CAP Updates: Necturna Discussion (Complete)

[HeaLnDeaL]

Necturna
Abilites: Forewarn / Telepathy
Stats: 64 HP / 120 Atk / 100 Def / 85 SpA / 120 SpD / 81 Spe
​

Sketch Artist

Description: A Pokemon that learns Sketch, once, and everything that goes along with that.

Justification:

In terms of uniqueness, I think that few existing Pokemon can match DPP Smeargle, an otherwise laughably worthless Pokemon trolling OU with access to every trick in the book (or at least 4 of them) but also affecting the metagame greatly by becoming a top threat in the lead metagame. This Pokemon will borrow some of that uniqueness by learning the move Sketch and thus having access to ONE surprise/strategic/gutshot bonus move to supplement its pre-existing movepool. Being otherwise competently built (read: usable stats), this Poke could be a top threat or specialist for reasons we can't even predict yet.

Questions To Be Answered:

• How will a Poke that has access to any one move out of all the moves in the game affect common battling tactics, namely prediction, scouting, and switching?
• Which Sketch moves will become most common on this Poke's best sets? Does Sketchmon's success rely on hiding that secret Sketch move until just the right moment or can it succeed with predictably powerful moves like Spore, Spikes, Hurricane, Shell Smash, etc.?
• Does this unique and powerful access to moves need to be counterbalanced elsewhere in the Pokemon's design? If so, then to what degree?
• What kind of impact can Sketchmon have on teambuilding in terms of being able to patch holes with common utility moves like Rapid Spin or Toxic Spikes?

Explanation: The key here is that we have a lot of freedom to construct a unique Pokemon while staying within the confines of the concept. Typing, stats, abilities, and even most of the movepool are completely fair game so long as the Poke learns Sketch only once along the way and that we keep that in mind during previous steps. Now, this doesn't mean the CAP process will be directionless; Rising Dusk is pretty well organized and good at keeping discussions focused, and the concept itself has firm grounding in Smeargle's precedent. What's really being studied with this concept is movepool diversity and effectiveness, so it should have the most effect on the movepool process, where movepool creators will have to carefully balance their Sketchmon's actual movepool with the possibility of adding any one other move to the list. In terms of the metagame, there is no doubt in my mind that throwing a wildcard like this into the mix will strongly affect the metagame.

Level-Up

0 Thunder Fang
0 Poison Fang
0 Super Fang
0 Leer
0 Vine Whip
7 Ominous Wind
13 Shadow Sneak
19 Toxic Spikes
19 Will-O-Wisp
25 Hex
31 Horn Leech
40 Pain Split
50 Shadow Ball
60 Power Whip

Egg

Egg Groups: Plant / Ground
Curse
Giga Drain
Gravity
Future Sight
Ingrain
Leaf Blade
Leaf Storm
Natural Gift
Nightmare
Sketch

TM/HM

TM04 Calm Mind
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM19 Telekinesis
TM21 Frustration
TM22 SolarBeam
TM27 Return
TM29 Psychic
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM32 Double Team
TM41 Torment
TM42 Façade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM53 Energy Ball
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM65 Shadow Claw
TM66 Payback
TM68 Giga Impact
TM70 Flash
TM71 Stone Edge
TM77 Psych Up
TM85 Dream Eater
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM90 Substitute
HM01 Cut

Necturna was created in the 5th generation and was given a Hidden Ability at the time of its creation. Since this is a Consistency Update, I am choosing to completely skip past Ability Discussion and jump straight to moves. This decision itself is perfectly in align with Deck's conclusion to the updates PRC thread in which he lists consistency updates only consisting on moves and lasting approximately 3 days (some other gen 5 consistency mons are not skipping the HA stage because they were never given HAs when they should have; Necturna already has one though so we can skip that stage here). I might go a bit over 3 days here in this thread, but I aim to completely finish Necturna in well under a week. I am stepping in as a UL to help updates move faster.

Necturna is interesting insofar as its access to sketch has let it update itself throughout the new gens, as sketch automatically allowed it to learn things such as Dragon Ascent and Geomancy (at the cost of its one sketch slot). Necturna, as per its concept, will only get 1 sketch move per set. Even though the newer gen mechanics introduced relearning of egg moves, Necturna will not in any way be able to learn more than one sketched move. Discussion of updating Necturna to allow it to learn more than 1 sketch move is totally and absolutely banned. Instead, I want us to discuss which consistency moves should be given to Necturna.


