Lucario (Choice Scarf)

Status: QC Approved (3/3) - panamaxis ; Setsuna ; Seven Deadly Sins

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/lucario

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: ThunderPunch
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Crunch
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on site:

- It is very effective at revenge killing OUs top treats that use boosting moves - Lucario,
Tyranitar, Dragonite, Gyarados, Kingdra, Scizor etcetera...
- Outspeeds every Pokémon without a Choice Scarf on OU, except Ninjask.
- Unlike many users of Choice Scarf, Lucario 4x resists Stealth Rock and Pursuit.
- No similar set on site.
- Has pretty good resistances and typing, unlike other users of Choice Scarf.
- It is not outclassed by Jirachi because of STAB Close Combat.
- Possible late game sweep against weakened teams with proper Stealth Rock / Spikes
support.
- A good way to use Lucario in a new way.

Additional comments:

- A Jolly nature is a must to beat Jolly Gyarados and Dragonite, as well as beating Jolteon.
- It makes a good lure to Gliscor, which makes Tyranitar a good partner.
- Teammates able to use phazing move are specially useful to scout for Magnezone.
- This set is easier to wall, although it is not its job to sweep anyway!

Teammates and Counters:

- Tyranitar appreciates having Gliscor removed, and can set up on Choiced Rotom-A, as well as having a resistance to Fire.
- Gengar can set up Substitute on defensive Pokémon like Gliscor and Hippowdon.
- Shed Shell Skarmory has an immunity to Ground type moves, and is able to scout for Magnezone, which makes the Lucario user more cautious when choosing its move.
- Dragonite makes an excellent partner synergy-wise, being able to come on Ground, Fire and Fighting attacks, while Lucario can come in on most Ice and Rock attacks.


- Hippowdon walls this set all day long
- A defensively EVd Suicune can take on this pretty easily.
- Most of them will be reluctant to switch-in, but Magnezone can trap and kill Lucario.
- Heatran is able to switch-in on 3/4 of the moveset, so he deserves a mention.
- Most bulky waters, defensive Grass Types and Ground Pokemon usually fare well against Choice Scarf Lucario.

I guess I don't see what you're revenge killing with this that you couldn't hit with ExtremeSpeed or Vacuum Wave on other Choiced Lucario. Losing to Scarf Flygon instead of tying is also a minus...

Like, who can Lucario effectively revenge kill with this set that it can't with others? Choice locked Tyranitar comes to mind but any Lucario makes Tyranitar its bitch.

That's like saying, 'Use Scarf Infernape? Why? It has Mach Punch to revenge stuff!'

LO Luke's ES doesn't do enough damage to stuff like Dragonite and Kingdra. It's not fast enough to clean up late-on without a Swords Dance.

Chris is Me said:

I guess I don't see what you're revenge killing with this that you couldn't hit with ExtremeSpeed or Vacuum Wave on other Choiced Lucario. Losing to Scarf Flygon instead of tying is also a minus...

Like, who can Lucario effectively revenge kill with this set that it can't with others? Choice locked Tyranitar comes to mind but any Lucario makes Tyranitar its bitch.

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Well, Dragonite and Gyarados can survive a Choice Band Extremspeed and retaliate with their boosted moves; tying with a Pokémon that can outright OHKO is too risky in my opinion, I would just avoid the match-up even with Jirachi or my own Flygon.

Like I said in the OP, Lucario can revenge kill stat-booster Pokémon like Dragonite, Kingdra, Tyranitar, Gyarados and opposing Lucario; Choice Specs or Choice Band Lucario cannot beat this treats at all. For example: I guess Choice Specs Lucario can take out Tyranitar and Lucario, but you are now unable to take down Dragonite, Gyarados among others, and vice-versa with a Choice Band and Extremespeed.

Ice-eyes said:

That's like saying, 'Use Scarf Infernape? Why? It has Mach Punch to revenge stuff!'

LO Luke's ES doesn't do enough damage to stuff like Dragonite and Kingdra. It's not fast enough to clean up late-on without a Swords Dance.

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Exactly!

