CAP Updates: Pyroak Discussion (Complete)

[sparktrain]

Pyroak
Abilites: Rock Head / Battle Armor
Stats: 120 HP / 70 Atk / 105 Def / 95 SpA / 90 SpD / 60 Spe​

CAP 3, Pyroak, was created back in the DPP era. CAP concepts as we know them today hadn't yet been established; Pyroak's identity as a sturdy SubSeeder / utility mon was gradually established through several discussions, threads, and a playtesting period. Pyroak also happens to be the infamous poster child of an earlier CAP revision project, where it received a new and improved stat spread of 117 HP / 105 Atk / 102 Def / 80 SpA / 96 SpD / 70 Spe, Dragon Dance, a slew of physical coverage moves, and had Battle Armor replaced with Flash Fire. These updates flipped Pyroak's identity on its head and turned it into a devastating Dragon Dance sweeper. Pyroak 2.0 ended up being so good that the playerbase reached a consensus that it was broken as defined by the Uber characteristics of Smogon. Policy discussion ensued, and long story short, Pyroak was reverted to its good ol' self again.

In today's CAP metagame, Pyroak retains a solid niche as a utility mon. Pyroak is a surprisingly difficult Pokemon to take down thanks to its unique Fire/Grass typing coupled with its beefy 120/105/90 defensive stats. It can support the team with utility options such as Stealth Rock and Aromatherapy while keeping itself healthy with Synthesis. In terms of attacking moves, Pyroak is most commonly seen running one or two of Lava Plume, Giga Drain, and Earth Power. Newer users such as jas61292 enjoy running a set with Swords Dance, Flare Blitz, and Wood Hammer to take advantage of Rock Head, but this set is largely considered unviable by the rest of the community.

On that note, I'd like to start off this thread with an ability discussion. As a Pokemon designed back in Gen 4, Pyroak has no hidden ability, so there is a fair bit of precedent for it to gain a third ability from this update. At the moment, Pyroak effectively has one competitive ability, which is Battle Armor. Several CAP Pokemon have two competitive abilities, but several also only have one competitive ability. Seeing as Pyroak was voted by the community to be a consistency update, we won't be trying to give Pyroak any significant buffs in the ability department, but I won't rule out a second competitive ability entirely just yet. That's up for you all to discuss!

Here are some guiding questions:

• Should Pyroak receive a competitive ability or a non-competitive ability from this update?
• If you believe Pyroak should receive an additional competitive ability, how would it benefit the CAP metagame?

Feel free to talk about specific abilities as well, but I'd like to get our direction (competitive ability, non-competitive ability, no ability) figured out first so we don't have a mix of competitive abilities and flavor abilities on the final slate. Keep in mind that anything that grossly overshadows Battle Armor isn't gonna fly. Have at it, folks!

 

[Garbagery]

I feel like it's good enough as it is. It's already a solid mon, checks a bunch of the meta and has an op sd set. So I vote a non-competetive ability.

I can suggest overcoat and shell armor for flavour reasons, and they don't do crap for it anyway.

 

[Mova]

yee

But seriously, Pyroak could work without an extra competitive Ability, as a bulky tank or wall like him appreciates the technical immunity to critical hits. Whatever we do, could we work our hardest to avoid improving the Swords Dance set if possible?

Anyway, Magma Armor fits Pyroak's literal armor, and we're updating a bulky Fire-type. Freeze is very situational anyway, so it's mostly useless. There's little else to say about the matter.

 

[jas61292]

Pyroak should not be getting any competitive ability because it doesn't need any buff. It is a very good Pokemon, even with what is a very limited ability currently. While I would have no problem with it getting a flavor ability, we would have to be really restrained, because not a lot of abilities are less competitive than Battle Armor. But if we can find something, lets go that way. But lets absolutely not give it anything it would think of using.

 

[SunshineFuture]

• Should Pyroak receive a competitive ability or a non-competitive ability from this update?

Yes. Usually, CAPs get two decent abilities to use. Currently, Pyroak only has Battle Armor. Thusly, a niche (but still good) ability is in order.

