CAP Updates: Colossoil Discussion (Complete)

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Pickup or Run Away seem vaguely fitting. The first; it dives through the earth and finds items - and the second While it is a fierce battler, Moby Dick was able avoid Ahab.

Of course, these have no competive use.
 

jas61292

used substitute
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My favorite option is definitely Lightning Rod. I mean, if Rhydon can have it Colo definitely can. Its competitively worthless in singles, and super fitting. Anger Point is also an ability that I think would work very well. Colossoil looks the part, it has precedence in the Sandile line, and it is a competitively worthless ability. I know some people have expressed concern about it, but those concerns are totally unfounded, because the tiny chance that you might become supper powerful is never, ever going to make it worth running over Guts on any set. No Pokemon that has this ability ever uses it competitively, and a few arguably do not have nearly as good an alternative ability as Guts. It would never be used, but it would fit in perfectly. Exactly what we want.
 
Pikachu, aim for the horn!

But seriously, Colossoil already has two great Abilities, as many of you already know. One of them is the custom Rebound, even though it prefers Guts to ignore the Attack drop from being burned. I'm rooting for Anger Point or Lightning Rod because Colossoil looks like it would be easily provoked by being hit, and it has a drill for a horn. He wouldn't want to use the former at all or the latter in Singles.
 

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
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Anger Point's sole flavor point appears to be "other Ground mons get it." Why not Moxie then, aside from Moxie being far too competitive? Sandile line precedence etc.

Colossoil always struck me as menacing, not "angry." In any case the poll will be up soon.
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
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I already said this in my previous post, but Colossoil just has a very angry vibe going on for me. He's constantly posed with an open mouth to show his sharp teeth, something that can be viewed as an act of aggression. His narrow eyes the glare at the opposing Pokemon look very "angry" to me as well and my personal opinion is that very few other mons have "angrier" eyes than Colossoil.


Tauros has similarly shaped eyes as well, for what it's worth.

Some of the mons with Anger Point seem to have it based on the associated animal's perceived behavior; bulls are commonly thought of as aggressive, easy to agitate animals. Crocodiles don't quite have that same level of association, but are still fairly territorial. Male narwhals are seen "jousting" with each other in a similar way to how male bulls or male crocodiles might fight. And we also have stories of aggressive, angry whales of other species, such as Moby Dick.

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
 
Anger Point and Lightning Rod are my favorites. Colossoil seems like it's capable of becoming really angry in the same way Tauros, Primeape, and friends can, and its competitive impact is minuscule to the point where it'll never be seriously picked over Guts or Rebound. Lightning Rod fits because of that horn, plain and simple, and the competitive impact is effectively zero.

No to Klutz. Colossoil is way too good at basketball to have such an ability.
 
Lightning Rod is also an ability I can get behind, it makes complete sense. I'm not the biggest fan of Anger Point because I think Colossoil is more intimidating than angry, but I can definitely see the merit of it.

Unnerve, Lightning Rod, and Anger Point are, in my opinion, the three best abilities and the ones we should be narrowing down to. None of the other ones are particularly bad, I just think these all represent the flavor aspect the best without any competitive use.
 

snake

is a Community Leaderis a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
CAP Co-Leader
A poll for Hidden Abilities will be up shortly! This is the slate:

Anger Point
Lightning Rod
Pressure
Sand Veil
Unnerve

No Hidden Ability


While the poll for HA goes, we will have 24 hours to talk about consistency moves. Remember that Colossoil, despite using mainly STAB moves and not many coverage moves, is a solid threat already, so any new moves must have limited competitive effect. If you think a move might have a competitive impact, provide calcs and reasoning as to why it does not. After 24 hours, updated movepool submissions will be open for 48 hours. Please do NOT post movepools (WIPs included) until then. You are free to start creating your movepool sub until then, so here is Colossoil's current movepool. Note that Colossoil is in the Water 2 and Field Egg Groups.

What moves fit Colossoil's design or typing and why? Why do these moves have minimal competitive impact?
 