So, discussion will immediately open up to moves. For every consistency move suggested, I want people to argue 1) why it is flavorful / consistent with Necturna's design and/or concept and 2) how it won't have drastic competitive influences. I will admit that it is hard to define what counts as too big of a competitive influence, but since Necturna was voted in as consistency, we should not be giving it any moves that drastically alter its competitively viability.

If, and only if, a large number of consistency moves are backed by the intelligent community consensus, then I will open movepool submissions to allow people to place the the new moves into Necturna's movepool in a flavorful way. If there's only a handful of moves supported, then we will collectively decide where the moves will fit into Necturna's movepool (after all, it makes no sense to poll a bunch of complete movepools with only incredibly minute differences).

So, let's get started at full gear. This thread will not be open long, so if you have something to say, please make sure you say it soon.

I'd also like for us to focus on new moves, new TMs, and new Tutor moves from gen6/7.

 

[SunshineFuture]

To start off, Forest's Curse is a nice move, albeit a signature one. However, Necturna shares the exact same type combination with the sole learner, Trevenant. Also, the fact that Necturna already gets Hex without sketch hits it home. Trevenant also never runs it, so I think it would be safe competitively.

 

[emma]

Petal Blizzard, Grassy Terrain, Leafage, and Phantom Force are the four Grass or Ghost moves introduced since Necturna's creation, excluding signature moves. Leafage is a very rare move, and I would consider it a signature move so I would not want to include it. Phantom Force seems good, as Necturna is a ghost and I could see it disappearing and reappearing to strike the opponent. I also thinks this goes along with the "surprise factor" that the Sketch Factor brings. However, this might be a bit too competitive for a consistency update as it is 90 BP and breaks protect, despite being a 2-turn move. I would still personally run Shadow Claw or Shadow Sneak so this is up in the air. I think Petal Blizzard is a good move, worse than Leaf Blade, but I'm not sure if it lines up in flavor. Grassy Terrain I think fits, no real competitive use and Necturna seems like a Pokemon to be able to turn the ground into grass, especially with its Ghost abilities.

Grass / Ghost Moves from BW2 / ORAS Tutors
Seed Bomb - Yes, Fits flavor requirements as it seems very likely that Nectura can throw out seeds, strictly worse than Leaf Blade
Synthesis - No, too competitive since it gives it reliable recovery
Giga Drain - Yes, Fits flavor requirements as Necturna could definitely suck out energy since it is a Ghost, not too competitive since Energy Ball is still stronger and most run physical sets
Worry Seed - Yes, same flavor reasoning as Seed Bomb
Spite - Yes, Fits flavor requirements as its a Ghost

Giga Drain / Seed Bomb / Synthesis all overlap in ORAS, only Giga Drain and Seed Bomb should be added.

Grassy Terrain, Seed Bomb, Giga Drain, Worry Seed, Spite

EDIT: Necturna already learns Giga Drain, my b

 

[Mova]

I support Seed Bomb, Worry Seed, Spite, and possibly Grassy Terrain. Necturna might not find terrain useful, but she looks like she could create grass directly from the ground, considering that she's a ghostie. Forest's Curse may have poor distribution as a signature move, but Necturna has an identical typing to Trevenant. Not that the order matters much.

 

[emma]

To start off, Forest's Curse is a nice move, albeit a signature one. However, Necturna shares the exact same type combination with the sole learner, Trevenant. Also, the fact that Necturna already gets Hex without sketch hits it home. Trevenant also never runs it, so I think it would be safe competitively.

I support Seed Bomb, Giga Drain, Worry Seed, Spite, and possibly Grassy Terrain. Necturna might not find terrain useful, but she looks like she could create grass directly from the ground, considering that she's a ghostie. Forest's Curse may have poor distribution as a signature move, but Necturna has an identical typing to Trevenant. Not that the order matters much.

Forest's Cure, while fitting, is the signature move of Trevenant and I personally don't believe we should give these types of moves to CAP Pokemon. Futhermore, Forest's Cure's Z-Effect is +1 to all stats so that might be too competitive for a consistently update.

 

[Mx]

From Gen VI/VII the only moves I feel that should be added are Petal Blizzard, Grassy Terrain, Infestation and Draining Kiss.

