Cacturne (Defensive Spikes)

Cacturne

So I was really surprised to see that Cacturne's analysis lacks a defensive Spiker set. It has plenty of advantages over other Spikers, and has extra utility as a defensive poke with things like Encore/Leech Seed. I've used this to quite a bit of success on a few teams and it's pretty effective, especially under sandstorm.

Status: done

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[SET]
name: Defensive Spiker
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Synthesis / Substitute
move 3: Encore / Leech Seed
move 4: Energy Ball
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Cacturne is usually seen in an offensive role, it also functions fantastically as a defensive Spiker. Cacturne holds several advantages over fellow UU Spikes users; it's the only one with access to Encore, one of only two with instant recovery, and can be utilized under sandstorm to abuse Sand Veil. Its fantastic Special Attack stat also allows Cacturne to threaten most common Rapid Spinners with super effective Grass-type attacks. This set excels at laying down Spikes against many common Pokemon, such as Registeel, Spiritomb, Rotom, Milotic, and other bulky Water-types.</p>

<p>Synthesis provides recovery, allowing Cacturne to stick around longer and set up as many layers of Spikes as possible. Substitute should replace Synthesis if Cacturne is being used under sandstorm, since under those conditions Synthesis would recover only 25% health, while Substitute works well with Sand Veil. Encore is useful to lock opponents into a non-threatening move for more opportunities to lay down Spikes and prevents Cacturne from becoming set-up fodder. Leech Seed serves a similar purpose, allowing Cacturne to force switches and regain additional health. Energy Ball occupies the final slot as the best general attacking option, dealing heavy damage to all Rapid Spinners.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>As previously mentioned, this set can be used under sandstorm to abuse Sand Veil; if you choose to do so, then Hippopotas is a mandatory teammate, preferably in the lead position. BrightPowder can be the item of choice in this case, frustrating opponents even more by boosting Cacturne's already enhanced evasion. Grass Knot is a valid alternative to Energy Ball, hitting Pokemon like Milotic harder, as well as Rapid Spinners such as Claydol, Cloyster, and Donphan. Dark Pulse is another viable attacking option due to its great neutral coverage.</p>

<p>Hitmontop is easily the best counter to this set, as it can Rapid Spin away Spikes and OHKO with Close Combat. Since Spikes is the crux of this set, Ghost-types such as Mismagius, Rotom, or Spiritomb are necessary teammates to spinblock; they also provide an invaluable immunity to Fighting-type attacks. Cacturne's 4x weakness to Bug encourages opponents to attempt to gain momentum with U-turn users, the most notable of which is Scyther, who packs a punch, is immune to Spikes, and isn't bothered by Sand Veil thanks to Aerial Ace. Steel-types such as Registeel are recommended teammates as a result of this, and their resistances to the Ice-, Poison-, and Flying-type attacks that frighten Cacturne come in handy too. Finally, bulky Water-types pair well with Cacturne as they can sponge Fire-type attacks from the likes of Houndoom and Blaziken, who both resist Cacturne's STAB moves.</p>

I think there should be a slightly faster spread mentioned to outpace slower mons. However, as it is it's good.

Erebyssial said:

- 115 Base SpAtk threatens most spinners (Hitmontop is the only common one not weak to grass)
...
- Dark Pulse for its great neutral coverage, Grass attacks hit spinners harder

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I would advocate Energy Ball as the primary option. It seems that spinners will be the biggest threat to this Cacturne, so hitting them is a priority, as the main goal of this set is to set up Spikes. While Dark Pulse might provide good neutral coverage, you're most likely switching out of Fire-types and the like, which Energy Ball wouldn't be hitting.

That's a very minor issue. Kudos on the set ^_^

Add in optional changes that you can use a 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def / 4 Speed Calm spread also. I don't see any physically based Pokemon that you can try and set-up on mainly to your poor Speed and also the majority carry SE moves(Besides Registeel). Bug, Poison, Fighting and Fire are quite common physical attack types and also since the majority of the Pokemon that you can set up spikes on are Specially based attackers/ Walls it would be more beneficial (Milotic Lefties Tank, Rotom, NP Spriitomb, Slowbro, Lanturn etc). Great set!!

