4th Gen Fat Dragon sweeps!

Hi smogon! Im a first time poster, long time reader and this is my first RMT here. It peaked at 1567/49233 at Pokemon Online 4th gen OverUsed and is right now hovering at around 4000ish. Granted im still fairly new to competitive pokemon seeing that I started december last year, and Im very happy with my team's progress. This team is pretty stall-y but I just like to wear my opponents down just enough for my dragonite to sweep.

Without further ado here is my team building process:

I wanted to build a team around my favorite and all around awesome pokemon, dragonite.



Next I needed a fast pokemon that could setup rocks and that could stop my opponent from setting his/her up, so taunt aerodacytl is who I came up with.



Seeing that dragonite has a HUGE weakness to ice and stealth rocks, I needed either a rapid spinner that could resist ice attacks, or a wish passer. I was first thinking about wish passing vap, but I saw jirachi and the potential of parahax and paraflinch was just too good to pass up and he and dragonite have a good defensive synergy so in comes jirachi.



Next I wanted a bulky water pokemon because..well..because almost everyone HAD one and they do come in handy to add another resist to dragonite's 4x ice weakness. I choose suicune not only because its awesome but the term bulky water defines suicune.



So I had my sweeper and jirachi to support the team. I wanted another pokemon that could be a good defensive synergy to suicune because sometimes a crit thunderbolt screws me over. I picked shaymin because of that and I just love annoying the hell out of people with the subseed set.



So im looking at my team, I had pretty much everything covered, ( I think. Bear in mind that I am still noobish~ ) I just wanted to finish off a FWG core. I picked heatran because I liked his typing of steel/fire, giving me another set of resistances. Yes I know I now have 2 weaknesses to ground, but so far I dont have that much problem with it.



And finally after some recommendations, I went and replaced my lead from aerodactyl to a trick scarf/SR azelf, and changed the sets of my shaymin and heatran.




Here's another look at my current team:





In Depth analysis of each pokemon:


Azelf @ choice scarf
Levitate. Naive. 100atk / 156sAtk / 252 speed

Trick
Stealth Rocks
Psychic
Explosion

My new lead. Split ev's in atk and satk so my explosion could get that extra oomph, scarf is there so I could get a gauranteed rocks up, or a sure trick depending on the situation. Synergy's not that important because my old lead dactyl dies after turn 4 most of the time anyway.


Shaymin @ leftovers
Natural Cure. Calm. 252HP / 96def / 156sAtk / 4sdef

Seed Flare
Hidden Power [Fire]
Protect
Leech Seed

Offensive leech seed set. Yes the ev spreads are quite weird and new, but it works for me. Seed flare for STAB. Also used as a status absorber.
I changed my old sub seed set to a more offensive set recommended by Requiem 9. Works a lot better than my old set because now I'm not setup fodder for forretress/scizor, and sub seed actually wore my shaymin down in some cases.
Most of the time I use the leech seed to force a safe switch to dragonite or heatran or suicune, depending on the threat and to scout my opponent's team. Most of the time they dont stay in after a seed, and if they do I just stall them or switch to someone else. Shaymin is a safe switch for attacks aimed at my heatran, being able to take a EQ or surf and Seed flare back or setup on the switch.


Suicune @ leftovers
Pressure. Bold. 252HP / 100def / 156sdef

Rest
Sleep Talk
Calm Mind
Surf

Bulky Cro-Cune. I just love this set. With my EVs I could still survive a explosion on full health, rest and be healthy again. Also being used as a sleep fodder.
Instead of going for a 252def spread I wanted to spread my ev's around def and sdef so I dont really need to calm mind to survive a few STAB t-bolts. At +2 this thing becomes a beast, surviving CRIT STAB LO THUNDERBOLT from a 252satk zapdos! I use suicune as a switch to a predicted ice beam to dragonite and shaymin, and surf to heatran. Basically suicune is one of my defensive glues to the team.


Heatran @ leftovers
Flash Fire. Modest. 244HP / 44sdef / 220speed

Flash Cannon
Substitute
Earth Power
Lava Plume

Offensive sub set. My old set was torment tran, but after a few considerations I changed it to a more offensive set. It works wonders against most pokemon with lava plume/flash cannon as stab, and earth power for opposing heatran/fire types. I'm actually having trouble with the attacks, since I haven't used a offensive heatran in a while, so I could really use some help on this set.
In terms of synergy, heatran is really the weak link of my team, being weak to some common attacks such as earthquake, dynamic/mach/focus punch and surf, but I think I have a pretty good enough coverage for him, and he does pack quite a punch. He's a safe switch to ice beams directed to shaymin and dragonite, as well as being immune to poison attacks.


