Zapdos (Update)

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Zapdos

Taking over this for G80, credits to him
Combined some sets into one, cut out the bullshit, and tried not to write too much crap.

[Overview]

<p>Zapdos has excellent stats and is useful for both offensive and defensive roles. In general, defensive Zapdos is more common and dangerous. A wall in Advance is more useful depending on how much of a Toxic Sandstorm Spikes team it can handle. With its Ground immunity and ability to brush aside Toxic by Resting, Sandstorm is the only real issue. In reality, the leftovers negation often helps Zapdos more than it hurts, as it assists in wearing down your counters. Thanks to Pressure, defensive sets can stall problem Pokemon out of moves like Ice Beam, Leech Seed, and Toxic. Hard to bring down and hard to deal with, Zapdos is one of the most dominant Pokemon in Advance.</p>

[SET]
name: Defensive Zapdos
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk / Light Screen
item: Leftovers
ability: Pressure
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 228 SpD / 28 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Zapdos has significantly more Special Attack than HP or Special Defense, its most common job is to shut down enemy Water-types and act as a wall. 384 HP and 300 Special Defense allow it to take a beating from Surfs and even un-STABed Ice Beams. Most bulky waters in question do about 30-35% with STAB-less Ice Beam and a paltry 20-25% with Surf. Light Screen is a good option if you have a Pokemon with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy on your team and you need the extra special coverage.</p>

<p>Generally you will want to use Hidden Power Grass because Zapdos is one of the best Swampert counters. Hidden Power Ice is viable to dent Celebi and other Grass-types. Ice is also useful for Flygons that boldly switch in. However, it is not recommended to stay in on such a Flygon if you did not get the Hidden Power off on the switch as you may be flinched by Rock Slide.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The Speed investment allows you to outrun Pokemon with base 70 Speed with a neutral Speed nature. Going for exactly 240 is not recommended as other Pokemon who try to break 239 will likely invest more in Speed than you.</p>

[SET]
name: Roar
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Roar
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
ability: Pressure
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 228 SpD / 28 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set plays slightly different from the one above. The most important point to make here is that Roar Zapdos is not worth using without Spikes. Having Thunderbolt as your only attacking move means Flygon and Claydol switch in on you without fear and then proceed to attack with no risk to themselves. However, Spikes is a huge deterrent to your other counters, Celebi, Blissey, Regice, and Snorlax, all of whom will take Spikes damage and get Roared away before they can do anything.</p>

<p>It is a good idea to use this set with a Ghost-type on your team. Dusclops is bulkier than Gengar but often gets trashed by the very common Toxic Sandstorm Spikes (TSS) teams. Skarmory makes for a good partner here as it comes in on some of your counters pretty well to lay down Spikes.</p>

[SET]
name: Baton Passer
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass
move 3: Substitute / Agility
move 4: Baton Pass
item: Leftovers
ability: Pressure
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 100 SpA / 156 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Zapdos is fast and reasonably bulky, so it makes for a good Baton Passer. In general, Zapdos is a superior version of Jolteon (although Jolteon can usually set up on other Electric-types). Passing both Substitute and Agility is useful. Substitute works well with frail Pokemon because it gives them an easier time switching in. Passing Agility to a slow, hard-hitting Pokemon like Rhydon or Marowak can lead to a sweep.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Agility users do not need to be fast. Usually you can keep your Speed stat at around 240-250 and invest more in Special Attack or Special Defense. This Zapdos can also function pretty well defensively even if the very common Tyranitar cuts off your only natural method of recovery. Using a Pokemon with Wish will enhance the longevity of Zapdos.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Band Zapdos
move 1: Drill Peck
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Ground
move 4: Steel Wing
item: Choice Band
ability: Pressure
nature: Hasty
evs: 252 Atk / 100 SpA / 156 Spe

<p>Choice Band is rarely used on Zapdos, but it is viable. On paper, this set is very hard to counter. Swampert will almost never try to take on a Zapdos, and will take about 35% damage from Drill Peck if it does. With a 418 Attack stat, 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Blissey takes 39-46% from Drill Peck or 46-54% from Hidden Power Fighting. Tyranitar is nearly OHKOed by Hidden Power Fighting, and most Metagross will take about 40-50% from Thunderbolt or Hidden Power Ground.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>The main draw of Zapdos as a Choice Bander instead of the more conventional Salamence or Metagross is its ability to OHKO the most common Choice Band counter in the game: Skarmory. While being hard to switch in on, this set has major flaws with longevity. Usually you have to predict an Earthquake (or another move that does very little damage to you). You can no longer brave Ice Beams on the switch. Like with all Choice Banders, using this set with Wish support is a good idea.</p>

