[Balanced Hackmons] Kyogre

[morogrim]

[OVERVIEW]

Kyogre is the most specially bulky Water-type in Balanced Hackmons that is also capable of dealing high damage. With some investment in bulk, it is capable of surviving almost any unboosted move in the metagame, which gives it the opportunity to set up quite reliably. It is one of the best Scald users in the metagame due to its base 150 Special Attack and STAB and only faces some competition from Palkia, which has a better offensive typing anyway due to its secondary Dragon typing; however, Kyogre has better defensive typing and superior bulk. Kyogre's decent defensive typing allows it to switch into many of the commonly used special moves in the game, such as Blue Flare, Steam Eruption, and Ice Beam. Kyogre's typing leaves it with only two weaknesses, Electric and Grass, both of which are not too common in the metagame. Kyogre additionally takes neutral damage from Aerilate- and Pixilate-boosted moves and resists Ice, which allows it to take even a Boomburst from any -ate user and proceed to retaliate. Kyogre also has a good offensive typing, as Water-type moves are only resisted by Water-, Dragon-, and the uncommon Grass-types. As a result, Kyogre is already Imposter-resistant because it resists its own type. Kyogre is, however, held back by its lower Defense. Kyogre's Speed stat also hinders it, as it needs to boost to at least +2 to outspeed relevant threats in the metagame such as Mega Gengar, Mega Mewtwo X, Mega Mewtwo Y, and Mega Rayquaza without any Speed investment.

[SET]
name: Poison Heal
move 1: Quiver Dance
move 2: Scald
move 3: Ice Beam / Moonblast / Leech Seed
move 4: King's Shield / Leech Seed
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Quiver Dance boosts Kyogre's already high Special Attack and Special Defense stats along with its Speed. Scald is preferred over Steam Eruption because it has much higher PP, and as a result, it can be spammed to spread burns. Scald is also useful against Imposter users because their moves will have 5 PP each. Scald burns weaken physical attackers, making up for Kyogre's low Defense, and it also wears down walls that Kyogre cannot easily defeat, such as Giratina and Fur Coat Chansey. The third moveslot is dedicated to either an Ice- or Fairy-type coverage move or Leech Seed. Ice Beam has 100% accuracy and can KO Dragon-types and OHKO Mega Rayquaza without any prior boosts, while Moonblast can defeat Water-types such as Palkia and Mega Gyarados. Moonblast, though, does have the disadvantage of having a chance to lower Kyogre's Special Attack if an Imposter user uses it and also makes Kyogre vulnerable to Lucky Punch Imposter Chansey. Leech Seed can be used to deal with Shedinja and to defeat Imposter users such as Chansey and Blissey since they have higher HP than Kyogre. King's Shield enables Kyogre to be able to defeat -ate users in addition to giving a free turn of passive recovery from Poison Heal. It also allows Kyogre to scout for the foe's moveset but does not block status such as sleep and burn from moves such as Spore and Will-O-Wisp if Toxic Orb has not been activated yet. Leech Seed is also a good option for this moveslot if a coverage move was selected for the third moveslot.

Set Details
========

Toxic Orb allows Kyogre to activate Poison Heal, which prevents status conditions and also provides passive recovery. 248 EVs are invested into HP to increase Kyogre's longevity and minimize Stealth Rock damage taken. A Bold nature along with 80 Defense EVs allows Kyogre to survive the Fake Out + Extreme Speed combination from Aerilate Mega Rayquaza with Sky Plate without even using King's Shield (after Poison Heal Recovery). Alternatively, a Modest nature along with 40 Defense EVs can be run if King's Shield is chosen as one of the moves to ensure surviving an Extreme Speed from a Life Orb Mega Rayquaza. The other 40 EV points can either be dumped into Special Attack or Special Defense. 180 Special Defense EVs guarantees that Kyogre will survive a Boomburst from a Life Orb Mega Rayquaza without fainting. A more offensive spread such as 248 HP / 40 Def / 72 SpA / 148 Spe can also be used with a Timid nature (preferably alongside King's Shield) to enable Kyogre to outspeed up to positive-natured Mega Mewtwo Y after a single Quiver Dance boost.

Usage Tips
========

Bring Kyogre in with a slow pivot to safely activate Poison Heal. This is absolutely crucial because Kyogre cannot afford to lose its Toxic Orb via moves such as Knock Off and Trick or get statused. Kyogre can easily set up on walls after activating Poison Heal; however, be wary of Trick users, as they can easily cripple Kyogre by tricking a Choice item onto it. Use Scald to burn walls that will use a phazing move to get some chip damage on them and wear them down. King's Shield should be used to weaken physical attackers, get a free turn of passive recovery, or scout for movesets. Be wary of opponents that could predict this and take that opportunity to set up. Kyogre can be brought in on walls such as Giratina or even bulky attackers such as Mega Tyranitar to set up; however, make sure that Toxic Orb has already been activated so that Kyogre does not risk getting statused. Leech Seed, the primary way of dealing with Shedinja, should also be used to defeat Imposter users, as their HP is higher than Kyogre's. Try to use Kyogre in the late-game after your wallbreakers have weakened the opponent's walls to set up and sweep. Setting up in the early-game mostly results in Kyogre being forced out, so it is better to just go for Scald burns early on.

Team Options
========

Kyogre appreciates wallbreakers such as Mega Latios, Mega Mewtwo X, and -ate users such as Mega Rayquaza to break down walls, as Kyogre is easily forced out by most of them. Kyogre also requires some support to be able to defeat Primal Groudon, which can set up on this set. Bulky attackers such as Mega Garchomp and Mega Swampert are good offensive answers, while physical walls such as Fur Coat Giratina and Mega Slowbro are more defensive approaches. Additionally, defensive Pokemon such as Giratina and Mega Slowbro can help deal with the physical attackers that Kyogre normally has trouble with.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Freeze Dry can be used for Ice-type coverage at the expense of losing some power; it can, however, help Kyogre deal with Water-types such as Palkia, Mega Gyarados, and Mega Swampert more easily. It also does not make Kyogre terribly weak to Imposter users either, as Freeze Dry does not do much damage when uninvested. Freeze Dry is, however, a liability against the uncommon Lucky Punch Imposter Chansey, as critical hits ignore all positive stats changes of the foe. King's Shield can also be replaced with Spiky Shield so that Kyogre does not need a slow pivot support to activate Toxic Orb, though this comes at the expense of not being able to potentially weaken physical attackers with King's Shield. Spore can be used instead in the fourth moveslot to put foes to sleep. This helps Kyogre defeat some threats such as Mega Latios, Mega Latias, Fur Coat Chansey, and Primal Groudon, none of which are easily KOed and can hit Kyogre hard in return (with the exception of Chansey). Dark Void may also be used to hit walls holding Safety Goggles at the expense of having a bit less accuracy. Infestation can be used instead of Leech Seed to be able to still defeat Shedinja while also being able to trap unsuspecting switch-ins. Water Spout and Steam Eruption are alternatives to Scald that are Imposter-proof and also deal more damage at the expense of having many fewer PP. Water Spout has the disadvantage of being HP-reliant, so Kyogre must be kept at high HP for it to remain effective. Taunt, another option for the fourth moveslot, helps Kyogre defeat walls that normally force it out with utility moves such as Topsy-Turvy and Whirlwind, but it also has the disadvantage of making Kyogre a bit more vulnerable to Imposter users. Fur Coat is also an option for Kyogre, as it greatly helps in patching up its weaker Defense stat and can be used to deal with -ate users such as Mega Rayquaza and Mega Diancie. RegenVest takes advantage of Kyogre's high Special Defense and makes it a great special wall, neutral to many attacks. In this case, Quiver Dance should be replaced with a pivoting move such as Volt Switch and the fourth move should be changed to Night Shade, Nuzzle, or Dragon Tail, while Moonblast is preferred for the third move.


Checks and Counters
===================

**Strong Physical Attackers**: Powerful physical foes such as Mega Mewtwo X and Kyurem-B can easily KO Kyogre with a strong coverage move such as Bolt Strike.

**Prankster Walls**: Walls such as Registeel and Giratina can ruin Kyogre's attempts at setting up with moves such as Encore, Topsy-Turvy, and Heart Swap, but they risk getting burned by Scald.

**Unaware Walls**: Unaware users such as Mega Audino can phaze Kyogre while ignoring its boosts, but they risk getting burned by Scald.

**Faster Special Wallbreakers**: Wallbreakers such as Mega Mewtwo Y and Mega Sceptile can threaten Kyogre before it sets up and force it out.

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon completely shuts Kyogre down with Desolate Land and can deal large amounts of damage to it.

**Mega Latios and Mega Latias**: Mega Latios and Mega Latias can take Ice Beams pretty well thanks to Soul Dew and can hit Kyogre on its weaker defensive side with STAB Psystrikes.

**Bulky Poison Heal Users**: Poison Heal users such as Kyogre and Giratina are extremely hard to defeat, and Kyogre requires many boosts to be able to break them, especially if they carry phazing moves such as Whirlwind.

my bullet points

[OVERVIEW]

. Specially bulky Water-type that can take hits and in return deal good damage
. Decent defensive typing, only 2 weaknesses (both of which are not even that common in BH bar Seed Flare, Leaf Storm, and Bolt Strike). This typing also allows it to easily switch into Fire, Water, and Ice-type moves such as Blue Flare, Origin Pulse, and Ice Beam, all of which are pretty common offensive types in the meta
. Takes neutral damage from Pixilate and Aerilate users, resists Refrigerate
. Decent offensive typing as well, only gets resisted by Water and the common Dragon-types and the uncommon Grass-types
. Automatically is Imposter-resistant since it resists its own type
. Bulky enough to take one hit from almost any unboosted move in the meta with some investment in bulk
. Its Speed stat holds it back as it needs at least +2 Speed to outspeed relevant threats such as Mega Mewtwo Y, Mega Mewtwo X, and Mega Rayquaza (assuming no Speed investment)
. One of the best users of Scald due to base 150 Special Attck
. Faces some competition from Palkia but has better defensive typing and better bulk, Palkia has better Speed and access to Dragon-type STAB
. Its weaker Defense stat also holds it back to some degree as it does not appreciate taking hits from strong physical attackers such as Mega Mewtwo X

[SET]
name: Poison Heal
move 1: Quiver Dance
move 2: Scald
move 3: Ice Beam / Moonblast / Leech Seed
move 4: King's Shield / Leech Seed
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

. Quiver Dance to boost Kyogre's already high Special Attack and Special Defense stats along with its Speed to higher levels
. Scald is the STAB Water-type move of choice and is preferred over Steam Erruption as it has much higher PP and can be used frequently to spread burns, which is helpful to weaken physical attackers to make up for Kyogre's weaker Defense stat and also to wear down walls that Kyogre cannot easily defeat
. For the third moveslot, either an Ice or Fairy-type coverage move or Leech Seed is used. Ice Beam has a 100% accuracy and can kill Dragon-types and also OHKO Mega Rayquaza without any prior boosts while Moonblast can defeat Water-types like Palkia and Mega Gyarados. Moonblast does however have the disadvantage of having a chance to lower Kyogre's Special Attack if an Imposter user uses it against it in addition to making Kyogre vulnerable to Lucky Punch Imposter Chansey whereas Ice Beam does not have these disadvantages. Leech Seed can be used to deal with Shedinja and also defeat Imposter users such as Chansey and Blissey since they have higher HP than Kyogre.
. King's Shield enables Kyogre to be able to defeat -ate users in addition to giving a free turn of passive recovery from Poison Heal. It also enables Kyogre to scout for the foe's moveset but it does not block status such as sleep and burn from moves like Spore and Will-O-Wisp if Toxic Orb has not been activated yet, Leech Seed is also a good option if an Ice coverage move was selected for the third slot.