Jirachi @ leftovers
Serene Grace. Impish. 252HP / 160def / 64sdef / 32spe

Wish
U-turn
Thunder Wave
Iron Head

Wish parahax/para flinch jirachi. Wish for healing teammates and spreading around paralysis with t-wave, iron head for flinch and STAB, U-turn for safe wish passing.
ParaHax jirachi is such a good supporter and provides a good synergy with my sweeper, dragonite. Resists dragon and ice attacks, but weak to EQ which explains the def evs and nature, but if I know I cant survive it, I switch to shaymin or dragonite.


Dragonite @ lum berry
Inner Focus. Adamant. 240HP / 68atk / 184def / 16spe

Dragon Dance
Dragon Claw
Roost
Fire Punch

I call it my ultra bulky DDnite. Call me crazy, but I just prioritize defense over offense. With 2 DDs anyway I get 400spd ( am I right on this? ) enough to outspeed most things and getting 2DDs off isn't that hard to do with my bulky stats. Dragon Claw for STAB and fire punch for steels. I picked dragon claw over outrage so I won't be locked in and I dont really like getting confused with 500+atk :(

So there's my team. I decided to post it here so I could see the real weak points of my team seeing that I'm still new to the competitive scene, as well as getting other suggestions on making it better and stronger.

Pokemon that were in my team:


Aerodactyl @ focus sash
Pressure. Jolly. 252atk / 252spe / 6HP

Stealth Rock
Taunt
Rock Slide
Earthquake

Aerodactyl's role is to stop my opponent to setup rocks, set his rocks, and then hide until later in case I need a taunter. Rock Slide over Stone Edge because of the accuracy issues, and for stab. EQ for damage. He does well and sometimes could take out 2 (!) of my opponent's pokemons before he goes out. I am a bit unorthodox when I see a lead that is weak to my attacks (lead 'nape/ttar) and EQ right off the bat THEN rocks, which most of the time comes out good. Not much else to say about 'dactyl.


So here's a last look at my team, and thank you for reading my RMT :)

Focusing on your Heatran, it's best to note that the key to using a Torment-Tran effectively is to stealthily trick multiple Choice Scarfs onto opposing Pokemon that Torment-Tran would otherwise fail against, such as stat-boosting Snorlax or even someone with the same Suicune set you have now. With a scarf, Pokemon who would have otherwise used Heatran as bait will have to kick themselves when they realize that without that Pokemon's freedom to switch moves, there's not much they can do against it.

Your Jirachi, for example, is a good candidate for tricking a scarf, and even without Thunder Wave, you can still be cheap with Iron Head anyway. On top of that, consider replacing your lead Aerodactyl with a trickscarfing Azelf. With two opportunities to set a Pokemon up for Torment Tran, Heatran goes from being your weakest link, to one of your strongest members.

Also, consider using Earthquake over Fire Punch for Dragonite. While Fire Punch can handle Skarmory and Bronzong, it may be worth just opting against Fire Punch, considering that Skarmory will phaze you out regardless of Fire Punch and Heatran can usually switch in very easily against both of them.

Looking at your team, I'm wondering why you're using Torment Tran. I meant, it's fun to make people rage as they absolutely can't kill it, but at the same time, it doesn't really advance a Dragonite sweep at all. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "switch in on an Ice Beam and Torment so Dragonite can set up", because Torment doesn't work like that. On the Torment -- with Starmie, for instance -- the other player can just Surf and kill your Heatran while still having the freedom to use Ice Beam to kill your Dragonite. Torment Tran is about forcing switches with a lot of hazards up, while your team doesn't lay. Secondly, I see no reason why you're using Aerodactyl. Dragonite is the only pokemon on your team that's weak to SR, and you're using a bulky set with Roost. Aerodactyl should be used exclusively on offensive teams heavily weak to SR: with at least two pokemon that take 25% from it, probably frail. There's an easy fix to both these problems: I would recommend moving Heatran to the lead position and giving it an offensive set with Stealth Rock. At the end of DPPt, this set was really trendy:

Heatran (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 172 HP/84 Spe/252 SpA
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Overheat
- Hidden Power Grass
- Explosion

This Heatran beats most common leads with a powerful Overheat -- notably OHKOing Machamp -- and uses its offensive pressure to set up Stealth Rocks. It won't get them up as consistently as Aerodactyl, but it'll kill a pokemon or two along the way and rocks aren't absolutely essential for a team like this one.

