CAP Doubles Discussion Thread

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Kyubics

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CAP Doubles Discussion Thread
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Since this format will be included in the upcoming CAPTT3 and many people have expressed an interest it it, this thread is now open to discuss the Gen 7 CAP Doubles Metagame!

Some discussion points:​
  • What are you enjoying about this metagame?
  • Is there anything that you don't like about CAP Dubs at the moment?
  • How is it different to Doubles OU or regular CAP?
  • Have you noticed any particular threats in this metagame?
  • Have you found any good cores?
  • What playstyles have you found to be most prominent?
I'm open to any sample teams that I can include in the OP as well as sets for the CAP Sets Compendium, a collection of sets for CAP Pokemon in this metagame. I've included a couple of my own, but to submit one yourself just provide an importable of the set and a couple of sentences explaining what it does. Feel free to propose edits to any existing sets as well!


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Colossoil
Colossoil @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- High Horsepower
- Knock Off
- Wide Guard / Sucker Punch

This set offers team support while still hitting very hard. Fake Out is an incredible move in doubles with great utility while still hitting relatively hard thanks to Guts. High Horsepower is more powerful than Earthquake due to spread reduction and it does not hit Colossoil's partner, and Knock Off is a powerful STAB move. Wide Guard protects Colossoil and its partner from spread moves such as Hyper Voice and Muddy Water while Sucker Punch patches up its mediocre Speed. Speed investment outspeeds Jolly Scarf Lando in Tailwind while also functioning decently in Trick Room.

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Malaconda
Malaconda @ Figy Berry / Eject Button
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 48 SpD / 208 Spe
Careful Nature
- Follow Me
- Power Whip
- Synthesis / Glare / Knock Off / U-Turn
- Spiky Shield

Sets up the Sun while also being able to redirect attacks with Follow Me, giving free turns to its partners. Amazing special bulk allow Malaconda to take on many common Pokemon like Tapu Koko, Kingdra, Aegislash and Zapdos, although weaknesses to Flying and Fairy do hinder it. Synthesis recovers 66% in Sun while Glare, Knock Off and U-Turn are good utility options. Eject Button can be used to get a free switch into a teammate who can abuse the sun and the EVs outspeed base 130s in Tailwind with the rest dumped in SpD.
Malaconda @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 48 SpD / 208 Spe
Careful Nature
- Spiky Shield
- Glare / Knock Off
- Follow Me
- Power Whip

Very similar to the Sun Support except it abuses Harvest to get passive recovery from Sitrus Berry. This is better than the 50% pinch berries because it allows Malaconda to take two 51% attacks whereas the pinch berries don't allow Malaconda to take two 76% attacks. In Sun (provided by the likes of Mega Charizard Y) where Harvest is guaranteed, it is very difficult to take down Malaconda with any special attacker other than a Fire type.

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Syclant
Syclant @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Blizzard
- Earth Power
- Bug Buzz
- U-turn

Due to the rarity of Stealth Rock in Doubles, Syclant can forgo Mountaineer to use Compound Eyes, which grants it a 91% accurate spread move in Blizzard. Earth Power is good coverage, Bug Buzz is STAB while U-Turn has good utility. Max speed with a Choice Scarf allows Syclant to outspeed the majority of the metagame and hit them with a powerful Blizzard (which has a decent chance to freeze), including both Mega Swampert and Kingdra in rain.
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Revenankh
Revenankh @ Misty Seed
Ability: Triage
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Shadow Claw
- Protect

Tapu Fini is a great partner to Revenankh, preventing it from being statused while giving it recovery with Heal Pulse (RIP Swagger). Misty Seed boosts Revenankh's Special Defense one time, giving it great mixed bulk with Bulk Up, which also boosts its Attack. Triage Drain Punch is amazing while Shadow Claw is good neutral coverage and secondary STAB. Protect is necessary so a partner can deal with the likes of Marshadow while Revenankh is trying to sweep. EVs outspeed base 130s in Tailwind while making Revenankh hit as hard as possible.
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Tomohawk
Tomohawk @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 84 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Quash
- Taunt
- Roost
In a meta where speed control is super important, Tomohawk establishes a niche of bypassing opposing slower Prankster, Tailwind, Trick Room, and faster mons by using the very rare combo of Prankster Quash (the only other Pokemon to get that is Sableye, which doesn't sport the bulk or as many resists as Tomohawk).