Set Details
========

. Toxic Orb allows Kyogre to activate Poison Heal which prevents status conditions and also provides passive recovery
. Investing 248 EV points into HP increases Kyogre's longevity and minimizes Stealth Rock damage taken
. A Bold nature along with 80 Defense EVs allow Kyogre to survive the Fake Out + Extreme Speed combination from Aerilate Mega Rayquaza with Sky Plate without even using King's Shield (after Poison Heal Recovery). Alternatively a Modest nature along with 40 Defense EVs can be chosen if King's Shield is chosen as one of the moves to ensure surviving an Extreme Speed from a Life Orb Mega Rayquaza
. 180 Special Defense EVs guarantees that Kyogre will survive a Boomburst from a Life Orb Mega Rayquaza without fainting, if King's Shield is chosen as one of the moves the other 40 EV points can either be dumped into Special Attack or Special Defense
. A more offensive spread such as 248 HP / 40 Def / 68 SpA / 152 Spe can also be used with a Timid nature (preferably along with King's Shield) to enable Kyogre to outspeed up to positive-natured Mega Mewtwo Y after a single Quiver Dance boost

Usage Tips
========

. Bring Kyogre in on a slow pivot to safely activate Poison Heal, this is absolutely crucial as Kyogre cannot afford to lose its Toxic Orb or getting statused, can alternatively use Spiky Shield to activate Poison Heal without needing a slow pivot
. Kyogre can easily set up on walls after activating Poison Heal, however need to be wary of Trick users
. Use Scald to burn walls that will phaze you to get some chip damage on them and wear them down
. Use King's Shield to weaken physical attackers, get a free turn of passive recovery, or to scout for movesets. But be wary of foes that could predict this and take that opportunity to set up
. Bring Kyogre in on walls such as Giratina or even bulky attackers such as Mega Tyranitar and set up, however make sure that your Toxic Orb has already been activated so you do not risk getting statused
. Leech Seed is the primary way of dealing with Shedinja as it kills it, it should also be used to defeat Imposter users as their HP is higher than yours so Kyogre's Leech will end up doing more damage to the foe and healing Kyogre for a higher amount at the same time
. Use Kyogre in the late game after your wallbreakers have weakened the opponent's walls to set up and sweep, setting up in the early game mostly results in being forced out so it is better to just go for Scald burns early on

Team Options
========

. Kyogre appreciates wallbreakers such as Mega Latios, Mega Mewtwo X, and -ate users such as Mega Rayquaza to break down walls as Kyogre is easily phazed by most walls
. Kyogre also requires some support to be able to defeat Primal Groudon, which can actually set up on this set. Pokemon such as Mega Garchomp and Mega Swampert are good offensive answers while Pokemon such as Fur Coat Giratina and Mega Slowbro are more defensive approaches
. Pokemon such as Giratina and Mega Slowbro can help deal with the physical attackers that Kyogre notmally has trouble with


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

. Freeze Dry can be used for the Ice-type coverage but at the expense of losing some power, it can however help Kyogre deal with Water-types such as Palkia and Mega Gyarados and Mega Swampert more easily. It also does not make Kyogre terribly weak to Imposter users either as Freeze Dry does not do much damage when uninvested
. King's Shield can also be replaced with Spiky Shield so Kyogre does not need slow pivot support to activate Toxic Orb but at the expense of not being able to potentially weaken physical attackers with King's Shield
. Spore can be used instead of the third or fourth moveslot to put foes to sleep. This helps Kyogre defeat some threats such as Mega Latios, Mega Latias, Fur Coat Chansey, and Primal Groudon, none of which are easily KOed and can hit Kyogre hard in return (with the exception of Chansey). Dark Void may also be used to hit the walls holding Safety Goggles but at the expense of having a bit less accuracy
. Infestation can be used intead of Leech Seed to be able to still defeat Shedinja while also being able to trap unsuspecting switch-ins
. Water Spout is also an alternative to Scald that is Imposter-proof and also does more damage
. Fur Coat is also an option for Kyogre as it greatly helps in patching up its weaker Defense stat
. RegenVest may also be run on Kyogre which takes advantage of its high Special Defense and makes it a great special wall, neutral to many attacks. In this case Quiver Dance should be replaced with a pivoting move such as Volt Switch and the fourth move should be changed to Night Shade, Nuzzle, or Dragon Tail. Moon Blast is preferred for the third move.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Strong Physical Attackers**: such as Mega Mewtwo X and Kyurem-B can easily KO Kyogre with the appropriate coverage move (such as Bolt Strike)

**Prankster Walls**: such as Registeel and Giratina can ruin Kyogre's attempts at setting up with moves such as Encore, Topsy-Turvy, and Heart Swap but risk getting burned by Scald

**Unaware Walls**: such as Mega Audino can phaze Kyogre while ignoring its boosts but at the expense of potentially getting burned by Scald

**Faster Wallbreakers**: such as Mega Latios and Mega Sceptile can threaten Kyogre before it sets up

**Primal Groudon**: completely shuts Kyogre down with Desolate Land, and can deal large amounts of damage in return

**Mega Latios and Mega Latias**: take even Ice Beams pretty well thanks to Soul Dew and can hit Kyogre on its weaker defensive side with STAB Psystrikes

**Bulky Poison Heal Users**: such as Kyogre and Giratina are extremely hard to defeat and require many boosts to be able to break, especially if they carry phazing moves such as Whirlwind

 

[skies]

@monogrim – 24 hours.

 

[morogrim]

@monogrim – 24 hours.

You got it! (also thanks for misspelling my name)

 

[morogrim]

Ready for QC! Tagging E4 Flint, Kingslayer2779, nyan kat, Piccolo Daimao, Pikachuun, and Uselesscrab

 

[nyan kat]

Hey there, nice analysis! Here are some things you can change

Overview:

• Specify that when saying 'bulky' you refer to Kyogre's Special bulk.
• Add that Kyogre also lacks resistances as well. Because of this, I wouldn't say it has a fantastic defensive typing.
• I also think saying Kyogre has a great offensive typing is a stretch, since Dragon types are so common.
• Remove the point about Blue Orb, I don't think it's very viable.
• Note that Palkia has higher Speed and also access to Dragon STAB, which gives it an edge offensively.

Set 1:

• I think Frost Breath and Thousand Waves should both be removed. Kyogre doesn't really need any help dealing with Imposter because it lacks a form of recovery, and appreciates using other moves. As for Frost Breath, Ice Beam is better for the accuracy.
• Slash Moonblast in moveslot 3. It's an alternative that better covers some Water-types like Palkia and Mega Gyarados. Also the PP is higher, but it fails to beat PDon. (Not really a problem with Imposterproofing since without SpA investment Imposter won't be doing any damage to you without Lucky Punch)
• Mention in Moves that Scald burns help cover Kyogre's weaker Defense stat.
• Mention specifically in moves that Leech Seed is able to beat Imposter because of Chansey's higher HP stat.
• Mention that King's Shield also gives Kyogre a free turn to heal with Poison Heal, and lets you scout movesets. Mention specifically that it fails to block status moves like Spore or WoW if Toxic Orb isn't activated.
• "be replaced with Spiky Shield so Kyogre does not need slow pivot support to activate Poison Heal" Change Poison Heal here to Toxic Orb
• The usage tips need to be more detailed. Add that King's Shield can be used to scout for moves, weaken Physical attackers, and to give free turns to recover.
• Mention some of the things you'd bring Kyogre in on or set up on, like Mega Tyranitar
• Talk about the situations you'd use Leech Seed in, like against Shed and Imposter.
• Add in the second part that Giratina and Mega Slowbro also are helpful for handling other strong physical attackers that give Kyogre trouble.

Other Options

• I don't think Unaware is worth mentioning here, because there are bulkier things that can take on attackers better.
• I'd mention here that Freeze Dry and Spore can be used on the Poison Heal set. Freeze Dry makes it easier for Kyogre to deal with other Water types at the cost of power. It usually is still able to beat Imposter Chansey, since Freeze Dry doesn't do much without investment. Spore can put stuff to sleep, especially Chansey, PDon, and Mega Lati@s, all of which aren't KOed easily and hit hard in return with the exception of Chansey.
• You can choose to include Fur Coat here if you want, as it helps with Kyogre's lower Defense.
• I believe RegenVest Kyogre also deserves a mention, as a great special wall neutral to lots of attacks.

Checks and Counters

• PDon should have its own section here, because it can check most Kyogre variants with its ability, and hits like a truck in return.
• I suggest mentioning the Mega Lati@s specifically as well, because with Soul Dew they don't take too much from Ice Beam and deal a lot of damage with Psystrike

Imo the Blue Orb set should be removed, because it doesn't have much of an advantage over the Poison Heal set. (except maybe going mixed for the Water Shuriken) If you want you can move it to OO

QC [1/3]

 

[morogrim]

Updated and ready for the second QC! Tagging E4 Flint, Kingslayer2779, Piccolo Daimao, Pikachuun, and Uselesscrab

 

[E4 Flint]

Hey

Overall:

• Distinguish between which kind of Chansey you mean when you mention it. If you mean Imposter Chansey, I would just shorten that to Imposter

Overview:

• I would say both weaknesses are uncommon

Set Poison Heal

• Looks ok. Definitely include a version with more speed that can outspeed m2y with 158 +nature speed at +1 possibly in OO

Set Comments
Moves

• Kinda obvious but scald can spread status even to walls that it can't kill easily along with physical attackers

Usage Tips

• [Optional] IMO kyogre is a great cleaner after your primary wallbreaker has damaged most of the mons and/or you have spread status already. Early game setup often has to switch

Team Options

• Goes without saying but ates are good partners for ogre as well

Strategy Comments
Other Options:

• I think saying Freeze Dry doesn't make Kyoge Imposter weak is misleading since you mention that Moonblast, a neutral move, can risk it being less resistant to Imposter
• Here is partially where I mean you should distinguish between what you mean by Chansey. Spore is not really needed but it can help vs Imposter Chansey, while Spore can definitely help vs FC Chansey
• [Add]]DV can be used to hit walls with Goggles
• I don't think Metal Burst is good on Regen Ogre personally, I think it can be Night Shade, Nuzzle or even Dragon Tail
• Water Spout can be a decent attacking move for Imposter proofing on PH set
• Infestation can be used as another way to defeat Shed while also trapping unsuspecting switch-ins

Checks and Counters:

• PH Kyogre is actually a check for itself since it is pretty useless against itself. In general, bulky PH mons with phazing such as Giratina need a lot of boosts for kyogre to break

Verditct:
nice
[QC2/3]

 

[morogrim]

Hide

Hey

Overall:

• Distinguish between which kind of Chansey you mean when you mention it. If you mean Imposter Chansey, I would just shorten that to Imposter

Overview:

• I would say both weaknesses are uncommon

Set Poison Heal

• Looks ok. Definitely include a version with more speed that can outspeed m2y with 158 +nature speed at +1 possibly in OO

Set Comments
Moves

• Kinda obvious but scald can spread status even to walls that it can't kill easily along with physical attackers

Usage Tips

• [Optional] IMO kyogre is a great cleaner after your primary wallbreaker has damaged most of the mons and/or you have spread status already. Early game setup often has to switch

Team Options

• Goes without saying but ates are good partners for ogre as well

Strategy Comments
Other Options:

• I think saying Freeze Dry doesn't make Kyoge Imposter weak is misleading since you mention that Moonblast, a neutral move, can risk it being less resistant to Imposter
• Here is partially where I mean you should distinguish between what you mean by Chansey. Spore is not really needed but it can help vs Imposter Chansey, while Spore can definitely help vs FC Chansey
• [Add]]DV can be used to hit walls with Goggles
• I don't think Metal Burst is good on Regen Ogre personally, I think it can be Night Shade, Nuzzle or even Dragon Tail
• Water Spout can be a decent attacking move for Imposter proofing on PH set
• Infestation can be used as another way to defeat Shed while also trapping unsuspecting switch-ins

Checks and Counters:

• PH Kyogre is actually a check for itself since it is pretty useless against itself. In general, bulky PH mons with phazing such as Giratina need a lot of boosts for kyogre to break

Verditct:
nice
[QC2/3]

Implemented, thanks for the feedback! Just a question though, for the OO section is Water Spout a replacement for Scald or the coverage moveslot (aka Moonblast)?

