Vespiquen (Update)

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/vespiquen

[Overview]

<p>Boasting three signature moves and two base stats over 100, Vespiquen stands out among the herd of forgettable flying bugs in UU. With Pressure, Roost, and more bulk than Spiritomb, Vespiquen would seem to be a solid defensive Pokemon. Unfortunately, Bug/Flying is a terrible defensive typing with a crippling 4x Rock weakness, and Vespiquen's low Speed makes it easy for opponents to take advantage of this. Furthermore, she must compete directly for a team slot with Articuno and Moltres, both of whom have similar bulk and much higher Speed.</p>

<p>Despite these flaws, Vespiquen can still be a successful counter to some powerful UU threats. Her signature move, Attack Order, is a great STAB attack that hits several common frail sweepers hard. Furthermore, her resistances to Ground, Fighting, Bug, and Grass give her many opportunities to safely switch in and start stalling.</p>

[SET]
name: Bulky Bee
move 1: Attack Order
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Roost
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

[Set Comments]

<p>This set is the best way to take advantage of Vespiquen's above-average bulk, Pressure ability, and reliable recovery. Vespiquen can switch in on a resisted Choice attack like Earthquake, Close Combat, or Leaf Storm, forcing the opponent to switch out and giving Vespiquen the opportunity to set up a Substitute. Behind a Substitute, Vespiquen is protected from status and super effective attacks such as Stone Edge and Fire Blast, which she is able to stall out of PP by repeatedly using Substitute to abuse Pressure. If the opposing Pokemon lacks such dangerous moves, Vespiquen can hit it with Toxic and proceed to stall it out with Substitute and Roost. Slow, bulky Water-types that Vespiquen outspeeds, such as Slowbro and Quagsire, are easily defeated with this strategy if they lack Rest. Finally, Vespiquen can use her signature move, Attack Order, to counter certain frail special sweepers. Life Orb Alakazam and Choice Specs Sceptile are both OHKOed, and neither one can 2HKO Vespiquen with any of their standard attacks.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>The given EVs maximize Vespiquen's special bulk, allowing her to repeatedly switch in on special attackers who lack powerful super effective moves. HP is not maximized to prevent Vespiquen from fainting on the second switch into Stealth Rock, although Rapid Spin support is highly recommended when using Vespiquen as it will make keeping her healthy significantly easier. The remaining EVs are placed in Defense to slightly reduce the damage taken from resisted physical attacks Vespiquen may switch into.</p>

<p>Poison- and Steel-types are immune to Toxic and resist Attack Order, meaning they can just about switch into this set for free. Aggron, Toxicroak, and Drapion will all gladly come in on any move and set up while Vespiquen is forced to switch out. To discourage this, Vespiquen could run Hidden Power Ground over one of her other moves. Even with a hindering nature and no EV investment, Aggron will be easily 2HKOed and Toxicroak and Drapion are both 3HKOed, which is enough to limit a sweep and prevent further set-up if Vespiquen hits them as they switch in.</p>

<p>An easier solution is to provide Vespiquen with a Ground-type teammate who can smash Poison- and Steel-types with STAB Earthquake. Donphan can check Aggron, Toxicroak, and Drapion very well, and also provides Rapid Spin support to prevent Vespiquen from losing half of her HP each time she switches in. Vespiquen and Donphan also have good defensive synergy, as Donphan can tank Flare Blitzes and Stone Edges all day, while Vespiquen can easily switch in on Leaf Storms aimed at Donphan. Hitmontop is another reliable spinning partner for Vespiquen. He resists Rock, has solid physical defense alongside Intimidate, and can hit Steel-types hard with Close Combat. He also appreciates Vespiquen's ability to take on Psychic-types such as Alakazam and Slowbro.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>There are two things that render Vespiquen nearly useless: Stealth Rock and Pokemon who are immune to Toxic. To be successful, she will need teammates who can check or preferably remove either. Powerful Ground-types such as Donphan and Rhyperior can take care of the Poison- and Steel-types that Vespiquen can't touch, easily OHKOing threats such as Aggron and Drapion with STAB Earthquake. In return, Vespiquen is able to defeat certain bulky Waters such as Quagsire for them, and can switch in on threatening Grass-type attacks without breaking a sweat. Donphan also fills Vespiquen's other need by providing Rapid Spin support, allowing her to switch in and out without losing half of her health each time. Hitmontop is another good spinning option, sporting Intimidate and a resistance to Rock-type attacks, which allow him to easily switch into Stone Edges aimed at Vespiquen, while Vespiquen can take on Psychic-types such as Alakazam and Slowbro who would beat Hitmontop.</p>

