Battle Spot Teambuilding Discussion & Help Thread (read post #453, page 19)

[freekhoorn]

To get the videos you have to search for the player through pokemon-gl.com, and then watch the videos in game on your 3ds using the Vs. Recorder

I really like this, but this is a bit offtopic so im making a new thread where we will analyse the topplayers from battle spot. Anyone against this?

 

[EnGarde]

I really like this, but this is a bit offtopic so im making a new thread where we will analyse the topplayers from battle spot. Anyone against this?

I'd suggest getting approval from Age of Kings or Hulavuta first. I think that might be a change one of them has already planned to implement. :)

 

[freekhoorn]

I'd suggest getting approval from Age of Kings or Hulavuta first. I think that might be a change one of them has already planned to implement. :)

Okey

 

[Age of Kings]

Yeah, a Battle Spot video discussion thread is planned. I'll try to get it up by the end of the day.

 

[freekhoorn]

I did watch the first ten videos of one of the japanese players wich were posted on that google chat, shake was his name.

The games were really fast paced, and lasted ten to twenty turns, with lots of switching, and good prediction often. The amount of damaging moves was very high, the only moves i saw him moves out of that were substitute and dragon dance, on his mega gyarados and stealth rocks and t-wace on stunfisk. (Yeah it had stunfisk somehow). He only putted the matches he won online so maybe im overreacting but hydreigon with choice specs was very good. Its dark pulse did lots of damage. There is something weird with hydreigon as in he is not often used at pokemon showdown and it is also not on the top 12 used pokemon on the pgl and it has never been while from the 12 (japanese) people we saw there were 6 running him.

Im guessing he can deal with mega gengar and on showdown ou noone has to deal with mega gengar cause its banned, but that cant be the only thing.

 

[EnGarde]

talk about hydreigon

I think hydreigon is the dark horse choice because people don't realize how much offensive pressure it has. It's also one of the few solid checks to aegislash, since it doesn't fear the king's shield drop and can spam dark pulse. It doesn't stack up as well in terms of speed when compared to the other dragons (garchomp and salamence in particular), so people tend to overlook it.

 

[Hulavuta]

I've found Specs Hydreigon to be a great Pokemon honestly, at least in certain situations. It's different from Garchomp and Salamence in that it's a wall/stall breaker; Specs Draco Meteor gets rid of a TON of pesky annoying Pokemon like Rotom and Sableye in one shot, provided it hits. It doesn't fear a Will-O-Wisp from either because it's using Special Attacks. The low speed can be annoying at times but in general it is faster than everything it needs to be faster than.

Also Hydreigon does not actually beat Gengar since it will die to Dazzling Gleam if it doesn't have Assault Vest. Focus Blast does a ton too, although I'm not sure if it's an OHKO.

 

[DrZoidburglar]

I've taken a bit of a hiatus from BS to do a crapload of breeding, but I was wondering: has anyone had much luck with Charizard-Y? I currently have 6IV Modest, Timid, and Mild charmanders, and would love to try out Char-Y. It just seems like his physical Defense is really lacking. Anyone have suggestions for teammates/playstyles to make good use of him?
Thanks! (Also should this question go here, metagame, or simple questions/answers?)

 

[EnGarde]

I've taken a bit of a hiatus from BS to do a crapload of breeding, but I was wondering: has anyone had much luck with Charizard-Y? I currently have 6IV Modest, Timid, and Mild charmanders, and would love to try out Char-Y. It just seems like his physical Defense is really lacking. Anyone have suggestions for teammates/playstyles to make good use of him?
Thanks! (Also should this question go here, metagame, or simple questions/answers?)

I'm not sure which metagame you're interested in, but if you wanted to try mega 'zard y out, I would recommend using your modest one, with an EV spread of 100 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 156 Speed. This gives you the best compromise between speed, power, and survivability, at least considering VGC threats.

 

[DrZoidburglar]

I'm not sure which metagame you're interested in, but if you wanted to try mega 'zard y out, I would recommend using your modest one, with an EV spread of 100 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 156 Speed. This gives you the best compromise between speed, power, and survivability, at least considering VGC threats.

Right, sorry. I was thinking singles. Any suggestions on teammates?

 

[EnGarde]

Right, sorry. I was thinking singles. Any suggestions on teammates?