This allows the player to make certain plays that would be unable to be performed without guaranteeing one opposing Pokemon goes last. Typically this Pokemon should be paired with a heavy hitter on the battlefield to make use of the Prankster Quash mechanic, such as Mega Metagross.

Moveslot Reasoning
Taunt is to prevent Tomohawk from being setup bait, prevent the opponent from using disrupting support moves, and also stopping offensive Pokemon from being able to use Protect (as well as probably many other useful things).
Air Slash is preferred over Aura Sphere to hit Lando-T and Tapu Bulu, which would otherwise resist the fighting STAB. It also has no immunities.
Roost is to provide longevity, allowing Tomohawk to stay in for the duration of the match, and to be able to be neutral to Electric and Ice moves the turn it Roosts. However, this last moveslot is relatively untested, so you can replace it with Haze (to stop setup in its tracts/Snorlax), or even use Aura Sphere here.

Item and EV Distribution
Rocky Helmet is chosen on this set to punish physical attackers for touching it, getting useful chip damage. However, this section of the set is relatively untested as well, so you can probably replace it with a Pinch Berry or Sitrus or something.

The HP combined with the Special Defense EVs allow Tomohawk to hit a benchmark, up to avoiding the OHKO from Life Orb Syclant's Blizzard and avoiding the 2HKO from Modest Aegislash's Shadow Ball. The rest of the EVs are dumped into physical defense to make Tomohawk do what it does best: wall physical attackers (it also lives one Mega-Metagross' Zen Headbutt outside Psychic Terrain). If you want some more examples of the EV benchmarks, just ask me.
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Here's a set that I thought would be cool in CAP Doubles.

frontnormal-ftomohawk.png

Tomohawk @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 84 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Quash
- Taunt
- Roost
​
In a meta where speed control is super important, Tomohawk establishes a niche of bypassing opposing slower Prankster, Tailwind, Trick Room, and faster mons by using the very rare combo of Prankster Quash (the only other Pokemon to get that is Sableye, which doesn't sport the bulk or as many resists as Tomohawk).

This allows the player to make certain plays that would be unable to be performed without guaranteeing one opposing Pokemon goes last. Typically this Pokemon should be paired with a heavy hitter on the battlefield to make use of the Prankster Quash mechanic, such as Mega Metagross.

Taunt is to prevent Tomohawk from being setup bait, prevent the opponent from using disrupting support moves, and also stopping offensive Pokemon from being able to use Protect (as well as probably many other useful things).

Air Slash is preferred over Aura Sphere to hit Lando-T and Tapu Bulu, which would otherwise resist the fighting STAB. It also has no immunities.

Roost is to provide longevity, allowing Tomohawk to stay in for the duration of the match, and to be able to be neutral to Electric and Ice moves the turn it Roosts. However, this last moveslot is relatively untested, so you can replace it with Haze (to stop setup in its tracts/Snorlax), or even use Aura Sphere here.

Rocky Helmet is chosen on this set to punish physical attackers for touching it, getting useful chip damage. However, this section of the set is relatively untested as well, so you can probably replace it with a Pinch Berry or Sitrus or something.

The HP combined with the Special Defense EVs allow Tomohawk to hit a benchmark, up to avoiding the OHKO from Life Orb Syclant's Blizzard and avoiding the 2HKO from Modest Aegislash's Shadow Ball. The rest of the EVs are dumped into physical defense to make Tomohawk do what it does best: wall physical attackers (it also lives one Mega-Metagross' Zen Headbutt outside Psychic Terrain). If you want some more examples of the EV benchmarks, just ask me.