<p>Though not a necessity, having Toxic Spikes support would allow Vespiquen to drop Toxic from her moveset, making room for another move such as Hidden Power Ground or Defend Order. Nidoqueen and Drapion are both solid choices to provide this, but Nidoqueen has the bonus of being able to hit many of Vespiquen's counters hard with Earth Power or Ice Beam. For offensive teams, Vespiquen's biggest contribution will be eliminating Slowbro or Quagsire, so Pokemon who appreciate their removal are good partners. Kabutops and Blaziken can easily power through a team once the opposing bulky Water is defeated, making them both excellent partners.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>Vespiquen's defensive stats are equal, so a physically-defensive set is possible, but it is generally less effective. The vast majority of physical attackers carry a powerful super effective Rock-, Ice-, Flying-, or Fire-type move that would prevent Vespiquen from switching in unless the opponent was locked into a resisted move. The specially-defensive set can survive nearly any resisted physical attack anyway, and allows Vespiquen to switch in on non-Choiced special attackers such as Alakazam, making it a vastly superior option.</p>

<p>Defend Order raises both of Vespiquen's defensive stats, making her Substitutes difficult to break without a super effective move and thus greatly increasing her stalling potential. It is difficult to find a moveslot for it or the time to use it during battle, though. Heal Order is a nice instant recovery move, but Vespiquen has access to Roost, which is exactly the same except it handily removes Vespiquen's nasty Flying-type weaknesses when facing slower foes like Quagsire and Steelix. Destiny Bond is difficult to use with Vespiquen's low Speed, but it lets you play some mindgames with your opponent and can possibly get a surprise KO on a Pokemon like Steelix.</p>

<p>If you're looking for alternate attacking moves, Aerial Ace and Hidden Power Flying get a STAB boost and make Vespiquen an even better check against Choiced Fighting-types. Vespiquen can use Signal Beam instead of Attack Order if she's running a Hidden Power, as that allows her to switch to a Calm nature, increasing the strength of Hidden Power, but Attack Order is more powerful and many of Vespiquen's targets are frailer on the physical side. X-Scissor and U-turn are other good physical STAB moves, but U-turn's switching effect doesn't really mesh with what Vespiquen is trying to accomplish, and X-Scissor is simply outclassed by Attack Order. Outside of her STAB attacks and Hidden Power, Vespiquen's attacking movepool is truly abysmal, so don't even think about trying an offensive set with her unless you enjoy using Sludge Bomb or Return as "coverage" moves.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Stealth Rock is a nightmare for Vespiquen, stripping off half of her HP every time she switches in. With her low Speed, she is unlikely to get the chance to recover that damage off with Roost before being KOed. If Stealth Rock is on the field, Vespiquen won't be walling anything except Choiced attackers locked into a 4x resisted move.</p>

<p>Hazardous stones aside, anything immune to Toxic and not weak to Attack Order generally has little to fear from Vespiquen. Unless she is packing Hidden Power Ground, Aggron, Drapion, and Toxicroak can all switch in and set up for free as Vespiquen is forced to switch out. Hariyama and Swellow both resist Attack Order and love switching into Toxic to activate Guts. In general, the simplest way to defeat Vespiquen is to take advantage of her low Speed. Hit her with Toxic before she gets a Substitute up, and she is instantly turned into dead weight. Stone Edge and other powerful super effective physical attacks have the same effect, only much more direct.</p>

Looks good, just a few small points:

1) I think Vespiquen needs some Speed. I'd recommend 248 HP / 176 SpD / 84 Spe so you outspeed minimum speed Chansey and Substitute before it eats you with Toxic.
2) On the topic of Chansey, mention how the easiest way to eat up Vespiquen is just to hit it with status and watch it die slowly.
3) HP Ground with a -ve nature and 0 investment is utterly useless. I'd say either deslash it or replace it with something more useful, like Defend Order.
4) Small nitpick here, but Heal Order isn't outclassed by Roost, but pretty much the same thing. You're not going to be able to decrease any Flying weakness quickly enough with 116 Speed, trust me.

You should mention Aerial Ace and HP Flying to threaten Fighting-types, as it's still a good check to them with it, choiced ones.

Wow, Vespiquen has a really pitiful movepool...

About the only things I can suggest to add to OC are Destiny Bond, U-turn, and X-Scissor. They all kind of suck on her, but they are good moves, so they at least deserve a mention.

