set)
CB Snorlax vs. Cleric Blissey due to how little blissey is currently doing for the team, CB snorlax can do WAY more damage than blissey, but makes it just that much harder to fight special threats. Will it succeed? (CB 'lax ended up not being as good as sleep talk 'lax)
Stealth Rock being the only entry hazard, and being put on forretress. This makes our team much more resistant to set up sweeps like those of DD 'nite and Flygon. It also makes hypnosis a better move. (The second point is in the end why this choice made it on to the team)
Optimizing machamp's ev's to take full advantage of his berry. This means that I'm looking to sacrifice a bit of survivability to achieve greater offensive power. I'm willing to:
sacrifice overall dominance for more stable avg chance of beating the opponent's lead (hoping to cover more leads this way)
move to an above average chance to not be 1hkod by azelf's psychic,
hopefully get my berry to kick in vs opposing machamps so that I can switch out and lose the confusion (which they don't have thanks to lum berry)
optimize my mu vs. jirachi and metagross because all I need is >avg chance of beating them
I'll start kicking my laddering into gear(I don't play as much as I should, because I find a lot of my fun comes from theorymoning)
DD 'nite - Can be a major threat if blissey is below 84% & Spiritomb has already hypnotized someone & Forretress is dead & I lose the coin flip with Machamp
Scarfgon - Much worse of a threat than 'nite, however still is able to be hypnotized, Forretress can still blow up on it and blissey still can kill it 1 shot. Unlike DD 'nite, blissey is a serious option for countering scarfgon.
Dusknoir - Can be a problem since it's a spin-blocker, and a common switch in when people see machamp. Pain Split hurts blissey a lot, and it has WoW to hurt kingdra. Most status-support builds can be set up on by forretress, but once you're set up all you can really do is gyro ball :(. I've found that if I switch in kingdra on shadow sneak or pain split, I don't really have a problem getting him out of the way. Same goes for Raikou, but make sure to scout for EQ! If you've gotten him to low health, don't switch in blissey!
Last edited by reeebok; Aug 20th, 2010 at 3:13:12 AM.
|Aug 8th, 2010, 9:37:15 PM||#3|
Join Date: Apr 2009
Hi I got your PM.
Well I have to say I don't realy get your team goal since you will be switching a lot anyway but thats just me. Sorry!
Also I don't want to sound mean but I feel like you threw a bunch of pokemon together since you are vulnerable to threats like scarf Flygon or DD Dragonite.
Anyway in regards to the team I don't like what Forretress is doing. Personally if you are just runing Toxic Spikes then I think that Roserade is a much better choice over even Tentacruel is an option. So you either run Spikes or heck even SR on Forretress or swap it for something else.
Also I am not sure about Blissey on the team since it just seems shoved in here to check special threats.
Have a Nice Day!
|Aug 8th, 2010, 9:56:59 PM||#4|
Join Date: Jun 2010
Alrite, for starters I've got an issue with Blissey, SR and Ice Beam don't seem to belong, especially since Heatran shrugs off the damage from Ice Beam.
Now, Forretress also seems to be doing next to nothing, so swap them both out for Tentacruel and Skarmory.
Tentacruel is, IMO, a much better special wall/tank than Blissey. Forretress is also lacking a purpose, and Skarmory can fill his shoes, since Rapid Spin would now be Tentacruel's job. Also, as mentioned above, Scarf-Gon rips through most of this team, and Skarmory can wall that thing like no tomorrow, unless it's packing Fire Blast.
Attacking Lead Machamp is okay.
Raikou and Kingdra are potent threats, and are good.
Good luck with the team, I'm sure someone else on this site can help from here.
Btw, the set for Tentacruel is Toxic Spiker and Skarmory is Spiker (With SR over Spikes).
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|Aug 8th, 2010, 10:46:42 PM||#5|
Join Date: Jul 2010
First off, if this team is focused on opening up a Raikou or Kingdra sweep, you would benefit greatly from having a dedicated wallbreaker. Blissey doesn't care one bit about anything Raikou does, so it absolutely has to be out of the way before you try to sweep with Raikou. Kingdra doesn't like walls like Skarmory, Swampert, or Suicune, so you'll want to get rid of them as well. I'd recommend a Mixed Dragonite as your wallbreaker. It breaks down Skarmory with Flamethrower, Blissey with Superpower, and Suicune with Draco Meteor. It also helps scout for Kingdra's counters. Use this set:
Dragonite (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 116 Atk/200 Spd/192 SAtk
Rash nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
Also, Kingdra and Dragonite both really appreciate Magnezone support, so using the Steel Killer set clears the way for both of them. If you want to focus on resistances, Magnezone and Dragonite together resist all 17 types.
Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 36 HP/220 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Magnet Rise
Also, your team doesn't really take advantage of multiple entry hazards, as you lack a phazer or anything that forces a whole lot of switches. I'd recommend replacing Forretress with the lead Metagross set so you still have Stealth Rock, while replacing Blissey and Spiritomb with Magnezone and Dragonite. Here's the lead Metagross set:
Metagross @ Occa Berry / Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP/232 Atk/28 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Explosion / Bullet Punch
I'm currently writing a Guide to BW OU Offense. All input is appreciated (I'm definitely working on this now).
Feel free to view my UU team: 100 Million Volts (Peaked #2 on the Smogon UU Ladder) .