Last edited:
I'll just list off some moves that I think are particularly flavorful to start:
  • Confide/Round - Universal TMs.
  • Bulldoze - Nearly universal for Pokemon with Earthquake.
  • Drill Run - Have you seen that drill on Colossoil's head? It'd be a shame if it didn't get Drill Run from this update.
  • Foul Play - A majority of Dark-types receive this thanks to it being a tutor move. Colossoil would rather be using moves like Knock Off and Sucker Punch off its own high Attack stat, rendering this a subpar competitive option.
  • Smart Strike - Gen 7 TM received by most Pokemon with a horn. Not really worth it over Iron Tail (which Colossoil rarely runs to begin with), as a neutral STAB Earthquake is stronger than a super effective Smart Strike.
 

LucarioOfLegends

Master Procraster
is a CAP Contributor
What moves fit Colossoil's design or typing and why? Why do these moves have minimal competitive impact?
Foul Play
seems fairly fitting due to its nature as a dark type, and it wouldn't have much use over its other Dark STABs. Drill Run is also quite flavorful because of its massive drill. Smart Strike also counts because of its Horn Drill. The only other move that would work for Colossoil is Brutal Swing. While this move has been hammered thoroughly into the ground, Colossoil can swing is massive body, and synergizes with Colo's brutal nature.
 
Gen 5 Moves
Bulldoze - Consistent with Earthquake and strictly worse
Drill Run - It has a giant drill on its head; strictly worse than eq
Chip Away - I don't know, this just looks like it fits to me; literally a trash move
Foul Play - It's a dark type that looks like it plays dirty >.>; Colo would always prefer to be using Knock Off/Pursuit/Sucker Punch

Gen 6 Moves
Rototiller - It's a ground type with a drill, which reminds me, kind of, of tilling the land; completely useless in singles

Gen 7 Moves
I got nothing. To me, Colo's arms look to stubby for Brutal Swing, and Smart Strike seems kind of risky as it's a reliable steel attack, unlike Iron Tail, on a mon weak to fairies. Maybe it isn't competitive, and if it isn't then I'd support it, but I'm just not sure atm.
 

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Colossoil actually makes sense for Brutal Swing, as a significant portion of the Pokemon that learn it are serpentine. All you really need is a relatively long body to swing around, which Colossoil has. It could also swing its drill around for what that's worth.

Heavy Slam is learned by a surprisingly large number of large / heavy Ground types. I suppose it would be more accurate than Iron Tail and stronger than Smart Strike though. High Horsepower also gets distributed to Heavy Pokemon, specifically Golett line, Mudbray line, and Snorlax. Drill Run is obviously more flavorful and accessible, but HH is there. Soil doesn't really look like it could stomp for Stomping Tantrum.
 
Drill Run - I'm starting to question the tought process of whoever came up with Soil's Gen 5 movepool. HOW can you miss such a good move that's makes so much sense.

Heavy Slam - yes it has quite the competitive implications, but if we look at all the mons that do get HS, it actually would be akward not to give Soil Heavy Slam (it's a giant whale, even Wailord learns Heavy Slam and that thing is light enough to float)

High Horsepower - all of the mons that get this move, just like HS, have a common theme: they're big and heavy. It's also slightly less accurate and powerfull then Earthquake so I don't really see Soil give up on EQ for a slightly dummed down version of it.

Brutal Swing - Deck already said why it fits, you just need a strong and long enough body to qualify for this move.

Foul Play - a lot of Dark mons play dirty and Soil doesn't seen to be a exception (both figuratively and literally).
 

Quanyails

On sabbatical!
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Bulldoze: It gets Earthquake, and Colossoil should be able to bulldoze the ground it drills.

Drill Run
: It's a Ground-type Pokemon with a drill. It's 99% outclassed by Earthquake. It'd be a shame to not give Colossoil this move.

High Horsepower: I can see Colossoil getting this move, and it's outclassed by Earthquake except in Doubles and/or you want to make contact with the opponent. It's got pretty limited distribution, though; other bulky-looking Ground-type Pokemon don't get the move. One thing to consider is that every Pokemon that gets High Horsepower also gets Heavy Slam.

Smart Strike: Yep. Colossoil's big drill horn fits with the Rhyhorn line and Excadrill for move distribution. If Colossoil wanted to use Steel-type coverage, it would've already done so.

