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Abilities Analysis: Intimidate lowers the target's attack allowing it to take physical hits and Mold Breaker allows it to get past Sturdy, Multiscale, Fluffy. Mega Evolution: The type changing upon Mega evolution changes its weaknesses which is quite useful. Gyarados loses its Ground immunity, rock weakness and 4x weakness to electric turns 2x upon mega evolving and gains Psychic and Prankster immunity. Stats: 155 Atk lets it knockout a lot of pokemon effortlessly without any boosts, 109 Def + Intimidate combo and 130 SpD lets it take multiple hits. Moves: Mega Gyarados has a pretty awesome movepool giving it coverage, stats boost and other status moves.
Dragon Dance: Provided with nice bulk it allows it to set up, Raises Attack and Speed by 1 stage.
Waterfall: 80 Base Power water type move for STAB output.
Outrage: To KO Dragon types and pokemon which resist it's other moves.
Earthquake: For coverage, SE against Electric, Poison, Steel
Substitute: Prevents from status moves and helps in scouting.
Taunt: Prevents the target to set up/use any status move.
Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake/Crunch
- Outrage
- Waterfall
Other Option: 140 EVs investment in Def lets it survive 2 Fusion Bolt from Kyurem-Black after intimidate
Common Pokemon it defeats most of the time
Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y, Kyurem-Black, Greninja, Mega Metagross, Mega Pinsir,All Sturdy and Lv1 Pokemon (Crustle 50/50), Deoxys-Defense, Dragonite, Mega Garchomp, Mimikyu, Aegislash, Jirachi (if it doesn't flinches 7 times lol), Magnezone, Landorus, Nihilego, Necrozma, Victini, Heatran, Keldeo, Mew, Pheromosa, Mega Sableye, Xurkitree.
Refuerzo 's Haban Berry Kyurem-Black set catches Mega Gyarados by surprise 252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Haban Berry Kyurem-Black: 149-176 (38.1 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 177-208 (53.4 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Outrage
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt
This one is not that common
Crustle, Max Def and HP Magearna, Meloetta, Mega Blastoise, Bewear, Genesect
With monstrous stats, set of abilities and typing along with the departing of several megas in Gen 7 and its Dark typing being immune to Prankster, Mega Gyarados emerges out as a huge threat in the metagame which has to be considered while teambuilding.
PS: My first post in 1v1! Feel free to tell me how can I improve Thanks!
Doesn't this go in the other thread? Not that I mind. Looks good.
To be honest, I'd just clean up some stuff and add a little more detail. Don't theorymon, actually calc stuff or actually play the match-ups. Gyarados isn't 50/50 vs Crustle for example. If it runs Taunt, it always wins. Which is kind of a 50/50 (since you have to actually be running Taunt when people are actually using Crustle), but if it often beats Magnezone, then it definitely often beats Crustle, since Magnezone can run a set that never loses to Gyarados and Crustle can't. Mega-Pinsir beats Mega-Gyarados, that's one of the main reasons it's good. I'd also point out in the descriptions that Earthquake is pretty much only for Magnezone, now that Mega-Mawile is gone. I think this helps people decide what to run. In 1v1, you add moves to beat certain pokemon, not just because they're strong.
Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Outrage
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt
This one is not that common
I second that. With the large amount of Pokemon not available at the start of this generation, removing species clause would only expand the meta. Besides, all Pokemon outright lose to some other Pokemon, so its not in the least broken. 1v1 could use a bit more fair and open creativity.
Tapu Koko used Gigavolt Havoc! Gyarados-Mega avoided the attack! The opposing Gyarados-Mega used Splash!
But seriously, species clause?
Also, charizard8888, Mold Breaker also helps against Unaware o-o
Can we please ban subseed whimsicott XD its not broken but it turns into a coin flip unless you have a pokemon that can out speed with proirity and knock it out in one go
Can we please ban subseed whimsicott XD its not broken but it turns into a coin flip unless you have a pokemon that can out speed with proirity and knock it out in one go
Whimsicott doesn't need to be outsped at all, you just need to have a pokemon that can either kill it in one hit (most steel/fire/poison moves) or prevent it from using its Prankster subseed (Taunt, Dark Types, Infiltrator, Uproar). Whimsicott has plenty of counters and has its place in the metagame, even if it's annoying to fight.
Kyurem-Black @ Icium Z
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Freeze Shock
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Iron Head
This team has been decently successful, giving me a 60-70% win rate or so. Porygon-Z destroyed the low ladder, since no one prepared for Adaptability Hyper Beam. Icium Z Kyub is pretty great as well, dealing a ridiculous amount of damage with Subzero Slammer and generally taking a hit if necessary. I've also found Specs Koko to be very useful, as Specs Thunderbolt OHKOs or 2HKOs a vast majority of the meta.
Unfortunately the team loses to things like Scarf Jirachi, Mega Metagross, and I have no good answer to Mega Venusaur. I'm still pretty new to the gen 7 meta, but I've been enjoying it quite a bit. Any suggestions on how to improve the team in order to better handle those threats would be sweet.
With the Dark Void nerf, Darkrai fell from god-tier to shitty NP sweeper in ubers. While it’s probably still too strong for OU, I believe that it’s no longer broken in 1v1. A key 1v1 policy for if something is broken is if it beats half the meta or has very few true counters, it’s broken. I’ll be analyzing which things Darkrai can and cannot beat in the meta (I'll be using S-B ranked pokemon) using the following sets which I believe would become standard if Darkrai was unbanned. Hypnosis might also be seen from time to time, but it would generally be a less effective Gengar. Note that I have played out it's matchup vs all of the pokemon and done calcs. If you want to see a calc or think I did something wrong, tell me.
Darkrai @ Choice Specs
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Roar of Time
- Thunderbolt
- Sludge Bomb
Darkrai @ Choice Specs
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Roar of Time
- Sludge Bomb
- Psychic/Thunderbolt
Win: Mega Gyarados, Mega Charizard X, Mega Slowbro, Aegislash, Landorus Incarnate, Whimsicott
Lose: Mega Charizard Y, Crustle, Magearna, Tapu Koko, Greninja, Mega Pinsir, Donphan, Dragonite, Meloetta, Mimikyu, Mega Venusaur, Chansey, Genesect, Kartana, Jumpluff, Primarina, Tapu Fini
Sometimes Beats: Tapu Lele, Black Kyurem, Porygon-Z, Mega Metagross, Deoxys-Defense, Magnezone, Garchomp, Mega Gengar, Jirachi, Togekiss
Win: Mega Charizard X, Greninja, Mega Metagross, Mega Pinsir, Mega Slowbro, Garchomp, Jumpluff, Landorus Incarnate, Whimsicott
Lose: Mega Charizard Y, Crustle, Magearna, Porygon-Z, Tapu Koko, Deoxys Defense, Donphan, Dragonite, Meloetta, Mimikyu, Aegislash, Chansey, Genesect, Primarina, Tapu Fini
Sometimes Beats: Mega Gyarados, Black Kyurem, Magnezone, Mega Venusaur, Kartana, Mega Gengar, Jirachi, Togekiss, Tapu Lele
As you can see, it's more advantageous set is the speedy variant, so let's go with that. It can reliably beat 9/33 of all of these pokemon, and counting the "Sometimes Beats" category as half a win, it reaches a win ratio of 13.5/33, which is considerably less than half of the metagame. In my opinion, Darkrai deserves a suspect test.
I'd like to bring up a pokemon that was almost unbanned last generation, but however did not because of a 15/15 split in the suspect test. This pokemon could be exceptionally important as we head to our new Mega Mawile Meta later this month. That beauty is of course, Blaziken. Here is a post from DEG during the suspect test as reference of what Blaziken offered and of course diminished about the ORAS meta it was tested in.
If you don't want to read at all, I'll summarize. Blaziken has strong and powerful Fire/Fighting STAB in Flare Blitz and High Jump Kick, or if Special Overheat. Blaziken would always run Protect just like how Gyarados-mega always runs Dragon Dance. It's fourth move slot option was very debatable with coverage options like Stone Edge, Thunder Punch, HP Ice, and Swords Dance. It could even potentially run Sub/Reversal.