Yeah, I would prefer to see a more specially defensive version too, since most of Cacturne's resistances come from more specially attacking types (Water, Grass, Psychic, Ghost, Dark?).

Ok so just emphatizing what others said, this set should focus on its Special Defense so switch into things like Blastoise and Milotic with Ice Beam, Lanturn and so on. Also, you should give an exclusive mention to Energy Ball as its fourth move. Without a Grass attack you'll lose to most, if not every single bulky Water, and will fail to defeat all spinners. Long story short, this is what I have in mind:

name: Defensive Spiker
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Synthesis / Substitute
move 3: Encore / Leech Seed
move 4: Energy Ball
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

You should then leave Dark Pulse and Grass Knot to additional comments, mentioning how they deal with Rotom / heavier bulky Water-types respectively, but fail to hit most spinners for respectable damage or are just unreliable attacks (yeah, I'm not a GK fan). Outside of that it's a great set, I'm quite surprised no one had written this before:



Edit: I've implemented what Eo said; it seems I had forgotten to change natures. Should be good to go now.

I tried a similar set before, and I liked it. Seconding Bluewind's spread, except the nature should be Calm, not Bold. Oh, and 4 EVs in Def > Spe to avoid Speed creep.

Ok cool, changed the spread to SpD. I disagree that Dark Pulse should be moved to AC though.. it's just as viable as Energy Ball imo. If you're running Leech Seed bulky waters can't do much anyway, and spinners won't usually stay in on Cacturne until its revealed it doesn't have a grass move (ie. often late-game). It's in AC but let me know if you happen to change your mind.

Also should the max Defense variant be mentioned in AC now then?

Heysup said:

I think there should be a slightly faster spread mentioned to outpace slower mons. However, as it is it's good.

Click to expand...

Any particular Speed mark you have in mind? Only thing I can think of without sacrificing too much bulk is 44 EVs to outspeed base 60s (Weezing/Clefable).

Thanks for the fast approvals btw, writeup will be up soon

Bulky Waters have Ice Beam to hit it and considering Cacturne's defenses aren't the best, he'll get quite owned by it; don't forget Venusaur takes 50% from a Milotic's Ice Beam. I also don't see the point of a max Defense variant, as every single Pokémon you wish you could be switching into is a physical Grass-, Water- or Ground-type; and all of Rhyperior, Donphan, Azumarill, Leafeon and SD Venusaur own you.

Wait...You say that it does great under a Sandstorm, but Synthesis is in the second slot? I think that Leech Seed would make more sense in Sandstorm, but since this is now in Copyediting, I guess it's a little too late. However, I think that you should switch Leech Seed and Substitute's slots, as I can see Substitute being run over Encore, and Leech Seed over Synthesis. Basically this:

move 1: Spikes
move 2: Synthesis / Leech Seed
move 3: Encore / Substitute
move 4: Energy Ball

I'm just making suggestions here. However, I think that Scyther should specifically be mentioned as a counter. Not only does it have U-Turn, but it also has Aerial Ace, which will always hit even under Sandstorm, and its Bug/Flying typing gives it a 4x resist to Energy Ball and an immunity to Spikes. Surprisingly, he also makes a good partner, as he can defeat Hitmontop, Blaziken, and Venusaur with Aerial Ace, and Houndoom with Brick Break (Scyther outspeeds all of them, although don't switch him into Fire-type attacks). Hopefully my comments helped!

@Flashrider: Yeah, I'm gonna mention that Sub is only for sandstorm (hence why it was slashed with Synthesis) and that Leech Seed is the prefered option when doing so. Good point on Scyther, I'll be sure to emphasize it in the U-turn part of counters.

