Rotom-A (SubSplit)

So i was looking for a sub split set for rotom-H and i couldn't find one in the process of being put on site, so i made one. I don't know how i should have put the title since i didn't want anyone to mistake it for regular rotom.


http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/rotom-w

[SET]
name: Defensive SubSplit
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Pain Split
move 4: Will-o-Wisp
item: leftovers
nature: timid
evs:252 HP /6 Def / 252 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site:
-With rotom's speed and bulk finding a time to substitute is very easy
-Discourages blissey from staying in.
-Eases prediction on Scarf Tyranitar switch-ins
-Is not outclassed by Gengar because of will-o-wisp making beating blissey alot easier and rotom's bulk.
-Great spin blocker on stall teams
-After there tyranitar is gone stall teams will have a difficult time beating this set.
-No current sets like this on site

Additional Comments:
-The ev's allow rotom to out-speed Adamant Lucario,Jolly Gyarados and Jolly mamoswine.
-Toxic can be used to beat certain threats 1 on 1 such as blissey and celebi
-Toxic spikes interfere with will o wisp and is not advised to be run together.


Teammates and Counters:
-Works well on stall teams and offensive teams. Machamp is a great switch-in to any tyranitar set that gives this problems.
-Jolteon resist your main move and can sub completely walling this set, this makes a blissey or snorlax of your own excellent partners.
-Calm minders that like burned pokemon work well with this set such as Calm mind jirachi.
-Calm mind jirachi walks over this set.

[SET]
name: Offensive SubSplit
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Pain Split
item: Life Orb
nature: timid
evs:16 HP/ 242 SpA / 252 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on site:

-A slower bulkier gengar
-Electric, Ghost gives good typing and plenty of chances to come in
-16 HP never give 0 ev Blissey the chance to break your sub with ice beam
-The ev's allow you to 2hko Heatran
-Allows you to stall out blissey
-Substitute blocks status while rotom's low hp allows it to recover most of its health safely.

Additional Comments:
-Toxic spikes are an commodity to this set allow you to beat non clerical celebi and blissey.

No this wasn't rejected before, but I really don't see how this set is any better than Gengar's Sub + Pain Split set. Especially considering that Rotom still has plenty of checks when it's behind a sub, Tyranitar and Gay-, I mean Shaymin as solid examples; and the fact that you don't have Shadow Ball as the primary option in the 4th slot makes this set incredibly easy to play around.

-Is not outclassed by Gengar because of toxic making beating blissey alot easier and rotom bulk.

Click to expand...

Gengar has a base 110 Speed to set up Subs from, Focus Blast, and oh, it gets STAB Toxic too if you wanna go there. Also, Pain Split on its own can outstall Blissey, so I don't see how Gengar doesn't have an easy time beating it.

-No current sets like this on site

Click to expand...

"Defensive Substitute"

-Great spin blocker on stall teams

Click to expand...

ResTalk is a great spinblocker for stall teams, but it doesn't get butchered by Starmie, and can afford to switch directly into Blissey. Rotom-A in general is useful at abusing entry hazards, this set is just slightly more annoying to deal with.

Pain Split deserves a mention in AC for the Defensive Substitute set (erm, when the Rotom-A analysises are finally condensed into one), but imo that's where it should stay.

@ OP there is alread a set on site: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/rotom-c#Defensive_Substitute

Gengar has a base 110 Speed to set up Subs from, Focus Blast, and oh, it gets STAB Toxic too if you wanna go there. Also, Pain Split on its own can outstall Blissey, so I don't see how Gengar doesn't have an easy time beating it.

Click to expand...

Toxic is a status move, and recieve's no stab.

Ive pp stalled gengar before just by using stealth rock pp and softboiled. once focus blast misses 4/8 times i can beat it in a stall war.With toxic i don't need one of the worst accurate moves in the tier.Rotom bulk and typing is nifty too because now i have more things to switch in on instead of gengar risking its life swithing in. . If you want to run special def ev's for a spin block then fine as i said in the opening post.Its a fun set to use.

@alan that set plays alot different than this one.

With toxic i don't need one of the worst accurate moves in the tier.Rotom bulk and typing is nifty too because now i have more things to switch in on instead of gengar risking its life swithing in.

Click to expand...

Gengar packs a shitload of immunities and quite a few resistances, so switching it in shouldn't really be that difficult of a task. The extra bulk doesn't really make much of a difference once you consider that amount of Pokemon that can easily break Rotom's subs. I mean, switching into Metagross reliably is great, but if you can't hurt it at all, what's the point? The only difference would really be when pitted against Flamethrower / Ice Beam Blissey.

Alan said:

Toxic is a status move, and recieve's no stab.

Click to expand...

Obviously jokes don't have value anymore

Come on, I even italicized it .-.

Chillarmy said:

Gengar packs a shitload of immunities and quite a few resistances, so switching it in shouldn't really be that difficult of a task. The extra bulk doesn't really make much of a difference once you consider that amount of Pokemon that can easily break Rotom's subs. The only difference would really be when pitted against Flamethrower / Ice Beam Blissey



Obviously jokes don't have value anymore

Come on, I even italicized it .-.

Click to expand...

gengars subs are so fragile man, splash is a 2hko. Those resitant moves will probably 2-3hko gengar anyways.come on folks you got to play you can't mass theorymon without testing it.Rotom is ALOT bulkier and has better resistances than gengar even on tuesdays.if there breaking the subs im poisoning/tbolt then pain split repeat or switch.