Edit: an Intimidate set with Eject Button is also probably viable, I just wanted to show how Tomohawk would use its Prankster ability in Doubles. A fast special wallbreaker with Life Orb, Hurricane, and Focus Blast can be used BUT there are better special attackers that either provide more support in the form of a terrain (Tapus), are faster, or have more accurate STABs.
 
This is a core that I've found pretty useful and effective as I've been learning doubles

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landorus-therian.gif

Plasmanta @ Life Orb
Ability: Telepathy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Sludge Wave
- Electroweb / Wide Guard
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Rock Slide
- Explosion / Superpower

Starting off with Plasmanta, his respectable base 100 speed and 131 Sp Atk mean that maximum investment in each coupled with a positive speed nature and life orb gives it maximum damage output while not sacrificing the flexibility it has between its stab moves/coverage move(s). With regards to the moveset, dual stab is relatively self explanatory. Hidden Power Fire is also preferred on the set in order to hit things such as Ferrothorn mainly which would otherwise completely wall Plasma and The last moveslot however is up to the player's choice or up to fit what the team needs. Electro Web helps the team mainly as a means of speed control while Wide Guard provides support for the team blocking spread moves such as muddy water/surf/EQ etc.

In Lando's case the set is mostly standard. Choice scarf allows it to outpace many of the meta's threats and base 145 atk is no joke when coupled with powerful stab in the form of EQ as well as a plethora of other multi-hit options. EQ as the main spammable STAB move, rock slide in order to hit fliers/levitaters, and U-turn in order to gain momentum and give Lando the option to swap out in a bad situation. The 4th slot however is again up to the users choice. Explosion can be used as a very powerful last ditch hit that Lando can fire off hopefully taking 1-2 mons with it while Superpower can be used in the case where damage on mons such as Kyurem-B/Kartana/Ferrothorn etc. are more important than a last powerful hit.

Ok so at a glance, you might not really see how the synergy between these guys really work, as Plasma is quad weak to Lando's most potent stab move EQ, but once you take into account Plasma's ability Telepathy the synergy becomes more apparent(Just a little note for those who do not know how telepathy works, it makes it so that the mon, in this case Plasma, is immune to moves fired off by allies, such as explosion/EQ from lando). From an offensive standpoint I have found these two to work great in conjunction with each other, they both take out opposing threats that the other cannot necessarily handle. Scarf Lando-T is one of the biggest threats in the doubles meta but struggles with bulky waters, grasses, and flying types when locked into EQ, its strongest and most spammable attacking move. But, when paired with Plasma, these three things no longer become issues. Poison and Electric STAB coming off of base 131 Sp Atk backed with a LO boost neuters most if not all of the normal checks lando faces in the doubles Meta. From the other perspective, Lando also aids Plasmanta by taking out opposing mons that it would normally struggle with. While I have found Plasma to be a very solid mon in the doubles meta, it lacks the raw power to break through some of the tiers bulkier mons that it cannot score SE hits against. Mons such as Amoongus, Gigalith, Diancie, Alolan Marowak, etc. do a fair job of stopping Plasma dead in its tracks but with Lando now in the picture, the ability of these mons to reliably answer Plasma are greatly reduced. Also worth mentioning is how both of these mons have powerful STAB spread moves. While being weakened by the very nature of them being spread moves, Lando's EQ and Plasma's Discharge/Sludge Wave still hit like a truck and have useful side effects (Para from Plasma's discharge, poison from sludge, or flinches from Lando's rock slide). So overall these two mons have great synergy with each other and benefit greatly from the boons brought by the other mon.

For those of you who do not want to read the whole breakdown the main premise is, these two mons help support the weaknesses of the other, and their super spammable stab moves allow for maintaining pressure on the opponents entire team. Thanks for reading!
 
