ORAS OU blitzkrieg

[JoarAddamNessosin]

Blitzkrieg
As the name suggests this team hits hard and fast.
and wipes out most of Europe

Having gotten as far as i can with this team its time
I post it here for a little OU RMT help!
This is my 2nd RMT and my first OU RMT, i started in doubles,
spent some time in vgc and played around in all
the shit lower tiers for the past 2 years or so as brolatypus
If you click the link you'll see its quite.. well anyway without farther ado

Removal
Changes
Currently testing :
Addiction 's changes

Team Building

Wanting to make a team that could deal with m-sab and if need be kill goth. I started with Mega-Lopunny and a bulky-ish version of Talonflame that i saw off of another rmt and tweaked some.

This left me pretty weak to electrics, SpA mons and of course the bravest bird so I added vest raikou to cover birds as well as hit lati@s okay and pretty much any other special mon that wasn't using earth power or faster.

Next I needed some rocks because what kind of HO doesn't have rocks? I mean really? Not any good ones i've seen so I added garchomp. I tossed a helmet on him and gave him roar so he could phaze even fairy switch ins.

Now this next spot was a bitch to fill. I needed something to clear the field for talon and raikou's little volt-turn and keep chip damage to a minimum as HO isn't exactly known for it's bulk so I added starmie to clear the field as well as slow down some of the faster threats that might switch in on her, I'm looking at you weavile.

With one slot left and only one real special threat on my team I tossed on my favorite anti-fable gengar, who even if tricked a scarf could take out most goths and then use the scarf to revenge kill most of the tier.

TL:DR version <3

Lopunny (M) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Frustration/Return
- Ice Punch/Quick Attack/Encore

Mega bunny set here is pretty standard, hit hard and fast. Jolly 252 spe to tie with m-mane. i went with ice punch as my 4th move as it 2/hkos most lando-t even after -1 and i didn't see the usefulness of QA or encore on something that's life is either fleeting or cleaning. i personally use frustration over return because even tho its known but most now, on the off chance there's a ditto it will most likely have max happiness. Lastly M-punnys ability to hit m-sab first with fake out and then with HJK for the KO was a huge selling point for me as that little shit gives me trouble generally.

Talonflame (F)
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
4 HP / 252 ATK / 252 SPE
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- U-turn/will-o-wisp
-Flare Blitz
I saw a similar set while lurking the other rtm's and decided to give it a shot, well worth it. I chose to drop will-o-miss for u-turn to add momentum. 184 spe evs out speed all base 100's unboosted. max Atk+ to get the best bang for my buck and i put the rest in Hp to help keep my bravest bird alive a little longer. no item acrobatics hit 110 bp just 10 shy of brave bird before stab and no recoil as well as weakened knock offs make the move swap well worth it. sword dance and roost fill the last two slots tho I'm willing to try bulk up if someone posts me the numbers proving its worth over sword dance and can keep talon's speed at 184.

Raikou @ Assault Vest
Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Discharge
-Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch
- Signal Beam/shadow ball

Raikou is a beast, fast, hits hard and even has a little of that bulk HO doesn't see too much of. 252+ speed to beat as many mons as it can. I went with signal beam over shadow ball to hit dark type named weavile mainly. hp-ice for 4x chomp/lando's that aren't scarfed and dual stabs for the hax/ volt-turn core. not too much to say about the set, i avoided hp-fire because of the 30 spe ivs and thunder/bolt are options over discharge although the team enjoys the prz as its weak bulk means if its faster I'm dead.

Garchomp (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 Spe
Lax Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake/Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast/toxic
- Roar/Dragon Tail

Rough, Rocky Chomp is a pretty decent addition to HO. it still hits hard but offers bulk and support in place of its normal scarf/mega. 156 spe out speeds all non scarf trans/base 70's. I went with lax as I wanted to most out of fire blast and most special attacks coming my way are ice and that means GG for chomp anyway. Roar over dragon tail as fairy switches that aren't m-dia get pushed right back out. Fire blast for steel/grass and EQ for stab. i /'d a few move as garchomp has a huge pool and different people want different coverage out of it.