Edit: Got the answer, yay

 

[morogrim]

We are ready for the third QC, tagging Kingslayer2779, Piccolo Daimao, Pikachuun, and Uselesscrab!

 

[morogrim]

It's been a while, gonna tag Kingslayer2779, Piccolo Daimao, Pikachuun, and Uselesscrab again

 

[Uselesscrab]

In the Overview, see if you can tighten up some of the sentences, as it feels a tiny bit ramble-ish at times, especially in the part about defensive typing. GP will also help with this maybe

In Moves, mention how Scald's high PP is especially useful because Imposters have limited PP, also add that the burns help deplete the health of Imposter Chansey
I wouldn't say that "Moonblast 'defeats' Water-types"; just say it provides a means of hitting them or something

In Usage Tips, add "to Knock Off" in the sentence about losing the Toxic Orb. The second mention of getting Toxic Orb activated seems a little redundant. Say that it "mostly results in being forced out" because of how common phazing moves are on Pokemon like Giratina, Chansey, etc or provide a different specific reason of your choice because that sentence sounds a little peculiar right now.

In Team Options, say "forced out" instead of "phazed" because some defensive Pokemon, e.g. those with Topsy-Turvy, can just sit around against Kyogre. Specify that Primal Groudon can set up because of Desolate Land.

In Other Options, say that Freeze Dry is a liability against Lucky Punch Imposter. When mentioning Water Spout, say that its unique HP-based mechanic is also an issue. Say that Fur Coat is useful against -ate users. Go ahead and add Taunt — I haven't seen it but it sounds good.

In C&C, I think the "Strong Physical Attackers" and "Fast Wallbreakers" sections should be merged into something like "Faster Attackers" and just remove Kyurem-B and Latios, the latter of which you mention later. Also add a specific move for Sceptile to use (i.e. Seed Flare).

QC 3/3

I did this in a different manner than usual so if you need clarification lmk. I will get to your other analysis later :)

 

[morogrim]

In the Overview, see if you can tighten up some of the sentences, as it feels a tiny bit ramble-ish at times, especially in the part about defensive typing. GP will also help with this maybe

In Moves, mention how Scald's high PP is especially useful because Imposters have limited PP, also add that the burns help deplete the health of Imposter Chansey
I wouldn't say that "Moonblast 'defeats' Water-types"; just say it provides a means of hitting them or something

In Usage Tips, add "to Knock Off" in the sentence about losing the Toxic Orb. The second mention of getting Toxic Orb activated seems a little redundant. Say that it "mostly results in being forced out" because of how common phazing moves are on Pokemon like Giratina, Chansey, etc or provide a different specific reason of your choice because that sentence sounds a little peculiar right now.

In Team Options, say "forced out" instead of "phazed" because some defensive Pokemon, e.g. those with Topsy-Turvy, can just sit around against Kyogre. Specify that Primal Groudon can set up because of Desolate Land.

In Other Options, say that Freeze Dry is a liability against Lucky Punch Imposter. When mentioning Water Spout, say that its unique HP-based mechanic is also an issue. Say that Fur Coat is useful against -ate users. Go ahead and add Taunt — I haven't seen it but it sounds good.

In C&C, I think the "Strong Physical Attackers" and "Fast Wallbreakers" sections should be merged into something like "Faster Attackers" and just remove Kyurem-B and Latios, the latter of which you mention later. Also add a specific move for Sceptile to use (i.e. Seed Flare).

QC 3/3

I did this in a different manner than usual so if you need clarification lmk. I will get to your other analysis later :)

Thanks for the feedback, I implemented most of what you mentioned. Just wanted to clarify something about your C&C comment, the reason why I had the 2 different sections was mainly due to the fact that the wallbreakers I mentioned were special attackers which isn't quite the same as a physical attacker. If you still think it's better to merge the two I'll do it though. Let me know what you think!

 

[Uselesscrab]

Thanks for the feedback, I implemented most of what you mentioned. Just wanted to clarify something about your C&C comment, the reason why I had the 2 different sections was mainly due to the fact that the wallbreakers I mentioned were special attackers which isn't quite the same as a physical attacker. If you still think it's better to merge the two I'll do it though. Let me know what you think!

Ok, leave the two but make it "Fast Special Wallbreakers" and just put Mega Mewtwo Y or something like it as a replacement for Mega Latios, which has its own section

 

[morogrim]

Ok, leave the two but make it "Fast Special Wallbreakers" and just put Mega Mewtwo Y or something like it as a replacement for Mega Latios, which has its own section

Done! Gonna queue this up for GP.

 

[Sobi]

hi

amcheck, implement what you like and don't implement what you don't like ^_^

remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)

kyOGRE hahahahahaha

[OVERVIEW]

Kyogre is the most specially bulky Water-type in Balanced Hackmons that is also capable of dealing high damage. With some investment in bulk, it is capable of surviving almost any one unboosted move in the metagame, (AC) which gives it the opportunity to set up. It is one of the best users of Scald in the metagame due to its base 150 Special Attack and STAB, and it only faces some competition from Palkia. Palkia , which has a better offensive typing due to its access to Dragon-type STAB, (AC) but Kyogre has better defensive typing and bulk. Kyogre's decent defensive typing in pure Water allows it to switch into many of the commonly used special moves in the game, such as Blue Flare, Steam Eruption, and Ice Beam. Kyogre's typing leaves it with 2 two weaknesses of to Electric and Grass, both of which are not too common in the metagame. Kyogre additionally takes neutral damage from Aerilate and Pixilate boosted moves Aerilate- and Pixilate-boosted moves and resists Refrigerate-boosted moves, which allows it to take even a Boomburst from these users and be able to retaliate. Kyogre also has a good offensive typing, (AC) as Water-type moves are only resisted by Water-, Dragon-, and the uncommon Grass-types. As a result, Kyogre is already automatically Imposter-resistant, (AC) as it resists its own type. Kyogre is however held back by its weaker Defense stat, (AC) as it does not appreciate taking hits from strong physical attackers such as Mega Mewtwo X. Its Speed stat also holds it back, (AC) as it needs to boost to at least +2 to outspeed relevant threats in the metagame such as Mega Gengar, Mega Mewtwo X, Mega Mewtwo Y, and Mega Rayquaza without any Speed investment.

[SET]
name: Poison Heal
move 1: Quiver Dance
move 2: Scald
move 3: Ice Beam / Moonblast / Leech Seed
move 4: King's Shield / Leech Seed
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Quiver Dance is the boosting move of choice, (AC) as it boosts Kyogre's already high Special Attack and Special Defense stats along with its Speed to higher levels. Scald is used as the STAB move and is preferred over Steam Eruption, (AC) as it has much higher PP and as a result, can be spammed to spread burns. It is also useful against Imposter users, (AC) as their moves will have 5 PP each, (AC) which means that Kyogre will have an easier time when it has a STAB move with 32 PP. Scald is also very useful for Kyogre, (AC) as the burns weaken physical attackers and makes make up for Kyogre's weaker Defense, (AC) and it also wears down walls that Kyogre cannot easily defeat, such as Giratina and Fur Coat Chansey. The third moveslot is dedicated to either an Ice- or Fairy- type Fairy-type coverage move or Leech Seed. Ice Beam has a 100% accuracy, (AC) and can kill KO Dragon-types, (AC) and can additionally OHKO Mega Rayquaza without any prior boosts, (AC) while Moonblast can defeat Water-types such as Palkia and Mega Gyarados. Moonblast does however have carry (you say "having" later so this avoids awkward repetition) the disadvantage of having a chance to lower Kyogre's Special Attack if an Imposter user uses it, and it also makes Kyogre vulnerable to Lucky Punch Imposter Chansey. (AP) (this sentence gets a bit too long imo) whereas However, (AC) Ice Beam does not have these disadvantages. Leech Seed can be used to deal with Shedinja and also defeat Imposter users such as Chansey and Blissey, (AC) since they have higher HP than Kyogre. King's Shield enables Kyogre to be able to defeat -ate users in addition to giving a free turn of passive recovery from Poison Heal. It also enables Kyogre to scout for the foe's moveset, (AC) but it does not block status such as sleep and burn from moves like Spore and Will-O-Wisp if Toxic Orb has not been activated yet. Leech Seed is also a good option for this moveslot if a coverage move was selected for the third moveslot.

Set Details
========

Toxic Orb allows Kyogre to activate Poison Heal, (AC) which prevents status conditions and also provides passive recovery. 248 EV points EVs are invested into HP to increase Kyogre's longevity and minimize Stealth Rock damage taken. A Bold nature along with 80 Defense EVs allows Kyogre to survive the Fake Out + and ("+" means combination, so you're saying "[the combination of] Fake Out and Extreme Speed combination") Extreme Speed combination from Aerilate Mega Rayquaza with Sky Plate without even using King's Shield (after Poison Heal Recovery). Alternatively, (AC) a Modest nature along with 40 Defense EVs can be chosen if King's Shield is chosen selected (repetition) as one of the moves to ensure surviving an Extreme Speed from a Life Orb Mega Rayquaza. The other 40 EV points EVs can either be dumped into Special Attack or into Special Defense. 180 Special Defense EVs guarantees that Kyogre will survive a Boomburst from a Life Orb Mega Rayquaza without fainting. A more offensive spread such as 248 HP / 40 Def / 72 SpA / 148 Spe can also be used with a Timid nature (preferably along with King's Shield) to enable Kyogre to outspeed up to ("up to x" is unnecessary because if it outspeeds +mmy, it obv outspeeds anything slower) positive-natured Mega Mewtwo Y after a single Quiver Dance boost.