Furthermore, it had the markings of an S-rank pokemon. Beating many deal of lower ranked pokemon and required always bringing a check like Slowbro-Mega, Deoxys-D, or Dragonite, as well as numerous sets to power through other pokemon. So, what pushed it over the edge? What made it too good for 15 people to vote no unban? From what I can gather, it's raw power practically guaranteeing it a slot in the S rank as well as the many 50/50s caused by it. Will it go for protect or for HJK or maybe Swords Dance?
In my opinion, it's very similar to Gyarados-Mega. +1 Gyarados-Mega and Life Orb Blaziken do very similar amounts of damage as shown below with their most powerful attacks on a Primeape. They both have very similar base speeds 81 vs 80, and rely on a move to boost their speed, Dragon Dance and Protect. They both have good coverage options to let them pick and choose they're counters.
Damage Output:
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primeape: 433-511 (159.7 - 188.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primeape: 370-436 (136.5 - 160.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I want to go through our current SuMo meta and see where Blaziken would fall. Looking at our current viability rankings:
Now before you go through all of the calcs that I present to you, I would like to bring up how I approached these. First and foremost, I assumed that both players knew which set the other was running and played optimally after that. This makes very little differences against and with Blaziken, but nonetheless it is worth mentioning. Secondly I assumed two main sets for Blaziken. A 252 Adamant Life Orb set with Protect, Flare Blitz, High Jump Kick, and either Thunder Punch or Stone Edge or a 252 Adamant Life Orb SubRev set with Protect, Substitute, Reversal, and Flare Blitz. I did not consider Overheat as I find it irrelevant. I did not consider Z-moves as that would triple the length and work for not much more information.
Instead I will provide a cost benefit analysis here for the use of Z-moves.
Flare Blitz has an effective BP of 156. High Jump Kick has an effective BP of 169. Inferno Overdrive has a BP of 190. All-out-pummeling has a BP of 195. Therefore, when using Firium-Z, Fire STAB increases by 21.7%. When using Fightinium-Z, Fighting STAB increases by 15.4%. All other moves, decrease in power by 23.1%. To KO with Inferno Overdrive over, Flare Blitz must do at least 82.1%. To KO with All-Out-Pummeling, High Jump Kick must do a minimum of 86.7%. In order for a coverage, or alternate STAB move to KO without LO, it must do 130% minimum.
Swords Dance isn't typically taken into consideration as Blaziken's frailty doesn't give it much opportunity to set-up. However, Swords Dance can provide Blaziken useful power against Stall Pokemon.
Gyarados-Mega
This match-up is very prediction based if Blaziken carries Thunder Punch. If it doesn't then it really can't win.
Without Tpunch: -1 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 237-281 (71.6 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
With Tpunch
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 359-426 (108.4 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO OR -1 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados-Mega: 138-164 (41.6 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO OR -1 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 354-421 (106.9 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Gyara with Waterfall
252+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 372-440 (123.5 - 146.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(Note: My suggested Bulk 88/80 lowes Tpunch's KO Chance to 62.5%)
Charizard-Mega-X
This match-up: Even with Stone Edge, this match is in Charizard's favor.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 268-317 (90.2 - 106.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 339-400 (112.6 - 132.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This can also lead to some interesting 50/50s whether the or not Blaziken will go for protect turn 1. If it does and Charizard predicts with DDance to outspeed afterwards, Blaziken has to either risk the 1 in 3 double protect or go for the attack on a faster Zard X. Even then Blaziken would only KO 3/8 of the time. Whereas Zard X can easily KO regardless.
(Not a Protect/Sub/Reversal set shifts the outcome in to Blaziken's favor, but keeps the 50/50 of DDance our Outrage on Protect or Substitute respectively)
Charizard-Mega-Y:
With Stone Edge, this is an easy victory for Blaziken. Without, Thunder punch is a 50% chance and CharY could take it. SubReversal is practically useless.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 273-322 (91.9 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 723-853 (243.4 - 287.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Blast Burn vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken in Sun: 314-369 (104.3 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Crustle:
Crustle easily OHKOs Blaziken with Z-Rock Wrecker and Rock Wrecker and thanks to Sturdy Blaziken can't get around it.
252+ Atk Crustle Rock Wrecker vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 309-364 (102.6 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Kyurem-Black:
If KyuB runs Scarf, it can win. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Blaziken can rely on the double protect to win however.
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 321-378 (106.6 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 881-1037 (225.3 - 265.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Magearna: Blaze wins
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 468-554 (128.9 - 152.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Porygon Z:
Similar match up with Kyurem-B. A Scarf
Porygon Z has a favorable match-up as Blaziken would have to rely on a Double Protect to outspeed.
Tapu Koko:
This an easy match-up for Tapu Koko regardless if it runs Modest or Timid (or physical). With Timid it outspeeds even after +1 from Blaziken, with modest it survives Blaziken's Flare Blitz and then OHKOs.
252 SpA Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken in Electric Terrain: 490-577 (162.7 - 191.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken in Electric Terrain: 291-343 (96.6 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 234-276 (83.2 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
SubReversal wouldn't do the trick either.
Greninja:
Scarf and Waterium-Z Hydro Cannon + Water Shuriken favors Greninja even against SubReversal. If not, then Blaziken.
-2 252 SpA Greninja Hydro Vortex (200 BP) vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 186-222 (61.7 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Greninja Water Shuriken (15 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 168-204 (55.8 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Greninja Hydro Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 560-660 (186 - 219.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 395-465 (138.5 - 163.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Metagross-Mega:
Blaze wins.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Metagross-Mega: 374-439 (124.2 - 145.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Pinsir-Mega:
This favors Blaziken, however, a Bulk Up or Swords Dance + quick attack would force 50/50s as if Pinsir-Mega might predict the protect and go for swords dance or it might predict the attack then and go for giga impact.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir-Mega: 452-533 (166.7 - 196.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 356-422 (118.2 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Slowbro-Mega
I'm not going to answer this and you can't make me.
Tapu Lele:
Psychium-Z and Choice Scarf Tapu Lele can make quick work of Blaziken. Although, Choice Scarf would have to rely on Blaziken not getting the double Protect.
-2 252+ SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 320-378 (106.3 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 650-768 (215.9 - 255.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 335-395 (119.2 - 140.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Deoxys-D
Like most things, Blaziken has to get a crit. Fuck Crits.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-Defense: 136-161 (44.8 - 53.1%) -- 30.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. +1 248 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-Defense: 91-109 (30 - 35.9%) -- 37.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. +2 248 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-Defense: 68-82 (22.4 - 27%) -- 24.9% chance to 4HKO
Etc.
Donphan:
Blaze stands no chance unless it run SubReversal
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 226-266 (58.8 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 246-290 (64 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 452-534 (150.1 - 177.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Dragonite:
Dragonite can easily take 2 STAB hits and respond after it Dragon Dances. Or it could kill with Devestating Drake, Supersonic Skystrike, or it could be Weakness policy if Blaziken uses Stone Edge.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 74-88 (19.1 - 22.7%) -- possible 6HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 149-175 (38.6 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 155-182 (40.1 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Z-move
-6 252+ Atk Dragonite Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 117-138 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-6 252+ Atk Dragonite Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 216-254 (71.7 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 131-155 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
Note: A good blaziken that is carrying Stone Edge could go for a HJK on a Weakness policy and then follow-up with a Stone Edge. This has a chance of working on Bulky Dragonite above, and is much better on Fast Dragonite. Of course, the prediction could also end in Dragonite's favor if it clicks EQ instead of Dragonite.
Garchomp:
Garchomp's got this easy
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 298-351 (83.4 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 438-516 (145.5 - 171.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Magnezone:
Electrium-Z, Weakness Policy, and Choice Specs easily beat Blaziken, however Choice Scarf would lose
252 SpA Magnezone Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 405-477 (134.5 - 158.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 394-465 (130.8 - 154.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 361-426 (119.9 - 141.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Magnezone Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 241-285 (80 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Meloetta:
Again the scarf vs specs match-up. Scarf wins. Specs loses. Double protect wins.
252 SpA Meloetta Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 390-462 (129.5 - 153.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 352-417 (103.2 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mimikyu:
Fairium-Z and Ghostium-Z Mimikyu would win. Are there even other Mimikyu sets?