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Def / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Scald /Hydro pump
- Thunder Wave/ psyshock
- Recover/ reflect type

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Hydro Pump
- Psychic
- Ice Beam

Starmie is my spinner, and one of the fastest. 224 spe evs allow it to hit 354 speed. Any higher is pretty useless because most people would switch from those threat anyway. I went scald over hydro pump to fish for burns and to maintain constancy as missing with it can mean the end to not only starmie but talonflame as well. thunder wave has proven its worth over the other two options I list because once i toss this little star out weavile comes rearing its ugly mug and a slow weavile is a dead weavile. recover to well, recover tho r-type can be used to last longer against dark types. 0 atk to counter act foul play. For its ability i went with natural cure to maintain its health and eat burns and poisons.

Gengar (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast
- Destiny Bond

Gengar is my final slot. This monster hits Fairies hard and laughs at Hp-fire lati@s. classic 4th move syndrome, so much so that i wont even begin to / moves. i went with dual stabs and blast for steel. d-bond to take out key threats. 29 hp ivs for life orb recoil. max spe+/spA because gengar is no tank. No real notable mentions for this set.

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 16 HP / 8 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

The team as a whole has done well, tho now with the shadow tag ban it seems a little funny i put this much into stopping goth and sab. I'm looking to better my spreads and maybe replace starmie and gengar as them seem to be the most dead weight.

noteable threats

mold breaker exa
m-alt at +1 wipes my team
other m-bunnys are also an issue
fat-mega-saur eats all but my bird
bird spam is a little scary
the list goes on with HO but needless to say 30-15 between my alts shows it can put in work

I swear to FSM if i face my own team in the ladder I'll shit a brick

Lopunny (M) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Frustration
- Ice Punch

Talonflame (F)
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- U-turn

Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Discharge
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch
- Signal Beam

Garchomp (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 Spe
Lax Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Roar

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Def / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Thunder Wave
- Recover

Gengar (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast
- Destiny Bond

 

[Addiction]

Hey,

This is a cool HO. The biggest problem I see, though, is that you have a lot of trouble breaking common stall cores. For example, consider the all too common 4-headed monster of Skarmory, Chansey, Quagsire, and Amoonguss. Your team, with the exception of Gengar, pretty much loses to these 4 mons (unless you use wisp Talonflame, burn the Quagsire, and do a really good job of wearing it down). Your Gengar can't really do anything to Chansey given that it doesn't have pain split, and Life Orb wears it down easily. Though a Taunt/Bulk up Talonflame is a great stallbreaker, I wouldn't change Talonflame because I think your team really appreciates its power as a revenge killer and a check to many threats.

In addition, your team generally has trouble against dragons. Outrage-spamming scarfers like Kyurem-B and Garchomp can really put you in a tight spot, given that you have no resist and cannot outspeed them (except with Talonflame's Acrobatics). Latios can also OHKO your whole team. These are all reasons why I think you should replace Lopunny with a Taunt Mega Gardevoir. Gardevoir is a monster against defensive teams; Hyper Voice and Psyshock tear through nearly everything, while Taunt allows it to beat Chansey as well. You mentioned that Lopunny also seemed your main way to beat Sableye; Gardevoir is even better against Sableye, as it can hit hard even when burned (and even trace Magic Bounce when it initially comes in). It helps you defensively too with the dragon immunity and ability to check Lati@s.

There are a few other changes I'd make as well. First of all, I can't say I understand what a defensive Starmie does for you. Your team is HO; you pressure the opponent with powerful attacks to force switches, which you then try to capitalize on. Offensive Starmie is one of the best mons in OU at providing offensive pressure. You say you use Thunder Wave for Weavile switch-ins, but no reasonably intelligent player is going to switch a Weavile directly into a Starmie, for fear of a Scald burn or an easy Hydro Pump OHKO. I see no reason for you not to use Offensive Starmie over your current set. I also think offensive SD Talonflame really needs Flare Blitz over U-turn for coverage reasons (beating Scizor/Ferrothorn/Skarmory, etc.) and that you should use max speed in order to beat Raikou, Thundurus, and Manectric if you catch it before its mega evolution.