Seed Bomb, Magic Coat, Foul Play, Magic/Wonder Room, Uproar, Spite, Worry Seed, Covet, Snatch are Tutors Moves, don't have competitive use (Except maybe Magic Coat, but even then it's just a very niche in something like a Sticky Web lead) and in my opinion also fit with Necturna.

The two tutors that I find quite controversial are Synthesis and Trick. I think Synthesis would be a terrible idea, giving reliable recovery to something as versatile as Nect could backfire horribly. However, while Trick could be used in Choiced sets, Almost all Ghost-type learns it, and those sets aren't that powerful now, so I think this is similar to Volt Switch with Krillowat, this is a Consistency updated but I don't think moves should be blacklisted just because it has some competitive merit.

 

[jas61292]

Forest's Cure, while fitting, is the signature move of Trevenant and I personally don't believe we should give these types of moves to CAP Pokemon. Futhermore, Forest's Cure's Z-Effect is +1 to all stats so that might be too competitive for a consistently update.

I have not taken a good look at all the moves yet, but I just wanted to chime in to say that I think this is definitely something we want to avoid. One thing that came up during the Necturna process was how we wanted to make it choose between a super strong offensive move or super strong boosting move for its sketch slot. That's why it has both limited natural coverage and doesn't get any very good boosting moves, with Calm Mind being the best one (which boosts its far less impressive SpA). Forest's Curse with a Z-Crystal would allow Necturna to have both a fantastic boosting move AND whatever strong coverage move it wants. And that is not something I think we should be allowing.

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

For the moves so far, I agree with Grassy Terrain,Worry Seed,Seed Bomb,Spite,Snatch,and Covet. I'm not sold on Foul Play because of possible implications in the competitive metagame. Forest's Curse, although really nice flavor, should be avoided because if Kerfluffle can use Z-Hold Hands well enough, Necturna should be able to use Z-Forest's Curse with similar effect. The only other move that comes to mind is Power Trip, but that could become incredibly dangerous very quickly, so Id rather avoid that.

 

[Delta Nite]

I just want to point out that a way to legally keep Necturna only able to learn Sketch once is keeping it as a transfer exclusive egg move, removing it from gen 6 on. That would make Sketch illegible with new egg moves however. Not sure if there's precedent to a mon losing an egg move though.

 

[snake]

I just want to point out that a way to legally keep Necturna only able to learn Sketch once is keeping it as a transfer exclusive egg move, removing it from gen 6 on. That would make Sketch illegible with new egg moves however. Not sure if there's precedent to a mon losing an egg move though.

I believe the CAP Metagame has Necturna Clause, which causes Necturna from having access to more than one Sketch move.

 

[G-Luke]

Some moves include Grassy Terrain, Seed Bomb, Spite, Grudge, Phantom Force, Snatch, Trick, Worry Seed and Magic Coat. These to me should definately end up on Necturna.

Some of the more controversial moves.

Foul Play - I personally do not see any implications in the learning of this move, but people will be people.

Leech Life - While flavourwise Leech Life makes incredible sense, I'm not sure if the leaders might approve of its addition due to competitive implications.

Infestation - See Leech Life

Some undiscussed moves that warrant discussion.

Aromatic Mist
Taunt
Aromatherapy
Leech Seed

I think its weird that so much moves that are required on Grass types (Aromatherapy, Leech Seed) are not on Necturna.

 

[TerrickTerran]

There are several grass types that don't learn leech seed and even more that do not learn aromatherapy (Bellossom for instance learns neither)

 

[Deck Knight]

Necturna's process was the most interesting because every move selection had to consider the implications of combination with any other single move. When I look at Gen VII Strategies and the kind of things that would make sense for Necturna without being overpowered, and became more accessible after its introduction in Gen V, some things that stand out are Nature Power (Gen VI TM) and Grassy Terrain (Introduced Gen 6). Especially with the Tapus, Nature Power would allow Necturna to use Sketch to set a Terrain and then have Nature Power use that Terrain. Necturna's Special Attack is the lower of its stats, but with Nature Power and a Tapu it could use Tail Glow or Shell Smash, which would be an interesting way to keep exploring Sketch.

One move that was discussed but not included on my own final movepool was Night Shade, which could work with several of the new "Protect Plus" Sketch moves like King's Shield, Spiky Shield, Baneful Bunker, etc.

Phantom Force is interesting because of its Z-Move applications. It allows Necturna to have either a strong boosting move before Never-Ending Nightmare or a strong coverage move with it. I generally don't see an issue with it, however others may disagree.