I don't see how this makes a good lure to Gliscor. While conceivably, you could predict and hit Gliscor on the switch, any Lucario can already do that. Additionally, most opponents will be suspicious when you send Lucario out against their Gliscor.

In light of this, I don't see how Tyranitar is a good partner, as they already share many weaknesses.

Phantom_IV said:

I don't see how this makes a good lure to Gliscor. While conceivably, you could predict and hit Gliscor on the switch, any Lucario can already do that. Additionally, most opponents will be suspicious when you send Lucario out against their Gliscor.

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Do not get me wrong, I did not mean that you will switch-in on predicted Taunt or Roost; what I meant is that you can double switch when you predict a switch from Gliscor, they will not switch out because Gliscor beats every common set. Also, luring Gliscor is not the point of the set, it is to revenge kill boosted treats; beating Gliscor one-on-one is an "extra".

yea this is a good set, it has great surprise value and even when that value is gone the set still works. analysis worthy imo

This set looks really cool tbh. Revenges a lot of shit. It has more power of Jirachi which is pretty cool and Magnezone has a much tougher time trapping it because its weak to Lukes STAB. It also revenges things like Rotom and Heatran way easier which is a huge plus.

This seams neat, but AFAIK the only Pokemon this beats that Choice Scarf Jirachi doesn't are Heatran, Aggron, Starmie (Jirachi can still revenge weakened versions w/ ThunderPunch or FlinchHax), and some Rotom. Jirachi also has access to awesome moves like Trick and U-Turn. Not to mention, Jirachi has superior bulk and is able to effectively use an Adamant nature, since it would still be able to outspeed threats like Dragon Dance Dragonite and Gyarados.

It's a real shame that this can't reliably counter Boosting Infernapes, as they often have priority.

You can't forget the fact that Steel is just a shitty STAB to abuse... Fighting is a great STAB and only resisted by Flying (Zapdos), Poison, Ghost, and Psychic. Psychic Types get beat and poison types are lol. This also revenges Kingdra much easier as well as just dealing more consistent damage than jirachi.

Hazard durability is definitely a plus. After all, immunity to sand and resistance to SR is part of Scarf-rachi/flygon's appeal, no? Though flygon also has spikes and t-wave to brag about, Lucario is definitely better at switching in than most. That's pretty important to scarf users imo, and pursuit resistance is always welcome too.

Flygon's STAB EQ can end games in late game, though sometimes lacks the power to finish off the enemy team. Luke might be losing in speed, but STAB CC is definitely nice.

Towelie said:

You can't forget the fact that Steel is just a shitty STAB to abuse... Fighting is a great STAB and only resisted by Flying (Zapdos), Poison, Ghost, and Psychic. Psychic Types get beat and poison types are lol. This also revenges Kingdra much easier as well as just dealing more consistent damage than jirachi.

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Lucario is a horrible Kingdra check. Sub sets beat it (even though Sub DD Kingdra sucks in general), and Bulky DD versions (like RestTalk DD) can take a Close Combat (Jolly Close Combat is lol). Good players will switch out of Lucario if something seems fishy but that's another discussion for another day.

Plus, do you want to risk switching Lucario directly into Kingdra? Specs sets exist...

I guess it's a usable set, but it doesn't abuse Lucario's abilities as much as SD, CB, or Choice Specs (all have strong priority).

I like the set. You can't just use extreme speed as a reason not to use a scarf set. Revenge killers are still really important in this metagame, you just can't prevent everything from setting up.

Super Mario Bro said:

Lucario is a horrible Kingdra check. Sub sets beat it (even though Sub DD Kingdra sucks in general), and Bulky DD versions (like RestTalk DD) can take a Close Combat (Jolly Close Combat is lol). Good players will switch out of Lucario if something seems fishy but that's another discussion for another day.

Plus, do you want to risk switching Lucario directly into Kingdra? Specs sets exist...

I guess it's a usable set, but it doesn't abuse Lucario's abilities as much as SD, CB, or Choice Specs (all have strong priority).