252 Atk Mimikyu Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 297-349 (98.6 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 237-280 (78.7 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 67-81 (22.2 - 26.9%) -- 27.9% chance to 4HKO
Venusaur-Mega:
Venusaur-Mega easily wins as it can just synthesize off protects.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Thick Fat Venusaur-Mega: 187-221 (51.5 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Aegislash:
This may seem like a 50/50 but Aegislash should win especially when considering the faster (blaziken's) protect would fail and Aegislash's won't.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 374-439 (115.4 - 135.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-2 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 187-221 (57.7 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-4 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 127-151 (39.1 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-6 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 94-112 (29 - 34.5%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 390-459 (129.5 - 152.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Chansey:
You have one guess.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 759-897 (107.9 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Genesect:
Blaziken wins regardless of scarf or specs
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 1097-1300 (387.6 - 459.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Genesect Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 187-220 (62.1 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Kartana Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 307-362 (101.9 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 832-988 (321.2 - 381.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Gengar-Mega:
If Gengar-Mega carries psychic or hits hypnosis it wins.
If Blaziken is Jolly or gets double protect, it wins.
252 SpA Gengar-Mega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 322-380 (106.9 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Gengar-Mega Hex (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 348-411 (115.6 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar-Mega: 320-376 (122.1 - 143.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Jirachi:
Gets rekt
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jirachi: 530-624 (155.4 - 182.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Jumpluff:
With Speed Boost, the SubSeed combo becomes impossible after 2 turns.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jumpluff: 704-829 (241.9 - 284.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Landorus-I:
It's a coin toss. Unless Lando is scarfed (is that a thing?) then it's a 1/3 followed by a coin toss for Blaziken's win
252+ SpA Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 516-608 (171.4 - 201.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 289-341 (90.5 - 106.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Primarina:
I'm going to be honest. I have no fucking clue what Primarina runs. I think Primarina wins? Here's a bunch of calcs
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 283-335 (94 - 111.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 283-335 (77.9 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Primarina Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 318-374 (105.6 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-6 252+ SpA Primarina Oceanic Operetta vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 230-272 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tapu Fini:
Tapu Fini wins? Idk what it runs. It probably wins.
252 SpA Tapu Fini Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 390-458 (129.5 - 152.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Fini: 198-234 (70.4 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Togekiss:
So, if I'm not mistaken Togekiss is either bulky with twave and air hax or it's Scarf with air hax.
Bulky air hax loses to protect - > stone edge - > stone edge unless parahax on last stone edge. Scarf with air hax requires speed tie against timid or beats adamant.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 309-364 (82.8 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 312-368 (103.6 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Whimsicott:
Occa berry variants win. Other berry variants lose
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Occa Berry Whimsicott: 231-274 (71.5 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Whimsicott: 463-549 (143.3 - 169.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Celesteela:
Blaziken wins
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Celesteela: 408-484 (102.7 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Golem:
Golem wins thanks to sturdy.
252+ Atk Golem Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 452-534 (150.1 - 177.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Nihilego:
Blaziken wins regardless of Nihilego's item.
252+ SpA Nihilego Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 190-225 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Nihilego: 519-612 (144.5 - 170.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Necrozma:
Necrozma wins
252 SpA Necrozma Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 390-458 (129.5 - 152.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma: 263-309 (78.5 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Rhyperior:
Rhyperior wins although not against Sub/Reversal
0 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 384-452 (127.5 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 528-622 (121.6 - 143.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 345-406 (79.4 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Tapu Bulu:
Blaziken wins
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 468-554 (136.4 - 161.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Sawk:
Choice Band (?) win Choice Scarf loses. Adamant Sawk gives a coin toss.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sawk: 363-426 (124.7 - 146.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Sawk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 255-300 (84.7 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sawk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 280-330 (93 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Victini:
Vicitini should win.
252 Atk Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 290-344 (96.3 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 320-378 (106.3 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Reversal (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 220-259 (64.5 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Blastoise-Mega:
Sub/Reversal wins but standard loses
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blastoise-Mega: 246-290 (82.2 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Reversal (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blastoise-Mega: 376-445 (125.7 - 148.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Blastoise-Mega Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 396-468 (131.5 - 155.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Heatran:
Blaze wins
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 546-642 (141.4 - 166.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Keldeo:
Keldeo usually loses to standard, but has a small chance to win.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 313-370 (96.9 - 114.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 480-566 (159.4 - 188%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mew:
Genesis Supernova wins
252 SpA Mew Genesis Supernova vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 678-798 (225.2 - 265.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 265-312 (77.7 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Pheromosa:
Jolly Pheromosa relies on a coin toss unless it uses Fightinium-Z. +1 Jolly Blaziken will Outspeed Adamant Pheromosa.
252 Atk Pheromosa Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 271-321 (90 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Pheromosa All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 430-507 (142.8 - 168.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 1032-1217 (364.6 - 430%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Sableye-Mega:
Blaziken can't OHKO, so Sableye-Mega can win with Metal burst, but not foul play.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sableye-Mega: 220-259 (72.3 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Sableye-Mega Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 107-126 (35.5 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Scizor-Mega:
Blaziken wins
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor-Mega: 608-717 (177.2 - 209%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Aron: (Aron is currently ranked C, but I'm not reviewing C and C- as no notable pokemon really are in C and C-. I do however still want to bring up Blaziken vs FEAR
Theoretically, Blaziken could beat FEAR with will-o-wisp, but I doubt many Blaziken will carry that.
If you do not wish to skim through each spoiler, which I surely understand, here is a summary.
Pokemon Blaziken Beats:
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Pokemon Blaziken Loses to:
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Pokemon Blaziken 50/50 in game:
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Pokemon Blaziken 50/50 in teambuilder:
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50/50 in game refers to coin tosses or predictions. 50/50 in team builder refers to set choices usually Scarf or not for other pokemon and Sub/Reversal for Blaziken.
So now, after carefully reading all of that and thinking about everything that I just mentioned you're probably wondering "Lost Heros, was it worth it? Is Blaziken being banned really that important to you?" Well, obviously yes. I don't think Blaziken should ever have been banned. If it's default state was "legal" rather than "banned" it would have been allowed last generation and this generation. Furthermore, it gives more variety to the metagame. So many top-tier pokemon are bulky offensive pokemon like Gyarados, and CharX. Blaziken is a simple, straightforward attacker which are sorely lacking as of now, and definitely would have a place in the metagame. It is by no means broken and doesn't cause many 50/50s in-game especially with the introduction of Z-moves which damage past protect. Because of all this, I would at least like to have a Blaziken suspect test later this month preferably.
koko hits fricken hard i will have to do calcs to find out how hard but it seems like it just has a win button if a koko is on the team i instantly lose and i don't know how to fix it without a ground type
koko hits fricken hard i will have to do calcs to find out how hard but it seems like it just has a win button if a koko is on the team i instantly lose and i don't know how to fix it without a ground type
Here's a few common pokemon who can beat Koko:
-Offensive Dragon Dance Charizard X
-Continental Crush Crustle
-Scarf and Specs Black Kyurem
-Scarf Porygon-Z
-Donphan
-Dragonite
-Garchomp
-Mirror Coat Magnezone
-Shadow Sneak+Z-STAB Mimikyu
-Mega Venusaur
Hope that helps!
With the Dark Void nerf, Darkrai fell from god-tier to shitty NP sweeper in ubers. While it’s probably still too strong for OU, I believe that it’s no longer broken in 1v1. A key 1v1 policy for if something is broken is if it beats half the meta or has very few true counters, it’s broken. I’ll be analyzing which things Darkrai can and cannot beat in the meta (I'll be using S-B ranked pokemon) using the following sets which I believe would become standard if Darkrai was unbanned. Hypnosis might also be seen from time to time, but it would generally be a less effective Gengar. Note that I have played out it's matchup vs all of the pokemon and done calcs. If you want to see a calc or think I did something wrong, tell me.