Universal moves are Confide, Round, Sleep Talk, and Snore.

For flavor moves, Flower Shield , Seed Bomb (tutor), Worry Seed (tutor), and Spite (tutor) work. Spite's Z-Effect is 100% healing, but a one time healing is not that unbalanced at the cost of your item slot.

 

[G-Luke]

How about Grudge? Its an interesting Ghost type move that seems to fit Necturna well

 

[snake]

I've seen mentions of Taunt and reliable recovery like Leech Seed and Synthesis. I'm partial to allow one of them, but not both. This is the reason why:

Assuming Synthesis, Leech Seed, and Taunt are added:

Necturna (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Forewarn
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe or 252 HP / 168 Atk / 88 Spe
Impish / Adamant Nature
- Spirit Shackle
- Synthesis / Leech Seed
- Taunt
- Toxic

Man as much as I'd love this set I know it's not healthy at all. 88 Speed is just enough to outspeed Tapu Fini if you're able to trap it. While you may think "oh you just switch out and lol trap the switch in," this set can just wear down the opposing team with Spirit Shackle damage and Toxic damage (Leech Seed too if that's chosen) until Nect can actually trap things it wants to trap, Taunt out their recovery, and just win matches. Really messes up defensive teams, though Skarmory, Mega Sableye, and Chansey seem like they can survive the set, but it still looks like a pain to fight against.

This set isn't nearly as effective with only one recovery and Taunt (I doubt Horn Leech cuts it), so as long as we avoid both at the same time we should be good.

-------

Phantom Force would be a neat move to see on Necturna. Unlike Revenankh, I think its a fine addition given that Necturna doesn't have access to +3 priority Drain Punch .-. While Nect could sketch a Fighting-type move, I suspect Phantom Force will make its way onto set up sweeping sets with Z-Phantom Force or more defensive sets where it'd appreciate sketching Leech Seed for reliable recovery.

 

[Wenderz]

Snake, such a Set could be avoided if we choose to add either Taunt and Synthesis/Leech Seed instead of both of them. So far, I don't see too much problem with any of the previous suggestions except Forest Curse unfortunately, but I would like to hear your opinion on Destiny bond which is learnt by the majority of Ghost Type. However, it could have some competittive implication, especially on the Sticky Web Set which you wouldn't mind to much to sacrifice once you stack your web and occasionnaly burn or damage a target.

 

[G-Luke]

I'd rather Taunt + Leech Seed than Synthesis, as Necturna really is shaky with reliable recovery.

 

[Martin890]

Leech Seed
Leech Life
Phantom Force
Seed Bomb
Flower Shield

These are mostly the moves that I can see being possibly added on Necturna without going to crazy. I left out Synthesis since it's actually a really good form of recovery, even better if the Sun is up so a big no to that, Leech Seed I'm quite in the gray area, similarly to Leech Life altough Bug isn't really the best type offensively (and Necturna already hit Psychic types super effectively, but this does free its requirement for a Dark response, which it could then free it for something else....... Sketch is such a crazy move) .

 

[Okamu]

I'd just like to throw in my two cents on Flower Shield, because I really don't like this as a flavor move. Look at the mons that get Flower Shield: Sunflora, Florges, Cherubi, Cherrim, and Comfey. Excluding Cherubi, who's a preevo, all of the other pokemon in that list have a very strong association with flowers, usually being comprised of actual flowers in their bodies to be exact. Meanwhile, look at Necturna. Besides being a grass type, it shows no strong relation to flowers at all. I checked back through the process archives to get a grip on its flavor, and found out it was based on a shrine maiden and carnivorous plants. While yes, many carnivorous plants are in fact flowers, they aren't the type of flowers one would imagine being part of a defensive move. Add onto that the lack of a strong flower motif in the actual design of Necturna, and I'm not sure where the inspiration behind it getting this move really came from. If someone could elaborate a bit more, that would be nice, but I personally don't see the connection at all.

 

[snake]

Snake, such a Set could be avoided if we choose to add either Taunt and Synthesis/Leech Seed instead of both of them. So far, I don't see too much problem with any of the previous suggestions except Forest Curse unfortunately, but I would like to hear your opinion on Destiny bond which is learnt by the majority of Ghost Type. However, it could have some competitive implication, especially on the Sticky Web Set which you wouldn't mind to much to sacrifice once you stack your web and occasionnaly burn or damage a target.