Usage Tips
========

Bring Kyogre in on a slow pivot to safely activate Poison Heal, (RC) ; (ASC) this is absolutely crucial, (AC) as Kyogre cannot afford to lose its Toxic Orb (via moves such as Knock Off and Trick) or getting statused. Kyogre can easily set up on walls after activating Poison Heal, (RC) ; (ASC) however, (AC) be wary of Trick users, (AC) as they can easily cripple Kyogre by tricking a Choice item to it. Use Scald to burn walls that will phaze you Kyogre to get some chip damage on them and wear them down. ("to get chip damage on sth" means the same as "to wear sth down") King's Shield should be used to weaken physical attackers, get a free turn of passive recovery, or to scout for movesets. Be wary of opponents that could predict this and take that opportunity to set up. Kyogre can be brought in on walls such as Giratina or even bulky attackers such as Mega Tyranitar and set up, (RC) ; (ASC) however, (AC) make sure that your Kyogre's Toxic Orb has already been activated so that you do not risk getting statused. Leech Seed is the primary way of dealing with Shedinja, and it should also be used to defeat Imposter users, (AC) as their HP is higher than yours Kyogre's, (AC) so Kyogre's Leech Seed will end up doing more damage to the foe and healing heal Kyogre for a higher amount at the same time. Try to use Kyogre in the late game late-game after your wallbreakers have weakened the opponent's walls to set up and sweep, (RC) . (AP) setting Setting up in the early game early-game mostly results in being forced out, (AC) so it is better to just go for Scald burns early on.

Team Options
========

Kyogre appreciates wallbreakers such as Mega Latios, Mega Mewtwo X, and -ate users such as Mega Rayquaza to break down walls, (AC) as Kyogre is easily forced out by most of them. Kyogre also requires some support to be able to defeat Primal Groudon, which can actually set up on this set. Pokemon such as Mega Garchomp and Mega Swampert are good offensive answers, (AC) while Pokemon such as Fur Coat Giratina and Mega Slowbro are more defensive approaches. Additionally, Pokemon such as Giratina and Mega Slowbro can help deal with the physical attackers that Kyogre normally has trouble with.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Freeze Dry can be used for the Ice-type coverage at the expense of losing some power, (RC) ; (ASC) it can however help Kyogre deal with Water-types such as Palkia, (AC) and Mega Gyarados, (AC) and Mega Swampert more easily. It also does not make Kyogre terribly weak to Imposter users either, (AC) as Freeze Dry does not do much damage when uninvested. It is however a liability against the uncommon Lucky Punch Imposter Chansey, (AC) as critical hits ignore all positive stats changes of the foe. King's Shield can also be replaced with Spiky Shield so that Kyogre does not need slow pivot support to activate Toxic Orb but it comes at the expense of not being able to potentially weaken physical attackers with King's Shield. Spore can be used instead of in the fourth moveslot to put foes to sleep. This helps Kyogre defeat some threats such as Mega Latios, Mega Latias, Fur Coat Chansey, and Primal Groudon, none of which are easily KOed and can hit Kyogre hard in return (with the exception of Chansey). Dark Void may also be used to hit the walls holding Safety Goggles but at the expense of being slightly inaccurate having a bit less accuracy. Infestation can be used instead of Leech Seed to be able to still defeat Shedinja while also being able to trap unsuspecting switch-ins. Water Spout and Steam Eruption are also alternatives to Scald which that are Imposter-proof and also deal more damage at the expense of having much less PP. Water Spout also has the disadvantage of being HP reliant, (AC) so it Kyogre must be kept at high HP for it to remain effective. Taunt is another option for the fourth moveslot, (AC) which helps Kyogre defeat walls that normally force it out with utility moves such as Topsy-Turvy and Whirlwind, but it also has the disadvantage of making Kyogre a bit more vulnerable to Imposter users. (to be honest, "it has the disadvantage of...." is borderline fluff imo, you could remove it so that this reads as ", but it makes Kyogre...") Fur Coat is also an option (read above) for Kyogre, (AC) as it greatly helps in patching up its weaker Defense stat and can be used to deal with -ate users such as Mega Rayquaza and Mega Diancie. RegenVest may also be run on Kyogre, (AC) which takes advantage of its high Special Defense and makes it a great special wall, (RC) that is neutral to many attacks. In this case, (AC) Quiver Dance should be replaced with a pivoting move such as Volt Switch, (AC) and the fourth move should be changed to Night Shade, Nuzzle, or Dragon Tail. Moon Blast Moonblast is preferred for the third move.

Question for QC: Is Taunt worth mentioning here for the Poison Heal set?

Checks and Counters
===================

**Strong Physical Attackers**: Pokemon such as Mega Mewtwo X and Kyurem-B can easily KO Kyogre with the appropriate coverage move (such as Bolt Strike).

**Prankster Walls**: Walls such as Registeel and Giratina can ruin Kyogre's attempts at setting up with moves such as Encore, Topsy-Turvy, and Heart Swap but risk getting burned by Scald.

**Unaware Walls**: Unaware users such as Mega Audino can phaze Kyogre while ignoring its boosts but at the expense of potentially getting burned by Scald.

**Faster Special Wallbreakers**: Wallbreakers such as Mega Mewtwo Y and Mega Sceptile can threaten Kyogre before it sets up and force it out.

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon completely shuts Kyogre down with Desolate Land, (RC) and can deal large amounts of damage in return.

**Mega Latios and Mega Latias**: Mega Latias and Mega Latios can take Ice Beams pretty well thanks to Soul Dew and can hit Kyogre on its weaker defensive side with STAB Psystrikes.

**Bulky Poison Heal Users**: Poison Heal users such as Kyogre and Giratina are extremely hard to defeat and require many boosts to be able to break, especially if they carry phazing moves such as Whirlwind.

please let me know if the formatting is off, i tried a rather unorthodox method lol. oh and regarding the fluff in OO, it's up to you if it should be removed, it's not overly major (like "However, all is not good for x") but it still is fluff @_@

 

[morogrim]

hi

amcheck, implement what you like and don't implement what you don't like ^_^

remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)

kyOGRE hahahahahaha

[OVERVIEW]

Kyogre is the most specially bulky Water-type in Balanced Hackmons that is also capable of dealing high damage. With some investment in bulk, it is capable of surviving almost any one unboosted move in the metagame, (AC) which gives it the opportunity to set up. It is one of the best users of Scald in the metagame due to its base 150 Special Attack and STAB, and it only faces some competition from Palkia. Palkia , which has a better offensive typing due to its access to Dragon-type STAB, (AC) but Kyogre has better defensive typing and bulk. Kyogre's decent defensive typing in pure Water allows it to switch into many of the commonly used special moves in the game, such as Blue Flare, Steam Eruption, and Ice Beam. Kyogre's typing leaves it with 2 two weaknesses of to Electric and Grass, both of which are not too common in the metagame. Kyogre additionally takes neutral damage from Aerilate and Pixilate boosted moves Aerilate- and Pixilate-booted moves and resists Refrigerate-boosted moves, which allows it to take even a Boomburst from these users and be able to retaliate. Kyogre also has a good offensive typing, (AC) as Water-type moves are only resisted by Water-, Dragon-, and the uncommon Grass-types. As a result, Kyogre is already automatically Imposter-resistant, (AC) as it resists its own type. Kyogre is however held back by its weaker Defense stat, (AC) as it does not appreciate taking hits from strong physical attackers such as Mega Mewtwo X. Its Speed stat also holds it back, (AC) as it needs to boost to at least +2 to outspeed relevant threats in the metagame such as Mega Gengar, Mega Mewtwo X, Mega Mewtwo Y, and Mega Rayquaza without any Speed investment.

[SET]
name: Poison Heal
move 1: Quiver Dance
move 2: Scald
move 3: Ice Beam / Moonblast / Leech Seed
move 4: King's Shield / Leech Seed
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Quiver Dance is the boosting move of choice, (AC) as it boosts Kyogre's already high Special Attack and Special Defense stats along with its Speed to higher levels. Scald is used as the STAB move and is preferred over Steam Eruption, (AC) as it has much higher PP and as a result, can be spammed to spread burns. It is also useful against Imposter users, (AC) as their moves will have 5 PP each, (AC) which means that Kyogre will have an easier time when it has a STAB move with 32 PP. Scald is also very useful for Kyogre, (AC) as the burns weaken physical attackers and makes make up for Kyogre's weaker Defense, (AC) and it also wears down walls that Kyogre cannot easily defeat, such as Giratina and Fur Coat Chansey. The third moveslot is dedicated to either an Ice- or Fairy- type Fairy-type coverage move or Leech Seed. Ice Beam has a 100% accuracy, (AC) and can kill KO Dragon-types, (AC) and can additionally OHKO Mega Rayquaza without any prior boosts, (AC) while Moonblast can defeat Water-types such as Palkia and Mega Gyarados. Moonblast does however have carry (you say "having" later so this avoids awkward repetition) the disadvantage of having a chance to lower Kyogre's Special Attack if an Imposter user uses it, and it also makes Kyogre vulnerable to Lucky Punch Imposter Chansey. (AP) (this sentence gets a bit too long imo) whereas However, (AC) Ice Beam does not have these disadvantages. Leech Seed can be used to deal with Shedinja and also defeat Imposter users such as Chansey and Blissey, (AC) since they have higher HP than Kyogre. King's Shield enables Kyogre to be able to defeat -ate users in addition to giving a free turn of passive recovery from Poison Heal. It also enables Kyogre to scout for the foe's moveset, (AC) but it does not block status such as sleep and burn from moves like Spore and Will-O-Wisp if Toxic Orb has not been activated yet. Leech Seed is also a good option for this moveslot if a coverage move was selected for the third moveslot.

Set Details
========

Toxic Orb allows Kyogre to activate Poison Heal, (AC) which prevents status conditions and also provides passive recovery. 248 EV points EVs are invested into HP to increase Kyogre's longevity and minimize Stealth Rock damage taken. A Bold nature along with 80 Defense EVs allows Kyogre to survive the Fake Out + and ("+" means combination, so you're saying "[the combination of] Fake Out and Extreme Speed combination") Extreme Speed combination from Aerilate Mega Rayquaza with Sky Plate without even using King's Shield (after Poison Heal Recovery). Alternatively, (AC) a Modest nature along with 40 Defense EVs can be chosen if King's Shield is chosen selected (repetition) as one of the moves to ensure surviving an Extreme Speed from a Life Orb Mega Rayquaza. The other 40 EV points EVs can either be dumped into Special Attack or into Special Defense. 180 Special Defense EVs guarantees that Kyogre will survive a Boomburst from a Life Orb Mega Rayquaza without fainting. A more offensive spread such as 248 HP / 40 Def / 72 SpA / 148 Spe can also be used with a Timid nature (preferably along with King's Shield) to enable Kyogre to outspeed up to ("up to x" is unnecessary because if it outspeeds +mmy, it obv outspeeds anything slower) positive-natured Mega Mewtwo Y after a single Quiver Dance boost.

Usage Tips
========

Bring Kyogre in on a slow pivot to safely activate Poison Heal, (RC) ; (ASC) this is absolutely crucial, (AC) as Kyogre cannot afford to lose its Toxic Orb (via moves such as Knock Off and Trick) or getting statused. Kyogre can easily set up on walls after activating Poison Heal, (RC) ; (ASC) however, (AC) be wary of Trick users, (AC) as they can easily cripple Kyogre by tricking a Choice item to it. Use Scald to burn walls that will phaze you Kyogre to get some chip damage on them and wear them down. ("to get chip damage on sth" means the same as "to wear sth down") King's Shield should be used to weaken physical attackers, get a free turn of passive recovery, or to scout for movesets. Be wary of opponents that could predict this and take that opportunity to set up. Kyogre can be brought in on walls such as Giratina or even bulky attackers such as Mega Tyranitar and set up, (RC) ; (ASC) however, (AC) make sure that your Kyogre's Toxic Orb has already been activated so that you do not risk getting statused. Leech Seed is the primary way of dealing with Shedinja, and it should also be used to defeat Imposter users, (AC) as their HP is higher than yours Kyogre's, (AC) so Kyogre's Leech Seed will end up doing more damage to the foe and healing heal Kyogre for a higher amount at the same time. Try to use Kyogre in the late game late-game after your wallbreakers have weakened the opponent's walls to set up and sweep, (RC) . (AP) setting Setting up in the early game early-game mostly results in being forced out, (AC) so it is better to just go for Scald burns early on.