Venusaur (chlorophyll sweeper) jumps to mind immediately, however, most people would probably expect that. Another cool choice would be to have mega venusaur as a 2nd mega, and if the opponent's team looks like it'd be particularly tough for 'zard and sun friends, you could bring mega venu instead of charizard for the surprise factor.

Other good chlorophyll sweepers to consider are victreebel (very frail, but used to get 10th place in UK nationals in VGC) and leafeon, but anything from this list is up for consideration.

The things 'zard y are weak against are rock, water, and electric. Water is partially covered by drought, and to help cover rock and electric, I'd recommend something like landorus or garchomp. Heatran would also probably love to play in the sun.

Hmm, that, at least, is just what springs to my mind. ^^ Hope this helps! :)

 

[Hulavuta]

I thought to use Charizard-Y when I was thinking of good teammates for Tyranitar actually. I'm currently building a team around the two. Garchomp is a Pokemon that has good synergy with both, it can take rock attacks and the two weathers are pretty good for it. I've been told Terrakion is also good, but obviously you'd have to RNG that. A Pokemon that can take strong physical hits is also a good idea since Tyranitar has a lot of physical weaknesses and while Charizard covers most of them, it has pretty mediocre defense so it still doesn't want to switch in.

Also, the Pokemon reset the weather for each other, insuring that Charizard and Tyranitar are always in their preferred weather.

As for EV spread, I'm just going for straight 252/252 but with Modest you're not outspeeding the 100 club anyway. I think EnGarde's spread is good but I should like to know specifically what it beats.

 

[EnGarde]

As for EV spread, I'm just going for straight 252/252 but with Modest you're not outspeeding the 100 club anyway. I think EnGarde's spread is good but I should like to know specifically what it beats.

The spread comes from Nugget Bridge's general article on mega evolutions. On charizard in particular:

In the past, Mega Charizard Y usually used EV spreads that focused on being fast and hitting hard. The only problem is it cannot outspeed one of its biggest threats using this – Garchomp. For that reason, 156 speed can be used to out speed Focus Sash Smeargle by one point, the fastest big threat that Charizard can outspeed. The rest can be put into bulk – why waste speed outspeeding nothing important when you can take less damage from attacks?

 

[Hulavuta]

That article's for VGC though so I'm worried it might need to hid a higher speed tier in singles. There are some in the 80s or 90s speed tier that Charizard might want to outspeed. Unfortunately, I can't view the PGL website as it's under maintenance D:

 

[EnGarde]

That article's for VGC though so I'm worried it might need to hid a higher speed tier in singles. There are some in the 80s or 90s speed tier that Charizard might want to outspeed. Unfortunately, I can't view the PGL website as it's under maintenance D:

Yes, I didn't think about this. Just off the top of my head, I guess focus sashed landorus-t, with a base speed of 91, would be a problem (scarfed lando is out of the ballpark, though). Is lando likely to carry sash or scarf in singles?

EDIT: I guess we'll have to wait until the maintenance is done. :(

 

[ethan06]

Finally finished the OP :)

I run AV Landorus in 3v3 because I find that it's typing and ability lends it to a bulky pivoting role, and I didn't like the move locking that Choice Scarf forced me into. Focus Sash, I find, works far better on frailer Pokémon like Bisharp and Breloom that can't afford to take a hit at all...

 

[DrZoidburglar]

I think Lando carries a scarf more often, but I could easily be wrong. Hopefully maintenance will be done by the time I'm off work...

 

[Purgatory]

I have to make a re-post of my team since it has, again, gone through substantial changes, but none the last week, which is a new record for me (yay!)

Rotom-W @ Leftovers ** Elvis
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch

Same Rotom-W as before, it still works as great as always. Protect might seem iffy, but 3 on 3 often means matches are short and teams are on the offensive side quite heavily, meaning I don't have time for Rest (although ChestoRest might be fine, I've yet to properly test that). I don't have access to a Pain Split Rotom with good IV's, which would otherwise take Protect's spot. The rest is fairly standard, I needed a good answer to Talonflame and other scary physical threats, and Rotom-W happens to resist both of Talonflame's STABs.