In addition, I don't really see a need for Assault Vest on Raikou. The bulk is cool sometimes, but that's about it; Raikou is still pretty weak and physically frail. It can switch into Thundurus and Manectric even without the vest. If you choose to go with Gardevoir, which I think you should, it makes sense to give Raikou a Choice Scarf. You lack a true scarfer (though Talonflame can function is a pseudo-scarfer of sorts). This gives you some more speed to handle (and maybe surprise) scarfers like Landorus and Garchomp as well as speed-boosting sweepers. While your game plan against balanced / defensive teams will most likely revolve around Gardevoir, many offense vs. offense matchups come down to which team has more speed. Good luck with this team.

Note: I listed the changes in what I think is the order of importance.

Sets I mentioned:

Hide

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 16 HP / 8 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Hydro Pump
- Psychic
- Ice Beam

Raikou @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Shadow Ball

 

[JoarAddamNessosin]

Hey,

This is a cool HO. The biggest problem I see, though, is that you have a lot of trouble breaking common stall cores. For example, consider the all too common 4-headed monster of Skarmory, Chansey, Quagsire, and Amoonguss. Your team, with the exception of Gengar, pretty much loses to these 4 mons (unless you use wisp Talonflame, burn the Quagsire, and do a really good job of wearing it down). Your Gengar can't really do anything to Chansey given that it doesn't have pain split, and Life Orb wears it down easily. Though a Taunt/Bulk up Talonflame is a great stallbreaker, I wouldn't change Talonflame because I think your team really appreciates its power as a revenge killer and a check to many threats.

In addition, your team generally has trouble against dragons. Outrage-spamming scarfers like Kyurem-B and Garchomp can really put you in a tight spot, given that you have no resist and cannot outspeed them (except with Talonflame's Acrobatics). Latios can also OHKO your whole team. These are all reasons why I think you should replace Lopunny with a Taunt Mega Gardevoir. Gardevoir is a monster against defensive teams; Hyper Voice and Psyshock tear through nearly everything, while Taunt allows it to beat Chansey as well. You mentioned that Lopunny also seemed your main way to beat Sableye; Gardevoir is even better against Sableye, as it can hit hard even when burned (and even trace Magic Bounce when it initially comes in). It helps you defensively too with the dragon immunity and ability to check Lati@s.

There are a few other changes I'd make as well. First of all, I can't say I understand what a defensive Starmie does for you. Your team is HO; you pressure the opponent with powerful attacks to force switches, which you then try to capitalize on. Offensive Starmie is one of the best mons in OU at providing offensive pressure. You say you use Thunder Wave for Weavile switch-ins, but no reasonably intelligent player is going to switch a Weavile directly into a Starmie, for fear of a Scald burn or an easy Hydro Pump OHKO. I see no reason for you not to use Offensive Starmie over your current set. I also think offensive SD Talonflame really needs Flare Blitz over U-turn for coverage reasons (beating Scizor/Ferrothorn/Skarmory, etc.) and that you should use max speed in order to beat Raikou, Thundurus, and Manectric if you catch it before its mega evolution.

In addition, I don't really see a need for Assault Vest on Raikou. The bulk is cool sometimes, but that's about it; Raikou is still pretty weak and physically frail. It can switch into Thundurus and Manectric even without the vest. If you choose to go with Gardevoir, which I think you should, it makes sense to give Raikou a Choice Scarf. You lack a true scarfer (though Talonflame can function is a pseudo-scarfer of sorts). This gives you some more speed to handle (and maybe surprise) scarfers like Landorus and Garchomp as well as speed-boosting sweepers. While your game plan against balanced / defensive teams will most likely revolve around Gardevoir, many offense vs. offense matchups come down to which team has more speed. Good luck with this team.

Note: I listed the changes in what I think is the order of importance.

Sets I mentioned:

Hide

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 16 HP / 8 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Hydro Pump
- Psychic
- Ice Beam

Raikou @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Shadow Ball

As im mobile right now i wont be testing again until later but i will change starmie and raikou and give mega gard a shot. My question is what are the benchmarks her Spread hits. The other is with talon ive tried both overheat amd fireblitz and i think blitz will work well here being the only recoil. Thank you for the rate!

 

[Addiction]

The spread avoids a 2HKO from Latios' Psyshock.

 

[JoarAddamNessosin]

The spread avoids a 2HKO from Latios' Psyshock.

