Tropius (Update)

Tropius
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/tropius

I am Spanish, so sorry if my English isn't very good. I have to thank Flashrider57 because he has helped me.

Stamps:

QC Approvals: 2/2

(Bluewind) (Folgorio)

QC Rejections: 0/2

GP Checks: 2/2

(Oglemi) (bugmaniacbob-Komodo)

[Overview]

<p>Tropius isn't a great Pokemon; his offensive stats aren't very good, and his Speed is poor. His defenses are decent, but they're undermined by his terrible defensive typing, being weak to Stealth Rock, as well as Fire-, Flying-, Poison-, and especially, Ice-type attacks. However, Tropius can be a force to be reckoned with in UU, as he has access to many good attacking and support options. He resists Fighting-type moves, and is immune to Earthquake. He has two great abilities to abuse Sunny Day with in Solar Power and Chlorophyll. All in all, Tropius isn't fantastic, but it can a good choice on teams that benefit from its particular traits.</p>

[SET]
name: Physically Defensive
move 1: Roost
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Energy Ball
move 4: Air Slash / Whirlwind
item: Leftovers
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Tropius's defenses are actually very good, making Tropius quite difficult to KO even with a super effective attack. Roost is used to recover HP while also removing some of Tropius's weaknesses. Toxic is a fantastic support option, and this Tropius can use it effectively thanks to his bulk. Energy Ball and Air Slash are good offensive options, and give Tropius something do to should he get Taunted, but Whirlwind is a very useful phazing attack that isn't rendered useless against Pokemon with the ability Soundproof.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread given maximizes Tropius's ability to tank hits. He is able to take an Ice Beam from defensive Milotic, and not be 2HKOed by a maximum Attack Donphan's Ice Shard, provided Stealth Rock is not on the field. Scenarios such as these are all very common, therefore, Rapid Spin support will greatly help Tropius perform his tanking duties. Steel- and Poison-type Pokemon wall this set badly, because they are immune to Toxic. Registeel, Weezing, Steelix, and Muk are examples of Pokemon that resist this set perfectly. For these two reasons, Donphan makes a great teammate for Tropius, as he can switch in on most Rock-, Steel-, and Poison-types, and threaten them with his STAB Earthquake. He is also able to use Rapid Spin quite effectively.</p>

<p>If you are using Whirlwind, entry hazards on your opponent's side will be greatly beneficial. Toxic Spikes support from Pokemon like Nidoqueen or Qwilfish is also awesome, as it frees up a moveslot for Tropius. Stealth Rock support is also recommended as it is for every other Pokemon in the game. Omastar is an awesome partner to supply entry hazards including Stealth Rock, as he resists many of Tropius's weaknesses, while Tropius helps to cover those of Omastar.</p>

<p>Substitute can be used to protect Tropius from status and provide a buffer against incoming attacks. Tropius's Substitutes are also quite sturdy due to his good defenses and HP, but with Tropius's Speed, you won't be able to avoid poison and other negative status, effectively halving its potential uses. You can also use Leech Seed in this set instead of one of the attacking moves to drain your opponent's HP, especially when Tropius is behind a Substitute. With Sunny Day support, Tropius's Speed will double thanks to Chlorophyll, effectively making Substitute a viable option. Unfortunately, without any Speed investment, Tropius still fails to outspeed max Speed positively natured base 80s, such as Venusaur, and neutral natured base 90s, such as Moltres.</p>

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Leaf Blade
move 3: Aerial Ace / Roost
move 4: Earthquake
item: Life Orb
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With Swords Dance, Tropius becomes a fearsome sweeper if Sunny Day is up. Leaf Blade's power after a Swords Dance is awesome, OHKOing almost every Pokemon that don't resist it. After a Swords Dance, Aerial Ace always OHKOes Scyther and destroys most Venusaur and Meganium after Stealth Rock damage. Roost is also a viable option to recover HP thanks to Tropius's great bulk. Earthquake OHKOes Magneton and Aggron, and 2HKOes Steelix after a Swords Dance.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Sunny Day Support is needed for this set to succeed as it allows Tropius to reach 402 Speed, which is enough to outspeed +2 Aggron, +2 Rhyperior, Alakazam, and Dugtrio. Uxie, Clefable, Jumpluff, Chansey, and Porygon2 are all great partners to provide Sunny Day support. If Sunny Day isn't up, Tropius still outruns Adamant Aggron and Tangrowth and can attack them with Earthquake or Aerial Ace.</p>