I noted that the set could be avoided twice in my post, once at the beginning and once at the end .-.

Currently webs runs Power Whip / Toxic or WoW / Sticky Web / filler, filler being Shadow Sneak, Protect, or something else. While Shadow Sneak is useful, Dbond would be more useful in that last slot. Idk if that's something we want. You generally don't want to sack of Necturna because spinners and defoggers.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

I'd like us to very quickly discuss the pros and cons of the moves Taunt, Destiny Bond, Synthesis, and Leech Seed as these seem to be the most controversial moves brought up. I don't think just because most of these are now tutor moves that we should ignore their competitive impacts.

Some of the discussion so far has focused on how these moves can potentially interact with one another, which is a good thing to consider. But how do these moves act independently is something we need to discuss as well. Do we want Necturna to have the ability to Taunt? How much do these moves change Necturna competitively?

 

[snake]

I'd like us to very quickly discuss the pros and cons of the moves Taunt, Destiny Bond, Synthesis, and Leech Seed as these seem to be the most controversial moves brought up. I believe all of them have been tutor moves since Necturna's creation but they were still moves that existed before Necturna was made.

Some of the discussion so far has focused on how these moves can potentially interact with one another, which is a good thing to consider. But how do these moves act independently is something we need to discuss as well. Do we want Necturna to have the ability to Taunt? How much do these moves change Necturna competitively?

Taunt lets Necturna stallbreak, but it cannot achieve this consistently well without reliable recovery. Horn Leech is generally given up in favor of the more immediate power of Power Whip. One thing of note is that with Taunt, Necturna can reliably stop any form of hazard removal, provided it can outspeed and Taunt.

Destiny Bond could find its way onto offensive boosting sets, as it forces Colossoil and other Sucker Punch users to play around it. Honestly, Destiny Bond would be a neat surprise move as an actual Sketch move, so I'd rather leave it off of Nect's movepool.

These two moves, to me, shouldn't make it onto Necturna. They change the way Necturna plays by adding new roles, which isn't what we want from this update imo.

----

Recovery options fundamentally improve what sets Necturna runs already, allowing it to retain the same roles, just better.

Synthesis enables Necturna to actually run defensive sets and can improve Life Orb sets. Below are sets I think we'd see, and note that they don't differ much from the sets Necturna already runs.

Synthesis Only

Necturna (F) @ Leftovers / Colbur Berry
Ability: Forewarn
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe
Impish Nature
- Power Whip / Shadow Claw
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
- Defog / Rapid Spin / Sticky Web / other Sketch move
- Synthesis

EVs can be changed, but I just picked up the spread I made for the set earlier in the thread. Synthesis enables a defensive utility set, before it was really just a bad tank set. Reliable recovery allows Necturna to be able to consistently use Defog or Rapid Spin throughout the match.

Necturna (F) @ Life Orb / Ghostium Z / (Not Grass or Ghost)ium Z
Ability: Forewarn
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power Whip
- Shadow Sneak / Shadow Claw
- V-create / Precipice Blades / Dragon Ascent / Bolt Strike / Icicle Crash / other Sketch Move
- Synthesis

You can invest speed into HP if you want but I assumed max speed. While it's less tanky, at least Necturna has a way to recover health on predicted switches and such.

Leech Seed is similar to Necturna in that it provides it with recovery. It's slower to recover HP, but it chips down the opponent. Building off of my last post with the Spirit Shackle set, I could see this set being quite effective.

Leech Seed Only

Necturna (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Forewarn
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe or 252 HP / 168 Atk / 88 Spe
Impish / Adamant Nature
- Spirit Shackle / Anchor Shot
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Toxic

This isn't nearly as bad as a set with Taunt, but Leech Seed + Toxic + trapping puts pressure on defensive teams. Again, not all defensive Pokemon fall to this set: Ferrothorn can't be chipped down, Skarmory uses Brave Bird, Chansey can't even be trapped if running Spirit Shackle, Toxapex cannot be poisoned, etc.

----

Now, there are some combinations I'm wary of on Necturna:

Leech Seed + Phantom Force

Necturna (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Forewarn
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe or 252 HP / 168 Atk / 88 Spe
Impish / Adamant Nature
- Leech Seed
- Phantom Force
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
- Power Whip / Protect

Just going to be straight up, this set looks really dumb to fight against. Provided you don't miss a Leech Seed, Necturna can just sit there and recover, and even attack at the same time while stalling.