Next, I'd fix the moves on your Shaymin. As is, pokemon like Forretress come in and set up for free, and your team's not a big fan of Spikes or SR; Shaymin itself isn't going to enjoy Toxic Spikes either. Similarly, Subseeding can really wear Shaymin down, considering how opposing Grass types like Roserade and offensive Shaymin threaten yours, prevent it from recovering, and force you to switch (since you can't do anything back). Synthesis remedies this to an extent, but it's horribly unreliable given how common Sandstorm is. I'd recommend this Shaymin instead:

Shaymin @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 76 SAtk / 180 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Seed Flare

This Shaymin fills much the same niche as yours: it's a defensive pokemon that wears down the opposing team. However, you'll notice that it's far more difficult to set up against this set given HP Fire, and U-turners like Flygon and Scizor won't wear you down for free with Protect. The speed makes it faster than Adamant Lucario -- a Timid nature is an option if you'd like to outspeed Jolly, though it doesn't seem the biggest deal against this team -- a useful benchmark that yours doesn't hit (I don't get what the speed on yours is for, actually). The SpA gives its HP Fire a bit more of a bite against Skarmory.

Next, although this is largely a matter of preference, I'd change your Crocune to an offensive variant. Offensive variants don't last as along and, unlike Crocune, will rarely flat win you games, but with the large number of grass types and trickscarfers in this metagame, Crocune just a dead weight too much of the time. Ice Beam is important to hit grass switchins, and it could serve as a secondary sweeper.

Lastly, I'd replace the removed Aerodactyl with some sort of scarfer. For instance, it doesn't seem like much on your team really stops Kingdra from setting up, at which point it can sweep your team. A Flygon would work here, although it would make your team weaker to ice attacks. Rotom-W is a solid choice as well, although it would rely on Trick to stop a lot of threats. Creative ones like Starmie work too: the actual pokemon is pretty secondary here, since your FWG core means your Scarfer be making as few appearances as possible.

I hope some of this helps.

Thanks for the advice

Thanks for the advices guys, they really do help and it helps me view my team's strengths and weaknesses clearer.

Also, consider using Earthquake over Fire Punch for Dragonite. While Fire Punch can handle Skarmory and Bronzong, it may be worth just opting against Fire Punch, considering that Skarmory will phaze you out regardless of Fire Punch and Heatran can usually switch in very easily against both of them.

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True skarm might just phaze me out with roar/whirlwind but most of the time I outspeed skarmory and score a fire punch (at +3, my punch scores a 70-80% damage on skarmory anyway) bronzongs are not that scary, and I lived a couple of bronzong explosions at full health (yes. with around 6 to 10~% hp ) and at +3 dragon claw most of the time does about 50% to heatran for a 2HKO with the help of life orb damage on them. Plus fire punch is a nice surprise for scizor/forretress switch-ins.

I see no reason why you're using Aerodactyl. Dragonite is the only pokemon on your team that's weak to SR, and you're using a bulky set with Roost. Aerodactyl should be used exclusively on offensive teams heavily weak to SR: with at least two pokemon that take 25% from it, probably frail.

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With this in mind, I actually just threw it in because it's the only lead I have right now that I could actually use in HG wifi, im considering putting in a lead scarf azelf though like this:


Azelf @ choice scarf
Levitate. Naive. 100atk / 156sAtk / 252 speed

Trick
Stealth Rocks
Psychic
Explosion

Split ev's in atk and satk so my explosion could get that extra oomph, scarf is there so I could get a gauranteed rocks up, or a sure trick depending on the situation. Synergy's not that important because my old lead dactyl dies after turn 4 most of the time anyway.

I'm wondering why you're using Torment Tran. I meant, it's fun to make people rage as they absolutely can't kill it, but at the same time, it doesn't really advance help Dragonite sweep at all. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "switch in on an Ice Beam and Torment so Dragonite can set up", because Torment doesn't work like that. On the Torment -- with Starmie, for instance -- the other player can just Surf and kill your Heatran while still having the freedom to use Ice Beam to kill your Dragonite.

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I was a bit sleepy when I typed that part but there are instances that I could switch on the turn they cant ice beam, setup a DD to outspeed them next turn, and roost to get rid of my flying type, leaving me to survive a ice beam/punch, DD again and attack with a +2 dragon claw. It did happen, although not that often.

I cant really risk putting in a scarf flygon in my team because along with dnite and shaymin I would have 3 pokemons weak to ice, something that I might not handle well.