Darkrai @ Choice Specs
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Roar of Time
- Thunderbolt
- Sludge Bomb
Darkrai @ Choice Specs
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Roar of Time
- Sludge Bomb
- Psychic/Thunderbolt
Win: Mega Gyarados, Mega Charizard X, Mega Slowbro, Aegislash, Landorus Incarnate, Whimsicott
Lose: Mega Charizard Y, Crustle, Magearna, Tapu Koko, Greninja, Mega Pinsir, Donphan, Dragonite, Meloetta, Mimikyu, Mega Venusaur, Chansey, Genesect, Kartana, Jumpluff, Primarina, Tapu Fini
Sometimes Beats: Tapu Lele, Black Kyurem, Porygon-Z, Mega Metagross, Deoxys-Defense, Magnezone, Garchomp, Mega Gengar, Jirachi, Togekiss
Win: Mega Charizard X, Greninja, Mega Metagross, Mega Pinsir, Mega Slowbro, Garchomp, Jumpluff, Landorus Incarnate, Whimsicott
Lose: Mega Charizard Y, Crustle, Magearna, Porygon-Z, Tapu Koko, Deoxys Defense, Donphan, Dragonite, Meloetta, Mimikyu, Aegislash, Chansey, Genesect, Primarina, Tapu Fini
Sometimes Beats: Mega Gyarados, Black Kyurem, Magnezone, Mega Venusaur, Kartana, Mega Gengar, Jirachi, Togekiss, Tapu Lele
As you can see, it's more advantageous set is the speedy variant, so let's go with that. It can reliably beat 9/33 of all of these pokemon, and counting the "Sometimes Beats" category as half a win, it reaches a win ratio of 13.5/33, which is considerably less than half of the metagame. In my opinion, Darkrai deserves a suspect test.
This is probably something I could get behind if I only read through the post and probably not at the moment. The metagame should be headed into a different direction then unbanning Pokemon at the moment, if something should be done about balancing I'd rather go with the banning road at this moment. You have mentioned two sets that you think are going to only be usable while the userbase is more creative than that and will find a thousand sets that will push Darkrai over the limit. Hypnosis combined with Bad Dreams chips away damage and making it dependent on sleep rolls beating more Pokemon. Furthermore, the addition of Z-moves might be the key to Darkrai success in 1v1. Well, we can't know unless we test the Pokemon but for now I don't think we really need to do so.
I'd like to bring up a pokemon that was almost unbanned last generation, but however did not because of a 15/15 split in the suspect test. This pokemon could be exceptionally important as we head to our new Mega Mawile Meta later this month. That beauty is of course, Blaziken. Here is a post from DEG during the suspect test as reference of what Blaziken offered and of course diminished about the ORAS meta it was tested in.
If you don't want to read at all, I'll summarize. Blaziken has strong and powerful Fire/Fighting STAB in Flare Blitz and High Jump Kick, or if Special Overheat. Blaziken would always run Protect just like how Gyarados-mega always runs Dragon Dance. It's fourth move slot option was very debatable with coverage options like Stone Edge, Thunder Punch, HP Ice, and Swords Dance. It could even potentially run Sub/Reversal.
Furthermore, it had the markings of an S-rank pokemon. Beating many deal of lower ranked pokemon and required always bringing a check like Slowbro-Mega, Deoxys-D, or Dragonite, as well as numerous sets to power through other pokemon. So, what pushed it over the edge? What made it too good for 15 people to vote no unban? From what I can gather, it's raw power practically guaranteeing it a slot in the S rank as well as the many 50/50s caused by it. Will it go for protect or for HJK or maybe Swords Dance?
In my opinion, it's very similar to Gyarados-Mega. +1 Gyarados-Mega and Life Orb Blaziken do very similar amounts of damage as shown below with their most powerful attacks on a Primeape. They both have very similar base speeds 81 vs 80, and rely on a move to boost their speed, Dragon Dance and Protect. They both have good coverage options to let them pick and choose they're counters.
Damage Output:
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primeape: 433-511 (159.7 - 188.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primeape: 370-436 (136.5 - 160.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I want to go through our current SuMo meta and see where Blaziken would fall. Looking at our current viability rankings:
Now before you go through all of the calcs that I present to you, I would like to bring up how I approached these. First and foremost, I assumed that both players knew which set the other was running and played optimally after that. This makes very little differences against and with Blaziken, but nonetheless it is worth mentioning. Secondly I assumed two main sets for Blaziken. A 252 Adamant Life Orb set with Protect, Flare Blitz, High Jump Kick, and either Thunder Punch or Stone Edge or a 252 Adamant Life Orb SubRev set with Protect, Substitute, Reversal, and Flare Blitz. I did not consider Overheat as I find it irrelevant. I did not consider Z-moves as that would triple the length and work for not much more information.
Instead I will provide a cost benefit analysis here for the use of Z-moves.
Flare Blitz has an effective BP of 156. High Jump Kick has an effective BP of 169. Inferno Overdrive has a BP of 190. All-out-pummeling has a BP of 195. Therefore, when using Firium-Z, Fire STAB increases by 21.7%. When using Fightinium-Z, Fighting STAB increases by 15.4%. All other moves, decrease in power by 23.1%. To KO with Inferno Overdrive over, Flare Blitz must do at least 82.1%. To KO with All-Out-Pummeling, High Jump Kick must do a minimum of 86.7%. In order for a coverage, or alternate STAB move to KO without LO, it must do 130% minimum.
Swords Dance isn't typically taken into consideration as Blaziken's frailty doesn't give it much opportunity to set-up. However, Swords Dance can provide Blaziken useful power against Stall Pokemon.
Gyarados-Mega
This match-up is very prediction based if Blaziken carries Thunder Punch. If it doesn't then it really can't win.
Without Tpunch: -1 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 237-281 (71.6 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
With Tpunch
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 359-426 (108.4 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO OR -1 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados-Mega: 138-164 (41.6 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO OR -1 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 354-421 (106.9 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Gyara with Waterfall
252+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 372-440 (123.5 - 146.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(Note: My suggested Bulk 88/80 lowes Tpunch's KO Chance to 62.5%)
Charizard-Mega-X
This match-up: Even with Stone Edge, this match is in Charizard's favor.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 268-317 (90.2 - 106.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 339-400 (112.6 - 132.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This can also lead to some interesting 50/50s whether the or not Blaziken will go for protect turn 1. If it does and Charizard predicts with DDance to outspeed afterwards, Blaziken has to either risk the 1 in 3 double protect or go for the attack on a faster Zard X. Even then Blaziken would only KO 3/8 of the time. Whereas Zard X can easily KO regardless.
(Not a Protect/Sub/Reversal set shifts the outcome in to Blaziken's favor, but keeps the 50/50 of DDance our Outrage on Protect or Substitute respectively)
Charizard-Mega-Y:
With Stone Edge, this is an easy victory for Blaziken. Without, Thunder punch is a 50% chance and CharY could take it. SubReversal is practically useless.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 273-322 (91.9 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 723-853 (243.4 - 287.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Blast Burn vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken in Sun: 314-369 (104.3 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Crustle:
Crustle easily OHKOs Blaziken with Z-Rock Wrecker and Rock Wrecker and thanks to Sturdy Blaziken can't get around it.
252+ Atk Crustle Rock Wrecker vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 309-364 (102.6 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Kyurem-Black:
If KyuB runs Scarf, it can win. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Blaziken can rely on the double protect to win however.
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 321-378 (106.6 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 881-1037 (225.3 - 265.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Magearna: Blaze wins
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 468-554 (128.9 - 152.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Porygon Z:
Similar match up with Kyurem-B. A Scarf
Porygon Z has a favorable match-up as Blaziken would have to rely on a Double Protect to outspeed.
Tapu Koko:
This an easy match-up for Tapu Koko regardless if it runs Modest or Timid (or physical). With Timid it outspeeds even after +1 from Blaziken, with modest it survives Blaziken's Flare Blitz and then OHKOs.
252 SpA Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken in Electric Terrain: 490-577 (162.7 - 191.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken in Electric Terrain: 291-343 (96.6 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 234-276 (83.2 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
SubReversal wouldn't do the trick either.
Greninja:
Scarf and Waterium-Z Hydro Cannon + Water Shuriken favors Greninja even against SubReversal. If not, then Blaziken.
-2 252 SpA Greninja Hydro Vortex (200 BP) vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 186-222 (61.7 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Greninja Water Shuriken (15 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 168-204 (55.8 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Greninja Hydro Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 560-660 (186 - 219.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 395-465 (138.5 - 163.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Metagross-Mega:
Blaze wins.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Metagross-Mega: 374-439 (124.2 - 145.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Pinsir-Mega:
This favors Blaziken, however, a Bulk Up or Swords Dance + quick attack would force 50/50s as if Pinsir-Mega might predict the protect and go for swords dance or it might predict the attack then and go for giga impact.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir-Mega: 452-533 (166.7 - 196.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 356-422 (118.2 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Slowbro-Mega
I'm not going to answer this and you can't make me.
