Meet Noble team

Roserade starts of this team. Basicly for one reason only, Toxic Spikes. Toxic Spikes will give Empoleon the power to plow through special walls such as Blissey and Thick Fat Snorlax. Roserade also fairs well against common leads so I can put them to Sleep and thanks to her pretty decent speed stat and Focus Sash I will get up 2 layers of Toxic Spikes up on most occassions. Leaf Storm and Hidden Power [Ground] are there to have some offensive moves and with max special attack EV's they will hurt. The lack of Poison types in OU make Toxic Spikes a good option anyway.






Swampert is one bulky pokemon and because of that he makes a fine candidate for using Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock is very useful as it deals 25% to Flying types that are immune to Toxic Spikes. Swampert's bulk is also really appreciated as he is needed to counter a variety of threats. Earthquake and Ice Beam as offensive moves provide almost perfect coverage and with Roar in his moveset Swampert is prevented to become set up fodder.






Dragonite is my wallbreaker and a damn good one if I might say so myself. Common pokemon on stall teams such as the SkarmBliss combo are beaten pretty easily. Dragonite usually comes out early in the game to damage a lot of opposing pokemon to make it easier for my sweepers to start sweeping. Don't be fooled by the fact that I'm using a Mild nature as Dragonite still remains a fairly bulky pokemon and if needed I can Roost stall my opponent if Toxic Spikes are up. At first I had ExtremeSpeed instead of Roost but since I don't have a spinner and Life Orb recoil builds up fast Dragonite was less threatening in the long run and I never really used ExtremeSpeed that much. Draco Meteor is an immensly strong STAB move that will hurts most non-Steel type pokemon. Flamethrower and Superpower are two powerful moves that can deal with defensive opposition on both sides of the spectrum.

Hi Delko! ^^

So this looks like a pretty good Empoleon-centered team, and you've definitely got ways to assist it in sweeping. This won't be one of my standard rates, since there aren't too many major threats/problems to point out, so I'll just suggest a couple of somewhat minor changes.

As you may have noticed, your team currently has some trouble dealing with standard Machamp leads. Since they carry Lum Berry, Sleep Powder won't take care of them, and they can safely deal some major damage to anything on your team. You could get down one layer of Toxic Spikes and just sacrifice Roserade, but two layers are really ideal for taking care of special walls like Blissey and Machamp still gets an opportunity to hit something on your team hard. With that in mind, I'd like to recommend taking Roserade out of the lead position and giving it a bulkier set for more survivability:

Roserade @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/136 SpD
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Sleep Powder
- Grass Knot
- Rest

This Roserade set is incredibly bulky in terms of special defense, which means that it often finds multiple opportunities to switch in and begin setting up; even strong Ice-type attacks such as LO Starmie's Ice Beam are unable to KO it without significant prior damage. In the current metagame, common bulky waters provide almost free switch-ins for Roserade, as it can threaten them with a STAB Grass Knot. Sleep Powder is kept for its ability to take out any opposing switch-ins that threaten your team, while Rest gives you an easy way to recover health in combination with Natural Cure.

Other than that, I'm somewhat questioning the effectiveness of Swampert. It suffers from the increased use of Grass-types like Shaymin and Celebi in the current metagame, so you might want to consider replacing it with a more effective lead if you plan on using the Roserade set listed above. LO Heatran in particular may be a good choice, since it can threaten many common leads while settting up Stealth Rock, and can even explode on Blissey to take out Empoleon's best counter. Getting rid of Swampert does open up more of a weakness to DD Tyranitar, however, so adding in Mach Punch somewhere on Infernape's moveset by changing it to a more physically-based variant could be helpful for checking that threat.

Good luck with your team!

Hey man, this looks like a very powerful team, with the most common threats covered well, so good work on that. Halo Reach... this is one of the times I wish I'd bought a X-Box over PS3 =/

Threats
Offensive Suicune
Offensive Zapdos
Lead Machamp

Suicune can shrug off Rotom's Hydro Pump and Dragonite's Flamethrower, force you out, and get a CM boost. Your best option after that is to weaken Suicune out with Toxic Spikes, and revenge with Rotom. Otherwise, Suicune will survive its Thunderbolt at +1 and guarantee a KO with boosted Hydro Pump, assuming Stealth Rock is up. If T-spikes aren't up however, its going to be even more threatening. Life Orb Zapdos can come in on Swampert's Earthquake or Infernape's Grass Knot or Close Combat. From there it can be as threatening as Suicune, though it doesn't waste a turn to set up, just begins its slaughter fest, putting a major dent in everything with STAB LO Thunderbolt, bar Swampert and Rotom-W, the former handled by HP Grass, the latter loses a chunk from Heatwave and HP Grass (Heatwave 2HKOs). Finally Machamp is one of the leads that is very daunting to face, and I know that, because I always run Empoleon teams similar to this. After Machamp KOs Roserade, you're best option is to send in Swampert, who at best can Roar with a 50% chance, meaning it will have to face the terror once again.