Anyway, I will try your ideas on the shaymin set, since most of the time I do end up wearing down my shaymin with constant sub seeding and cure my problem of my shaymin being setup fodder for scizors and forrtress.

I also like your offensive heatran set but I will likely replace the rocks with substitute seeing as I would try lead azelf, but as for suicune, I just love the set. I might try a rest talking variant with surf and ice beam but I feel I'll miss the bulky-ness of my old set too much.


Thanks for the criticism and insightful advices guys, and thank you!

Small point but Jirachi should have u-turn as thunderpunch is pretty much useless and it passes wishes much easier. It also lets you escape from Magnezone. I have to agree with the Shaymin posted by Requiem9 cause your shaymin is just bad. First Sandstrom completely ruines the recovery of Synthesis. Also one attacking move leaves you very vunerable. I have also never been a big fan of Cro-cune. I would recommend a more offensive suicune. Something like this:

Suicune @ Leftovers
Timid Evs: 4Hp/252 spAtk/252Speed
-Calm Mind
-Surf/ Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-HP Electric

This Suicune is way more powerful as after 1 or 2 CM, it destroys almost everything. Surf is the Natural STAB while Hydro Pump is for more power. Ice Beam is for those Grass and dragon pokemon that resist Surf while HP Electric is almost excusively for Gyarados. It is also pretty bulky even without investment

Small point but Jirachi should have u-turn as thunderpunch is pretty much useless and it passes wishes much easier. It also lets you escape from Magnezone.

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Yeah I actually had u-turn in it but I never really had problems with magnezone though..but yeah I'll change it.

Update:

I used a new shaymin and heatran set, and I changed my lead from 'dactyl to azelf, please check out the new sets, thanks again for the criticisms :)

This is my first rate but I see a huge mixape weakness if it has HP (Ice) it hit's SE on all your team apart from azelf, which will explode in early game. You also seem to lack a revenge killer so replace suicune with.. Choice specs starmie! Here's the set.

Starmie @ Choice specs
Natural cure
Timid
252 SPA, 252 SPE, 4 HP
Hydro pump/ Surf
Ice beam
Thunderbolt
Trick

This will fix your infernape problems and get you a great revenge killer. Sorry if the advice is bad, It's my first rate :3

This is my first rate but I see a huge mixape weakness if it has HP (Ice) it hit's SE on all your team apart from azelf, which will explode in early game.

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So far 'nape hasn't been a trouble for me, and 252sAtk LO'ed grass knot on my suicune hovers around 45-55%, and I can attack with surf for 84-100% damage which most of the time KOs with LO recoil. If they switch in on my 'cune with even just one calm mind, grass knot does 30%, and my surf goes to 120-140%. Most of them dont even run HP ice anyway (atleast not the ones i've encountered) and most of them are lead 'napes that run CC,fire blast,rocks and grass knot/hp electric.

Okay well this is my first rate in a while, but I feel I may be able to offer a little help.
If you were to face a smart player utilizing a Vaporeon/Gliscor core, you are pretty much ruined. If Azelf has already exploded, you will be in for a horrible battle. Vappy can completely wall Suicune and with roar, can be a pain. Also your dragonite will have lots of trouble with Gliscor if it hasn't gotten more than one DD.
If may, I would suggest a Special MixApe over Heatran.

Infernape@Life Orb
Blaze
64 Atk, 196 SpA, 252 Spe
Naive
-Fire Blast
-Grass Knot
-Hidden Power[ICE]
-Close Combat

This will largely put a dent in most defensive cores. It also fits in with your FWG core, so it should work just fine.

Yeah I really don't like your current sub heatran. Flash Cannon is a horrible move on it and even though you are modest natured, you have any special attck evs. I would recommend a choice scarf heatran over it because it is an excellent revenge killer. Here's the set:

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Naive Evs: 4Atk/252 spAtk/ 252 speed
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-Explosion
-Dragon Pulse/ HP Grass

Fire Blast is for obvious STAB which is very powerful and can severly many pokemon that don't resist it and not named Blissey or Snorlax. Earth Power is for pokemon that resist Fire Blast such as Tyranitar, opposing Heatran, Infernape, Empoleon and Tentacruel. Explosion is a surprise for Blissey and Snorlax that think they could switch on a special attack. The last slot is up to personal preference. Dragon Pulse is for the dragons of ou and hits many pokemon neutralizing while HP Grass is almost solely for Swampert.
I would also change the nature on Shaymin to Modest and maybe invest about 40 evs into speed to outspeed the pokemon that hover around the 245 speed mark.