Ferrothorn (M) @ Rocky Helmet ** Humbert
Ability: Iron Barbs
IVs: 0 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock

Dedicated Mega-Mom counter and physical tank. Sublime Pebbles isn't too hot in 3 vs. 3 but like 75% of the teams have Talonflame, so it's alright. Otherwise, fairly standard I think, at least for the 3 vs. 3 metagame. He suffers quite a bit from the lack of a reliable recovery in Leftovers + Protect a la Rotom-W above, and sometimes gets worn down by repeated Earthquakes from Garchomp, but still. I'm on the fence about Sneaky Boulders, I'd like to replace it with Protect to have some recovery with Leech Seed, but I'm note sure yet.

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite ** Flemm
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Return
- Earthquake

Semi-standard Mega-Kanga. No Power-up-Punch, because I don't deem it necessary in 3 vs. 3, where, after a KO, you only need to KO two more pokemon. Almost all pokemon who don't outright resist Normal or are immune to it gets KO:d by Fake Out followed by Return.

Garchomp (F) @ Choice Scarf ** Marianne
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Stone Edge Rock Tomb
- ? (Not sure what to go with here, currently the spot is occupied by Iron Head)

Standard ScarfChomp, revenge-killer extraordinaire. Not much to say, it's been doing great work for me.

Gengar (M) @ Black Sludge ** Rolf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Substitute
- Disable

Quite annoying against most attackers, the goal is to open with it or come in on an immunity and force something out while subbing. Disable messes with their ability to hit him at all. I've been pondering replacing Sludge Bomb with something with better coverage, Dazzling Gleam or Thunderbolt or maybe Icy Wind.

Scrafty (F) @ Assault Vest ** Lena
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Rock Tomb

This thing has been putting in so much work for the team. I regard it as my utility tank. Even with Adamant Nature and max Atk EVs, it's not doing too much damage to anything, especially since the BP of many of its moves is quite low. I'd love to have Knock Off over Crunch on this thing, it'd make it even more excellent, but since I don't have access to that (here's hoping OR/AS has a decent set of move tutors), Crunch will have to suffice. Rock Tomb helps my other pokemon and I much prefer it over Stone Edge since the latter tends to miss, and I struggle to make OHKO's with this thing anyway. With Intimidate and Assault Vest, the raw defensive stats of this thing is effectively 172/204/202, compared to the Ferrothorn above who boasts 181/201/137 or the Rotom-W above, weighing in at 157/174/128 (albeit the latter two have some very useful resistances and other boons). Intimidate and Fake Out makes me go with Scrafty over Conkeldurr, although Conkeldurr also has reliable priority with STAB tacked on, it also struggles with much worse physical bulk, which is a detriment in today's very physical metagame in my opinion.

 

[BWong]

I have to make a re-post of my team since it has, again, gone through substantial changes, but none the last week, which is a new record for me (yay!)

Rotom-W @ Leftovers ** Elvis
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch

Same Rotom-W as before, it still works as great as always. Protect might seem iffy, but 3 on 3 often means matches are short and teams are on the offensive side quite heavily, meaning I don't have time for Rest (although ChestoRest might be fine, I've yet to properly test that). I don't have access to a Pain Split Rotom with good IV's, which would otherwise take Protect's spot. The rest is fairly standard, I needed a good answer to Talonflame and other scary physical threats, and Rotom-W happens to resist both of Talonflame's STABs.

Ferrothorn (M) @ Rocky Helmet ** Humbert
Ability: Iron Barbs
IVs: 0 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock

Dedicated Mega-Mom counter and physical tank. Sublime Pebbles isn't too hot in 3 vs. 3 but like 75% of the teams have Talonflame, so it's alright. Otherwise, fairly standard I think, at least for the 3 vs. 3 metagame. He suffers quite a bit from the lack of a reliable recovery in Leftovers + Protect a la Rotom-W above, and sometimes gets worn down by repeated Earthquakes from Garchomp, but still. I'm on the fence about Sneaky Boulders, I'd like to replace it with Protect to have some recovery with Leech Seed, but I'm note sure yet.