Just want to make sure i use it with that in mind. I didnt realize how easy the fourm was on mobile tho the link is bad. So ive made the first set of changes.

 

[dream light]

Yooooo SD Wisp Talonflame puts in so much work lately, I love that set.

A few comments on ideas I've seen from above raters: Taunt Gengar actually does beat Chansey 1 on 1, you don't necessarily need Blitz coverage if Ferro and Mag and stuff are well covered and I actually don't know how Scarf Raikou revenges anything given that it's quite weak. I also don't really get how SubCM Raik helps against stall when every decent stall build has Chansey + Quagsire, both of which wall Raikou hard even with multiple boosts assuming that your opponent is incompetent. Also how does adding Klefki help the team when his squad is already scrambling for ground resists against Excadrill O_o one of the raters above mentioned a CharX weak but didn't help with that either.

So this is a cool team, again I like SD Flame + Lopunny synergy (Lop for TTar and sand stalling, Tflame for Breloom Venusaur etc) but your team doesn't quite support this goal. A few mons look very threatening as well.

Threats:

• 1st one is Excadrill. In Sand, it comes in on your entire team bar Garchomp and Raikou even out of Sand for free and gets KOs. Garchomp is 2HKO'd by Life Orb Earthquake, and everything else drops to Earthquake / Iron Head / Rock Slide.
• Mega Charizard X wins pretty hard as well, getting a free Dragon Dance on Raikou and after that it's GG as you have to try and stall it out with Flare Blitz recoil, Rocky Helmet + Rough Skin damage and Brave Bird from Talonflame. It's not an autoloss as with smart play you can avoid the sweep but it gets KO's when it comes in.
• Weavile also looks extremely threatening to switch into, after a few rocks switchins on all your mons you literally have to sack mons to get Talonflame in and hope they sack; that, or try and get them to take Helmet damage with Garchomp (idk why they would though given Crash literally 2HKOs / OHKOs the whole team though o_O)
• Keldeo is potentially troublesome as well as your main check is Starmie, which doesnt have recovery is easily Pursuit trapped and worn down by Life Orb recoil. It's a one time check at best and Raikou is not really a switchin. Mostly an annoyance because it comes in fairly easily on Garchomp and has no switchin, although you do outspeed with Gar Starmie and Raik so I suppose it isn't too bad.

I think a lot of these can be fairly easily remedied with a few blanket checks, so nothing too big is required here. I'm going to assume the first version of the team when implementing changes as otherwise this could be quite difficult.

• Helmet Landorus-T > Tank Garchomp, this helps alleviate the Charizard and Excadrill weaknesses substantially while still handling say Lopunny and non Ice Punch Mega Metagross (which Garchomp lost to anyway) with Rocky Helmet and providing rocks for your team. It also has U-Turn to help keep momentum.
• To also help with Weavile (and Bisharp, now that we have LandoT) and add some more reliable pressure on Hippo for Raikou and Lopunny and Talonflame, I recommend Specs Keldeo > Gengar. This gives your team reliable balance breaking power and helps pressure common checks while also blowing Garchomp and LandoT away. However, this makes you weaker to Electrics with double waters, so this would have to come with:
• Defog Latios > Starmie, secondary Raik and Manectric check while also still checking Keldeo more reliably with recovery.
• Try going Offensive SD Talonflame with 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def Jolly, this allows you to outprioritize Weavile Ice Shard in late game scenarios and outspeed Electrics like Raikou and Magnezone, which if you're running Flare Blitz is ideal.

I think this changes the dynamic a fair bit for the team but the changes are worthwhile and make it more offensively synergistic. Good luck bro

importable

Lopunny (M) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Frustration
- Ice Punch

Talonflame (F) @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Flare Blitz

Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Signal Beam

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 172 Def / 88 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog
- Recover

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind

 

[JoarAddamNessosin]

Yooooo SD Wisp Talonflame puts in so much work lately, I love that set.

A few comments on ideas I've seen from above raters: Taunt Gengar actually does beat Chansey 1 on 1, you don't necessarily need Blitz coverage if Ferro and Mag and stuff are well covered and I actually don't know how Scarf Raikou revenges anything given that it's quite weak. I also don't really get how SubCM Raik helps against stall when every decent stall build has Chansey + Quagsire, both of which wall Raikou hard even with multiple boosts assuming that your opponent is incompetent. Also how does adding Klefki help the team when his squad is already scrambling for ground resists against Excadrill O_o one of the raters above mentioned a CharX weak but didn't help with that either.