Team Options
========

Kyogre appreciates wallbreakers such as Mega Latios, Mega Mewtwo X, and -ate users such as Mega Rayquaza to break down walls, (AC) as Kyogre is easily forced out by most of them. Kyogre also requires some support to be able to defeat Primal Groudon, which can actually set up on this set. Pokemon such as Mega Garchomp and Mega Swampert are good offensive answers, (AC) while Pokemon such as Fur Coat Giratina and Mega Slowbro are more defensive approaches. Additionally, Pokemon such as Giratina and Mega Slowbro can help deal with the physical attackers that Kyogre normally has trouble with.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Freeze Dry can be used for the Ice-type coverage at the expense of losing some power, (RC) ; (ASC) it can however help Kyogre deal with Water-types such as Palkia, (AC) and Mega Gyarados, (AC) and Mega Swampert more easily. It also does not make Kyogre terribly weak to Imposter users either, (AC) as Freeze Dry does not do much damage when uninvested. It is however a liability against the uncommon Lucky Punch Imposter Chansey, (AC) as critical hits ignore all positive stats changes of the foe. King's Shield can also be replaced with Spiky Shield so that Kyogre does not need slow pivot support to activate Toxic Orb but it comes at the expense of not being able to potentially weaken physical attackers with King's Shield. Spore can be used instead of in the fourth moveslot to put foes to sleep. This helps Kyogre defeat some threats such as Mega Latios, Mega Latias, Fur Coat Chansey, and Primal Groudon, none of which are easily KOed and can hit Kyogre hard in return (with the exception of Chansey). Dark Void may also be used to hit the walls holding Safety Goggles but at the expense of being slightly inaccurate having a bit less accuracy. Infestation can be used instead of Leech Seed to be able to still defeat Shedinja while also being able to trap unsuspecting switch-ins. Water Spout and Steam Eruption are also alternatives to Scald which that are Imposter-proof and also deal more damage at the expense of having much less PP. Water Spout also has the disadvantage of being HP reliant, (AC) so it Kyogre must be kept at high HP for it to remain effective. Taunt is another option for the fourth moveslot, (AC) which helps Kyogre defeat walls that normally force it out with utility moves such as Topsy-Turvy and Whirlwind, but it also has the disadvantage of making Kyogre a bit more vulnerable to Imposter users. (to be honest, "it has the disadvantage of...." is borderline fluff imo, you could remove it so that this reads as ", but it makes Kyogre...") Fur Coat is also an option (read above) for Kyogre, (AC) as it greatly helps in patching up its weaker Defense stat and can be used to deal with -ate users such as Mega Rayquaza and Mega Diancie. RegenVest may also be run on Kyogre, (AC) which takes advantage of its high Special Defense and makes it a great special wall, (RC) that is neutral to many attacks. In this case, (AC) Quiver Dance should be replaced with a pivoting move such as Volt Switch, (AC) and the fourth move should be changed to Night Shade, Nuzzle, or Dragon Tail. Moon Blast Moonblast is preferred for the third move.

Question for QC: Is Taunt worth mentioning here for the Poison Heal set?

Checks and Counters
===================

**Strong Physical Attackers**: Pokemon such as Mega Mewtwo X and Kyurem-B can easily KO Kyogre with the appropriate coverage move (such as Bolt Strike).

**Prankster Walls**: Walls such as Registeel and Giratina can ruin Kyogre's attempts at setting up with moves such as Encore, Topsy-Turvy, and Heart Swap but risk getting burned by Scald.

**Unaware Walls**: Unaware users such as Mega Audino can phaze Kyogre while ignoring its boosts but at the expense of potentially getting burned by Scald.

**Faster Special Wallbreakers**: Wallbreakers such as Mega Mewtwo Y and Mega Sceptile can threaten Kyogre before it sets up and force it out.

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon completely shuts Kyogre down with Desolate Land, (RC) and can deal large amounts of damage in return.

**Mega Latios and Mega Latias**: Mega Latias and Mega Latios can take Ice Beams pretty well thanks to Soul Dew and can hit Kyogre on its weaker defensive side with STAB Psystrikes.

**Bulky Poison Heal Users**: Poison Heal users such as Kyogre and Giratina are extremely hard to defeat and require many boosts to be able to break, especially if they carry phazing moves such as Whirlwind.

please let me know if the formatting is off, i tried a rather unorthodox method lol. oh and regarding the fluff in OO, it's up to you if it should be removed, it's not overly major (like "However, all is not good for x") but it still is fluff @_@

Thanks for the feedback and will do!

 

[queez]

did this ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

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[OVERVIEW]

Kyogre is the most specially bulky Water-type in Balanced Hackmons that is also capable of dealing high damage. With some investment in bulk, it is capable of surviving almost any one unboosted move in the metagame,(add comma) which gives it the opportunity to set up. It is one of the best Scald users of Scald in the metagame due to its base 150 Special Attack and STAB,(remove comma) and only faces some competition from Palkia,.(period -> comma) which Palkia has a better offensive typing due to access to Dragon-type STAB moves; however, but Kyogre has better defensive typing and bulk. Kyogre's decent defensive typing in pure Water allows it to switch into many of the commonly used special moves in the game, such as Blue Flare, Steam Eruption, and Ice Beam. Kyogre's typing leaves it with only 2 weaknesses,(add comma) of Electric-(add hyphen) and Grass-type, both of which are not too common in the metagame. Kyogre additionally takes neutral damage from Aerilate and Pixilate boosted moves and resists Refrigerate, which allows it to take even a Boomburst from these users and be able to proceed to retaliate. Kyogre also has a good offensive typing,(add comma) as Water-type moves are only resisted by Water-, Dragon-, and the uncommon Grass-types. As a result, Kyogre is already automatically Imposter-resistant as because it resists its own type. Kyogre is,(add comma) however,(add comma) held back by its weaker Defense stat as it does not appreciate taking hits from strong physical attackers such as Mega Mewtwo X. Its Kyogre's Speed stat also holds it back;(add semicolon) as it needs to boost to at least +2 to outspeed relevant threats in the metagame such as Mega Gengar, Mega Mewtwo X, Mega Mewtwo Y, and Mega Rayquaza without any Speed investment.

[SET]
name: Poison Heal
move 1: Quiver Dance
move 2: Scald
move 3: Ice Beam / Moonblast / Leech Seed
move 4: King's Shield / Leech Seed
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Quiver Dance is the boosting move of choice as it boosts Kyogre's already high Special Attack and Special Defense stats along with its Speed to higher levels. Scald is used as the STAB move and is preferred over Steam Eruption as because it has much higher PP and,(add comma) as a result, can be spammed to spread burns. It Scald is also useful against Imposter users as because their moves will have 5 PP each which means that Kyogre will have an easier time when it has a STAB move with 32 PP. Scald is also very useful for Kyogre as the burns weaken physical attackers,(add comma) and makes making up for Kyogre's weaker Defense,(add comma) and it also wears wear down walls that Kyogre cannot easily defeat, such as Giratina and Fur Coat Chansey. The third moveslot is dedicated to either an Ice- or Fairy- type coverage move or Leech Seed. Ice Beam has a 100% accuracy and can kill KO Dragon-types and can additionally OHKO Mega Rayquaza without any prior boosts,(add comma) while Moonblast can defeat Water-types such as Palkia and Mega Gyarados. Moonblast does however have the disadvantage of having a chance to lower Kyogre's Special Attack if an Imposter user uses it,(remove comma) and also makes Kyogre vulnerable to Lucky Punch Imposter Chansey whereas Ice Beam does not have these disadvantages. Leech Seed can be used to deal with Shedinja and also to defeat common Imposter users such as Chansey and Blissey since they have higher HP than Kyogre. King's Shield enables Kyogre to be able to defeat -ate users in addition to giving a free turn of passive recovery from Poison Heal. It also enables Kyogre to scout for the foe's moveset but it does not block status such as sleep and burn from moves like such as Spore and Will-O-Wisp if Toxic Orb has not been activated yet. Leech Seed is also a good option for this moveslot if a coverage move was selected for the third moveslot.

Set Details
========

Toxic Orb allows Kyogre to activate Poison Heal,(add comma) which prevents status conditions and also provides passive recovery. 248 EVs(add s) points are invested into HP to increase Kyogre's longevity and minimize Stealth Rock damage taken. A Bold nature along with 80 Defense EVs allow Kyogre to survive the Fake Out + Extreme Speed combination from Aerilate Mega Rayquaza with Sky Plate without even using King's Shield (after Poison Heal Recovery). Alternatively,(add comma) a Modest nature along with 40 Defense EVs can be chosen if King's Shield is chosen as one of the moves to ensure surviving an Extreme Speed from a Life Orb Mega Rayquaza. The other 40 EV points can either be dumped into Special Attack or Special Defense. 180 Special Defense EVs guarantees that Kyogre will survive a Boomburst from a Life Orb Mega Rayquaza without fainting. A more offensive spread such as 248 HP / 40 Def / 72 SpA / 148 Spe can also be used with a Timid nature (preferably along with alongside King's Shield) to enable Kyogre to outspeed up to positive-natured Mega Mewtwo Y after a single Quiver Dance boost.

Usage Tips
========

Bring Kyogre in on a slow pivot to safely activate Poison Heal,.(comma -> period) T(capital T)his is absolutely crucial as because Kyogre cannot afford to lose its Toxic Orb (via moves such as Knock Off and Trick) or getting get statused. Kyogre can easily set up on walls after activating Poison Heal,;(comma -> semicolon) however,(add comma) be wary of Trick users,(add comma) as they can easily cripple Kyogre by tricking a Choice item to onto it. Use Scald to burn walls that will phaze you to get some chip damage on them and wear them down. King's Shield should be used to weaken physical attackers, get a free turn of passive recovery, or to scout for movesets. Be wary of opponents that could predict this and take that opportunity to set up. Kyogre can be brought in on walls such as Giratina or even bulky attackers such as Mega Tyranitar and to set up,;(comma -> semicolon) however,(add comma) make sure that your Toxic Orb has already been activated so you do Kyogre does not risk getting statused. Leech Seed,(add comma) is the primary way of dealing with Shedinja, it should also be used to defeat Imposter users,(add comma) as their HP is higher than yours Kyogre's so Kyogre's Leech Seed will end up doing more damage to the foe and healing Kyogre for a higher amount at the same time. Try to use Kyogre in the late game after your wallbreakers have weakened the opponent's walls to set up and sweep,.(comma -> period) S(capital s)etting up in the early game mostly results in being forced out ,(add comma) so it is better to just go for Scald burns early on.