Edit: Very nice job with this btw. Especially for your, what, eighth post? Very good.

Thanks for the comments guys.

shrang said:

Looks good, just a few small points:

1) I think Vespiquen needs some Speed. I'd recommend 248 HP / 176 SpD / 84 Spe so you outspeed minimum speed Chansey and Substitute before it eats you with Toxic.
2) On the topic of Chansey, mention how the easiest way to eat up Vespiquen is just to hit it with status and watch it die slowly.
3) HP Ground with a -ve nature and 0 investment is utterly useless. I'd say either deslash it or replace it with something more useful, like Defend Order.
4) Small nitpick here, but Heal Order isn't outclassed by Roost, but pretty much the same thing. You're not going to be able to decrease any Flying weakness quickly enough with 116 Speed, trust me.

Click to expand...

1) Good point, I changed the EVs to your spread.
2) I mentioned this in the Counters section. I'll make sure to emphasize it when I do the write-up.
3) It's situational, but I wouldn't say useless. Aggron is nearly OHKOed (81.1 - 96.8%). Drapion and Toxicroak are both 3HKOed, which isn't great, but is enough to prevent them from setting up and sweeping if you hit them on the switch. Without HP Ground, they can all switch in with absolutely no worries and get a guaranteed Rock Polish / Swords Dance / Nasty Plot. If people still think it should be deslashed then I'll move it to OC, but for now I think I'll leave it where it is.
4) Roost helps against Slowbro/Slowking's Ice Beam and Quagsire's Stone Edge or Ice Punch. I'd say that's enough to make Roost worthwhile.

Aeron Ee1 said:

You should mention Aerial Ace and HP Flying to threaten Fighting-types, as it's still a good check to them with it, choiced ones.

Click to expand...

Added to OC.

Oglemi said:

Wow, Vespiquen has a really pitiful movepool...

About the only things I can suggest to add to OC are Destiny Bond, U-turn, and X-Scissor. They all kind of suck on her, but they are good moves, so they at least deserve a mention.

Edit: Very nice job with this btw. Especially for your, what, eighth post? Very good.

Click to expand...

Added Destiny Bond and U-turn, but X-Scissor seems pointless when she has Attack Order. Did you mean Signal Beam?

And thanks, I've been lurking for a while but this is my first go at writing an analysis. Glad I didn't screw anything up too badly!

Well, no, I did mean X-Scissor, because many a noob will probably go "Oh hai, it's X-Scissor" and put that on Vespiquen without realizing that Attack Order is the superior choice. All you'd have to do is add a sentence is OC that says "Vespiquen has U-turn, X-Scissor, and Signal Beam as alternative STABs, but Attack Order is the better choice thanks to its higher Base Power, etc." Or, something of the sort, if you catch my drift.

Ah I see, I'll add that in now.

Everything looks good, I'd just de-slash HP Ground and leave it to AC of the set itself, as Sub seems to be way too important to abuse pressure, outstall stuff like CB Aggron and Rhyperior, block stats and so on. I'm not too keen on the Speed EVs to be honest, as Chansey will break your Sub with Seismic Toss and status you anyways; but I guess it's good against min Speed Donphan with Stone Edge (I'm trying hard not to do some serious speed creep here). Good job.

QC APPROVED 1/2

lol...Vespiquen

Agreeing with Bluewind, HP Ground does minimal damage (except to Aggron) with hindering nature and general bulk of stuff it might hit and Substitute is pretty much the main goal of the set (it's basically the SubRoost set of Moltres/Articuno). Also Speed EVs are really iffy, I would move them to Defense. Outspeeding min Speed base 50s aren't really helping Vespiquen more than the extra bulk would. You already lose to fast Rhyperior even with the Speed, so they're not really helping beat anything.

Also, you absolutely need to mention strong Ground-types as teammates. Donphan, Rhyperior, Torterra, etc. are practically perfect complements, destroying those Steel- and Poison-types that completely crap on this set with EQ. Donphan sticks out especially since he can spin as well.

add this to counters: everything immune to Toxic. seriously this thing is so pitiful any Steel- or Poison-type or Clefable walks all over it.

other, than that, looks good. nice job

QC APPROVED 2/2

Moved HP Ground to AC. Thanks!

Edit: And made uragg's changes. I put the EVs back to the 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD I had at the beginning, since investing in Defense seems hopeless (if she gets hit by Stone Edge or Flare Blitz she's going down anyway), but I'm still open to shifting some from SpD to Def if you think that would be more useful.