So this is a cool team, again I like SD Flame + Lopunny synergy (Lop for TTar and sand stalling, Tflame for Breloom Venusaur etc) but your team doesn't quite support this goal. A few mons look very threatening as well.

Threats:

• 1st one is Excadrill. In Sand, it comes in on your entire team bar Garchomp and Raikou even out of Sand for free and gets KOs. Garchomp is 2HKO'd by Life Orb Earthquake, and everything else drops to Earthquake / Iron Head / Rock Slide.
• Mega Charizard X wins pretty hard as well, getting a free Dragon Dance on Raikou and after that it's GG as you have to try and stall it out with Flare Blitz recoil, Rocky Helmet + Rough Skin damage and Brave Bird from Talonflame. It's not an autoloss as with smart play you can avoid the sweep but it gets KO's when it comes in.
• Weavile also looks extremely threatening to switch into, after a few rocks switchins on all your mons you literally have to sack mons to get Talonflame in and hope they sack; that, or try and get them to take Helmet damage with Garchomp (idk why they would though given Crash literally 2HKOs / OHKOs the whole team though o_O)
• Keldeo is potentially troublesome as well as your main check is Starmie, which doesnt have recovery is easily Pursuit trapped and worn down by Life Orb recoil. It's a one time check at best and Raikou is not really a switchin. Mostly an annoyance because it comes in fairly easily on Garchomp and has no switchin, although you do outspeed with Gar Starmie and Raik so I suppose it isn't too bad.

I think a lot of these can be fairly easily remedied with a few blanket checks, so nothing too big is required here. I'm going to assume the first version of the team when implementing changes as otherwise this could be quite difficult.

• Helmet Landorus-T > Tank Garchomp, this helps alleviate the Charizard and Excadrill weaknesses substantially while still handling say Lopunny and non Ice Punch Mega Metagross (which Garchomp lost to anyway) with Rocky Helmet and providing rocks for your team. It also has U-Turn to help keep momentum.
• To also help with Weavile (and Bisharp, now that we have LandoT) and add some more reliable pressure on Hippo for Raikou and Lopunny and Talonflame, I recommend Specs Keldeo > Gengar. This gives your team reliable balance breaking power and helps pressure common checks while also blowing Garchomp and LandoT away. However, this makes you weaker to Electrics with double waters, so this would have to come with:
• Defog Latios > Starmie, secondary Raik and Manectric check while also still checking Keldeo more reliably with recovery.
• Try going Offensive SD Talonflame with 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def Jolly, this allows you to outprioritize Weavile Ice Shard in late game scenarios and outspeed Electrics like Raikou and Magnezone, which if you're running Flare Blitz is ideal.

I think this changes the dynamic a fair bit for the team but the changes are worthwhile and make it more offensively synergistic. Good luck bro

importable

Lopunny (M) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Frustration
- Ice Punch

Talonflame (F) @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Flare Blitz

Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Signal Beam

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 172 Def / 88 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog
- Recover

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind

Thank you for the rate. Im going to try this team out later tonight. Ive had some new success with the above above changes but im fining it hard to keep gard up once chom is dead honestly.for keldo Do you have a differ mon that could fill its spot. Ive used it with the team before and imo it was mostly dead weight other than pink fatties and Bisharp,

 

[dream light]

Yeah don't do that anymore these are suggestions for the TC to consider not you.

Also Klefki checked 3/4 of the threats you noticed so I wasn't misguided in the rate.

I didn't recognize you were in a position to moderate the forum? Not looking for trouble, but I was stating my opinion on what I thought would make the team better. The only one of those threats that it checks reliably is Weavile, while the other three blow it away with their STABs and in the case of CharX and Keldeo switch out pretty easily on a predicted TWave while Excadrill doesn't care at all. It's nothing personal but I don't entirely agree with how the team was changed so far, if you want PM me and we can discuss further.