[SET]
name: MS-Dos
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Metal Sound
move 4: Thunder Wave / Substitute
item: Leftovers
ability: Pressure
nature: Modest
evs: 188 HP / 172 SpA / 148 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>A straight-up Special Attacking Zapdos. With Metal Sound on the switch, Blissey takes about 34-40%. Snorlax can take as much as 50% damage, and your counters will generally not want to stay around for another attack. Using this with Spikes makes it work much like Screech Flygon: stay in and lose a lot of HP or run and take Spikes damage. Thunder Wave can aid in taking down sturdy foes as well. Substitute is useful for dodging moves like Thunder Wave, Toxic, and Leech Seed. The EVs allow you to outrun threats like Adamant Heracross and standard Dragon Dance Salamence.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>Defensive Zapdos is good glue for a team, and is an excellent addition to a stall team. Generally, you want Spikes along with Zapdos whether or not it has Roar. Toxic Sandstorm Spikes teams are usually weak to Swampert and its fellow Water-types. Zapdos fills in the gaps almost perfectly here.</p>

<p>Baton Pass Zapdos is a good teammate for a slow Pokemon that needs assistance in setting up. Rhydon may not be common, but he works well with Zapdos. Zapdos can take Ground and Fighting attacks while Rhydon can take Rock and Normal attacks. Marowak is another good choice for an Agility recipient.</p>

<p>Other offensive Zapdos sets work well with Celebi. Have Celebi set up a few Calm Minds and pass to a Pokemon with superior sweeping ability like Zapdos. In case you get an unwelcome match-up, Zapdos can even Baton Pass to something else and keep the Calm Mind boosts.</p>

<p>Also worth noting is that Zapdos is arguably the best recipient of a Baton Pass chain. Marowak is another popular choice, although Zapdos can keep the chain going if necessary. Make sure to max out Attack and Special Attack for such a set.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>Thunder over Thunderbolt if you want to take the risk of missing in exchange for huge damage and an effective 21% chance to paralyze the opponent. Toxic is a decent option on a more defensive set as it completely screws Flygon and Claydol. Toxic also prevents Celebi from getting too many Calm Minds in, and it stalls Blissey well too. Rain Dance is the only other thing worth mentioning. In the rarely played Advance Doubles metagame, Rain Dance Zapdos was often used to set up Pokemon that benefited from it, like Kingdra.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Blissey, Regice, Celebi, Snorlax, Venusaur, and the combination of Swampert and Flygon are the most common ways to deal with Zapdos. The last option is more risky and involves playing off of resistances. You will have to make some switches to figure out which Hidden Power Zapdos is packing.</p>

<p>Most other Electric-types are also good counters. Raikou has to watch out for Thunder Wave, but will take Thunderbolts and Hidden Powers pretty well. Consider though, that Zapdos usually has an easier time switching in than Raikou does, and that it also is more likely to pack Rest and Sleep Talk. Jolteon can turn Thunderbolts into free HP, but is a situational Pokemon overall.</p>
 
edits will be in bold

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Zapdos

Combined some sets into one, cut out the bullshit, and tried not to write too much crap.

[SET]
name: Defensive Zapdos
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk / Light Screen
item: Leftovers
ability: Pressure
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 228 SpD / 28 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Zapdos has significantly more Special Attack than HP or Special Defense, its most common job is to shut down enemy Water-types and act as a wall. 384 HP and 300 Special Defense allow it to take a beating from Surfs and even un-STABed Ice Beams. Most bulky waters in question do about 30-35% with STAB-less Ice Beam and a paltry 20-25% with Surf. Light Screen is a good option if you have a Pokemon with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy on your team and you need the extra special coverage.</p>

<p>Generally you will want to use Hidden Power Grass because Zapdos is one of the best Swampert counters. Hidden Power Ice is viable to dent Celebi and other Grass-types. Ice is also useful for Flygons that boldly switch in. However, it is not recommended to stay in on such a Flygon if you did not get the Hidden Power off on the switch as you may be flinched by Rock Slide.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The Speed investment allows you to outrun Pokemon with base 70 Speed with a neutral Speed nature. Going for exactly 240 is not recommended as other Pokemon who try to break 239 will likely invest more in Speed than you.</p>