Taunt + Leech Seed / Synthesis

Necturna (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Forewarn
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe or 252 HP / 168 Atk / 88 Spe
Impish / Adamant Nature
- Spirit Shackle / Anchor Shot
- Synthesis / Leech Seed
- Taunt
- Toxic

I've already posted about this but I felt like I needed to include it again when making this list. I cannot stress this enough that Taunt + recovery, even Leech Seed, is dangerous because of reliably accurate and strong trapping moves.

----

Right now, I'll support Phantom Force and Synthesis because they promote what Necturna does already without enabling scary stallbreaker sets. Leech Seed has my support too, but its interaction with Phantom Force concerns me. Taunt and Destiny Bond don't directly improve what Necturna already does and carve new niches for Necturna that imo it should not have.

As for other moves, I can't see Leech Life being any more useful than Horn Leech and Ghost-type STAB being put together, and while Night Shade is cool, Necturna usually likes to run Power Whip to eat Colossoil.

 

[G-Luke]

I can get behind Phantom Force and Leech Seed quite fine, but Synthesis seems sketchy to me, as I don't think it should be able to grab instant recovery. Taunt also seems sketchy (it should only learn them via Sketch!) as what snake said about shaking up matchups.

To me however, Destiny Bond to me is move that could fit on Nect without too much competitive impact. Sure, its useful, but I don't think it shakes up matchups the way Taunt does. Maybe if this was Gen VI, I'd be anti bond, but after Destiny Bond's nerf in Gen VII, I believe its more than managable on Necturna now.

 

[Mx]

Here's my opinion on some moves:

-Leech Seed: This is a interesting move, as it provides Necturna a new niche, without being too overwhelming, However I just don't see why it's necessary to add this.
-Synthesis: I already said it, I think this is a terrible idea, while Necturna is not the most powerful CAP, it is one of the most dangerous ones to update, as it has practically infinite options thanks to Sketch and any "wrong" addition could create a new powerful set, and Synthesis does just that, allowing bulky boosting sets like Bulk Up, Quiver Dance or Calm Mind, trapping sets like what snake_rattler posted, and probably some more options we are still not seeing.
-Destiny Bond: I don't think this will be that useful, so it go either way
-Phantom Force: Even with a Z-Crystal, I believe it's mostly outclassed by Shadow Claw, most of the Pokemon that use moves like Fly or Bounce only do so because they don't posses any other move of that type, so I don't think this will be used, even if it achieves some KOs that Shadow Claw does not.
-Leech Life: It's completely outclassed by Horn Leech, the only target on which this stronger than Horn Leech and Shadow Claw its Tangrowth, and that's just not enough to justify using it, so this should be added because of flavor.
-Trick: I strongly support this move, as it should be added as a tutor move, and almost all Ghost-types get access to it. While it has its uses, it's limited to Choiced sets, so it's not nearly as versatile as Synthesis, and those sets are just ok right now, and this will just be a small boost, that's I think it's still within what a consistency update should do.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Alright, I'm banning Forest's Curse, Trick-or-Treat, and Synthesis as I believe the icc is against these moves. I'm very iffy on Taunt, Trick, and Leech Seed personally and I'll tentatively allow them but discussion on them is still very much encouraged. With that said, a large number of consistency moves have been discussed and so I am now opening up full movepool submissions. Necturna's gen5 movepool can be found in the OP of this thread and on Necturna's page in the capdex.

Required moves are Confide and Secret Power, as they are/were universal TMs and I think Necturna already learns all of the others (though she gets Sleep Talk and Snore as egg moves, Sleep Talk is now a universal TM move and Snore was a universal tutor move in gen6). Everything mentioned in this thread so far but not banned or required is "allowed" and may be included at the submitter's discretion. If more talk regarding certain moves, such as Taunt, Trick, and Leech Seed occurs, I may decide to ban more things later and I will tag anyone who included a newly banned move. If for some reason there becomes an intense debate on the inclusion of certain moves that cannot be solved in discussions here, then we will have a poll on whether or not to allow those moves, then have a brief period to let people readjust movepool subs as necessary, and then have the updated movepool poll.

Movepool Submissions will not be open very long, so consider this roughly your 48 hour warning. I might include a day of grace at the end, but we'll see. I will be reading all submissions carefully and will take action if some unforeseen problem comes up. Don't try to sneak crazy things like Flare Blitz or Strength Sap in.