Foul Play: Sure. By virtue of its typing, Foul Play is a natural fit, and Colossoil likes using its own Attack stat for STAB moves. (But would a skilled basketball player really play dirty?)

Chip Away: Sounds like a good fit. A lot of the other Pokemon that get look menacing and/or spiky, and I can see Colossoil wearing out the opponent.

Wide Guard: Colossoil is big enough and can spread its arms out to protect against spread moves. There's another basketball joke in here somewhere that I can't be bothered to make.

There's nothing mentioned so far that I strictly oppose. '3'
 

G-Luke

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Rototiller - Colossoil does not seem like the type of digger that would promote growth, as it looks as if it drills indiscriminately and quite destructively. Big no to this.

I can agree with Heavy Slam on Colossoil. It literally is heavier than Dialga, the heaviest thing at the time of its creation. Besides, if it gains Heavy Slam, I doubt it will use it to much effect, as its STABs, U-Turn and Rapid Spin are too useful.
 

jas61292

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Don't have too much I disagree with so far. Bulldoze and Drill Run should be a given. Smart Strike makes sense. And Foul Play is also fitting. Not as sold on some of the others, such as High Horsepower and Brutal Swing, but not so much that I would really argue against them. That said...
Wide Guard: Colossoil is big enough and can spread its arms out to protect against spread moves. There's another basketball joke in here somewhere that I can't be bothered to make.
...gonna have to oppose this one. Colossoil is over 8 feet tall. It's clearly a Center or at least a Forward, not a Guard.
 

snake

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Heavy Slam on a mon that struggles a little bit with Fairy-types (defensively at least) raises some red flags for me. Don't get me wrong, the flavor is incredible, but a move that can pretty consistently have 120 BP with no drawbacks (not even low accuracy) is useful. Iron Tail rarely used because of its low accuracy, but Heavy Slam could be a legitimate place in Colossoil's moveslots. I'd like to see some competitive reasoning (if any) for this move before we move on.
 

snake

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Alrighty movepool submissions are now open for 48 hours (unless people need more time). There will be a poll after this period has elapsed.

Required Additions: Bulldoze, Confide, Round
Blacklisted Moves: Heavy Slam

Heavy Slam is much more reliable than Iron Tail given how heavy Colossoil is, and it's honestly not that bad of a pick since it can do a lot of damage in tandem with Earthquake and Knock Off. Heavy Slam would improve the viability of Colossoil's Choice Scarf set:

Colossoil @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Heavy Slam

Colosoil always runs Earthquake / Knock Off / U-turn on scarf sets because STABs + pivoting = nice Scarf set. However, it's fourth move has always been Pursuit or Rapid Spin, moves that don't /really/ have a place on a Scarf set unless you're gunning super hard for role compression. However, Heavy Slam is just a perfect candidate for a Scarf set: it's basically a consistent 120 Base Power move off of a type that's not even that terrible of a type to lock yourself into, especially with the threat of EQ, Knock Off, and U-turn. To that end, your opponent probably won't even think of the Scarf set, unless it became more standard. You don't have to chip down Scarf Tapu Lele to KO it with Earthquake at like 83%; you can just click Heavy Slam (if you win the Speed tie). Kerfluffle, who would normally outspeed, also gets slammed when it'd survive and Earthquake before.

Scarf Colo vs. Tapu Lele and Kerfluffle
252 Atk Colossoil Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Lele: 316-372 (112.4 - 132.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Colossoil Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kerfluffle: 284-336 (91.9 - 108.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Tapu Bulu in general gets hit pretty hard by Heavy Slam no matter what set you run it on, and Colossoil can easily run enough Speed to outspeed max Speed Adamant Tapu Bulu (common for Choice Band). Clefable gets slammed pretty hard on most sets, and on the Guts set, Heavy Slam OHKOes. While Iron Tail could be run, it's not quite as powerful and has a pretty sucky accuracy check. While Heavy Slam has worse base power against heavy targets, most of the the relevant ones (Colossoil itself, Naviathan, Heatran, Zygarde, Mega Gyarados, Scolipede, Tyranitar) that fall out of the 100 BP range are scared of STAB Earthquake or force Colossoil out anyways.