<p>This Tropius isn't outclassed by other Chlorophyll Swords Dance users such as Victreebel and Shiftry. They both are more powerful, but Tropius is much bulkier than them and has access to Earthquake, Roost, and STAB Aerial Ace to deal with other Grass-types. It can be a good addition to your Sunny Day team if you want a bulky Pokemon that can boost its Attack stat.</p>

<p>Rapid Spin support is something you must remember to include when using Tropius. Blastoise is a fantastic teammate for Tropius, as he resists Fire- and Ice-Type attacks and can also use Rapid Spin. Like all offensive Pokemon, entry hazards are fantastic to net Tropius more KOs. Omastar is a great teammate for Tropius because it can take Fire-, Poison-, Ice-, and Flying-type attacks with ease; he can also set up all the entry hazards.</p>

[SET]
name: Solar Power
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: SolarBeam / Energy Ball
move 3: Air Slash
move 4: Hidden Power Fire
item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
ability: Solar Power
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 8 Def / 252 SpA / 248 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>If Sunny Day is up, this Tropius's Special Attack raises to 546 with Choice Specs (600 with a Modest Nature). Leaf Storm will OHKO a lot of Pokemon, such as Milotic, Lanturn, Slowking, Regirock, and Slowbro. SolarBeam is a great attack on a Sunny Day Sweeper, and it's more reliable than Leaf Storm. However, if the sun fades, Energy Ball is much better since it doesn't require a charging turn. Air Slash is a good secondary STAB, and it's great against Grass-types such as Venusaur and Tangrowth, almost always OHKOing them with the Solar Power boost. It's also your best bet against Flash Fire Pokemon such as Houndoom and Arcanine. In the sun, Hidden Power Fire 2HKOs 252 HP / 252 SpD Registeel and Regice after Stealth Rock damage, if you use Life Orb.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Don't use this set without Sunny Day support, as it would then be outclassed by many other offensive Pokemon, especially by Venusaur and Moltres. Mesprit, Moltres, and Clefable are good options to set Sunny Day up. Stealth Rock support is also very important, as it allows Tropius to score some more KOs.</p>

<p>To show you the strength of this Tropius, here are some damage calculations assuming you are running a Timid Nature and Life Orb, and Sunny Day is up:</p>

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 116 SpD +Special Defense nature Spiritomb: 76% - 89.8%</li>
<li>Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD neutral nature Uxie: 67.8% - 79.9%</li>
<li>Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD neutral nature Mesprit: 79.4% - 94%</li>
<li>Leaf Storm vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD +Special Defense nature Chansey: 32.9% - 38.8%</li>
<li>SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD neutral nature Milotic: 100%</li>
<li>SolarBeam vs. 212 HP / 252 SpD +Special Defense nature Slowking: 90.6% - 106.8%</li>
<li>SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD +Special Defense nature Regirock: 100 %</li>
<li>SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 116 SpD +Special Defense nature Spiritomb: 65.1% - 77%</li>
<li>SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD +Special Defense nature Steelix: 68.9% - 81.4%</li>
<li>Air Slash vs. 136 HP / 252 SpD +Special Defense nature Tangrowth: 94.4% - 110.9%</li>
<li>Air Slash vs. 216 HP / 144 SpD neutral nature Meganium: 91.3% - 108.2%</li>
<li>Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD +Special Defense nature Venusaur: 64.3% - 75.8%</li>
<li>Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD +Special Defense nature Steelix: 79.7% - 94.4%</li>
<li>Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD +Special Defense nature Registeel: 44.5% - 52.7%</li>
<li>Hidden Power Fire vs. Magneton: 100%</li>
</ul>

<p>The EV spread lets Tropius outspeed Jolly Aggron, neutral nature 0 Speed Rotom and most defensive Pokemon. If you are running a Modest nature, you will not be able to outspeed the aforementioned Aggron and Rotom, neutral max Speed Torterra, and Cacturne, but Tropius will be much more powerful, being able to OHKO Spiritomb with Leaf Storm for example. If using a Modest nature, run 252 EVs in Special Attack and in Speed.</p>