Tapu Lele:
Psychium-Z and Choice Scarf Tapu Lele can make quick work of Blaziken. Although, Choice Scarf would have to rely on Blaziken not getting the double Protect.
-2 252+ SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 320-378 (106.3 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 650-768 (215.9 - 255.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 335-395 (119.2 - 140.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Deoxys-D
Like most things, Blaziken has to get a crit. Fuck Crits.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-Defense: 136-161 (44.8 - 53.1%) -- 30.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. +1 248 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-Defense: 91-109 (30 - 35.9%) -- 37.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. +2 248 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-Defense: 68-82 (22.4 - 27%) -- 24.9% chance to 4HKO
Etc.
Donphan:
Blaze stands no chance unless it run SubReversal
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 226-266 (58.8 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 246-290 (64 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 452-534 (150.1 - 177.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Dragonite:
Dragonite can easily take 2 STAB hits and respond after it Dragon Dances. Or it could kill with Devestating Drake, Supersonic Skystrike, or it could be Weakness policy if Blaziken uses Stone Edge.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 74-88 (19.1 - 22.7%) -- possible 6HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 149-175 (38.6 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 155-182 (40.1 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Z-move
-6 252+ Atk Dragonite Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 117-138 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-6 252+ Atk Dragonite Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 216-254 (71.7 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 131-155 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
Note: A good blaziken that is carrying Stone Edge could go for a HJK on a Weakness policy and then follow-up with a Stone Edge. This has a chance of working on Bulky Dragonite above, and is much better on Fast Dragonite. Of course, the prediction could also end in Dragonite's favor if it clicks EQ instead of Dragonite.
Garchomp:
Garchomp's got this easy
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 298-351 (83.4 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 438-516 (145.5 - 171.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Magnezone:
Electrium-Z, Weakness Policy, and Choice Specs easily beat Blaziken, however Choice Scarf would lose
252 SpA Magnezone Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 405-477 (134.5 - 158.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 394-465 (130.8 - 154.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 361-426 (119.9 - 141.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Magnezone Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 241-285 (80 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Meloetta:
Again the scarf vs specs match-up. Scarf wins. Specs loses. Double protect wins.
252 SpA Meloetta Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 390-462 (129.5 - 153.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 352-417 (103.2 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mimikyu:
Fairium-Z and Ghostium-Z Mimikyu would win. Are there even other Mimikyu sets?
252 Atk Mimikyu Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 297-349 (98.6 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 237-280 (78.7 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 67-81 (22.2 - 26.9%) -- 27.9% chance to 4HKO
Venusaur-Mega:
Venusaur-Mega easily wins as it can just synthesize off protects.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Thick Fat Venusaur-Mega: 187-221 (51.5 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Aegislash:
This may seem like a 50/50 but Aegislash should win especially when considering the faster (blaziken's) protect would fail and Aegislash's won't.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 374-439 (115.4 - 135.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-2 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 187-221 (57.7 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-4 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 127-151 (39.1 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-6 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 94-112 (29 - 34.5%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 390-459 (129.5 - 152.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Chansey:
You have one guess.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 759-897 (107.9 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Genesect:
Blaziken wins regardless of scarf or specs
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 1097-1300 (387.6 - 459.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Genesect Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 187-220 (62.1 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Kartana Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 307-362 (101.9 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 832-988 (321.2 - 381.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Gengar-Mega:
If Gengar-Mega carries psychic or hits hypnosis it wins.
If Blaziken is Jolly or gets double protect, it wins.
252 SpA Gengar-Mega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 322-380 (106.9 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Gengar-Mega Hex (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 348-411 (115.6 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar-Mega: 320-376 (122.1 - 143.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Jirachi:
Gets rekt
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jirachi: 530-624 (155.4 - 182.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Jumpluff:
With Speed Boost, the SubSeed combo becomes impossible after 2 turns.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jumpluff: 704-829 (241.9 - 284.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Landorus-I:
It's a coin toss. Unless Lando is scarfed (is that a thing?) then it's a 1/3 followed by a coin toss for Blaziken's win
252+ SpA Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 516-608 (171.4 - 201.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 289-341 (90.5 - 106.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Primarina:
I'm going to be honest. I have no fucking clue what Primarina runs. I think Primarina wins? Here's a bunch of calcs
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 283-335 (94 - 111.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 283-335 (77.9 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Primarina Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 318-374 (105.6 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-6 252+ SpA Primarina Oceanic Operetta vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 230-272 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tapu Fini:
Tapu Fini wins? Idk what it runs. It probably wins.
252 SpA Tapu Fini Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 390-458 (129.5 - 152.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Fini: 198-234 (70.4 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Togekiss:
So, if I'm not mistaken Togekiss is either bulky with twave and air hax or it's Scarf with air hax.
Bulky air hax loses to protect - > stone edge - > stone edge unless parahax on last stone edge. Scarf with air hax requires speed tie against timid or beats adamant.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 309-364 (82.8 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 312-368 (103.6 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Whimsicott:
Occa berry variants win. Other berry variants lose
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Occa Berry Whimsicott: 231-274 (71.5 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Whimsicott: 463-549 (143.3 - 169.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Celesteela:
Blaziken wins
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Celesteela: 408-484 (102.7 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Golem:
Golem wins thanks to sturdy.
252+ Atk Golem Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 452-534 (150.1 - 177.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Nihilego:
Blaziken wins regardless of Nihilego's item.
252+ SpA Nihilego Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 190-225 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Nihilego: 519-612 (144.5 - 170.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Necrozma:
Necrozma wins
252 SpA Necrozma Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 390-458 (129.5 - 152.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma: 263-309 (78.5 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Rhyperior:
Rhyperior wins although not against Sub/Reversal
0 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 384-452 (127.5 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 528-622 (121.6 - 143.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 345-406 (79.4 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Tapu Bulu:
Blaziken wins
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 468-554 (136.4 - 161.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Sawk:
Choice Band (?) win Choice Scarf loses. Adamant Sawk gives a coin toss.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sawk: 363-426 (124.7 - 146.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Sawk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 255-300 (84.7 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sawk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 280-330 (93 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Victini:
Vicitini should win.
252 Atk Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 290-344 (96.3 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 320-378 (106.3 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Reversal (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 220-259 (64.5 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Blastoise-Mega:
Sub/Reversal wins but standard loses
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blastoise-Mega: 246-290 (82.2 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Reversal (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blastoise-Mega: 376-445 (125.7 - 148.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Blastoise-Mega Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 396-468 (131.5 - 155.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Heatran:
Blaze wins
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 546-642 (141.4 - 166.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Keldeo:
Keldeo usually loses to standard, but has a small chance to win.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 313-370 (96.9 - 114.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 480-566 (159.4 - 188%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mew:
Genesis Supernova wins
252 SpA Mew Genesis Supernova vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 678-798 (225.2 - 265.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 265-312 (77.7 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Pheromosa:
Jolly Pheromosa relies on a coin toss unless it uses Fightinium-Z. +1 Jolly Blaziken will Outspeed Adamant Pheromosa.
252 Atk Pheromosa Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 271-321 (90 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Pheromosa All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 430-507 (142.8 - 168.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 1032-1217 (364.6 - 430%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Sableye-Mega:
Blaziken can't OHKO, so Sableye-Mega can win with Metal burst, but not foul play.
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sableye-Mega: 220-259 (72.3 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Sableye-Mega Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 107-126 (35.5 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Scizor-Mega:
Blaziken wins
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor-Mega: 608-717 (177.2 - 209%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Aron: (Aron is currently ranked C, but I'm not reviewing C and C- as no notable pokemon really are in C and C-. I do however still want to bring up Blaziken vs FEAR
Theoretically, Blaziken could beat FEAR with will-o-wisp, but I doubt many Blaziken will carry that.
If you do not wish to skim through each spoiler, which I surely understand, here is a summary.
Pokemon Blaziken Beats:
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Pokemon Blaziken Loses to:
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Pokemon Blaziken 50/50 in game:
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Pokemon Blaziken 50/50 in teambuilder:
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50/50 in game refers to coin tosses or predictions. 50/50 in team builder refers to set choices usually Scarf or not for other pokemon and Sub/Reversal for Blaziken.