Scarf, AV, and Guts Colo vs. Tapu Bulu
252 Atk Colossoil Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 222-262 (79 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Colossoil Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 244-288 (86.8 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 364-430 (129.5 - 153%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Scarf, AV, and Guts Colo vs. Max / Max Bold Unaware Clefable
252 Atk Colossoil Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 220-260 (55.8 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Colossoil Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 242-286 (61.4 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 362-426 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

While AV and Guts appreciate the moveslots for Pursuit and Sucker Punch (Rapid Spin and all of that), and Guts sets definitely like Facade a lot, Heavy Slam does have competitive merit; it just makes Colossoil manhandle Fairy-types too well.


Remember that even moves like Zen Headbutt could have competitive implication: if it's remotely competitive, you need to explain why it doesn't provide a huge impact (include some calcs and reasoning). I will blacklist any move that is too competitive. If a new move has a weird interaction with the result of Colossoil's Hidden Ability poll (the current options are Anger Point, Lightning Rod, and Unnerve), it needs to be addressed or removed, but I don't think this will happen.
 
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snake

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Since it seems like this will be the last update for me, I'm going to extend the deadline by 48 hours (so 72 hours from now). There's not a time *crunch* like I thought I was.
 

G-Luke

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Final Submission

0 High Horsepower (Heart Scale)
0 Leer
0 Peck
Evo Move: Drill Run
5 Horn Attack
10 Bite
16 Mud-Slap
21 Rapid Spin
26 Fury Attack
32 Magnitude
37 Pursuit
42 Body Slam
48 Bounce
53 Stockpile
53 Swallow
53 Spit Up
58 Crunch
64 Megahorn
69 Giga Impact
74 Horn Drill

So for starters, I dropped in a 5-5-6 level up pattern, which is basically an organized version of what was there prior. Went with High Horsepower as a Heart Scale move, similar to Golurk. It was discussed and not much opposition was made. I made Drill Run the Evo Move, as it seems flavourful and sketch art of Colossoil's evo lacks one. I moved Mud-Slap from move tutors as it disturbed me that a Ground type didn't learn any sort of ground type attack til 40 range levels, and it would have been in Transfers anyways. Added Fury Attack as it is not uncommon for horned Pokémon to learn this attack.

Lastly I added Giga Impact in its level up pool. Y'all maybe wondering why. Well, after the failed Heavy Slam compaign some consideration, I thought that such a massive beast should be able to cause incredible damage if it slam its body into its opponent. Since H Slam got the boot, I pondered until I saw Snorlax's movepool and spotted Giga Impact. Then I looked up stuff that learned it via level up and the flavour nicely - fierce, large, menacing Pokemon get it, and Colossoil is all of the above! So I had to drop it in.

TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM12 Taunt
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM37 Sandstorm
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM41 Torment

TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM59 Brutal Swing

TM63 Embargo
TM66 Payback
TM67 Smart Strike
TM68 Giga Impact
TM71 Stone Edge
TM78 Bulldoze
TM80 Rock Slide
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM95 Snarl
TM97 Dark Pulse
TM100 Confide

Confide and Round mandatory additions to the movepool. Almost every ground type has Bulldoze and Rock Tomb, so Colossoil shouldnt be an exception. Brutal Swing was discussed and found that Colossoil would indeed sling its massive body aeound in a brutal manner. Smart Strike had universal support as well, and Snarl makes sense as most Dark types learn this attack. Torment also fits this bill.

Chip Away
Double-Edge
Encore
Fake Out
Fire Fang
Fissure
Flail
Horn Drill
Mimic
Sand Tomb
Screech
Sucker Punch
Thunder Fang
Wide Guard (Alomomola, Stufful)

Very simple additions here. Chip Away was added to egg moves as people seemed to have alot of support for it, but I couldn't find a spot for it in level up. Mimic is one of those shaky Gen 3 Tutors, so it was moved here to keep it in. I finally added Wide Guard as not only is Colossoil massice enough to perform this attack, Its a basketballer that can play any position.