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It doesn't check Kingdra; it revenges it. Sub sets don't really beat it because who the fuck lets Kingdra get a DD AND stay behind a Sub? Jolly CC does 62.9% - 74.2% to Sub DD so after SR and some Spikes, that's a KO. Close Combat does 38.4% - 45.8% to rest talk while they do 43.8% - 52% with a +1 Outrage. Scenario: Luke comes in as Kingdra DD's. Luke Close Combats while they Outrage for 58.7% - 69% (thats with the drop from Close Combat). You Close Combat again. So if it has taken prior damage and some SR switch-ins, you have a dead Kingdra. That doesnt seem like a loss to me. And Kingdra is used:

26 | Kingdra | 80439 | 8.28

So 8 %. Choice Specs isn't even shown on the usage stats. It's in the Other Section, so that was an interesting point. And why does this need strong priority when it outspeeds so much shit? And Vacuum Wave isn't even that strong of priority tbh.

this set is okay, just movepool options are kinda meh.

Close Combat / Stone Edge / Crunch / Me-First seems like the way to go. I don't know what else luke can do. Gahhh wish he had Trick like Jirachi!!!

Elemental punches blow dick on scarfers. Way too weak. Lets just let the next pokemon set up!

Might I question what Me First is supposed to accomplish?

Me First revenges Kingdra locked into Outrage easier I guess... But really that's all about it; Me First doesn't really do much on this set :/

Towelie said:

And why does this need strong priority when it outspeeds so much shit? And Vacuum Wave isn't even that strong of priority tbh.

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No, I'm saying that its Specs, LO, and CB sets all have powerful priority moves, so they can revenge kill many things just fine AND remain powerful threats outside of revenge killing. This set obviously does not need priority.

I don't really feel like debating this anymore, lol. All I said is that this set is usable, and if it is able to revenge kill stuff, fine. I just wish it had some sort of utility like many other scarfers have (U-Turn, Trick, etc.).

RaikouLover said:

this set is okay, just movepool options are kinda meh.

Close Combat / Stone Edge / Crunch / Me-First seems like the way to go. I don't know what else luke can do. Gahhh wish he had Trick like Jirachi!!!

Elemental punches blow dick on scarfers. Way too weak. Lets just let the next pokemon set up!

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Stone edge does 56.8% - 67% to bulky gyara with stone edge, 52.8% - 62.2% to DDnite. I understand your concern about letting pokes set up, but what's the point of having a specialist revenge killer if it can't even revenge kill reliably? I would just make sure you had answer to whatever could set up.

The thing is, while Jirachi is cool and gets utility moves like Trick and U-Turn, it hasn't got Lucario's ability to smash through weakened teams late game and it doesn't have cool 4x resistances to Bug and Dark.

Although my opinion is irrelevant I actually think this set deserves to be on site because it can get some revenge kills that other scarfed pokemon cannot. Also you should possibly mention entry hazards because it will force a few switches once your opponent discovers the choice scarf.

Bump*

I have a quick suggestion. If your team doesn't really have trouble with something like Gyarados, or Rotom Extremespeed can actually be used to help revenge things like Infernape who boost and have priority. It can also against Mach Punch Breloom, it can revenge weakened Scarf Flygon, sweepers you let get to +2, and Ninjask (lol). I know it's definitely a lesser option; I'm just wondering if it could be mentioned in AC.

I like the premise of this set. It's a good revenge killer primarily because it takes little to no damage from Stealth Rock and Sandstorm. The only thing it loses to Flygon with regards to passive damage is Spikes anyway.

I find the biggest problem to actually be Magnezone. After a revenge kill, it's pretty safe for it to come in provided you're not locked to Close Combat. I'd almost suggest Shed Shell Swords Dance Scizor, but that probably sounds like a retarded idea to try with it.

Me First revenges Kingdra locked into Outrage easier I guess... But really that's all about it; Me First doesn't really do much on this set :

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Ehhh yeah sounds pretty stupid but what else is there? I GUESS elemental punches but they just blow such dick. Wish Luke had something else like Trick. Extremespeed sounds like a good mention maybe as the 4th option