Team Options
========

Kyogre appreciates wallbreakers such as Mega Latios, Mega Mewtwo X, and -ate users such as Mega Rayquaza to break down walls,(add comma) as Kyogre is easily forced out by most of them. Kyogre also requires some support to be able to defeat Primal Groudon, which can actually set up on this set. (what kind of Pokemon? physically powerful?) Pokemon such as Mega Garchomp and Mega Swampert are good offensive answers,(add comma) while (again, it's good to provide some specification. what kind of pokemon? this might be a nitpick of mine though. sorry) Pokemon such as Fur Coat Giratina and Mega Slowbro are more defensive approaches. Additionally, (see last two comments) Pokemon such as Giratina and Mega Slowbro can help deal with the physical attackers that Kyogre normally has trouble with.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Freeze Dry can be used for the Ice-type coverage at the expense of losing some power,;(comma -> semicolon) it can,(add comma) however,(add comma) help Kyogre deal with Water-types such as Palkia,(add comma) and Mega Gyarados,(add comma) and Mega Swampert more easily. It also does not make Kyogre terribly weak to Imposter users either,(add comma) as Freeze Dry does not do much damage when uninvested. It Freeze Dry is,(add comma) however,(add comma) a liability against the uncommon Lucky Punch Imposter Chansey,(add comma) as critical hits ignore all positive stats changes of the foe. King's Shield can also be replaced with Spiky Shield so Kyogre does not need slow pivot support to activate Toxic Orb but at the expense of not being able to potentially weaken physical attackers with King's Shield. Spore can be used instead of in the fourth moveslot to put foes to sleep. This helps Kyogre defeat some threats such as Mega Latios, Mega Latias, Fur Coat Chansey, and Primal Groudon, none of which are easily KOed and can hit Kyogre hard in return (with the exception of Chansey). Dark Void may also be used to hit the walls holding Safety Goggles but at the expense of having a bit less accuracy. Infestation can be used intead instead of Leech Seed to be able to still defeat Shedinja while also being able to trap unsuspecting switch-ins. Water Spout and Steam Eruption are also alternatives to Scald,(add comma) both of which are Imposter-proof and also deal more damage at the expense of having much less PP. Water Spout also has the disadvantage of being HP reliant,(add comma) so Kyogre must be kept at high HP for it to remain effective. Taunt,(add comma) is another option for the fourth moveslot,(add comma) which helps Kyogre defeat walls that normally force it out with utility moves such as Topsy-Turvy and Whirlwind, but also has the disadvantage of making Kyogre a bit more vulnerable to Imposter users. Fur Coat is also an option for Kyogre,(add comma) as it greatly helps in patching up its weaker Defense stat and can be used to deal with -ate users such as Mega Rayquaza and Mega Diancie. RegenVest may also be run on Kyogre which takes advantage of its Kyogre's high Special Defense and makes it a great special wall, neutral to many attacks. In this case,(add comma) Quiver Dance should be replaced with a pivoting move such as Volt Switch and the fourth move should be changed to Night Shade, Nuzzle, or Dragon Tail.,(period -> comma) Moon Blast while Moonblast is preferred for the third move.

Question for QC: Is Taunt worth mentioning here for the Poison Heal set?

Checks and Counters
===================

**Strong Physical Attackers**: Pokemon (don't just say Pokemon lol) Powerful physical foes such as Mega Mewtwo X and Kyurem-B can easily KO Kyogre with the appropriate a strong coverage move (such as Bolt Strike).

**Prankster Walls**: Walls such as Registeel and Giratina can ruin Kyogre's attempts at setting up with moves such as Encore, Topsy-Turvy, and Heart Swap,(add comma) but risk getting burned by Scald.

**Unaware Walls**: Unaware users such as Mega Audino can phaze Kyogre while ignoring its boosts,(add comma) but risk at the expense of potentially getting burned by Scald.

**Faster Special Wallbreakers**: Wallbreakers such as Mega Mewtwo Y and Mega Sceptile can threaten Kyogre before it sets up and force it out.

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon completely shuts Kyogre down with Desolate Land,(remove comma) and can deal large amounts of damage in return.

**Mega Latios and Mega Latias**: Mega Latias and Mega Latios can take Ice Beams pretty well thanks to Soul Dew and can hit Kyogre on its weaker defensive side with STAB Psystrikes.

**Bulky Poison Heal Users**: Poison Heal users such as Kyogre and Giratina are extremely hard to defeat,(add comma) and Kyogre requires require many boosts to be able to break them, especially if they carry phazing moves such as Whirlwind.

sorry this took so long. I fell asleep :')
let me know if you have any questions! I'd be glad to answer them
GP 1/2

 

[morogrim]

did this ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

Additions
Removals
Comments

Hide

[OVERVIEW]

Kyogre is the most specially bulky Water-type in Balanced Hackmons that is also capable of dealing high damage. With some investment in bulk, it is capable of surviving almost any one unboosted move in the metagame,(add comma) which gives it the opportunity to set up. It is one of the best Scald users of Scald in the metagame due to its base 150 Special Attack and STAB,(remove comma) and only faces some competition from Palkia,.(period -> comma) which Palkia has a better offensive typing due to access to Dragon-type STAB moves; however, but Kyogre has better defensive typing and bulk. Kyogre's decent defensive typing in pure Water allows it to switch into many of the commonly used special moves in the game, such as Blue Flare, Steam Eruption, and Ice Beam. Kyogre's typing leaves it with only 2 weaknesses,(add comma) of Electric-(add hyphen) and Grass-type, both of which are not too common in the metagame. Kyogre additionally takes neutral damage from Aerilate and Pixilate boosted moves and resists Refrigerate, which allows it to take even a Boomburst from these users and be able to proceed to retaliate. Kyogre also has a good offensive typing,(add comma) as Water-type moves are only resisted by Water-, Dragon-, and the uncommon Grass-types. As a result, Kyogre is already automatically Imposter-resistant as because it resists its own type. Kyogre is,(add comma) however,(add comma) held back by its weaker Defense stat as it does not appreciate taking hits from strong physical attackers such as Mega Mewtwo X. Its Kyogre's Speed stat also holds it back;(add semicolon) as it needs to boost to at least +2 to outspeed relevant threats in the metagame such as Mega Gengar, Mega Mewtwo X, Mega Mewtwo Y, and Mega Rayquaza without any Speed investment.

[SET]
name: Poison Heal
move 1: Quiver Dance
move 2: Scald
move 3: Ice Beam / Moonblast / Leech Seed
move 4: King's Shield / Leech Seed
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Quiver Dance is the boosting move of choice as it boosts Kyogre's already high Special Attack and Special Defense stats along with its Speed to higher levels. Scald is used as the STAB move and is preferred over Steam Eruption as because it has much higher PP and,(add comma) as a result, can be spammed to spread burns. It Scald is also useful against Imposter users as because their moves will have 5 PP each which means that Kyogre will have an easier time when it has a STAB move with 32 PP. Scald is also very useful for Kyogre as the burns weaken physical attackers,(add comma) and makes making up for Kyogre's weaker Defense,(add comma) and it also wears wear down walls that Kyogre cannot easily defeat, such as Giratina and Fur Coat Chansey. The third moveslot is dedicated to either an Ice- or Fairy- type coverage move or Leech Seed. Ice Beam has a 100% accuracy and can kill KO Dragon-types and can additionally OHKO Mega Rayquaza without any prior boosts,(add comma) while Moonblast can defeat Water-types such as Palkia and Mega Gyarados. Moonblast does however have the disadvantage of having a chance to lower Kyogre's Special Attack if an Imposter user uses it,(remove comma) and also makes Kyogre vulnerable to Lucky Punch Imposter Chansey whereas Ice Beam does not have these disadvantages. Leech Seed can be used to deal with Shedinja and also to defeat common Imposter users such as Chansey and Blissey since they have higher HP than Kyogre. King's Shield enables Kyogre to be able to defeat -ate users in addition to giving a free turn of passive recovery from Poison Heal. It also enables Kyogre to scout for the foe's moveset but it does not block status such as sleep and burn from moves like such as Spore and Will-O-Wisp if Toxic Orb has not been activated yet. Leech Seed is also a good option for this moveslot if a coverage move was selected for the third moveslot.

Set Details
========

Toxic Orb allows Kyogre to activate Poison Heal,(add comma) which prevents status conditions and also provides passive recovery. 248 EVs(add s) points are invested into HP to increase Kyogre's longevity and minimize Stealth Rock damage taken. A Bold nature along with 80 Defense EVs allow Kyogre to survive the Fake Out + Extreme Speed combination from Aerilate Mega Rayquaza with Sky Plate without even using King's Shield (after Poison Heal Recovery). Alternatively,(add comma) a Modest nature along with 40 Defense EVs can be chosen if King's Shield is chosen as one of the moves to ensure surviving an Extreme Speed from a Life Orb Mega Rayquaza. The other 40 EV points can either be dumped into Special Attack or Special Defense. 180 Special Defense EVs guarantees that Kyogre will survive a Boomburst from a Life Orb Mega Rayquaza without fainting. A more offensive spread such as 248 HP / 40 Def / 72 SpA / 148 Spe can also be used with a Timid nature (preferably along with alongside King's Shield) to enable Kyogre to outspeed up to positive-natured Mega Mewtwo Y after a single Quiver Dance boost.

Usage Tips
========

Bring Kyogre in on a slow pivot to safely activate Poison Heal,.(comma -> period) T(capital T)his is absolutely crucial as because Kyogre cannot afford to lose its Toxic Orb (via moves such as Knock Off and Trick) or getting get statused. Kyogre can easily set up on walls after activating Poison Heal,;(comma -> semicolon) however,(add comma) be wary of Trick users,(add comma) as they can easily cripple Kyogre by tricking a Choice item to onto it. Use Scald to burn walls that will phaze you to get some chip damage on them and wear them down. King's Shield should be used to weaken physical attackers, get a free turn of passive recovery, or to scout for movesets. Be wary of opponents that could predict this and take that opportunity to set up. Kyogre can be brought in on walls such as Giratina or even bulky attackers such as Mega Tyranitar and to set up,;(comma -> semicolon) however,(add comma) make sure that your Toxic Orb has already been activated so you do Kyogre does not risk getting statused. Leech Seed,(add comma) is the primary way of dealing with Shedinja, it should also be used to defeat Imposter users,(add comma) as their HP is higher than yours Kyogre's so Kyogre's Leech Seed will end up doing more damage to the foe and healing Kyogre for a higher amount at the same time. Try to use Kyogre in the late game after your wallbreakers have weakened the opponent's walls to set up and sweep,.(comma -> period) S(capital s)etting up in the early game mostly results in being forced out ,(add comma) so it is better to just go for Scald burns early on.