Ancient Power
Aqua Tail
Body Slam
Bounce
Double-Edge
Dive

Earth Power
Knock Off
Mimic
Mud-Slap
Rollout

Snore
Sucker Punch
Superpower

Aqua Tail
Block
Bounce
Drill Run
Earth Power
Foul Play
Iron Tail
Knock Off
Snatch
Snore
Superpower

So I cleaned up its Tutor movepool by removing the Gen 3 and 4 Tutors that did not fit, as well as moving old TMs that became Tutors here. Added Block as Colossoil is a large menacing Pokemon capable of blocking the ways of opponents it must learn all basketball moves. Duplicated Drill Run in the Tutors list and added Foul Play, as it was consistent with most Dark types gaining it.

Ancient Power (G4 Tutor)
Captivate (G4 TM78)
Dig (TM28)
Dive (G4 Tutor)
Endure (G4 TM58)
Natural Gift (G4 TM83)
Retaliate (G5/6 TM67)
Rock Smash (G5/XY TM94 / ORAS HM06)
Rollout (G4 Tutor)
Secret Power (G4 TM43 / ORAS TM94)
Strength (HM04)

Added Retaliate as it seems flavourful on Colossoil.



My reasoning for no Rototiller.
Rototiller - Colossoil does not seem like the type of digger that would promote growth, as it looks as if it drills indiscriminately and quite destructively. Big no to this.
 
Last edited:
I would like to bring up some moves (including old ones) which have not been discussed yet with potential competitive implications:
- Rock Tomb is somehow missing from Colossoil's current movepool; note that the only fully-evolved Ground-type without it is Zygarde. It does provide speed control, but so does Bulldoze which is required.
- Iron Head is weaker but more accurate than Iron Tail.

- Snarl is widely distributed among Dark-types, but Colossoil's good bulk could make it undesirable. (It most likely wouldn't be worth it, though.)
- Power Trip is learned by fellow Ground/Dark Krookodile and is not a "true" signature move due to it being available as an egg move. Its description mentions the user "boasting its strength", which may or may not fit. It might interact undesirably with Stockpile, though.
- Colossoil has some sort of claws so Hone Claws would fit, but it would give it a way to boost its attack (and accuracy; relevant for Iron Tail) which, again, might not be desirable.
- Note that Foul Play is widely distributed but not universal among Dark-types (up to G6 and the ORAS tutor): it is not learned by Crawdaunt, Greninja, Drapion, Hydreigon and Sharpedo. They (except Greninja) seem to be overall brutal and "stupid" Pokémon, so I don't know if Foul Play should be required on the similarly brutal Colossoil (as a counterexample Tyranitar gets it, though).

As a more general question, is moving moves from level-up to egg allowed as long as no move disappears completely from the movepool?

Asking for input on these before I submit anything.
 
Last edited:

snake

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Rock Tomb, Snarl, Power Trip, and Foul Play I'll allow. Iron Head is slightly stronger than Smart Strike but it might be a little dangerous so a little justification would be required. I don't like Hone Claws because Colossoil shouldn't be able to set up.

Moving moves from Level Up to Egg Moves is ok with me (I did this with Pyroak and Fire Spin) as long as it's not excessive and makes the movepool look radically different. We're trying to improve the flavor of the movepools, not overwrite them.
 
Final Submission

In the following, I will include some notes about how I envision the moves of Colossoil's pre-evolution (note that Colosshale has been voted to be redesigned). Please note that these are not meant to be mandatory and are free to be disregarded during the actual pre-evolution design process itself.

1 Rototiller
1 Leer
1 Peck
Evolution: Drill Run
6 Horn Attack
11 Bite
17 Rapid Spin
22 Pursuit
27 Magnitude
33 Chip Away
38 Stockpile
38 Swallow
38 Spit Up
44 Body Slam
51 Bounce
57 Crunch
63 Megahorn
70 Horn Drill
Colossoil's current movepool has moves being learned at 5-6 intervals, which quickly become 6-7 (plus an odd gap of 8 between 55 and 63) starting between level 22 and 29. This would imply an evolution in the level 22-29 range, which seems pretty low for something as strong as Colossoil.