Ming549 said:
This is a core that I've found pretty useful and effective as I've been learning doubles

frontnormal-mplasmanta.png
landorus-therian.gif

Plasmanta @ Life Orb
Ability: Telepathy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Sludge Wave
- Electroweb / Wide Guard
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Rock Slide
- Explosion / Superpower

Starting off with Plasmanta, his respectable base 100 speed and 131 Sp Atk mean that maximum investment in each coupled with a positive speed nature and life orb gives it maximum damage output while not sacrificing the flexibility it has between its stab moves/coverage move(s). With regards to the moveset, dual stab is relatively self explanatory. Hidden Power Fire is also preferred on the set in order to hit things such as Ferrothorn mainly which would otherwise completely wall Plasma and The last moveslot however is up to the player's choice or up to fit what the team needs. Electro Web helps the team mainly as a means of speed control while Wide Guard provides support for the team blocking spread moves such as muddy water/surf/EQ etc.

In Lando's case the set is mostly standard. Choice scarf allows it to outpace many of the meta's threats and base 145 atk is no joke when coupled with powerful stab in the form of EQ as well as a plethora of other multi-hit options. EQ as the main spammable STAB move, rock slide in order to hit fliers/levitaters, and U-turn in order to gain momentum and give Lando the option to swap out in a bad situation. The 4th slot however is again up to the users choice. Explosion can be used as a very powerful last ditch hit that Lando can fire off hopefully taking 1-2 mons with it while Superpower can be used in the case where damage on mons such as Kyurem-B/Kartana/Ferrothorn etc. are more important than a last powerful hit.

Ok so at a glance, you might not really see how the synergy between these guys really work, as Plasma is quad weak to Lando's most potent stab move EQ, but once you take into account Plasma's ability Telepathy the synergy becomes more apparent(Just a little note for those who do not know how telepathy works, it makes it so that the mon, in this case Plasma, is immune to moves fired off by allies, such as explosion/EQ from lando). From an offensive standpoint I have found these two to work great in conjunction with each other, they both take out opposing threats that the other cannot necessarily handle. Scarf Lando-T is one of the biggest threats in the doubles meta but struggles with bulky waters, grasses, and flying types when locked into EQ, its strongest and most spammable attacking move. But, when paired with Plasma, these three things no longer become issues. Poison and Electric STAB coming off of base 131 Sp Atk backed with a LO boost neuters most if not all of the normal checks lando faces in the doubles Meta. From the other perspective, Lando also aids Plasmanta by taking out opposing mons that it would normally struggle with. While I have found Plasma to be a very solid mon in the doubles meta, it lacks the raw power to break through some of the tiers bulkier mons that it cannot score SE hits against. Mons such as Amoongus, Gigalith, Diancie, Alolan Marowak, etc. do a fair job of stopping Plasma dead in its tracks but with Lando now in the picture, the ability of these mons to reliably answer Plasma are greatly reduced. Also worth mentioning is how both of these mons have powerful STAB spread moves. While being weakened by the very nature of them being spread moves, Lando's EQ and Plasma's Discharge/Sludge Wave still hit like a truck and have useful side effects (Para from Plasma's discharge, poison from sludge, or flinches from Lando's rock slide). So overall these two mons have great synergy with each other and benefit greatly from the boons brought by the other mon.

For those of you who do not want to read the whole breakdown the main premise is, these two mons help support the weaknesses of the other, and their super spammable stab moves allow for maintaining pressure on the opponents entire team. Thanks for reading!
Click to expand...