Team Options
========

Kyogre appreciates wallbreakers such as Mega Latios, Mega Mewtwo X, and -ate users such as Mega Rayquaza to break down walls,(add comma) as Kyogre is easily forced out by most of them. Kyogre also requires some support to be able to defeat Primal Groudon, which can actually set up on this set. (what kind of Pokemon? physically powerful?) Pokemon such as Mega Garchomp and Mega Swampert are good offensive answers,(add comma) while (again, it's good to provide some specification. what kind of pokemon? this might be a nitpick of mine though. sorry) Pokemon such as Fur Coat Giratina and Mega Slowbro are more defensive approaches. Additionally, (see last two comments) Pokemon such as Giratina and Mega Slowbro can help deal with the physical attackers that Kyogre normally has trouble with.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Freeze Dry can be used for the Ice-type coverage at the expense of losing some power,;(comma -> semicolon) it can,(add comma) however,(add comma) help Kyogre deal with Water-types such as Palkia,(add comma) and Mega Gyarados,(add comma) and Mega Swampert more easily. It also does not make Kyogre terribly weak to Imposter users either,(add comma) as Freeze Dry does not do much damage when uninvested. It Freeze Dry is,(add comma) however,(add comma) a liability against the uncommon Lucky Punch Imposter Chansey,(add comma) as critical hits ignore all positive stats changes of the foe. King's Shield can also be replaced with Spiky Shield so Kyogre does not need slow pivot support to activate Toxic Orb but at the expense of not being able to potentially weaken physical attackers with King's Shield. Spore can be used instead of in the fourth moveslot to put foes to sleep. This helps Kyogre defeat some threats such as Mega Latios, Mega Latias, Fur Coat Chansey, and Primal Groudon, none of which are easily KOed and can hit Kyogre hard in return (with the exception of Chansey). Dark Void may also be used to hit the walls holding Safety Goggles but at the expense of having a bit less accuracy. Infestation can be used intead instead of Leech Seed to be able to still defeat Shedinja while also being able to trap unsuspecting switch-ins. Water Spout and Steam Eruption are also alternatives to Scald,(add comma) both of which are Imposter-proof and also deal more damage at the expense of having much less PP. Water Spout also has the disadvantage of being HP reliant,(add comma) so Kyogre must be kept at high HP for it to remain effective. Taunt,(add comma) is another option for the fourth moveslot,(add comma) which helps Kyogre defeat walls that normally force it out with utility moves such as Topsy-Turvy and Whirlwind, but also has the disadvantage of making Kyogre a bit more vulnerable to Imposter users. Fur Coat is also an option for Kyogre,(add comma) as it greatly helps in patching up its weaker Defense stat and can be used to deal with -ate users such as Mega Rayquaza and Mega Diancie. RegenVest may also be run on Kyogre which takes advantage of its Kyogre's high Special Defense and makes it a great special wall, neutral to many attacks. In this case,(add comma) Quiver Dance should be replaced with a pivoting move such as Volt Switch and the fourth move should be changed to Night Shade, Nuzzle, or Dragon Tail.,(period -> comma) Moon Blast while Moonblast is preferred for the third move.

Question for QC: Is Taunt worth mentioning here for the Poison Heal set?

Checks and Counters
===================

**Strong Physical Attackers**: Pokemon (don't just say Pokemon lol) Powerful physical foes such as Mega Mewtwo X and Kyurem-B can easily KO Kyogre with the appropriate a strong coverage move (such as Bolt Strike).

**Prankster Walls**: Walls such as Registeel and Giratina can ruin Kyogre's attempts at setting up with moves such as Encore, Topsy-Turvy, and Heart Swap,(add comma) but risk getting burned by Scald.

**Unaware Walls**: Unaware users such as Mega Audino can phaze Kyogre while ignoring its boosts,(add comma) but risk at the expense of potentially getting burned by Scald.

**Faster Special Wallbreakers**: Wallbreakers such as Mega Mewtwo Y and Mega Sceptile can threaten Kyogre before it sets up and force it out.

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon completely shuts Kyogre down with Desolate Land,(remove comma) and can deal large amounts of damage in return.

**Mega Latios and Mega Latias**: Mega Latias and Mega Latios can take Ice Beams pretty well thanks to Soul Dew and can hit Kyogre on its weaker defensive side with STAB Psystrikes.

**Bulky Poison Heal Users**: Poison Heal users such as Kyogre and Giratina are extremely hard to defeat,(add comma) and Kyogre requires require many boosts to be able to break them, especially if they carry phazing moves such as Whirlwind.

sorry this took so long. I fell asleep :')
let me know if you have any questions! I'd be glad to answer them
GP 1/2

Thanks, everything is implemented! Just to clarify on the questions you were asking, Pdon has a pretty standard set which is physical and I think it was acceptable not to go much more into detail about it as almost everyone knows that set. Same goes for the other cases, but I will ask the QC what they think. Thanks again!

 

[Haund]

add remove comments

Hide

[OVERVIEW]

Kyogre is the most specially bulky Water-type in Balanced Hackmons that is also capable of dealing high damage. With some investment in bulk, it is capable of surviving almost any unboosted move in the metagame, which gives it the opportunity to set up. up quite reliably. It is one of the best Scald users in the metagame due to its base 150 Special Attack and STAB and only faces some competition from Palkia, which has a better offensive typing anyway due to its secondary Dragon typing; Dragon-type STAB moves; however, Kyogre has better defensive typing and superior bulk. Kyogre's decent defensive typing allows it to switch into many of the commonly used special moves in the game, such as Blue Flare, Steam Eruption, and Ice Beam. Kyogre's typing leaves it with only 2 two weaknesses, Electric- Electric and Grass-type, Grass, both of which are not too common in the metagame. Kyogre additionally takes neutral damage from Aerilate- and Pixilate-boosted Aerilate and Pixilate boosted moves and but resists Ice, Refrigerate, which allows it to take even a Boomburst from these Refrigerate users and proceed to retaliate. Kyogre also has a good offensive typing, as Water-type moves are only resisted by Water-, Dragon-, and the uncommon Grass-types. As a result, Kyogre is already Imposter-resistant because it resists its own type. Kyogre is, however, held back by its weaker lower Defense. Kyogre's Speed stat also holds it hinders it, as back; it needs to boost to at least +2 to outspeed relevant threats in the metagame such as Mega Gengar, Mega Mewtwo X, Mega Mewtwo Y, and Mega Rayquaza without any Speed investment.

[SET]
name: Poison Heal
move 1: Quiver Dance
move 2: Scald
move 3: Ice Beam / Moonblast / Leech Seed
move 4: King's Shield / Leech Seed
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Quiver Dance boosts Kyogre's already high Special Attack and Special Defense stats along with its Speed. Scald is preferred over Steam Eruption because it has much higher PP, and as a result, it can be spammed to spread burns. Scald is also useful against Imposter users because their moves will have 5 PP each. Scald burns weaken physical attackers, making up for Kyogre's weaker low Defense, and it also wear down walls that Kyogre cannot easily defeat, such as Giratina and Fur Coat Chansey. The third moveslot is dedicated to either an Ice- or Fairy- Fairy-type type coverage move or Leech Seed. Ice Beam has 100% accuracy and can KO Dragon-types and OHKO Mega Rayquaza without any prior boosts, while Moonblast can defeat Water-types such as Palkia and Mega Gyarados. Moonblast Moonblast, though, does have the disadvantage of having a chance to lower Kyogre's Special Attack if an Imposter user uses it and also makes Kyogre vulnerable to Lucky Punch Imposter Chansey. Leech Seed can be used to deal with Shedinja and to defeat Imposter users such as Chansey and Blissey since they have higher HP than Kyogre. King's Shield enables Kyogre to be able to defeat -ate users in addition to giving a free turn of passive recovery from Poison Heal. It also enables allows Kyogre to scout for the foe's moveset but does not block status such as sleep and burn from moves such as Spore and Will-O-Wisp if Toxic Orb has not been activated yet. Leech Seed is also a good option for this moveslot if a coverage move was selected for the third moveslot.

Set Details
========

Toxic Orb allows Kyogre to activate Poison Heal, which prevents status conditions and also provides passive recovery. 248 EVs are invested into HP to increase Kyogre's longevity and minimize Stealth Rock damage taken. A Bold nature along with 80 Defense EVs allow allows Kyogre to survive the Fake Out + Extreme Speed combination from Aerilate Mega Rayquaza with Sky Plate without even using King's Shield (after Poison Heal Recovery). Alternatively, a Modest nature along with 40 Defense EVs can be chosen run if King's Shield is chosen as one of the moves to ensure surviving an Extreme Speed from a Life Orb Mega Rayquaza. The other 40 EV points can either be dumped into Special Attack or Special Defense. 180 Special Defense EVs guarantees that Kyogre will survive a Boomburst from a Life Orb Mega Rayquaza without fainting. A more offensive spread such as 248 HP / 40 Def / 72 SpA / 148 Spe can also be used with a Timid nature (preferably alongside King's Shield) to enable Kyogre to outspeed up to positive-natured Mega Mewtwo Y after a single Quiver Dance boost.

Usage Tips
========

Bring Kyogre in on with a slow pivot to safely activate Poison Heal. This is absolutely crucial because Kyogre cannot afford to lose its Toxic Orb (via via moves such as Knock Off and Trick) Trick or get statused. Kyogre can easily set up on walls after activating Poison Heal; however, be wary of Trick users, as they can easily cripple Kyogre by tricking a Choice item onto it. Use Scald to burn walls that will use a phaze phazing move to get some chip damage on them and wear them down. King's Shield should be used to weaken physical attackers, get a free turn of passive recovery, or scout for movesets. Be wary of opponents that could predict this and take that opportunity to set up. Kyogre can be brought in on walls such as Giratina or even bulky attackers such as Mega Tyranitar to set up; however, make sure that Toxic Orb has already been activated so that Kyogre does not risk getting statused. Leech Seed, the primary way of dealing with Shedinja, should also be used to defeat Imposter users, as their HP is higher than Kyogre's. Try to use Kyogre in the late game late-game after your wallbreakers have weakened the opponent's walls to set up and sweep. Setting up in the early game early-game mostly results in Kyogre being forced out, so it is better to just go for Scald burns early on.

Team Options
========

Kyogre appreciates wallbreakers such as Mega Latios, Mega Mewtwo X, and -ate users such as Mega Rayquaza to break down walls, as Kyogre is easily forced out by most of them. Kyogre also requires some support to be able to defeat Primal Groudon, which can actually set up on this set. Pokemon such as Mega Garchomp and Mega Swampert are good offensive answers, while Pokemon such as Fur Coat Giratina and Mega Slowbro are more defensive approaches. Additionally, Pokemon such as Giratina and Mega Slowbro can help deal with the physical attackers that Kyogre normally has trouble with.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Freeze Dry can be used for Ice-type coverage at the expense of losing some power; it can, however, help Kyogre deal with Water-types such as Palkia, Mega Gyarados, and Mega Swampert more easily. It also does not make Kyogre terribly weak to Imposter users either, as Freeze Dry does not do much damage when uninvested. Freeze Dry is, however, a liability against the uncommon Lucky Punch Imposter Chansey, as critical hits ignore all positive stats changes of the foe. King's Shield can also be replaced with Spiky Shield so that Kyogre does not need a slow pivot support to activate Toxic Orb Orb, though this comes at the expense of not being able to potentially weaken physical attackers with King's Shield. Spore can be used instead in the fourth moveslot to put foes to sleep. This helps Kyogre defeat some threats such as Mega Latios, Mega Latias, Fur Coat Chansey, and Primal Groudon, none of which are easily KOed and can hit Kyogre hard in return (with the exception of Chansey). Dark Void may also be used to hit walls holding Safety Goggles at the expense of having a bit less accuracy. Infestation can be used instead of Leech Seed to be able to still defeat Shedinja while also being able to trap unsuspecting switch-ins. Water Spout and Steam Eruption are alternatives to Scald, both of which Scald that are Imposter-proof and also deal more damage at the expense of having much many less fewer PP. Water Spout has the disadvantage of being HP-reliant, HP reliant, so Kyogre must be kept at high HP for it to remain effective. Taunt, another option for the fourth moveslot, helps Kyogre defeat walls that normally force it out with utility moves such as Topsy-Turvy and Whirlwind, but it also has the disadvantage of making Kyogre a bit more vulnerable to Imposter users. Fur Coat is also an option for Kyogre, as it greatly helps in patching up its weaker Defense stat and can be used to deal with -ate users such as Mega Rayquaza and Mega Diancie. RegenVest takes advantage of Kyogre's high Special Defense and makes it a great special wall, neutral to many attacks. In this case, Quiver Dance should be replaced with a pivoting move such as Volt Switch and the fourth move should be changed to Night Shade, Nuzzle, or Dragon Tail, while Moon Blast Moonblast is preferred for the third move.