[SET]
name: Roar
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Roar
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
ability: Pressure
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 228 SpD / 28 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set plays slightly different from the one above. The most important point to make here is that Roar Zapdos is not worth using without Spikes. Having Thunderbolt as your only attacking move means Flygon and Claydol switch in on you without fear and then proceed to attack with no risk to themselves. However, Spikes is a huge deterrent to your other counters, Celebi, Blissey, Regice, and Snorlax, all of whom will take Spikes damage and get Roared away before they can do anything.</p>

<p>It is a good idea to use this set with a Ghost-type on your team. Dusclops is bulkier than Gengar but often gets trashed by the very common Toxic Sandstorm Spikes (TSS) teams. Skarmory makes for a good partner here as it comes in on some of your counters pretty well to lay down Spikes.</p>

[SET]
name: Baton Passer
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass
move 3: Substitute / Agility
move 4: Baton Pass
item: Leftovers
ability: Pressure
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 100 SpA / 156 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Zapdos is fast and reasonably bulky, so it makes for a good Baton Passer. In general, Zapdos is a superior version of Jolteon (although Jolteon can usually set up on other Electric-types). Passing both Substitute and Agility is useful. Substitute works well with frail Pokemon because it gives them an easier time switching in. Passing Agility to a slow, hard-hitting Pokemon like Rhydon or Marowak can lead to a sweep.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Agility users do not need to be fast. Usually you can keep your Speed stat at around 240-250 and invest more in Special Attack or Special Defense. This Zapdos can also function pretty well defensively even if the very common Tyranitar cuts off your only natural method of recovery. Using a Pokemon with Wish will provide the longevity of Zapdos.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Band Zapdos
move 1: Drill Peck
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Ground
move 4: Steel Wing
item: Choice Band
ability: Pressure
nature: Hasty
evs: 252 Atk / 100 SpA / 156 Spe

<p>Choice Band is rarely used on Zapdos, but it is viable. On paper, this set is very hard to counter. Swampert will almost never try to take on a Zapdos, and will take about 35% damage from Drill Peck if it does. With a 418 Attack stat, 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Blissey takes 39-46% from Drill Peck or 46-54% from Hidden Power Fighting. Tyranitar is nearly OHKOed by Hidden Power Fighting, and most Metagross will take about 40-50% from Thunderbolt or Hidden Power Ground.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>The main draw of Zapdos as a Choice Bander instead of the more conventional Salamence or Metagross is its ability to OHKO the most common Choice Band counter in the game: Skarmory. While being hard to switch in on, this set has major flaws with longevity. Usually you have to predict an Earthquake (or another move that does very little damage to you). You can no longer brave Ice Beams on the switch. Like with all Choice Banders, using this set with Wish support is a good idea.</p>

[SET]
name: MS-Dos
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Metal Sound
move 4: Thunder Wave / Substitute
item: Leftovers
ability: Pressure
nature: Modest
evs: 188 HP / 172 SpA / 148 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>A straight-up Special Attacking Zapdos. With Metal Sound on the switch, Blissey takes about 34-40%. Snorlax can take as much as 50% damage, and your counters will generally not want to stay around for another attack. Using this with Spikes makes it work much like Screech Flygon: stay in and lose a lot of HP or run and take Spikes damage. Thunder Wave can aid in taking down sturdy foes as well. Substitute is useful for dodging moves like Thunder Wave, Toxic, and Leech Seed. The EVs allow you to outrun threats like Adamant Heracross and standard Dragon Dance Salamence.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Thunder over Thunderbolt if you want to take the risk of missing in exchange for huge damage and an effective 21% chance to paralyze the opponent. Toxic is a decent option on a more defensive set as it completely renders Flygon and Claydol useless. Toxic also prevents Celebi from getting too many Calm Minds in, and it stalls Blissey well too.</p>

[EVs]

<p>Max HP on all defensive sets is a must. You generally want to break 240 for a defensive Zapdos and pour the rest into Special Defense.</p>

<p>Offensive sets should aim for either 270+ Speed if Modest to outrun neutral base 85 Pokemon or 300+ for Timid or Hasty variants.</p>