My movepool has moves learned at 5-5-6 intervals: I wanted to keep the numbers similar, and the smaller intervals allow for more moves to be learned more quickly. The evolution-induced delays start in the 38-42 range, which to me seems more reasonable than the current gap (consider Wailmer, for example, which evolves at level 40). This means Colossoil's pre-evolution would learn its final move at level 65: it is high, but note that Drowzee learns its final move at level 61, plus there is always the possibility of some moves being removed (Horn Drill would be safe as it is also an egg move).

Additionally, several moves have been shuffled around to be more consistent with the levels at which they are learned by actual Pokémon; notably, Magnitude and Stockpile/Swallow/Spit Up are earlier and Body Slam and Bounce are later.

I have added:
- Rototiller, which is commonly available to Pokémon with a strong association with digging. Level 1 as usual.
- Drill Run as an evolution move. I assume Colossoil's new pre-evolution will either lack a drill, or have a smaller one. This does not preclude access to Drill Run to said pre-evolution, as move tutors exist.
- Chip Away, which is commonly learned by Pokémon with spiky protrusions / a brutal nature. Even if Colossoil's pre-evolution will end up lacking spikes, Chip Away is also available to odder cases like Lickitung and Snorlax.

Double-Edge
Encore
Fake Out
Fire Fang
Fissure
Flail
Horn Drill
Iron Tail (Rhyhorn <- Aron; transferred Pokémon)
Mimic (Snubbull/Furfrou <- Jigglypuff; transferred Pokémon)
Sand Tomb
Screech
Sucker Punch
Thunder Fang
Nothing here is truly new, as every new move I deemed fitting has been added somewhere else.
- Mimic is one of those pesky G3 tutors that have to be kept for consistency.
- Iron Tail is an old TM/tutor which has been somewhat widely distributed as an egg move after it lost its TM status in the G4->G5 transition; as it gives strong and potentially useful coverage I would like to have it available without needing earlier games; plus it fits Colossoil's huge drill tail. Even if Colossoil's new pre-evolution will end up having a puny tail, consider how both Nidorans, Goomy and most relevantly Rhyhorn learn Iron Tail as an egg move while having no tail whatsoever.

Ancient Power (G4)
Aqua Tail
Block
Body Slam (level-up)
Bounce
Double-Edge (egg move)
Dive
Drill Run
Earth Power
Foul Play
Iron Tail
Knock Off
Mimic (new egg move)
Mud-Slap (G4)
Rollout (G4)
Snatch
Snore
Sucker Punch (G4) (egg move)
Superpower
- All of the G3 tutors are available elsewhere.
- Iron Tail and Snatch are old TMs.
- Drill Run is duplicated from the level-up movepool.
- Foul Play is learned by most Dark-types, including similar Pokémon like Tyranitar and Krookodile.
- Block, as noted by Deck Knight, is widely available to large Pokémon, including Krookodile and Wailord which I feel resemble Colossoil the most.

TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM12 Taunt
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM37 Sandstorm
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM58 Endure
TM59 Brutal Swing
TM63 Embargo
TM66 Payback
TM67 Smart Strike
TM68 Giga Impact
TM71 Stone Edge
TM78 Bulldoze
TM80 Rock Slide
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM95 Snarl
TM97 Dark Pulse
TM100 Confide
- Round and Confide are universal; Bulldoze is implied by Earthquake.
- Rock Tomb, while an old move, is available to every single fully evolved Ground-type except Zygarde so it would be odd for Colossoil to lack it. It does provide speed control, but so does the required Bulldoze.
- Smart Strike is suggested by Colossoil's horn.
- Brutal Swing has a wide and somewhat random distribution; Colossoil sure appears brutal and sure has stuff to swing around (horn, tail, entire body).
- Snarl is widely available to Dark-types and fits Colossoil's menacing demeanor.
- The rest are old TMs which have changed number between generations.

Captivate (G4 TM78)
Dig (TM28)
Natural Gift (G4 TM83)
Retaliate (G5/6 TM67)
Rock Smash (G5/XY TM94 / ORAS HM06)
Secret Power (G4 TM43 / ORAS TM94)
Strength (HM04)
Retaliate is the only addition: it fits Colossoil's brutal nature and it has a wide distribution, including similar Pokémon like Krookodile and Tyranitar.
 