@Bluewind: Since the max def version was the one Heysup approved I thought it should still be mentioned somewhere (maybe OO instead..?). It definitely does have perks over max SpD though.

EDIT: Writeup is done, ready for GP checks.

GP CHECK 1/2

pink is grammar edits
blue is prose edits

[SET]
name: Defensive Spiker
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Synthesis / Substitute
move 3: Encore / Leech Seed
move 4: Energy Ball
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Cacturne is usually seen in an offensive role, it also functions fantastically as a defensive Spiker. Cacturne holds several advantages over fellow UU Spikes users; it's the only one with access to Encore, one of only two with instant recovery, and can be utilized under sandstorm to abuse Sand Veil. Its fantastic Special Attack stat also allows Cacture to threaten most common Rapid Spinners with super effective Grass-type attacks. This set excels at laying down Spikes against many common Pokemon, such as Registeel, Spiritomb, Rotom, Milotic, and other bulky Water-types.</p>

<p>Synthesis provides recovery, allowing Cacture to stick around longer in order to set up as many layers of Spikes as possible. Substitute should replace Synthesis if Cacturne is being used under sandstorm since it would then recover only 25% health, and Substitute works well with Sand Veil. Encore is useful to lock opponents into a move for more opportunities to lay down Spikes, and prevents Cacturne from being set up fodder. Leech Seed serves a similar purpose, allowing Cacturne to force switches and regain additional health. Energy Ball occupies the final slot as the best general attacking option, dealing heavy damage to all Rapid Spinners.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>As previously mentioned, this set can be used under sandstorm to abuse Sand Veil; if so, Hippopotas is a mandatory teammate, preferably in the lead position. BrightPowder can be the item of choice in this case, frustrating opponents even more due to Cacturne's boosted evasion. Grass Knot is an alternative to Energy Ball, hitting Pokemon like Milotic harder as well as Rapid Spinners such as Claydol, Cloyster, and Donphan. Dark Pulse is another viable attacking option due to its great neutral coverage.</p>

<p>Hitmontop is easily the best counter to this set, as it can Rapid Spin away Spikes or OHKO with Close Combat. Since Spikes is the crux of this set, Ghost-types like Mismagius, Rotom, or Spiritomb are necessary teammates to spinblock; the aforementioned Ghosts also provide an immunity to Fighting-type attacks. Cacturne's 4x weakness to Bug attracts opponents to gain momentum with U-turn users, most notably Scyther, who packs a punch, is immune to Spikes, and isn't bothered by Sand Veil thanks to Aerial Ace. Steel-types such as Registeel are recommended teammates as a result, and their resistances to Ice-, Poison-, and Flying-type attacks that frighten Cacturne come in handy, too. Finally, bulky Water-types pair well with Cacturne as they can absorb Fire-type attacks from the likes of Houndoom and Blaziken, who both resist Cacturne's STAB moves.</p>

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good analysis in terms of grammar, but some minor prose issues imo. still, nice job!

Changes made, thank you. One thing I'm wondering though with this sentence:

Since Spikes is the crux of this set, Ghost-types like Mismagius, Rotom, or Spiritomb are necessary teammates to spinblock; the aforementioned Ghosts also provide an immunity to Fighting-type attacks.

Click to expand...

I dunno if it's just me, but doesn't using "aforementioned" here sound a little awkward when the thing it's referencing is in the same sentence?

Erebyssial said:

I dunno if it's just me, but doesn't using "aforementioned" here sound a little awkward when the thing it's referencing is in the same sentence?

Click to expand...

I think "they" can work out in place of "the aforementioned Ghosts" if you really don't like Snorlaxe's change there. Snorlaxe's change seems alright though because a semi-colon is kinda like another sentence that's relating to the previous sentence.

kill it with fire

GP CHECK 2/2

delete
add


well done

Fate, weather (sun, rain, etc.) is not capitalized.

http://www.smogon.com/articles/grammar_standards

Thanks, changes made :) this is now done

Uploaded.