Thanks guys!

Writeup is done, ready for GP checks whenever you guys get a chance.

Changes made, thanks!

[Overview]

<p>Boasting three signature moves and two base stats over 100, Vespiquen stands out among the herd of forgettable flying bugs in UU. With Pressure, Roost, and more bulk than Spiritomb, Vespiquen would seem to be a solid defensive Pokemon. Unfortunately, Bug/Flying is a terrible defensive typing with a crippling 4x Rock weakness, and Vespiquen's low Speed makes it easy for opponents to take advantage of this. Furthermore, she must compete directly for a team slot with Articuno and Moltres, both of whom have similar bulk and much higher Speed.</p>

<p>Despite these flaws, Vespiquen can still be a successful counter to some powerful UU threats. Her signature move, Attack Order, is a great STAB attack that hits several common frail sweepers hard. Furthermore, her resistances to Ground, Fighting, Bug, and Grass give her many opportunities to safely switch in and start stalling.</p>

[SET]
name: Bulky Bee
move 1: Attack Order
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Roost
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

[Set Comments]

<p>This set is the best way to take advantage of Vespiquen's decent bulk, Pressure ability, and reliable recovery. Vespiquen can switch in on a resisted Choice attack like Earthquake, Close Combat, or Leaf Storm, forcing the opponent to switch out and giving Vespiquen the opportunity to set up a Substitute. Behind a Substitute, Vespiquen is protected from status and super effective attacks such as Stone Edge and Fire Blast, which she is able to stall out of PP by repeatedly using Substitute to abuse Pressure. If the opponent lacks such dangerous moves, Vespiquen can hit it with Toxic and proceed to stall it out with Substitute and Roost. Slow, bulky Water-types that Vespiquen outspeeds, such as Slowbro and Quagsire, are easily defeated with this strategy if they lack Rest. Finally, Vespiquen can use her signature move, Attack Order, to counter certain frail special sweepers. Life Orb Alakazam and Specs Sceptile are both OHKOed, and neither one can 2HKO Vespiquen with any of their standard attacks.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>The given EVs maximize Vespiquen's special bulk, allowing her to repeatedly switch in on special attackers who lack powerful super effective moves. HP is not maximized to prevent Vespiquen from fainting on the second switch into Stealth Rock, although Rapid Spin support is highly recommended when using Vespiquen. The remaining EVs are placed in Defense to slightly reduce the damage taken from resisted physical attacks Vespiquen may switch into.</p>

<p>Poison- and Steel-types are immune to Toxic and resist Attack Order, meaning they can just about switch into this set for free. Aggron, Toxicroak, and Drapion will all gladly come in on any move and set up while Vespiquen is forced to switch out. To discourage this, Vespiquen could run Hidden Power Ground over one of her other moves. Even with a hindering nature and no investment, Aggron will be easily 2HKOed and Toxicroak and Drapion are both 3HKOed, which is enough to limit a sweep and prevent further set-up if Vespiquen hits them as they switch in.</p>

<p>An easier solution is to provide Vespiquen with a Ground-type teammate who can smash Poison- and Steel-types with STAB Earthquake. Donphan can check Aggron, Toxicroak, and Drapion very well and also provides Rapid Spin support to prevent Vespiquen from losing half of her HP each time she switches in. They also have good defensive synergy, as Donphan can tank Flare Blitzes and Stone Edges all day, while Vespiquen can easily switch in on Leaf Storms aimed at Donphan. Hitmontop is another reliable spinning partner for Vespiquen. He resists Rock, has solid physical defense alongside Intimidate, and can hit Steel-types hard with Close Combat. He also appreciates Vespiquen's ability to take on Psychic-types such as Alakazam and Slowbro.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>There are two things that render Vespiquen nearly useless: Stealth Rock and Pokemon who are immune to Toxic. To be successful, she will need teammates who can check or preferably remove either. Powerful Ground-types such as Donphan and Rhyperior can take care of the Poison- and Steel-types that Vespiquen can't touch, easily OHKOing threats such as Aggron and Drapion with STAB Earthquake. In return, Vespiquen is able to defeat certain bulky Waters like Quagsire for them and can easily switch in on threatening Grass-type attacks. Donphan also fills Vespiquen's other need by providing Rapid Spin support, allowing her to switch in and out without losing half of her health each time. Hitmontop is another good spinning option, sporting Intimidate and a resistance to Rock-type attacks, which allow him to easily switch into Stone Edges aimed at Vespiquen, while Vespiquen can take on Psychic-types such as Alakazam and Slowbro who would beat Hitmontop.</p>