Last edited:

Deck Knight

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Final Submission

0 Rototiller
0 Bulldoze

0 Leer
0 Peck
Evolution: Drill Run
6 Horn Attack
11 Bite
17 Rapid Spin
22 Magnitude
29 Pursuit
35 Body Slam
41 Facade
45 Bounce

48 Stockpile
48 Swallow
48 Spit Up
55 Crunch
63 Megahorn
70 Horn Drill

Additions here include Rototiller which is a flavorful Ground move on any Pokemon with drilling capabilities, and Bulldoze at Level 0 because it appears to be Colossoil's method of locomotion. The Evolution move is Drill Run as Colossoil's movepool is spread out far enough to make it difficult to fit in otherwise. Magnitude is much earlier, Body Slam and Bounce are later, and Facade is added at Level 41 to emphasize Colossoil's concept of punishing secondary effects. Colossoil already gets the move through TM of course.

Assurance
Double-Edge
Encore
Fake Out
Fire Fang
Fissure
Flail
Horn Drill
Mimic
Sand Tomb
Screech
Sucker Punch
Thunder Fang

Colossoil is in the Water 2 / Field Egg group, and doesn't get many moves from Water 2 (Flail is about it). Assurance is learned by the Carvanha line, and doesn't compete with any of Colossoil's STABs. Mimic is added as an Egg move to maintain continuity.

Aqua Tail
Bounce
Block
Drill Run

Earth Power
Foul Play
Iron Tail
Knock Off
Snatch
Snore
Sucker Punch
Superpower

Additions here are Block, Drill Run and Foul Play.
Block - tends to be learned by large/heavy Pokemon. It was not included in Gen 4 largely because of Movepool Size Limits.
Drill Run - Colossoil has a Drill.
Foul Play - Dark types get this universally.

TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM12 Taunt
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM37 Sandstorm
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM58 Endure
TM59 Brutal Swing
TM63 Embargo
TM66 Payback
TM67 Smart Strike
TM68 Giga Impact
TM71 Stone Edge
TM78 Bulldoze
TM80 Rock Slide
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM95 Snarl
TM97 Dark Pulse
TM100 Confide

Additions here are Bulldoze, Brutal Swing, Confide, Rock Tomb, Round, Snarl, and Smart Strike.
Bulldoze - appears to be how Colossoil moves.
Brutal Swing - as a Pokemon with a long body and a brutal nature, Brutal Swing fits perfectly.
Confide - Universal TM
Rock Tomb - All Fully evolved ground types learn it.
Round - Universal TM
Snarl - Every mammalian Dark type learns it.
Smart Strike - Common among horned Pokemon.

Ancient Power (G4 Tutor)
Aqua Tail
Bounce
Captivate (G4 TM)
Dig (G6 TM)
Dive (G4 Tutor)
Earth Power
Incinerate (G5/6 TM)
Knock Off
Mud-Slap (G4 Tutor)
Natural Gift (G4 TM)
Retaliate (G5/6 TM)
Rock Smash (G5/6 TM/HM)
Rollout (G4 Tutor)
Secret Power (G5/6 TM)
Snatch (G4 TM)
Snore
Sucker Punch
Superpower

Additions here are Incinerate and Retaliate.
Incinerate - Every Pokemon that learns a Fire move of some sort tends to learn Incinerate, including Krookodile. It also makes sense as Colossoil is a Pokemon that would want to stop the secondary effects of berries.
Retaliate - A revenge-flavored move perfect for Colossoil.

Assurance (Egg)
Block (Past Gen Tutor)
Brutal Swing (TM)
Bulldoze (Level-Up / TM)
Confide (Universal TM)
Drill Run (Level-Up / Past Gen Tutor)
Foul Play (Past Gen Tutor)
Incinerate (Past Gen TM)
Retaliate (Past Gen TM)
Rock Tomb (TM)
Rototiller (Level-Up)
Round (Universal TM)
Smart Strike (TM)
Snarl (TM)
14 Moves Total
 

snake

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Since everyone's submission is out of WIP, consider this 24 hour warning until poll, just to be sure there aren't any last minute submissions.
 
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