So now, after carefully reading all of that and thinking about everything that I just mentioned you're probably wondering "Lost Heros, was it worth it? Is Blaziken being banned really that important to you?" Well, obviously yes. I don't think Blaziken should ever have been banned. If it's default state was "legal" rather than "banned" it would have been allowed last generation and this generation. Furthermore, it gives more variety to the metagame. So many top-tier pokemon are bulky offensive pokemon like Gyarados, and CharX. Blaziken is a simple, straightforward attacker which are sorely lacking as of now, and definitely would have a place in the metagame. It is by no means broken and doesn't cause many 50/50s in-game especially with the introduction of Z-moves which damage past protect. Because of all this, I would at least like to have a Blaziken suspect test later this month preferably.
Same point as above, I don't think suspecting Ubers Pokemon is the solution here. Gen VI Blaziken was unpredictable, forcing 50/50s and sheer power applies which still applies in Gen VII where it even gained more sets.
This is probably something I could get behind if I only read through the post and probably not at the moment. The metagame should be headed into a different direction then unbanning Pokemon at the moment, if something should be done about balancing I'd rather go with the banning road at this moment. You have mentioned two sets that you think are going to only be usable while the userbase is more creative than that and will find a thousand sets that will push Darkrai over the limit. Hypnosis combined with Bad Dreams chips away damage and making it dependent on sleep rolls beating more Pokemon. Furthermore, the addition of Z-moves might be the key to Darkrai success in 1v1. Well, we can't know unless we test the Pokemon but for now I don't think we really need to do so.
Same point as above, I don't think suspecting Ubers Pokemon is the solution here. Gen VI Blaziken was unpredictable, forcing 50/50s and sheer power applies which still applies in Gen VII where it even gained more sets.
Well it's hard to truly analyze a pokemon for 1v1 purely by theorymonning. MaceMaster and I did what we could based on what we think would be base or standard sets for Darkrai and Blaziken. A suspect test would be a much better metric to analyze it further and see if it were broken or not in-game. Maybe, it's because I was inactive when it was tested the first time, but are there more pokemon it 50/50s then the ones I listed? Protect shenanigans only will take you so far and do not work nearly as well in a metagame where Super stong moves can bypass them anyways. In my opinion, Blaziken's sheer power is exactly what we need. We're in a metagame dominated by bulky offensive pokemon. Gyarados-Mega, Charizard-Mega-X, Crustle, Metagross-Mega, Magearna, and more. Blaziken's attack first surviving is unnecessary is a trait the metagame could benefit from to change our bulky meta. I know there is currently a group of people that would rather see Gyarados-mega banned but to that I think you say it best "Mega Gyarados [...] has a big movepool to pick from, and can adjust itself to beat some Pokemon, but that doesn't make it broken since it comes with some opportunity cost. "
I didn't make this Mimikyu set. I found out it existed because it ripped my Tapu Lele a new one. Let's make this clear:
If you click on a Pokemon with <320 Speed, you lose to this set unless you can time a Z-Move right to do >25% damage, you're a lucky Imprisonform Smeargle, or you play really well with your Leftovers/other recovery. That's just all there is to it. Priority (as well as higher speed mons) can work if it can deal enough to prevent Mimikyu from Subbing, but if it fails, you lose that much harder as Mimikyu can attack you conventionally by the time you go to break the one sub itll get up by which point you'll have ~25% HP.
Of these, probably the most viable in practice is the Z-Move option, because 1v1 isnt exactly a recovery-friendly environment from what I've seen (maybe up in mythical 1800 land people use recover, but down here on earth I don't see much of that sort, and i have yet to ever see lefties), and it is hard to get a Z-Move that will damage enough AND time it right that you hit through a protect to do the damage rather than just hit a sub, which the Mimikyu might go for first if your mon is known for pulling Z-Moves, or if they just have a gut feeling like I do in this battle: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-529839908
Basically the only hard counter to this set is Mold Breaker or equivalent + steel move.
This probably isn't banworthy, but it merits attention because it will fuck you up if you're not ready, and it makes the vast majority of Pokemon beneath Mimikyu's speed tier hard to viably run, nigh impossible without either scarf or Z-Crystals strong enough to outpace the stall. Stay woke.
1. It has the best combination of abilities in 1v1, aside from Mega-Mawile.
In a game mode where you can't switch out, Intimidate is very strong, increasing Gyarados's physical bulk. Moldbreaker lets Gyarados break through Sturdy, Multiscale, Magic Bounce, Shell Armor, and Unaware. These are all useful abilities to ignore, and reduce the number of pokemon that are able to beat Gyarados.
2. It has a good combination of types, making certain matchups into 50/50s.
Flying and Dark avoid super-effective hits aimed at the other type. Do you Bug Buzz or Thunderbolt as Genesect? Do you Stone Edge or Close Combat as Sawk? Do you Play Rough or Z-Ghost with Mimikyu?
3. It has incredible coverage with just a few moves.
Only a Grass-Fairy resists all of Waterfall, Crunch, Earthquake, and Outrage. The sheer range of pokemon that Gyarados can beat with all of its coverage is unmatched. It doesn't need a different item or a different EV spread. Just switch in Crunch, and suddenly Meloetta, Deoxys-Defense, and Slowbro are all in trouble. Magnezone is a problem, sub in EQ. Want to beat Golem, just use Waterfall. Trouble with Celesteela? Use Taunt. Mega-Gyarados is capable of beating well over half the metagame.
4. Waterfall flinches let it hax its way out of unwinnable matchups.
There are very few pokemon that beat Gyarados 100% of the time. So many of its counters lose if they get flinched just once by Waterfall. Air Balloon Magnezone, Choice Specs Primarina, Choice Specs Magearna, Z-Reflect Tapu Lele, Mega-Pinsir, Z-Play Rough Mimikyu. All lose to hax. Of course, plenty of other pokemon win with hax, but this narrows down greatly the number of pokemon that beat Mega-Gyarados 100% of the time, rather than 80% of the time.
Hello 1v1
My name is Mez (or UnleashOurPassion for short) I'm an oldie in 1v1 but nobody knew me until recently, and I am here to write a little something about our favorite fish.
Mega Gyarados
(How does one complain about things? o.o)
I am not familiar with the ways of smogon or any discussion for that matter, so I will approach this in my own way: Stating opinions, movesets, pros, cons and lots of damage calcs about Mega Gyarados, followed by some more text and a conclusion.
(I don't know where to start)
Mezzy, why is Gyarados on your team?
That's a question I can work with, and I will.
Gyarados fills a lot of holes in my poorly constructed team. First of all Dark/Water is a good typing that can easily be supported by team options. Mega Gyarados also has two fantastic abilities in Intimidate and Mold Breaker. The combination of the two can poke holes in things that could normally defeat it.
This example shows that normally a Mimikyu could outspeed and OHKO a mega gyarados, while gyarados needs at least one dragon dance to do the same. With intimidate Mimikyu still isn't stopped because it takes a dragon dance and 2 hits to kill a Mimikyu, at that point Gyarados would be dead already. But because Gyarados can mega-evolve and use mold breaker to Mimikyu completely bypass Disguise, now managing to get up on top.
Mezzy, tell them about the typing magic Good point
As you can see here Mega Gyarados is a Dark/Water type, giving it weaknesses to quite a few types, most notably Bug, Fighting and Fairy. I am not really considering Grass because it's not a common strong offensive type, what I say about Fairy also goes for grass though. Electric will be mentioned later.
Now the magic happens: What if you don't mega-evolve your gyarados? Well, of the weaknesses mentioned above, 2 types (Bug and Fighting) turn into resistances if you decide not to mega-evolve. This means a threat like Pheromosa suddenly becomes neglectable, losing all its strong hits against Gyarados. Weaknesses to Fairy and Grass become neutral against Gyarados, regardless of Physical or Special: Gyarados can take those. The other way around a Gyarados can mega-evolve to get rid of its Rock weakness and to lessen the Electric weakness, turning many Electric moves from a One Hit KO (OHKO) into a 2HKO giving Gyarados some more space. An opponent will often have to rely on a 50/50 to beat Gyarados just by it going for that first turn mega or not.
Now let's have some fun with Gyarados' stats
Regular Gyarados doesn't really have interesting stats, it has a high attack and good defenses, especially after intimidate.