In terms of which ability to give, Grass Pelt is my choice. For those who don't know, it increases defense by 50% in Grassy Terrain. It may sound broken, but hear me out. First of all, it essentially requires Tapu Bulu to be used. This restricts what teams you can build, as you have a serious Poison weakness unless you're crazy enough to use the actual move. Another thing is that the most common Rock types (the most common type in CAP between it, Poison and Flying), Strat and Cruci, deal with Pyroak pretty well. Also, AV is not a viable option on this set either, as it needs recovery to last. Finally, Grassy Terrain only lasts so long, and Bulu does not usually run Terrain Extender. This means that the defense boost isn't permanent and the foe can just stall out the terrain or kill Bulu ASAP. Without Grassy Terrain, it essentially has no ability. Also, keep in mind this leaves Tapu Bulu open to a critical hit, so that is always possible. Battle Armor outclasses Grass Pelt because it is a lot easier to build a team around it and is immune to critical hits AT ALL TIMES, rather than only in Terrain or something. If Grass Pelt isn't an option, either Flash Fire or (on the flavor side) Magma Armor are my next choices.

252 SpA Life Orb Stratagem Paleo Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Pyroak: 374-439 (84.4 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

252 Atk Crucibelle-Mega Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Grass Pelt Pyroak: 236-278 (53.2 - 62.7%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

 

[Quanyails]

Pyroak does not need a better competitive ability when it performs its current role in the metagame very well. Pyroak has a consistency update, and giving it an extra immunity or niche through a new ability completely goes against the point of the update.

Overcoat is the only ability I've considered as an additional ability, since Pyroak's Grass typing makes it immune to most powders already, and ignoring weather damage is situational. Even then, I'd err on the side of caution.

 

[sparktrain]

Quanyails is correct, Flash Fire (and any immunity ability, really) would be a direct upgrade over Battle Armor, so let's table that discussion. Keep in mind that Battle Armor isn't a terribly powerful ability to begin with, so the usefulness of an additional competitive ability needs to be scaled back appropriately.

 

[Yoshiblaze]

I agree with jas, Pyroak is already good enough with it's stats, typing, and movepool that a competitive is unnecessary.

With that in mind, here are a couple ideas:

- Magma Armor makes sense since it's a Fire-type and has very prominent armor, including already having Battle Armor. Similarly, Leaf Guard can work, too, but fits with it's other type instead.
- Aftermath, do to cannons being related to gunpowder, which explodes, and Aftermath is an explosion after knocking out something explosive out. This might be a little too good, though.
- While cannons don't have to be completely on target to be effective, Sniper, Keen Eye, and Inner Focus all fit with Pyroak's ability to shoot things. Skill Link fits, too, but it might lure new players into using Bullet Seed on an even worse Swords Dance set

 

[Exclaimer]

'Newer users such as @jas61292enjoy running a set with Swords Dance, Flare Blitz, and Wood Hammer to take advantage of Rock Head, but this set is largely considered unviable by the rest of the community.'

brutal

I propose Magma Armor because of what Yoshi said above. It fits flavor wise because it's an actual Fire type with actual armor. Skill Link feels too good, since a 125 BAP stab is very powerful, even off of 70 attack.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Almost any ability we give Pyroak would have a chance to be a competitive upgrade. Grass Pelt lets Pyroak switch into banded Bulu's Stone Edge. Overcoat makes Pyroak more attractive to use on Hail or Sand teams (not a huge effect, but it will be useful for said team archetypes and would compete with battle armor a fair amount otherwise to counter said teams). Aftermath's effect is pretty decent, I shouldn't have to say why it's too good.

I think I could support Keen Eye since its effect is pretty much useless. Leaf Guard might prevent Pyroak from being poisoned in the sun, but this is a rather minor effect and I don't see it outshining Battle Armor either.

Though I wouldn't hate Keen Eye or Leaf Guard, I just don't see the need for a new hidden ability.

 

[BP]

Yea I'm going to just get off the Flavor Train and say no competitive ability. Pyroak is already great and it does not need an update. HeaLnDeaL and I had more of a Half Assed discussion on why it shouldn't get a hidden ability. I ended up siding with HeaL on the side that Pyroak does not need any Hidden Ability. I believe we should take a more conservative stance and wait to Update Pyroak's Abilities until it actually needs it. It may be Viable now but that doesn't mean it will next Generation or the Generation after that.

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

I like what jas has to say about Pyroak, despite the sick burn that he experienced. It doesn't need a competitive ability, but would appreciate a flavor ability. We have to be careful about giving Pyroak a flavor ability, though, cause it could upgrade Pyroak's not too amazing ability movepool. Don't get me wrong, Battle Armor is one of those abilities that is helpful without noticing, but it can be over shadowed very easily by other abilities. Here are my opinions on stuff.