I'm willing to rate teams in the following tiers: BW OU, BW UU, and DPP OU. Just drop me a PM/VM.
|Aug 8th, 2010, 11:16:09 PM||#6|
Join Date: Aug 2010
Starting with my team goal. I meant for this to be a team that wasn't easily forced to switch. Basically, the main benefit of having pokes with few or no weaknesses whatsoever.
On to the threats you've mentioned.
DD Dragonite takes 25% damage every time it switches in and has 400% weakness to Ice and Dragon. The main problem my team would have with DD 'nite is that Blissey, the main user of Ice-type attacks would most likely die to it, not to mention kindra would die to a dragon-type attack. My answer to it would most likely be hypnosis, but relying on that as an answer to every pokemon is obviously a stupid move. Forretress blowing up on Dragonite looks good on paper but has the same issues as hypnosis. Machamp vs. Dragonite is kind of weird because if Dragonite immediately Outrages then machamp will die on outrage's second turn should he stay in. If Machamp SD's then outrages there's a 50/50 chance of me killing him or him killing me assuming no prior damage, however in the case of prior damage he out-speeds me. If machamp doesn't run Outrage and SD's I am guaranteed the KO. It's pretty much a game of luck, admittedly not in my favor. If dragonite is in the teens as far as percent health goes bullet punch will kill him. Dragonite's hardest problem against this team is finding a place to switch in. He falls victim to the goal of this team which is avoiding being forced to switch. If he comes in on even blissey, she 2HKO's him guaranteed even if he outrages immediately.
Now for the annoying dragonfly, flygon. Choice Scarf Flygon is a real pain. He causes Forretress to switch out if he switches into it, and he does substantial damage to most of my team. However, if Blissey is at high enough health I can switch her in and potentially wall flygon as all of his attacks do <45% to her. I just have to be at ~90% to pull it off. The other option is to call his bluff (in the case that he switches in on forretress and finish up doing what forretress was there to do originally. That way he either locks himself in to Fire Blast and gets set up on by Kingdra, or Forretress sets up on him, neither of which is a very exciting prospect for my opponent. If Forretress dies to Flygon, machamp gets the revenge kill. Although forretress isn't the only pokemon I have to deal with Flygon switching in on, the others are a lot easier to handle.
Machamp - Use Ice Punch if at >61%, otherwise either hope he doesn't outrage, and use Ice Punch anyways, or switch into Forretress to Explode, Blissey to kill or Spiritomb to sleep.
Blissey - Kill him with Ice Punch! If at low health, switch into Forretress or Spiritomb.
Spiritomb - Sleep him, or if at <46% switch into forretress or blissey.
Kingdra - Switching into kingdra isn't a good idea till you've scouted his team sufficiently, but that does mean he has a reasonable probability of outraging or u-turning both of which are resisted by Forretress.
Raikou - Same as kingdra except replace Dragon with ground. Your best bet is to switch to blissey, spiritomb, or forretress.
So yeah, don't really get why those would be a problem unless my trifecta of awesome defense suddenly all became seriously injured.
Ok, your last two points (ginganinja) are very legitimate as well.
Blissey wasn't really "shoved on" so much as put on along with spiritomb because she attracts fighting moves & physical attacks which spiritomb walls beautifully. I can understand why you might think SR is a waste of a move slot, but I believe that it's rather underrated on Blissey. Her other options in that slot just don't seem to be as synergetic with the rest of the team. They are:
- Wish & Protect (What members of my team would benefit from this? Forretress is meant to blow up when it gets low on health, my sweepers are meant to clean up late game, and machamp is an anti lead meant to only really provide a check against other leads)
- Status Move (Toxic is acheivable by T-spikes using much less tempo, Paralysis seems decent but it's highly hax based)
- Another Attack (Bolt-beam gives greater coverage but I want blissey to support the team, not dedicating more than one move to attacking. The other two options are really sub-par)
Now for Forretress, what exactly is it you dislike about T-spikes? How would Roserade take hits better than a Forretress? I mean isn't he designed specifically with laying entry hazards in mind. Tentacruel looks better than Roserade for my team, and as such I'll try it out.
Ok, so heatran shrugs off Ice Beam. That means my other option is T-bolt in terms of damaging him. This weakens me further to the aformentioned dragon types, but seems reasonable enough so I'll try it.
I don't see why or how forretress is doing next to nothing. If he did next to nothing, would he be OU?
I doubt Tentacruel is a better special wall than blissey, but I'll run with it. Wouldn't Forretress have an equally easy time walling scarfgon as Skarmony? I understand he might have a harder time damaging say, DD 'nite, but Scarfgon's high speed should cause it to impale itself on a gyro ball.
I'll add what I'm considering in the threats list and update it with the mentioned threats.
Your proposed changes are:
+ Dragonite (Wallbreaker)
+ Magnezone (Resistances + Revenge killer)
+ Lead Metagross
- Blissey & Spiritomb
Yeah, that's not happening. I understand that Raikou & Kindra have their respective walls, but really that's a lot of what having a physical & special sweeper gets me. Blissey comes in on Raikou, I switch to Machamp or Kingdra. Blissey either potentially eats a physical STAB, switches, or gets set up on. If they bring out their physical wall, then I've just forced entry hazard damage on it and also (most probably) toxic'd it.
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