That sounds like a great core, I love the synergy between Plas and Lando both in how they handle threats for each other and how they are immune to the other's spread moves. I've got a couple of suggestions which might make it a little more effective but bear in mind that it is just my opinion :)

Plasmanta @ Life Orb
Ability: Telepathy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice] / Taunt
- Protect / Electroweb / Wide Guard

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Rock Slide
- Superpower

In my opinion, Sludge Bomb should be used over Sludge Wave not only because it is more powerful and has a higher chance to Poison, it also does not hit Plasmanta's partner and gives Plasmanta a powerful single-target move. This is important because the core currently struggles against Wide Guard users, and Plasmanta can also run Taunt to help combat this. Taunt is useful to the core in many ways, not only for preventing Wide Guard, but for preventing Trick Room and Tailwind, which make this core much more vulnerable as they will likely be moving last. Hidden Power Ice is also an option worth noting in my opinion as it allows Plasmanta to deal with Ground types like Zygade and opposing Landorus-T, something that the core would otherwise struggle to do. Protect is just generally a great move in doubles on any Pokemon that can run it, allowing the user to better position their Pokemon or deal with an opposing threat to Plasmanta with their second Pokemon on the field. Personally, I think that Superpower is best in Lando's last slot to help better deal with Ferrothorn and Snorlax, two Pokemon that this core could struggle to break through. A similar Landorus-T set with Groundium Z and Protect over U-Turn could be helpful in dealing with Pokemon like Wide Guard Aegislash which otherwise trouble this core, but it leaves the core a little slow and in need of speed control support.
 
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↑
This is a core that I've found pretty useful and effective as I've been learning doubles

frontnormal-mplasmanta.png

Sets (open)



Set Breakdown (open)



Core Breakdown (open)



For those of you who do not want to read the whole breakdown the main premise is, these two mons help support the weaknesses of the other, and their super spammable stab moves allow for maintaining pressure on the opponents entire team. Thanks for reading!That sounds like a great core, I love the synergy between Plas and Lando both in how they handle threats for each other and how they are immune to the other's spread moves. I've got a couple of suggestions which might make it a little more effective but bear in mind that it is just my opinion :)

Plasmanta @ Life Orb
Ability: Telepathy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice] / Taunt- Protect / Electroweb / Wide Guard

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Rock Slide
- Superpower

In my opinion, Sludge Bomb should be used over Sludge Wave not only because it is more powerful and has a higher chance to Poison, it also does not hit Plasmanta's partner and gives Plasmanta a powerful single-target move. This is important because the core currently struggles against Wide Guard users, and Plasmanta can also run Taunt to help combat this. Taunt is useful to the core in many ways, not only for preventing Wide Guard, but for preventing Trick Room and Tailwind, which make this core much more vulnerable as they will likely be moving last. Hidden Power Ice is also an option worth noting in my opinion as it allows Plasmanta to deal with Ground types like Zygade and opposing Landorus-T, something that the core would otherwise struggle to do. Protect is just generally a great move in doubles on any Pokemon that can run it, allowing the user to better position their Pokemon or deal with an opposing threat to Plasmanta with their second Pokemon on the field. Personally, I think that Superpower is best in Lando's last slot to help better deal with Ferrothorn and Snorlax, two Pokemon that this core could struggle to break through. A similar Landorus-T set with Groundium Z and Protect over U-Turn could be helpful in dealing with Pokemon like Wide Guard Aegislash which otherwise trouble this core, but it leaves the core a little slow and in need of speed control support.
Click to expand...

Yeah man! I can totally agree with some of the points you've made, I think bomb on Plasma would actually benefit from it for all the points you've mentioned. Also for that last slot on Plasma, I was considering putting HP Ice as an option but I found it not as useful on paper as the only practical targets I thought it would hit would be Lando-T/Garchomp and from my experience Lando normally is scarfed while Garchomp just naturally outspeeds. But you have totally valid points and I could totally see Plasma running that as an option. I also really like the suggestions of Taunt/Protect, I wasn't even considering the TR option but on a second look it does look to pose a threat to the core. I might actually edit my original post to include some of these points you've mentioned, thanks for the feedback!
 
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