<p>Remember that Solar Power Tropius is very slow, and Flamethrower or Ice Beam can ruin you. Because of this, you can Baton Pass Agility to him from Pokemon like Ambipom and Lopunny; paralysis support can be good too. If you use Chlorophyll as the ability, Tropius will be much quicker, but he will also lose a lot of power, and as his offensive stats aren't good enough to outright sweep teams, leaving him outclassed by other special Sunny Day sweepers.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Tropius has a few more options, but they are generally worse than the options that have been listed. One of these options is Dragon Dance, which is a great move that Tropius can't use properly. Dragon Dance Tropius can't use any good STAB attacks, as Leaf Blade and Dragon Dance are illegal together, so you would then have to rely on Razor Leaf (Tropius doesn't learn Seed Bomb) and Aerial Ace, which aren't strong enough. Apart from Sky Attack, Fly is the strongest STAB attack that Dragon Dance Tropius can use.</p>

<p>Return can be used in physical sets because it's your best bet against Swellow, Weezing, Altaria, and Moltres. Outrage is an okay option, but Tropius doesn't like getting locked into one attack and then confused on top of it. You can use Synthesis instead of Roost because it recovers more HP when Sunny Day is up, but it doesn't remove any of Tropius's weaknesses. A Curse set with Curse, Leaf Blade, Earthquake, and Aerial Ace / Roost can work, especially under Trick Room effects. Growth can also be used in the Solar Power set to boost Tropius's Special Attack, but Tropius is too slow to use it effectively. Tropius can also set up Sunny Day by himself, but that isn't recommended, because Tropius needs his coverage to succeed and losing a turn setting up Sunny Day can result in Tropius's end.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Weezing counters Tropius pretty well, thanks to its resistance to Grass-type attacks and immunity to Earthquake and Toxic. He can also attack with Fire Blast and STAB Sludge Bomb, or burn physical-based Tropius with Will-O-Wisp. Fire-types can switch into a Grass-type attack and hit Tropius with super effective attacks. Moltres is also immune to Earthquake, and can defeat Tropius with STAB Air Slash and Fire Blast. Other Fire-type Pokemon, such as Typhlosion, Houndoom, and Magmortar, can switch in a predicted Grass-type attack and kill Tropius, but they must be wary of Earthquake. Altaria is bulky enough to take many hits, and can Roar Tropius away from its Substitute or Swords Dance boosts, and then Roost off any damage from Tropius's attacks. Muk is a great counter to special Tropius, as he resists Grass-type attacks, and can attack with STAB Gunk Shot or Fire Punch.</p>

<p>Steel- and Poison-type Pokemon such as Registeel, Steelix, Bastiodon, Muk, Venusaur, and Swalot are almost immune to the defensive set because they take very little damage from Tropius's attacks and are immune to Toxic. Venusaur is also immune to Leech Seed and can attack Tropius with a super effective Sludge Bomb. Swalot's ability, Liquid Ooze, ruins Leech Seed as well. Glaceon is also a good counter because it can take a hit and OHKO Tropius with STAB Ice Beam. Clefable is also great, as defensive Tropius literally can't do anything to it. Tropius also hates status, especially poison, so if you have a bulky Toxic inducer not named Quagsire nor Gastrodon, you'll win. As Tropius's offensive stats are lackluster, especially without any investment, many Pokemon can survive his attacks.</p>

<p>Finally, Stealth Rock is also very harmful for Tropius. Losing 25% of HP when he switches in is something that breaks Tropius defensive capabilities.</p>

Dragon Dance + Leaf Blade is illegal. You have to use Razor Leaf or something, which sucks.

Run 252 Speed and 248 Attack, as a DD with 248 Speed doesn't let you outspeed Jolly Hitmonlee on 300 Speed? Max speed also outspeeds 8 Speed Milotic on 200 without the sun

since DD is massively neutered by the loss of Leaf Blade, move it down to the 3rd/4th set and make SD the first.

Roost should at least be slashed on the SD IMO. Tropius has decent bulk, and he should probably take advantage of that.

I think Tropius makes a better Toxic SubRooster, rather than a Phazer. So, imo, you should replace Whirlwind with Toxic in the Defensive set, and add Whirlwind to AC. Tropius basically acts the same as Moltres and Articuno, with the exception of not being totally molested by Stealth Rock. I would also suggest adding Energy Ball as the main attack, as that way Tropius can effectively threaten Water-types like Milotic and Slowbro, who normally carry Ice Beam and would have an easy time getting rid of Tropius. Tropius has a hard time dealing with Fire-types and Registeel anyway, so it's not like it's missing Air Slash all that much. The only real Pokemon that Tropius would miss Air Slash is against Blaziken, Toxicroak and company.