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite ** Flemm
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Return
- Earthquake

Semi-standard Mega-Kanga, which I don't like to use because it's banned here. Not all the players on the Battle Spot are adhering to the Smogon rules, and sometimes when playing free battles you see stuff like Xerneas and Mega Luke, and I keep Kanga close for when I'm up against these people. I swap out Dragonite from the 6-lineup then, but it's often left on the bench. When I bring it, I usually do it with Rotom and Goodra. No Power-up-Punch, because I don't deem it necessary in 3 vs. 3, where, after a KO, you only need to KO two more pokemon. Almost all pokemon who don't outright resist Normal or are immune to it gets KO:d by Fake Out followed by Return.

Garchomp (F) @ Choice Scarf ** Marianne
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Stone Edge
- ? (Not sure what to go with here, currently the spot is occupied by Iron Head)

Standard ScarfChomp, revenge-killer extraordinaire. Not much to say, it's been doing great work for me.

Gengar (M) @ Black Sludge ** Rolf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Substitute
- Disable

Quite annoying against most attackers, the goal is to open with it or come in on an immunity and force something out while subbing. Disable messes with their ability to hit him at all. I've been pondering replacing Sludge Bomb with something with better coverage, Dazzling Gleam or Thunderbolt or maybe Icy Wind.

Scrafty (F) @ Assault Vest ** Lena
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Rock Tomb

This thing has been putting in so much work for the team. I regard it as my utility tank. Even with Adamant Nature and max Atk EVs, it's not doing too much damage to anything, especially since the BP of many of its moves is quite low. I'd love to have Knock Off over Crunch on this thing, it'd make it even more excellent, but since I don't have access to that (here's hoping OR/AS has a decent set of move tutors), Crunch will have to suffice. Rock Tomb helps my other pokemon and I much prefer it over Stone Edge since the latter tends to miss, and I struggle to make OHKO's with this thing anyway.

I used to use Poison Jab on my Garchomp for Azumarill. Only advantage Iron Head has is the flinch hax and if you are relying on flinches then you have already lost. Also try using rock tomb over stone edge. The increase accuracy and speed drop is well worth the drop in power. Besides the only time you are gonna select Garchomps rock move is on Talonflame and Charizard, both of whom are OHKO by rock tomb anyhow.

Shoot me a PM, I can help you with your Rotom and Scrafty problem if you'd like.

 

[Purgatory]

I used to use Poison Jab on my Garchomp for Azumarill. Only advantage Iron Head has is the flinch hax and if you are relying on flinches then you have already lost. Also try using rock tomb over stone edge. The increase accuracy and speed drop is well worth the drop in power. Besides the only time you are gonna select Garchomps rock move is on Talonflame and Charizard, both of whom are OHKO by rock tomb anyhow.

Good point about Rock Tomb, I've made the change. Also good point about Poison Jab vs. Iron Head, for some reason I thought Poison Jab was BP 70 (meaning EQ would be better vs. Azumarill anyway), but I was obviously mistaken. I'll probably make that change too.

 

[Karnu]

Hey. For my team I currently have
Mega Lucario for physical offensive
Ninetails for special offensive
Cressilia for bulk toxic support but I don't think its helping much, might put up a reflect or something?
Whimiscott as a speed support

What would be good two other pokemon?

Or any changes? I would like my team to have Mega Lucario though.

 

[Pyritie]

Hey. For my team I currently have
Mega Lucario for physical offensive
Ninetails for special offensive
Cressilia for bulk toxic support but I don't think its helping much, might put up a reflect or something?
Whimiscott as a speed support

What would be good two other pokemon?

Or any changes? I would like my team to have Mega Lucario though.

If you want a special offensive pokemon there are far better options than ninetales, who you should only use if you want sun but can't use charY. Something like gengar or greninja are good examples.

Otherwise if you're building around m-lucario, think of things that he usually has trouble with and add pokemon that can deal with those threats well. For example if you have problems with talonflame, adding a rotom-w/h, ttar, or heatran might be useful.

M-lucario's already fast, what do you need the speed support for?

 

[ethan06]

The first thing that comes to mind when checking Lucario is Ground-types - they tend to be bulkier and less susceptible to Luke's coverage, particularly physical Luke. Aside from Landorus-T, the main one you need to worry about is Garchomp - any Ice-type attacker will do great, although physical attackers won't do as well against Landorus due to Intimidate. For that reason, I agree with Pyritie that Sash Greninja is an excellent option to consider. It's a fast, versatile special attacker with Protean-STAB Ice Beam, which means it can efficiently remove threats like Garchomp that stand in the way of a Lucario sweep.