Where it really gets interesting is when you consider the mega. This guy has amazing 95/109/130 bulk WITHOUT intimidate, the intimidate means you're going to be taking even less physical damage making it difficult for non-supereffective hits to break through Gyarados. Gyarados' only real downside when it comes to stats, is it's a little slow. But because of its bulk it can easily solve the speed issue by setting up one or more Dragon Dance, while also increasing its power by a lot.
I feel like most other things have been said by other people already (actually I'm just getting bored)
I promised you all a conclusion thingy though.
Gyarados deserves at least a suspect test
An enormous thanks goes out to all those people who kept distracting me while writing this, and to my trusty popcorn for helping me through these 4 hours of work.
I apologize for my writing style, writing 1 sentence then throwing facts in your face might not be the best way to do this but I know of no other way.
If you take into account Intimidate, Mega-Gyarados has some the highest base stats in the game. It has Defenses of 95/136/130 if you take into account Intimidate and an attack stat of 155. These are absolutely crazy stat totals. Its stats rival those of Regigigas which has 110/110/100 defenses and an attack stat of 160. Of course, Regigigas gets Slow Start in return, while Mega-Gyarados gets Moldbreaker.
It is indeed bulky (near exactly as bulky as umbreon), though lacking in speed, which puts it at risk of being 2hko'd easily by most things that outspeed it after a Dragon Dance, while at the same time it cannot OHKO much of anything due to its strongest attack literally being Giga Impact.
2. It has the best combination of abilities in 1v1, aside from Mega-Mawile.
In a game mode where you can't switch out, Intimidate is very strong, increasing Gyarados's physical bulk. Moldbreaker lets Gyarados break through Sturdy, Multiscale, Magic Bounce, Shell Armor, and Unaware. These are all useful abilities to ignore, and reduce the number of pokemon that are able to beat Gyarados.
Frankly, Mold Breaker is used mainly to hax Pokemon that would've been immune to it otherwise, or just beat lvl 1 Sturdy + Magnezone. It's definitely better than nothing, but in relation to the Pokemon that are actual threats, it doesn't actually do much.
3. It has a good combination of types, making certain matchups into 50/50s.
Flying and Dark avoid super-effective hits aimed at the other type. Do you Bug Buzz or Thunderbolt as Genesect? Do you Stone Edge or Close Combat as Sawk? Do you Play Rough or Z-Ghost with Mimikyu?
4. It has incredible coverage with just a few moves.
Only a Grass-Fairy resists all of Waterfall, Crunch, Earthquake, and Outrage. The sheer range of pokemon that Gyarados can beat with all of its coverage is unmatched. It doesn't need a different item or a different EV spread. Just switch in Crunch, and suddenly Meloetta, Deoxys-Defnse, and Slowbro are all in trouble. Magnezone is a problem, sub in EQ. Want to beat Golem, just use Waterfall. Trouble with Celesteela? Use Taunt. Mega-Gyarados is capable of beating well over half the metagame.
It definitely does cover a lot of ground with all of its moves, but the problem is that you're only ever limited to 4, which means that you're going to have to constantly be changing between either moves or teams in order to cover threats that one set can beat while the other cannot.
And it absolutely needs EV spreads as well, since it loses to a plain old Scarf Kyurem without bulk, but at the same time, loses to plain old Zard-Y or Banded Garchomp without speed investment, as well as many other similar scenarios.
Simply put, the combination of EV spreads and moves narrow down the capabilities of Gyarados so much that it will always be just standardly good rather than broken, since it will only be able to counter a fraction of what every possible set can handle. And this isn't even mentioning particular scenarios like Gyarados vs Slowbro or Deoxys-D, since it doesn't even win if you don't know how to play it right or if you don't have specifically Taunt AND Crunch.
5. Waterfall flinches let it hax its way out of unwinnable matchups.
There are very few pokemon that beat Gyarados 100% of the time. So many of its counters lose if they get flinched just once by Waterfall. Air Balloon Magnezone, Choice Specs Primarina, Choice Specs Magearna, Z-Reflect Tapu Lele, Mega-Pinsir, Z-Play Rough Mimikyu. All lose to hax. Of course, plenty of other pokemon win with hax, but this narrows down greatly the number of pokemon that beat Mega-Gyarados 100% of the time, rather than 80% of the time.
It's true that there isn't really much that can beat it 100% of the time, but that's a characteristic shared by most S rank as well as generally viable A rank mons. Kyurem-Black has multiple viable sets that give it a wild range of coverage, but we won't be seeing him leave anytime soon.
As for hax, that's an omnipresent factor when it comes to anything Pokemon, heck, there are even two A rank mons that are A rank simply just because of their ability to win games through random chance rolls. And I do not even dare bring up sleep spammers
My own personal thoughts:
Gyarados is definitely a viable threat, but the problem is that it only really helps against people who are newer to 1v1 or using bad/gimmicky mons and sets.
Mawile checked a good 2/3 of all Pokemon, ranked and not, with more-or-less just a single set, back in Gen 6 while Gyarados struggled checking even half with all of his. I only bring this up because, if Mawile wasn't broken enough to get banned or even suspected in gen 6, what makes it the case for Gyarados in gen 7?
It's true that there isn't really much that can beat it 100% of the time, but that's a characteristic shared by most S rank as well as generally viable A rank mons. Kyurem-Black has multiple viable sets that give it a wild range of coverage, but we won't be seeing him leave anytime soon.
As for hax, that's an omnipresent factor when it comes to anything Pokemon, heck, there are even two A rank mons that are A rank simply just because of their ability to win games through random chance rolls. And I do not even dare bring up sleep spammers
It is indeed bulky (near exactly as bulky as umbreon), though lacking in speed, which puts it at risk of being 2hko'd easily by most things that outspeed it after a Dragon Dance, while at the same time it cannot OHKO much of anything due to its strongest attack literally being Giga Impact.
I did the math wrong, it's actually even bulkier than I said if Intimidate goes off. Which it will against everything but Mega-Metagross and Hyper-cutter Mega-Pinsir. I just deleted that part, though. It's unimportant.
Frankly, Mold Breaker is used mainly to hax Pokemon that would've been immune to it otherwise, or just beat lvl 1 Sturdy + Magnezone. It's definitely better than nothing, but in relation to the Pokemon that are actual threats, it doesn't actually do much.
Mold Breaker won't hax anything... I don't know what you mean by this. There are a lot of good pokemon that would beat Gyarados if it didn't have Mold Breaker. Or, at least, Mega-Gyarados would have harder time against them. I think Donphan, Golem, Mimikyu, Sawk, Magnezone, and Dragonite are all actual threats. Maybe they're not. That's certainly not a comprehensive list of pokemon Gyarados uses Mold Breaker to beat by any means, either.
There are many situations in 1v1 where decisions come to 50/50 chances, Gyarados is not a special case.
I agree with this. However, I'm pointing this out because it can help Gyarados turn losses into wins. It's just another advantage Gyarados has.
And it absolutely needs EV spreads as well, since it loses to a plain old Scarf Kyurem without bulk, but at the same time, loses to plain old Zard-Y or Banded Garchomp without speed investment, as well as many other similar scenarios.
You can beat all those with the same EV spread. Unless plain old Zard-Y is HP invested. Then, yeah, you'd need a different one I think for Zard-Y. Garchomp got a lot worse this gen now that Rough Skin doesn't give you the win if it KOs your opponent.
Gyarados vs Slowbro or Deoxys-D, since it doesn't even win if you don't know how to play it right or if you don't have specifically Taunt AND Crunch.
You don't need Taunt to beat Deoxys-Defense. You do need Taunt to beat Slowbro, although you get a number of chances to crit because of Mold Breaker.
but that's a characteristic shared by most S rank as well as generally viable A rank mons. Kyurem-Black has multiple viable sets that give it a wild range of coverage, but we won't be seeing him leave anytime soon.
As for hax, that's an omnipresent factor when it comes to anything Pokemon, heck, there are even two A rank mons that are A rank simply just because of their ability to win games through random chance rolls.
I do agree that hax is omnipresent in pokemon. What I'm saying by bringing up Waterfall is that even pokemon that would appear to be counters to Gyarados are only counters 80% of the time. This just increases the number of games it wins and reduces the number of games it loses, same as its ability to change its type.