Just my opinion, but it comes down to QC in the end.

I have been editing. Thank you all for posting!

I am bumping this.

Why mention that Hidden Power Fire hits Venusaur and Meganium, when Air Slash hits harder?

Also, why mention Meganium at all?

Darkamber8828 said:

Why mention that Hidden Power Fire hits Venusaur and Meganium, when Air Slash hits harder?

Also, why mention Meganium at all?

Click to expand...

Hidden Power Fire is better when Sunny Day is up. I changed that sentence and put:" It also destroys Venusaur and Tangrowth if Sunny Day is up."

I helped alonso out with this update a bit before he posted it, so I therefore have to post here. I don't see many problems with the Swords Dance and Solar Power sets. Also, I have to admit that Oglemi was right about Tropius being a better Toxic SubRooster than a phazer. For those who were wondering, the Defensive set was kinda my idea. I also take blame on forgetting that Leaf Blade and Dragon Dance are illegal. Since Tropius's best STAB options with Dragon Dance are Aerial Ace and Razor Leaf, I'm now a little skeptical about the Dragon Dance set. Aerial Ace could cut it on the Swords Dance set, but when your STAB moves are weaker than the non-STAB moves, even with the STAB boost, the set starts to become questionable. I really hate to admit it, but I'm starting to think that Dragon Dance should be an OC mention, due to the lack of powerful moves. As for set options, I think that the Defensive set should come first, because Tropius's great defenses and resistances just can't be ignored. Afterwards should come the Swords Dance set, then the Solar Power set, and finally the Dragon Dance set (if it stays).

BTW, the analyses are supposed to be presented in a skeleton format when going through QC, and once they pass through QC, then you write up the analysis. I'm pretty sure that QC will be fine with the written-up format here, but I'm just making a note for future use. Great first analysis!

So you think that the Dragon Dance Set should be in OC... I don't know what to do with it now. I'll be waiting for more opinions.

And about the orders of the sets, I would like to get more opinions too.

Thanks for posting Flashrider57.

I agree with Flashrider.

It should go:

Defensive
SD
SunnyDay

and DD to OC. Having Razor Leaf and Aerial Ace as your STABs suck, and frankly, Tropius has the other sets it should be doing. Just because he got a cool move doesn't mean he can use it.

EDIT: And Chlorophyll should be slashed next to Solar Power in that set. Tropius can make use of both, and I'd rather have a fast Tropius than a slightly stronger one.

Complete theorymon here, but defensive with Roost sounds like the best way to go with DD Tropius (if DD is even worth keeping) since it's weak as hell with shitty STABs. Maybe something like DD / Roost / Razor Leaf / Earthquake @ 252 HP / 48 Atk / 208 Spe Adamant is worth looking into?

I think the defensive set should look something more like this:

name: Defensive
move 1: Roost
move 2: Leech Seed / Toxic
move 3: Air Slash / Energy Ball
move 4: Substitute / Whirlwind
item: Leftovers
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

I don't see why you'd ever want to drop Roost. Reliable recovery is something that should be taken advantage of (especially on "bad" pokemon), and it's the only other Grass-type other than Cradily which has access to it. Whirlwind should get a main slash imo because a) it's something Jumpluff and other Grass-types can't do, b) means it isn't walled by Registeel (without Leech Seed), Venusaur (without Air Slash) and basically anything with Substitute, and c) phazing is just a great tool to have.

Just some things to think about.

Get rid of the Dragon Dance set. Tropius has been blessed with decent bulk along with huge base HP and using a fully offensive set that cannot even OHKO Milotic after 1 dragon dance is pathetic. Not to mention you hit 302 Speed after a DD and no priority..

Calcs:
+1 Razor Leaf vs 248/252 Bold Milotic 53.9% - 64.1%
+1 Razor Leaf vs 252/252 Bold Blastoise 50.3% - 59.7%
+1 Razor Leaf vs 252/0 Adamant Donphan 56.3% - 66.1%

These are just a few, I see you OHKO LO Venusaur after a Dragon Dance and Arcanine(although after Intimidate you fail to and Mixed Arcanine will still outspeed you anyhow).