<p>Though not a necessity, having Toxic Spikes support would allow Vespiquen to drop Toxic from her moveset, making room for another move such as Hidden Power Ground or Defend Order. Nidoqueen and Drapion are both solid choices, but Nidoqueen has the bonus of being able to hit many of Vespiquen's counters hard with Earth Power or Ice Beam.</p>

<p>Vespiquen's biggest contribution to an offensive team will be eliminating Slowbro or Quagsire, so Pokemon who appreciate their removal are good offensive partners. Kabutops and Blaziken can easily power through a team easily once their bulky Water is defeated, making them both excellent partners.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>Vespiquen's defensive stats are equal, so a physically-defensive set is possible, but it is generally less effective. The vast majority of physical attackers carry a powerful super-effective Rock, Ice, Flying, or Fire-type move that would prevent Vespiquen from switching in unless the opponent was locked into a resisted move. The specially-defensive set can survive nearly any resisted physical attack, anyway, and allows Vespiquen to switch in on non-Choiced special attackers such as Alakazam, making it a vastly superior option.</p>

<p>Defend Order raises both of Vespiquen's defenses, making her Substitutes difficult to break without a super effective move and thus greatly increasing her stalling potential. It is difficult to find a moveslot for it or the time to use it during battle, though. Heal Order is a nice instant recovery move, but Vespiquen has access to Roost, which is exactly the same except it handily removes Vespiquen's nasty Flying-type weaknesses when facing slower foes like Quagsire and Steelix.</p>

<p>Aerial Ace and Hidden Power Flying get a STAB boost and make Vespiquen an even better check against Choiced Fighting-types. Vespiquen can use Signal Beam instead of Attack Order if she's running a Hidden Power, as that allows her to switch to a Calm nature, increasing the strength of Hidden Power, but Attack Order is more powerful and many of Vespiquen's targets are frailer on the physical side. X-Scissor and U-turn are other good physical STAB moves, but U-turn's switching effect doesn't really fit with what Vespiquen is trying to accomplish, and X-Scissor is simply outclassed by Attack Order. Destiny Bond is difficult to use with Vespiquen's low Speed, but it lets you play some mindgames with your opponent and can possibly get a surprise KO on something like Steelix.</p>

<p>Outside of her STAB attacks and Hidden Power, Vespiquen's attacking movepool is truly abysmal, so don't even think about going on the offensive with her unless you enjoy using sets with Sludge Bomb or Return as "coverage" moves.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Stealth Rock is a nightmare for Vespiquen, stripping off half of her HP every time she switches in. With her low Speed, she is unlikely to get the chance to recover that damage off with Roost before being KOed. If Stealth Rock is on the field, Vespiquen won't be walling anything except Choiced attackers locked into a 4x resisted move.</p>

<p>Hazardous stones aside, anything immune to Toxic and not weak to Attack Order generally has little to fear from Vespiquen. Unless she is packing Hidden Power Ground, Aggron, Drapion, and Toxicroak can all switch in and set up for free as Vespiquen is forced to switch out. Hariyama and Swellow both resist Attack Order and love switching into Toxic to activate Guts.</p>

<p>Perhaps the simplest way to defeat Vespiquen is to take advantage of her low Speed. Hit her with Toxic before she gets a Substitute up, and she is instantly turned into dead weight. Stone Edge and other powerful super effective physical attacks have the same effect, only much more direct.</p>

Click to expand...

Great write-up; I found hardly any errors at all. Just want to note that "super effective" has no hyphen, as per how it is displayed in-game.

GP Check 1/2

Changes made, and thanks for the "super effective" tip, I never realized that.

This is always my biggest thing, but do you think you could squish the Team Options and OC into 2 paragraphs and the Counters section into 2 as well? It makes the write-up as a whole more aesthetically pleasing and it flows a little better.

GP CHECK 2/2

blue is additions
red is removals



SUPERB analysis, very few changes to be made here, and most of them are subjective. promising new writers like you are what smogon wants to see, so please don't hesitate to stick around and contribute more in the future!

Made Snorlaxe's changes and squashed the TO/OC/Counters paragraphs as best as I could. Thanks everyone!

Great job with this. Just next time, don't forget to CAPS Lock SET COMMENTS and ADDITIONAL COMMENTS.

Uploading.