Right off the bat, I think Roserade should swap places with Swampert, and Swampert turning into LO Heatran. Specially defensive Roserade outside of the lead spot can deal with Offensive Suicne and other Offensive/Bulky Water types, especially Vaporeon, one of Empoleon's worst enemy, and manage a myriad of Special Attackers. Max HP/Sdef with a Calm Nature and a moveset of Grass Knot/Toxic Spikes/Sleep Powder/HP Ice or Ground or even Rest with Black Sludge should suffice. Now allow me to explain the LO Tran lead. Life Orb Heatran can aid in removing Empoleon's favorite switch-in, Blissey, and luring in plenty of Water type attacks for Roserade to set up Toxic Spikes and cripple something with Sleep powder early game, or for Empoleon setting up Agility and sweeping. I think 176 HP/252 Satk/80 Spe Mild Nature, and LO, its good to have bulk in HP to take on random Special attacks from non-invested Thunderbolts from Rotom, and other neutral/resisted hits. SR/Overheat/Explosion/HP Grass sounds good. Finally make Rotom's spread 200 HP/56 Satk/252 HP to take Agility Metagross on better, and you can test Will-O-Wisp over Hydro Pump to take it on better, since you're losing a check in Swampert to Zen Headbutt Gross. Zapdos can be handled by Roserade if you wish to use HP Ice, and Heatran as well, which takes 40% damage maximum from its Thunderbolt, thanks to the invested bulk, and can land a massive hit with Overheat.

Otherwise, Solid team, kinda sad I can't play Halo Reach :(

GL

EDIT: Ninja'd by Faladran

Thanks for the feedback Faladran and The Legendkiller, much appreciated.
Since both your rates are kind of similar I shall reply in one comment:

Machamp leads are a bit problematic but it can be overcome. I Leaf Storm with Roserade as they Ice Punch / Stone Edge which takes me to my Focus Sash. Then I'll go to Rotom-W on the Payback and finish him of. If my opponents brings in a SR user I'll go immediatly to Roserade to put it to sleep and to lay down Toxic Spikes. But your Heatran suggestions is a good idea and shall be tested for sure. I shall also try the bulkier Roserade set (both of them) since it has good synergy with Heatran. I shall also test SD ape instead of the NP one I'm currently using. Mach Punch also sound useful for taking out Lucario, who can be a big threat. Rotom-W's bulkier spread also sounds nice and will be tested as well.

So to sum up this is what I'm currently trying:

~ LO Heatran instead of Swampert and moving to lead position.
~ Bulkier Roserade.
~ Sword Dance Infernape with Mach Punch.
~ Bulkier Rotom-W spread.

Big thanks to both of you. ^^

Keep rating people!

Make sure you change your 252 Special Defense EVs on Infernape to Speed. You probably were typing fast and didn't catch it or something.

symphonyx64 said:

Make sure you change your 252 Special Defense EVs on Infernape to Speed. You probably were typing fast and didn't catch it or something.

Click to expand...

Yeah that was a typo ^^, fixed it ^^

Bump.

Posting an update here because the OP get's messed up when I change anything in it.

Anyway this are the changes that have been made:

~ Swampert has been replaced by Heatran:

Outside of Scarf rotom, you don't have much in the way of checking offensive or even bulky DD gyara perhaps careful playing and ensuring rotom's livelihood may help, but perhaps you may want to consider a phazer / another scarfer / wish passer (to keep rotom healthy). Maybe even HP Elec on Empoleon although you lose some type coverage.

Thanks for the rate Poppycock ^^
Bulky Gyarados cannot touch Empoleon because it's only moves are Waterfall and Stone Edge and the offensive versions with Earthquake are stalled out by Life Orb recoil damage and smart switching on my part.
You have a point though, perhaps you should bring Swampert back in.

Hey Delko,

Pretty good team, don't see much wrong with it. I think that Swampert's Electric immunity brings a lot to the table, and the fact remains that it was your teams only answer to dangerous threats such as DD Dragonite, DD Tyranitar (Infernape can only revenge), and Choice Scarf Flygon, who actually rips apart your team quite easily with the appropriate moves. Swampert's bulk is also sorely missed here, so I really advocate going back to using Swampert. Lead Machamp usage has declined a lot, and if you face a lead Machamp, it's not likely to be a stall team, which means that Blissey and Snorlax will likely not be around. Moving Swampert to the lead spot is a good idea, and a bulky Roserade will be pretty beneficial to the team. And ofcourse, another plus of reverting back to Swampert is Roar, shuffling around Stall teams and racking up hazard damage.

Not much else to add, nice team and good luck!

Thanks IB for the rate ^^

I was already thinking about bringing Swampert back in.
I made these changes:

~ Swampert came back instead of Heatran and is now my lead.

~ Roserade is a bulkier version.

Free bump, even though I hate Halo, I really like this team and I'd love to see more input on it, I'm working on a team that's fairly similar.

I also see the use of swampert and it's not great to have infernape and heatran on the same team, they are fighting for the same kills, while having the same weaknesses.

On the topic of infernapre, that set is a bit outdated. Infernapes use in the current metagame is the fact he needs no set up to cuase havoc. I would suggest a set of:

Infernape @ Life orb
252 attack/ 192 speed/64 special attack
Naive/Hasty
- Close Combat
- Overheat
- Stone egde
- Mach Punch

The reason this infernape is so deadly, is because a combination of Close combat + a filler move will down so many pokemon. Making it a really hard set to switch into.