Alonsoforever said:

Hidden Power Fire is better when Sunny Day is up. I changed that sentence and put:" It also destroys Venusaur and Tangrowth if Sunny Day is up."

Click to expand...

Actually, Air Slash still hits harder even in the sun, Air Slash has a higher base power than HP Fire, and they both get the equivalent of a STAB boost.

@ Erebyssial - I actually feel that Toxic should get the slash over Leech Seed because Tropius isn't going to get past Poison and Steel-types anytime soon anyway, and Leech Seed leaves Tropius utterly susceptible to Grass-types (Venusaur still shits on Tropius but whatever). I like the rest of the slashes though.

Sorry I haven't been able to come here, I have had a lot of exams. I have been editing. I changed the order of the sets in this way:

Defensive - Swords Dance - Solar Power - (Dragon Dance)

I don't know what to do with the Dragon Dance set. I think I'll test it some more times, and will post logs here.

Thank you all for the comments!

Everything has been said I suppose. Remove Dragon Dance and in all the sets with a 4 HP EVs spread, remove them and pour them in defenses, as 4 EVs give you 340 HP, which increases both LO and SR damage. I'd make the main nature of the Solar Power set Timid as well; you're tying with Milotic atm (remember, HP Fire drops your Speed to 200) and you beat a much higher number of Pokemon (Modest Omastar, Exeggutor, Torterra, Aggron, Lanturn, speedy Blastoise, some Mesprit etc etc). So yeah, remove DD, HP EVs on Solar Power and SD sets and make the SP set Timid / Modest. With that said:

I made the changes and removed the Dragon Dance set. I have been trying it, but it is bad. It can't sweep.

Thank you Bluewind.

EDIT: I have got a grammar question. When talking about Tropius, which pronoun should I use, he or it?

I think you can use both of them (there's an agreement regarding genders though IIRC, so some Pokemon should go by she and others by he), but you cannot use the two of them in the same write-up; you have to choose one only and stick to it. Using "it" is usually recommended, as it applies to every Pokemon. Again, I'm not sure of this.

k uh well i really think sub is a complete waste of a moveslot on defensive tropius. It doesn't really do the subroost strategy well because it has virtually no speed, which means subbing on status becomes very hard, it has a bad stab, which is ridiculously easy to wall with only 1 attack move, and lastly no pressure which means it can really outlast stone edges and whatnot.

So what i propose is removing sub in the defensive set and instead putting air slash as the main option there. Venusaur+heracross+blaziken+scyther+toxicroak just laugh at that set and are all very common pkmn and you dont really wanna give them free switches. Air slash is nice stab and it helps you hit all those would-be switches.

edit: tldr: roost+toxic+energy ball+air slash/whirlwind is what i think is best


anyway yeah assuming you change that everythin else looks good:

Why not make a combo of the Defensive and Swords Dance sets?

name: Defensive Dancing
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Leaf Blade
move 3: Roost
move 4: Earthquake / Return
item: Leftovers
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 24 Atk / 220 Def / 12 Spe

The Speed EVs are for out speeding standard Azumarill and the Attack EVs are for OHKOing Azumarill 100% of the time with Leaf Blade after a Swords Dance, with Rocks down. Earthquake is for Registeel and friends, and Return is for weakened Moltres, Altaria, Weezing etc...

Thank you for the approval Folgorio, I made the changes and mentioned Substitute in AC. I'll be waiting for the GP Checks.

Shnoogle, have you tested that set? Is it good enough? With Tropius' weaknesses, your opponent will usually switch into something that outruns Tropius and has Ice Beam or Flamethrower. and with that set Tropius isn't able to outspeed most Aggron.

I'm no official checker but I'll take a look :)



Changes in Blue
Deletions in Red
Comments in bold

I tried to get rid of as much bad English as possible and get rid of any uneccessary fluff, there may be more to look at for other checkers. You may also need to expand on your short paragraphs or merge them too ^^

I think that roost is a definite plus due to removing the quadruple ice weakness and rock weakness. Air slash has I believe only 70 base power and is not paired well offensively with grass only. On sets Chlorophyll would be better since double speed is needed ,and Tropius needs all the Hp it can get.

Name
Play in the Sun
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Timid
~ Roost
~ Air Slash
~ Hidden Power Fire
~ Solarbeam

Moveset EVs: 68 HP/ 6 Def/ 184 SpA / 252 Spe