 

[Mkushrom]

I have been using the same Sableye/Aegislash/TTar core below, but I have made some changes:

This is my current team so far:

Sableye @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Foul Play
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Recover

My MMom counter and one of the most amazing stallmons if the opponent is not prepared. Taunt is so useful against Breloom or set up sweepers, WoW cripples physical threats and Foul Play is for STAB. Sitrus Berry allow us to fail one WoW or miss predict a physical attack and go for Taunt on the first turn.

Aegislash @ Air Balloon
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- King's Shield

It's one of my Garchomp counter for TTar. It switches into an EQ and just kill it with HP Ice. Flash Cannon is for faes and STAB, but it might go for Shadow Sneak.

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

My main sweeper. With no DD it's big, after a DD it's a monster. Sand Stream helps with sashes, Crunch is for STAB and EQ because I don't need more ice attacks and non-contact physical attacks are always nice. Stone Edge over Rock Slide for the higher damage but I might switch them.

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover

This guy is amazing. I've faced lots of Blazikens, Azumarills and Talonflames and Quasire just owns them. Scald for burning down physical threads, EQ for STAB, Toxic to stall and Recover is mandatory. I might switch Toxic for Yawn, though. It's also pretty useful against Minimize users since Unaware pass through evasion boosts, and ParaSwag Klefki can do nothing against it.

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
- U-turn

This is my main lead. Hydro Pump is to hit hard, Ice Beam for Lati@s, Garchomp and Gliscor, Extrasensory for M_Venusaur and Fighting types and U-Turn for momentum and breaking sashes.

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis

M-Venusaur makes an excelent defensive core paired with Sableye and Quagsire. HP Fire is the only fire attack in my team so I have to be careful if the opponent carries Ferrothorn or Scizor because this guy becomes a valuable pokemon. It counters Azumarilla and other water/fairy/grass types and can stall forever a poisoned opponent.

Now my Mega Blaziken wall is a stardad Slowbro set:

Slowbro@Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Slack Off

It can also kill Garchomps with Ice Beam and spread burns and toxics everywhere, being quite decent for stalling. Thanks to Regenerator it acts as a decent pivot too.

I also felt quite weak to Greninja and other fast leads so I brought my Hydreigon back:

Hydreigon@Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Dark Pulse
- U-Turn

Now I felt that my team was pretty weak against Azumarill (and fairies in general) and Sash Breloom, but still using MVenusaur seemed wrong now that almost everything in my team was special, so I started trying Metagross:

Metagross@Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
- Bullet Punch

I'm not very fond on this guy, but it has a powerful steel attack with STAB to kill fairies such as wich are my main threat. I also have in mind trying TrickScarf/Bulky Rotom-H and Rotom-W, Scarf Chandelure and Weavile w/Fake Out and Ice Shard to break sashes. Any thoughts?

 

[Karnu]

If you want a special offensive pokemon there are far better options than ninetales, who you should only use if you want sun but can't use charY. Something like gengar or greninja are good examples.

Otherwise if you're building around m-lucario, think of things that he usually has trouble with and add pokemon that can deal with those threats well. For example if you have problems with talonflame, adding a rotom-w/h, ttar, or heatran might be useful.

M-lucario's already fast, what do you need the speed support for?

Ok, I have a Shiny flawless Greninja. What moves should I run him on?

Sorry, I worded that wrong, when I meant speed I meant a support that moves first, having Pranskter helps Whimiscott slow down others for other Pokemon obviously.. I'm stil getting my head around a balanced team..

What should I run on Cresselia?

The first thing that comes to mind when checking Lucario is Ground-types - they tend to be bulkier and less susceptible to Luke's coverage, particularly physical Luke. Aside from Landorus-T, the main one you need to worry about is Garchomp - any Ice-type attacker will do great, although physical attackers won't do as well against Landorus due to Intimidate. For that reason, I agree with Pyritie that Sash Greninja is an excellent option to consider. It's a fast, versatile special attacker with Protean-STAB Ice Beam, which means it can efficiently remove threats like Garchomp that stand in the way of a Lucario sweep.

Ok, I'll add Greninja into the mix!