Kyurem-Black doesn't really have any moves that have hax. Ice Beam, perhaps, but Ice Beam hax comes up very rarely. And it has more hard counters than Gyarados. Also, I think it has to pay a higher cost running one set over the other, and it still doesn't beat as many pokemon with all its different sets and moves and EV spreads as Mega-Gyarados does by changing 2 or 3 moves and using 1 or 2 EV spreads.
Gyarados is definitely a viable threat, but the problem is that it only really helps against people who are newer to 1v1 or using bad/gimmicky mons and sets.
What? Gyarados is great vs everybody. As far as I know, literally 2 people have gotten rank 1 without it this gen. It's the most used pokemon by far at high elo. http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-01/gen71v1-1760.txt
Mawile checked a good 2/3 of all Pokemon, ranked and not, with more-or-less just a single set, back in Gen 6 while Gyarados struggled checking even half with all of his. I only bring this up because, if Mawile wasn't broken enough to get banned or even suspected in gen 6, what makes it the case for Gyarados in gen 7?
I have no idea why Mega-Mawile didn't get suspected last gen. I only started playing 1v1 at the end of gen 6 and I only payed attention to whether things would get suspected or banned in gen 7. My first post on Smogon was in this thread.
Mold Breaker won't hax anything... I don't know what you mean by this. There are a lot of good pokemon that would beat Gyarados if it didn't have Mold Breaker. Or, at least, Mega-Gyarados would have harder time against them. I think Donphan, Golem, Mimikyu, Sawk, Magnezone, and Dragonite are all actual threats. Maybe they're not. That's certainly not a comprehensive list of pokemon Gyarados uses Mold Breaker to beat by any means, either.
I was referring mainly to Slowbro, I should've been more specific since it's really just Slowbro that is relevant in 1v1 and has an ability pertaining to hax. As for those mons, Gyarados can just make its way around all of them with or without Mold Breaker, bar Toxic stall Mimikyu and Magnezone who I already mentioned.
You can beat all those with the same EV spread. Unless plain old Zard-Y is HP invested. Then, yeah, you'd need a different one I think for Zard-Y. Garchomp got a lot worse this gen now that Rough Skin doesn't give you the win if it KOs your opponent.
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados-Mega: 181-214 (54.6 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Who needs Rough Skin
Is the spread Atk 216/Def 188/Spe 104? Or at least something comparable. Since those are about the minimum stats necessary to OHKO no bulk Zard-y after a Dance, Take a Fusion Bolt from Scarfrem, and Outspeed a Bandchomp after a Dance. And if that is the case, then why assume that just Gyarados is capable of running complex EV spreads to counteract as much as possible? Zard-Y just needs to sprinkle in some Defense EVs and all of a sudden it's a Gyara counter, while Kyurem has the potential of being adamant now, since there really isn't much that it needs to outspeed other than itself nowadays, which would throw everything about this Gyara spread out of whack, Garchomp on the other hand, can't really do much since it only really has one viable set.
Well it depends on the Deoxys set, since many like to run a Taunt of their own, as well as the infamous Counter/Coat set, which forces Gyara into an unpleasant 50/50. And the Slowbro gets numerous chances to burn the Gyarados with Scald, leaving Gyarados being required to sacrifice two of its moveslots in order to counteract more or less one particular Pokemon.
I do agree that hax is omnipresent in pokemon. What I'm saying by bringing up Waterfall is that even pokemon that would appear to be counters to Gyarados are only counters 80% of the time. This just increases the number of games it wins and reduces the number of games it loses, same as its ability to change its type.
Most Pokemon get a move that has a 20% or higher flinch chance, it's really kind of a neutralizing factor. Just like how Greninja beats Meloetta 1/4 of the time with Dark Pulse due to either Flinches or crits. In the end it's all part of the risk associated with using a generic mon to counteract a threat rather than a hard counter.
Kyurem-Black doesn't really have any moves that have hax. Ice Beam, perhaps, but Ice Beam hax comes up very rarely. And it has more hard counters than Gyarados. Also, I think it has to pay a higher cost running one set over the other, and it still doesn't beat as many pokemon with all its different sets and moves and EV spreads as Mega-Gyarados does by changing 2 or 3 moves and using 1 or 2 EV spreads.
What? Gyarados is great vs everybody. As far as I know, literally 2 people have gotten rank 1 without it this gen. It's the most used pokemon by far at high elo. http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-01/gen71v1-1760.txt
Usage does not correlate to how good a mon is. I'm not sure if you were there back in the day, but Salamence Mega wasn't even S rank until people started theorymonning about how op it really is, nor was it even top 10 in usage iirc. also the rating that gets used for usage stats is Glicko-1
I have no idea why Mega-Mawile didn't get suspected last gen. I only started playing 1v1 at the end of gen 6 and I only payed attention to whether things would get suspected or banned in gen 7. My first post on Smogon was in this thread.
In all honesty, Mawile might have been too good for Gen 6 1v1, but seeing how many new counters for it we have today, I'm not sure if it'll be as banworthy...
It's ability to change its typing turns easy wins into 50/50s. This can only be a point in its favor. If it was either Water-Flying or Water-Dark, all those pokemon would easily beat Gyarados.
Gyarados can just make its way around all of them with or without Mold Breaker, bar Toxic stall Mimikyu and Magnezone who I already mentioned.
It'd have a much harder time with all of them, as Mimikyu beats it down with Play Rough or Shadow Claw, let alone Z-Moves, and Counter becomes a real problem against the others. Specs Magneone would never lose. Dragonite would win a lot more often than the almost never it wins now. Mold Breaker is a huge part of Gyarados being good.
Is the spread Atk 216/Def 188/Spe 104? Or at least something comparable. Since those are about the minimum stats necessary to OHKO no bulk Zard-y after a Dance, Take a Fusion Bolt from Scarfrem, and Outspeed a Bandchomp after a Dance. And if that is the case, then why assume that just Gyarados is capable of running complex EV spreads to counteract as much as possible? Zard-Y just needs to sprinkle in some Defense EVs and all of a sudden it's a Gyara counter, while Kyurem has the potential of being adamant now, since there really isn't much that it needs to outspeed other than itself nowadays, which would throw everything about this Gyara spread out of whack, Garchomp on the other hand, can't really do much since it only really has one viable set.
Gyara probably has the lowest opportunity cost of running other moves and EVs than any other mon. And yeah that EV spread is pretty close to what I meant.
Well it depends on the Deoxys set, since many like to run a Taunt of their own, as well as the infamous Counter/Coat set, which forces Gyara into an unpleasant 50/50.
I was just sayin Mega-Gyara can hax some of its counters while Kyurem-Black can hax pretty much none of its counters.
Usage does not correlate to how good a mon is. I'm not sure if you were there back in the day, but Salamence Mega wasn't even S rank until people started theorymonning about how op it really is, nor was it even top 10 in usage iirc. also the rating that gets used for usage stats is Glicko-1
You said Mega-Gyara was only good against bad players. I was just using some stats to show that Mega-Gyara is good against everyone and used very often by the highest ranked players.
You said Mega-Gyara was only good against bad players. I was just using some stats to show that Mega-Gyara is good against everyone and used very often by the highest ranked players.
1v1 is populated mostly by bad players, it only makes sense that you'd bring something that gets you easy points for fighting them. More often than not, when higher level players encounter each other or expect to encounter each other, they most likely won't bring or use Gyarados, since it's so standardized and well-prepared for. Not to mention having an S rank by its name in the viability rankings will always make people want to use it more.
Not carrying on with any of the other points since the facts have already been stated
So, The Official Glyx, you feel that Gyarados is bad against good players? Let's take a look at some usage stats from the 1760s: A) Gyarados is the most used pokemon, doubling the usage of the pokemon below it, Mega Charizard X. B) 13/20 of the most used pokemon from the 1760 stats are beat by Gyarados (assuming the most popular set and excluding Gyarados itself).
MaceMaster
A) irrelevant, as stated above.
B) beating other top mons means nothing. Hydreigon beats a big chunk of all ubers but you don't see it becoming an uber now do you?
Before the news of new megas being brought back, I definitely felt that Mega Gyarados deserved to be suspected due to just how much it warps the meta around it. However, now that we know that the other megas are coming back, with Mega Mawile being released later this month (which was one of the more important checks to Mega Gyarados last generation) , I believe we should at least wait until it's release to see if it will be as big of an issue (which it still could be don't get me wrong).