 

[Addiction]

A few comments on ideas I've seen from above raters: Taunt Gengar actually does beat Chansey 1 on 1, you don't necessarily need Blitz coverage if Ferro and Mag and stuff are well covered and I actually don't know how Scarf Raikou revenges anything given that it's quite weak. I also don't really get how SubCM Raik helps against stall when every decent stall build has Chansey + Quagsire, both of which wall Raikou hard even with multiple boosts assuming that your opponent is incompetent. Also how does adding Klefki help the team when his squad is already scrambling for ground resists against Excadrill O_o one of the raters above mentioned a CharX weak but didn't help with that either.

My response to what you said is in the hide tags.

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I'm going to try my best to keep emotion out of this and simply explain why you're wrong. First of all, his Gengar doesn't have Taunt, so I'm not sure why it's relevant that "Taunt Gengar beats Chansey 1 on 1." Even if one were to suggest Taunt, that doesn't really make Gengar some sort of premier stallbreaker, given that it does about 30% to Chansey with Focus Blast (assuming Focus Blast actually hits) while the other moves probably do about half of that. Life Orb eats 10% of its health with each hit, meaning it can only attack 10 times before it's dead and even less if it has to take any other sort of damage. You also fail to consider that his opponent can do this thing called switching out, which means he doesn't have actually have to 1v1 Gengar with Chansey.

"Ferro and Mag and stuff are well covered" is a pretty lousy reason to use an SD Talonflame that can't beat Metagross, Excadrill, Thundurus, Raikou, Zapdos, (pre-mega) Manectric, and possibly even a bulky SD Scizor along with, of course, Ferrothorn and Magnezone. You even named Excadrill as a threat yourself (and included Flare Blitz in your importable), but you still want to say Flare Blitz isn't needed? I don't see any argument here.

Raikou gives him something to revenge opposing SD Talonflame as well as outspeed and threaten Weavile and certain scarfers that annoy him, like Landorus-T and Garchomp. Though Scarf Raikou isn't the greatest mon, it's still doing more than Assault Vest Raikou, since it checks electric types even without Assault Vest and has equal strength.

I could go on to pick apart the flaws in your rate, but I'm not going to do that because it's not my role. We give advice, and the OP decides whether or not to take it. We don't badmouth the advice of others and argue over whose advice is best.

Also, brolatypus, when I said max speed on Talonflame, I meant Jolly as well. "Max speed" assumes a beneficial nature. Sorry I didn't specify that.

 

[JoarAddamNessosin]

My response to what you said is in the hide tags.

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I'm going to try my best to keep emotion out of this and simply explain why you're wrong. First of all, his Gengar doesn't have Taunt, so I'm not sure why it's relevant that "Taunt Gengar beats Chansey 1 on 1." Even if one were to suggest Taunt, that doesn't really make Gengar some sort of premier stallbreaker, given that it does about 30% to Chansey with Focus Blast (assuming Focus Blast actually hits) while the other moves probably do about half of that. Life Orb eats 10% of its health with each hit, meaning it can only attack 10 times before it's dead and even less if it has to take any other sort of damage. You also fail to consider that his opponent can do this thing called switching out, which means he doesn't have actually have to 1v1 Gengar with Chansey.

"Ferro and Mag and stuff are well covered" is a pretty lousy reason to use an SD Talonflame that can't beat Metagross, Excadrill, Thundurus, Raikou, Zapdos, (pre-mega) Manectric, and possibly even a bulky SD Scizor along with, of course, Ferrothorn and Magnezone. You even named Excadrill as a threat yourself (and included Flare Blitz in your importable), but you still want to say Flare Blitz isn't needed? I don't see any argument here.

Raikou gives him something to revenge opposing SD Talonflame as well as outspeed and threaten Weavile and certain scarfers that annoy him, like Landorus-T and Garchomp. Though Scarf Raikou isn't the greatest mon, it's still doing more than Assault Vest Raikou, since it checks electric types even without Assault Vest and has equal strength.

I could go on to pick apart the flaws in your rate, but I'm not going to do that because it's not my role. We give advice, and the OP decides whether or not to take it. We don't badmouth the advice of others and argue over whose advice is best.

Also, brolatypus, when I said max speed on Talonflame, I meant Jolly as well. "Max speed" assumes a beneficial nature. Sorry I didn't specify that.

I assumed jolly.