E.g.
Vaporeon: Close combat x 2
Offensive Suicune: Close combat x 2
Hippowdon: Close combat + Overheat
Gliscor: Close combat + Overheat
Flygon: Close combat + Mach Punch
Tentacruel: Close combat x 2
Gyrados: Close combat + Stone edge
Dragonite: Close combat + Stone edge

Putting toxic spikes into the mixer will make this set deadly. Mach punch will help you out vs DD tyranitar, Flygon and Lucario. This infernape also makes a great sweeper, as it doesn't need any set up.

I personally think suicune outclasse agility empoleon. Pffensive Suicune is harder to revenge kill, more bulky. Easier to set up, has better coverage etc.

Now for roserade, I would recomend running 299 speed, to beat offensive suicune and max speed Rotom forms. Then bulking up and enough special attack to 2hko with grass knot after a calm mind.

Hi Delko,

Posting to say that I'm also in favor of keeping Swampert on the team. Swampert's Ground typing allows it to switch into Electric types, Tyranitar and check DD Dragonite and is overall an invaluable member of your team in my opinion. IB is right as well when it comes to using a mid-game Spiker Roserade. Roserade is much more suited to the mid-game, where he makes a decent switch-in to Water Pokemon and special attackers, and can at least try to put himself in an advantageous position since lead Roserade doesn't fare well as a lead in the current metagame.

With that being said, the only evident issue I could find are Pokemon combinations with Tyranitar. TTar + SD Lucario and TTar + DD Taunt Gyarados will devastate your team if TTar packs Pursuit since you rely on Rotom-W a lot to check those offensive threats. To somewhat solve this issue, I would reccomend using a physically based MixApe over your current set. I particularly dislike Nasty Plot Infernape because it cannot set-up with ease and is easily revenge killed. Use a set of: Close Combat / Overheat / Stone Edge / Mach Punch, Life Orb, Naive nature and 252 Atk / 64 SpA / 192 Spe. Mach Punch gives you a priority move to check SD Lucario and Infernape becomes harder to revenge kill as well. Additionally, you can lure in Gyarados and nail it with Stone Edge after it has taken an Overheat and SR damage. Close Combat also 2HKOes most bulky Waters aiding Empoleon significantly.

As for minor changes, you can try out Stun Spore on Roserade. Stun Spore effectively cripples dangerous things like Scarf Flygon, Scarf Jirachi, Infernape, Heatran and Lucario on the switch. Scarf Flygon, Scarf Jirachi and Scarf Rotom-A can potentially prevent Empoleon from sweeping late game, so paralysing them will increase Empoleon's chances of cleaning the opponent's team, so be sure to try it out!

Solid team Delko, gl.

Thanks for the suggestions George182 and Nosferalto ^^
I shall test the following:

~ Physically based MixApe instead of NPApe.

~ Stun Spore on Roserade.

hey i didn't really look at other peoples post but i have an odd idea that i think could work on this team. first off, swampert kinda blows in this metagame. (2/3 of fwg eat it alive, and heatran has hp grass, infernape has grass knot, etc. so essentially all of fwg beats it.)
and one other thing i noticed is you have a roserade lead. you say there aren't many poison types, but dual spiking roserade is EVERYWHERE, lo spin starmie is EVERYWHERE, (hydro pump kos rotom after two rocks i think.) and forry isn't common but it's seen. so basically, your only option of keeping t spikes up is to somehow guarantee a removal of starmie/roserade. this idea may seem stupid, but i think a good combo for this team is non lead roserade + cb dugtrio. dugtrio does 77.9% - 91.6% to starmie (with eq, kos with sucker punch) and 72.8% - 86.4% to the roserades that split defense and spdef. with rocks + 1 layer of spikes thats a ohko. it also traps heatran, tyranitar (outspeeds scarf), infernape, etc. it does let dragonite set up, so i would put hp ice > trick or hydro pump on rotom. ya, hydro pump is good for hitting ttar, but if you use shadow ball, dd tyranitar can still set up and fuck you over. because of this, use sd priority infernape. it kos vappy and offensive cune after rocks at +2 while also giving you a tyranitar revenger. and now you need a lead. you need rocks. you need a machamp killer. so i would use lo modest heatran. so in conclusion:

lead heatran @ life orb, modest, enough speed for ttar, overheat, hp grass, stealth rock, earth power/explosion.

sd infernape @ life orb, jolly, max max, sd, cc, fire punch or flare blitz if you want a gliscor killer, and mach punch.

dual spiking roserade @ lefties. i use max hp max spdef calm, t spikes, spikes, stun spore, rest. (grass knot hits like a woman.)

hp ice on rotom > something.

cb duggy > pert.

so ya, gl with the team. oh and halo reach sucks. mw2 > halo

Okay, thanks Towelie ^^
Your suggestions are already being tested except for the Heatran one. After some other suggestions I decided to keep Swampert as he is the much needed backbone of the team.