[Opinion]

<p>Zapdos has excellent stats and is useful for both offensive and defensive roles. In general, defensive Zapdos is more common and dangerous. A wall in Advance is more useful depending on how much of a Toxic Sandstorm Spikes team it can handle. With its Ground immunity and ability to brush aside Toxic by Resting, Sandstorm is the only real issue. In reality, the leftovers negation often helps Zapdos more than it hurts, as it allows you to wear down your own counters easily. Thanks to Pressure, defensive sets can stall problem Pokemon out of moves like Ice Beam, Leech Seed, and Toxic. Hard to bring down and hard to deal with, Zapdos is one of the most dominant Pokemon in Advance.</p>


[Counters]

<p>Blissey, Regice, Celebi, Snorlax, Venusaur, and the combination of Swampert and Flygon are the most common ways to deal with Zapdos. The last option is more risky and involves playing off of resistances. You will have to make some switches to figure out which Hidden Power Zapdos is packing.</p>

<p>Most other Electric-types are also good counters. Raikou has to watch out for Thunder Wave, but will take Thunderbolts and Hidden Powers pretty well. Consider though, that Zapdos usually has an easier time switching in than Raikou does, and that it also is more likely to pack Rest and Sleep Talk. Jolteon can turn Thunderbolts into free HP, but is a situational Pokemon overall.</p>

EVs, Opinion, and Other Options have all been removed in the new standard for analyses. We now have an Optional Changes section which is basically sets that could be used but aren't really that good -- like gimmicks. You also need the Team Options section after the sets are posted see Gyarados's analysis for an example (I still proof read the parts that'll stay btw) You also need an Overview
 
I'm glad to see that this writeup has a little more meat on it than your others. I'd still like to see a bit more discussion about set-specific teammates/counters, nature justification, and EV justification for each set. All of these details go into the [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] part of the set, which you'll need to include for all of the sets that don't currently have it. I know you really want to keep this short, and I appreciate that, but you need to not omit important content in your attempt to do so.
 
all of that stuff is mentioned in either team options or counters anyway, what's the point of including it twice? i'm not going to explain why every set has the exact evs/nature that it does unless it is actually important to emphasize something (like 101 hp subs). it should be pretty easy to infer stuff, writing a million pages on crap completely discourages anyone from actually reading it.
 
You're exaggerating, of course. Adding a paragraph per set is not a million pages of crap, nor does it discourage anyone from reading anything. And you should explain why every set has the nature and EVs that it does; you're a player, it's obvious to you, you can infer it. Others cannot do that. I was reading this and I don't know why you'd use 156 Speed EVs over 252 or what that makes you outspeed in this metagame; you need to tell the readers that.
G80 said:
all of that stuff is mentioned in either team options or counters anyway, what's the point of including it twice?
Because surely not every set has the exact same counters and team options. If they do, somehow, then one sentence will suffice. That's not "a million pages on crap".
 
Because surely not every set has the exact same counters and team options. If they do, somehow, then one sentence will suffice. That's not "a million pages on crap".

you want counters and team options in the additional comments for every set, and two more sections that reiterate everything..? counters and teammates will overlap between sets anyway.
 
That is how it is written, yes. Imagine this. You're a new player and you see people running one set on a Pokemon a lot, but you don't want to read the whole analysis. So what you do is go to the set write-up to figure out all there is to know about that set, including teammates/counters. It doesn't have to be as in-depth as the TO/Counters section, and yes there will be some overlap, but that's ok. Focus primarily on the most important teammates and counters to the set; you don't need to list any Pokemon that works well with or against it. The whole counters/team options part of the AC section of a set shouldn't take more than 5 lines on-site.
 
Rising_Dusk, you should probably drop this. Old analyses weren't held to nearly the "standards" that new ones are, and it's a losing fight to try and change it this way.

(as a side note i agree with him)
 
Yes, Venser's absolutely right, and GS and I have discussed this in the past as well. This section of the site was brought into existence because it would raise the older analyses to current standards and simultaneously update them to be useful with current-day ADV battling. I appreciate your concern, SDS, but if we're going to be doing this at all, we're going to be doing it right. ;)
 
Just locking this since it's been forever since it was updated and the sections aren't nearly beefy enough to warrant replacing what's onsite atm
 
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