Checks and Counters
===================

**Strong Physical Attackers**: Powerful physical foes such as Mega Mewtwo X and Kyurem-B can easily KO Kyogre with a strong coverage move such as Bolt Strike.

**Prankster Walls**: Walls such as Registeel and Giratina can ruin Kyogre's attempts at setting up with moves such as Encore, Topsy-Turvy, and Heart Swap, but they risk getting burned by Scald.

**Unaware Walls**: Unaware users such as Mega Audino can phaze Kyogre while ignoring its boosts, but they risk getting burned by Scald.

**Faster Special Wallbreakers**: Wallbreakers such as Mega Mewtwo Y and Mega Sceptile can threaten Kyogre before it sets up and force it out.

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon completely shuts Kyogre down with Desolate Land and can deal large amounts of damage to it. in return.

**Mega Latios and Mega Latias**: Mega Latias Latios and Mega Latios Latias can take Ice Beams pretty well thanks to Soul Dew and can hit Kyogre on its weaker defensive side with STAB Psystrikes.

**Bulky Poison Heal Users**: Poison Heal users such as Kyogre and Giratina are extremely hard to defeat, and Kyogre requires many boosts to be able to break them, especially if they carry phazing moves such as Whirlwind.

2/2

 

[morogrim]

add remove comments

Hide

[OVERVIEW]

Kyogre is the most specially bulky Water-type in Balanced Hackmons that is also capable of dealing high damage. With some investment in bulk, it is capable of surviving almost any unboosted move in the metagame, which gives it the opportunity to set up. up quite reliably. It is one of the best Scald users in the metagame due to its base 150 Special Attack and STAB and only faces some competition from Palkia, which has a better offensive typing anyway due to its secondary Dragon typing; Dragon-type STAB moves; however, Kyogre has better defensive typing and superior bulk. Kyogre's decent defensive typing allows it to switch into many of the commonly used special moves in the game, such as Blue Flare, Steam Eruption, and Ice Beam. Kyogre's typing leaves it with only 2 two weaknesses, Electric- Electric and Grass-type, Grass, both of which are not too common in the metagame. Kyogre additionally takes neutral damage from Aerilate- and Pixilate-boosted Aerilate and Pixilate boosted moves and but resists Ice, Refrigerate, which allows it to take even a Boomburst from these Refrigerate users and proceed to retaliate. Kyogre also has a good offensive typing, as Water-type moves are only resisted by Water-, Dragon-, and the uncommon Grass-types. As a result, Kyogre is already Imposter-resistant because it resists its own type. Kyogre is, however, held back by its weaker lower Defense. Kyogre's Speed stat also holds it hinders it, as back; it needs to boost to at least +2 to outspeed relevant threats in the metagame such as Mega Gengar, Mega Mewtwo X, Mega Mewtwo Y, and Mega Rayquaza without any Speed investment.

[SET]
name: Poison Heal
move 1: Quiver Dance
move 2: Scald
move 3: Ice Beam / Moonblast / Leech Seed
move 4: King's Shield / Leech Seed
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Quiver Dance boosts Kyogre's already high Special Attack and Special Defense stats along with its Speed. Scald is preferred over Steam Eruption because it has much higher PP, and as a result, it can be spammed to spread burns. Scald is also useful against Imposter users because their moves will have 5 PP each. Scald burns weaken physical attackers, making up for Kyogre's weaker low Defense, and it also wear down walls that Kyogre cannot easily defeat, such as Giratina and Fur Coat Chansey. The third moveslot is dedicated to either an Ice- or Fairy- Fairy-type type coverage move or Leech Seed. Ice Beam has 100% accuracy and can KO Dragon-types and OHKO Mega Rayquaza without any prior boosts, while Moonblast can defeat Water-types such as Palkia and Mega Gyarados. Moonblast Moonblast, though, does have the disadvantage of having a chance to lower Kyogre's Special Attack if an Imposter user uses it and also makes Kyogre vulnerable to Lucky Punch Imposter Chansey. Leech Seed can be used to deal with Shedinja and to defeat Imposter users such as Chansey and Blissey since they have higher HP than Kyogre. King's Shield enables Kyogre to be able to defeat -ate users in addition to giving a free turn of passive recovery from Poison Heal. It also enables allows Kyogre to scout for the foe's moveset but does not block status such as sleep and burn from moves such as Spore and Will-O-Wisp if Toxic Orb has not been activated yet. Leech Seed is also a good option for this moveslot if a coverage move was selected for the third moveslot.

Set Details
========

Toxic Orb allows Kyogre to activate Poison Heal, which prevents status conditions and also provides passive recovery. 248 EVs are invested into HP to increase Kyogre's longevity and minimize Stealth Rock damage taken. A Bold nature along with 80 Defense EVs allow allows Kyogre to survive the Fake Out + Extreme Speed combination from Aerilate Mega Rayquaza with Sky Plate without even using King's Shield (after Poison Heal Recovery). Alternatively, a Modest nature along with 40 Defense EVs can be chosen run if King's Shield is chosen as one of the moves to ensure surviving an Extreme Speed from a Life Orb Mega Rayquaza. The other 40 EV points can either be dumped into Special Attack or Special Defense. 180 Special Defense EVs guarantees that Kyogre will survive a Boomburst from a Life Orb Mega Rayquaza without fainting. A more offensive spread such as 248 HP / 40 Def / 72 SpA / 148 Spe can also be used with a Timid nature (preferably alongside King's Shield) to enable Kyogre to outspeed up to positive-natured Mega Mewtwo Y after a single Quiver Dance boost.

Usage Tips
========

Bring Kyogre in on with a slow pivot to safely activate Poison Heal. This is absolutely crucial because Kyogre cannot afford to lose its Toxic Orb (via via moves such as Knock Off and Trick) Trick or get statused. Kyogre can easily set up on walls after activating Poison Heal; however, be wary of Trick users, as they can easily cripple Kyogre by tricking a Choice item onto it. Use Scald to burn walls that will use a phaze phazing move to get some chip damage on them and wear them down. King's Shield should be used to weaken physical attackers, get a free turn of passive recovery, or scout for movesets. Be wary of opponents that could predict this and take that opportunity to set up. Kyogre can be brought in on walls such as Giratina or even bulky attackers such as Mega Tyranitar to set up; however, make sure that Toxic Orb has already been activated so that Kyogre does not risk getting statused. Leech Seed, the primary way of dealing with Shedinja, should also be used to defeat Imposter users, as their HP is higher than Kyogre's. Try to use Kyogre in the late game late-game after your wallbreakers have weakened the opponent's walls to set up and sweep. Setting up in the early game early-game mostly results in Kyogre being forced out, so it is better to just go for Scald burns early on.

Team Options
========

Kyogre appreciates wallbreakers such as Mega Latios, Mega Mewtwo X, and -ate users such as Mega Rayquaza to break down walls, as Kyogre is easily forced out by most of them. Kyogre also requires some support to be able to defeat Primal Groudon, which can actually set up on this set. Pokemon such as Mega Garchomp and Mega Swampert are good offensive answers, while Pokemon such as Fur Coat Giratina and Mega Slowbro are more defensive approaches. Additionally, Pokemon such as Giratina and Mega Slowbro can help deal with the physical attackers that Kyogre normally has trouble with.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Freeze Dry can be used for Ice-type coverage at the expense of losing some power; it can, however, help Kyogre deal with Water-types such as Palkia, Mega Gyarados, and Mega Swampert more easily. It also does not make Kyogre terribly weak to Imposter users either, as Freeze Dry does not do much damage when uninvested. Freeze Dry is, however, a liability against the uncommon Lucky Punch Imposter Chansey, as critical hits ignore all positive stats changes of the foe. King's Shield can also be replaced with Spiky Shield so that Kyogre does not need a slow pivot support to activate Toxic Orb Orb, though this comes at the expense of not being able to potentially weaken physical attackers with King's Shield. Spore can be used instead in the fourth moveslot to put foes to sleep. This helps Kyogre defeat some threats such as Mega Latios, Mega Latias, Fur Coat Chansey, and Primal Groudon, none of which are easily KOed and can hit Kyogre hard in return (with the exception of Chansey). Dark Void may also be used to hit walls holding Safety Goggles at the expense of having a bit less accuracy. Infestation can be used instead of Leech Seed to be able to still defeat Shedinja while also being able to trap unsuspecting switch-ins. Water Spout and Steam Eruption are alternatives to Scald, both of which Scald that are Imposter-proof and also deal more damage at the expense of having much many less fewer PP. Water Spout has the disadvantage of being HP-reliant, HP reliant, so Kyogre must be kept at high HP for it to remain effective. Taunt, another option for the fourth moveslot, helps Kyogre defeat walls that normally force it out with utility moves such as Topsy-Turvy and Whirlwind, but it also has the disadvantage of making Kyogre a bit more vulnerable to Imposter users. Fur Coat is also an option for Kyogre, as it greatly helps in patching up its weaker Defense stat and can be used to deal with -ate users such as Mega Rayquaza and Mega Diancie. RegenVest takes advantage of Kyogre's high Special Defense and makes it a great special wall, neutral to many attacks. In this case, Quiver Dance should be replaced with a pivoting move such as Volt Switch and the fourth move should be changed to Night Shade, Nuzzle, or Dragon Tail, while Moon Blast Moonblast is preferred for the third move.


Checks and Counters
===================

**Strong Physical Attackers**: Powerful physical foes such as Mega Mewtwo X and Kyurem-B can easily KO Kyogre with a strong coverage move such as Bolt Strike.

**Prankster Walls**: Walls such as Registeel and Giratina can ruin Kyogre's attempts at setting up with moves such as Encore, Topsy-Turvy, and Heart Swap, but they risk getting burned by Scald.

**Unaware Walls**: Unaware users such as Mega Audino can phaze Kyogre while ignoring its boosts, but they risk getting burned by Scald.

**Faster Special Wallbreakers**: Wallbreakers such as Mega Mewtwo Y and Mega Sceptile can threaten Kyogre before it sets up and force it out.

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon completely shuts Kyogre down with Desolate Land and can deal large amounts of damage to it. in return.

**Mega Latios and Mega Latias**: Mega Latias Latios and Mega Latios Latias can take Ice Beams pretty well thanks to Soul Dew and can hit Kyogre on its weaker defensive side with STAB Psystrikes.

**Bulky Poison Heal Users**: Poison Heal users such as Kyogre and Giratina are extremely hard to defeat, and Kyogre requires many boosts to be able to break them, especially if they carry phazing moves such as Whirlwind.

2/2

Thanks for the feedback, everything is implemented except for the one question I had which I posted about on your VM!

Edit: Question was answered, we are ready!

 

[morogrim]

Tagging wishes, Shiba, and baconbagon

 

[baconbagon]

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