Curtains said:

@alan that set plays alot different than this one.

Click to expand...

what the hell are you fucking talking about??????? its the same freaking set. How does it play differently when its the SAME exact thing??????? The only difference is your set has slashitis and the set on site only lists necessary shit. I'm almost convinced this a troll to be honest.


edit: oh wait its not he same set, your has less survivability

Curtains said:

gengars subs are so fragile man, splash is a 2hko. Those resitant moves will probably 2-3hko gengar anyways.

Click to expand...

An example of common Bug, Grass, and for that matter Poison attacks that Gengar's subs can't take, but Rotom's can would be nice. Oh and Gengar can stall out Tinkerbell's Leaf Storms, Rotom can't.

Rotom is ALOT bulkier and has better resistances than gengar even on tuesdays.

Click to expand...

Which comes into play... when? Switching Rotom in is much easier granted, but at that point, why wouldn't the standard Rotom-A, or Defensive Substitute be a better choice?

if there breaking the subs im poisoning/tbolt then pain split repeat or switch.

Click to expand...

How is either option better than 2HKOing or OHKOing whatever breaks your sub with Shadow Ball or Focus Blast?

rotom serves it uses as sub pain split and isnt outclassed by gengar or vice versa. they both have their uses, a sub pain split is a good idea to suggest but i dont quite agree with your evs and moveset, not even mentioning will o wisp is pretty well...fail

I talked this over with Setsuna, this is a brief summary of what we came up with:

There are two possible EV spreads for this:
max s.atk / speed or 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe. The last spread will outpace adamant lucario, jolly gyarados and jolly mamoswine.

The last slot should be willowisp/Hydro Pump.

The Special Attack / Speed spread should be emphasised with the bulkier spread discussed in AC. The purpose of this is largely for checking heatran and suicune (these are the main two) more effectively, whereas the bulkier spread can deal with threats such as metagross and gyarados after a dragon dance more effectively. The differences and advantages to both spreads should be mentioned.

Hydro Pump should be the primary option for the offensive spread whereas willowisp is recommended as the primary option if the bulkier spread is utilised.

The 40 defence EVs on the bulkier version allow a high chance to survive consecutive pursuits from Choice Scarfed Tyranitar. However it's worth mentioning in the AC that these EVs can be allocated to special attack if a little extra power is desired.

Confirming that these are the conclusions panamaxis and I drew. My approval is pending on these changes as well.

Ok i updated the OP. I don't know what you wanted to do with toxic but i just slashed it with will-o-wisp.

It's Hydro Pump, not Toxic.... And please change the link in the OP to the proper forme of Rotom.

oh so were doing rotom w? ok cool

i used this rotom in the past. i usually found thunder-wave to be a good option in the last slot. usually pokes that switch into it are pokes faster than it trying to break the sub, revenge kill it. maybe it could be slashed?

I think thunder wave isnt bad but health draining moves are more beneficial like toxic and will o against common slow rotom counters (lax , bliss , curse/band tar , shaymin can rest it off. So it would'nt be doing much.Besides hitting heatran.But we have hydro pump.Lets see what the qc staff think.

Wouldn't it be in your best interest to minimize the HP evs so you could more effectively drain Blissey of its hit points?

It really would'nt make a difference and there is a far less bulky max speed / satk spread.

You pretty much have to run max speed on this rotom...

You need to hit 296 speed to outspeed offensive suicune, which you really never want to be slower than. From there it's only 2 points and you might as well max for typing scarf rotoms who have tricked.

Sounds reasonable but we some people might like the bulk, which is much better imo, but it depends on the team.

Im bumping this up.

No scofield is right, its only 40 defense evs its not going to make a huge impact defensively but it does speedwise. Tying max speed Rotom-A and outspeeding offensive Cune is far too important for some minimal Defensive Bulk

Megan_Fox said:

No scofield is right, its only 40 defense evs its not going to make a huge impact defensively but it does speedwise. Tying max speed Rotom-A and outspeeding offensive Cune is far too important for some minimal Defensive Bulk

Click to expand...

This is a really unreliable check to offensive Suicune, as it loses to both Life Orb and Leftovers versions almost all of the time (assuming it switches in on CM). Bulky leftovers versions easily survive two Thunderbolts, while LO versions can eat a Thunderbolt and OHKO with +1 Hydro Pump. Losing your spin-blocker is not worth it if your motive is to wear down a sweeper.

As for tying with Max Speed Rotom-A, it's a shame that you can't do anything to it. If Shadow Ball was slashed somewhere, maybe it would be a good idea, but otherwise, it's futile.

im not saying its a check, but its being able to hit it is still invaluable. ive gone through many situations where i used rotom to finish off a weakened suicune. as for rotom, well if i were to use this set i would use wash form with Hydro Pump so atleast i would be able to hit opposing rotoms for neutral damage. anyways, its not like your giving up much to run max speed

Megan_Fox said:

im not saying its a check, but its being able to hit it is still invaluable. ive gone through many situations where i used rotom to finish off a weakened suicune. as for rotom, well if i were to use this set i would use wash form with Hydro Pump so atleast i would be able to hit opposing rotoms for neutral damage. anyways, its not like your giving up much to run max speed

Click to expand...

Well, you are giving up a little bulk, and you have a higher chance of surviving two Pursuits from Choice Scarf Tyranitar if you use 40 EVs. This may be more important than really technical scenarios in which you may need to finish off weakened Suicune or opposing Rotom.