Magma Armor, while having little competitive effect on Pyroak, actually does not fit flavorly. The three pokemon that get this ability are linked heavily to magma in their core design, and Pyroak does not have that same correlation.
Grass Pelt makes some flavor, but its possible implications could be concerning. 50% is alot, so if we give it this we gotta make sure we don't give it Grassy Terrain.
Overcoat is fine in most regards, but it is a common suggestion for flavor abilities, so it seems like a cop-out. Plus removing sand damage could be problematic in the future.
Nothing else stands out to me, or just rubs me the wrong way. I would like to suggest Healer however. Its completely useless in Singles, and CAP Doubles is not an official thing. However, it does emphasize Pyroak's role as protector of the forest, and its defensive stats support this idea of protection. Think of it like Swamp Thing from Injustice 2. And actually, fire is healthy for forests, as pinecones actually trigger when exposed to extremely high temperatures. I think this makes sense.

 

[Exclaimer]

I really don't see the reasoning behind "Oh, it can't outcompete Battle Armor or it'll be a buff!". Yeah, it would be a buff, but it's insignificant in a vast majority of these cases. It will not affect Pyroak's viability in any meaningful way, save for maybe one or two very niche situations, which, if you think about it, isn't as valuable as "I never have to worry about being critical hit, no matter what I'm up against".

I'm going to insist that we give Pyroak a third, hidden ability because it would be consistent with every other Pokemon with two normal abilities; they always have a Hidden ability. There are Pokemon with only one ability, one normal and then a hidden, but never just two normal abilities. There are a multitude of abilities with extremely little competitive merit (Some even less merit than Battle Armor), and I think it would look bad on CAP as a whole if we failed to find one.

 

[SunshineFuture]

I really don't see the reasoning behind "Oh, it can't outcompete Battle Armor or it'll be a buff!". Yeah, it would be a buff, but it's insignificant in a vast majority of these cases. It will not affect Pyroak's viability in any meaningful way, save for maybe one or two very niche situations, which, if you think about it, isn't as valuable as "I never have to worry about being critical hit, no matter what I'm up against".

I'm going to insist that we give Pyroak a third, hidden ability because it would be consistent with every other Pokemon with two normal abilities; they always have a Hidden ability. There are Pokemon with only one ability, one normal and then a hidden, but never just two normal abilities. There are a multitude of abilities with extremely little competitive merit (Some even less merit than Battle Armor), and I think it would look bad on CAP as a whole if we failed to find one.

I completely agree. The debate between a competitive or flavor ability is certainly one to be had, but we need to certainly give it an ability. It would be completely pathetic if we couldn't find even a flavor one that fit onto Roak.

 

[Deck Knight]

People are vastly underselling the value of "bulky defensive/support Pokemon that never suffers a critical hit" as if Battle Armor is a low tier ability that near anything would supplant.

Unlike pretty much every other non-crit mon bar Mega Slowbro, Pyroak doesn't have a 4x weakness (Kabutops/Omastar), a low HP combined with a low defensive stat (Cloyster HP/SpD), and as a big bonus Pyroak has somewhat reliable recovery in Synthesis.

That said we shouldn't go overboard either. There are plenty of perfectly acceptable somewhat competitive abilities that would not overshadow Battle Armor.

Something the strength of Aroma Veil is probably just above or below the threshold for that, seeing as Taunt and Encore immunity would make Pyroak a much better support Pokemon.

But Leaf Guard, Inner Focus, Sturdy, Overcoat, Magma Armor, etc. don't rise to that level. Grass Pelt and Flame Body are fairly well over it though.

 

[snake]

• Should Pyroak receive a competitive ability or a non-competitive ability from this update?

Yes. Usually, CAPs get two decent abilities to use. Currently, Pyroak only has Battle Armor. Thusly, a niche (but still good) ability is in order.

In terms of which ability to give, Grass Pelt is my choice. For those who don't know, it increases defense by 50% in Grassy Terrain. It may sound broken, but hear me out. First of all, it essentially requires Tapu Bulu to be used. This restricts what teams you can build, as you have a serious Poison weakness unless you're crazy enough to use the actual move. Another thing is that the most common Rock types (the most common type in CAP between it, Poison and Flying), Strat and Cruci, deal with Pyroak pretty well. Also, AV is not a viable option on this set either, as it needs recovery to last. Finally, Grassy Terrain only lasts so long, and Bulu does not usually run Terrain Extender. This means that the defense boost isn't permanent and the foe can just stall out the terrain or kill Bulu ASAP. Without Grassy Terrain, it essentially has no ability. Also, keep in mind this leaves Tapu Bulu open to a critical hit, so that is always possible. Battle Armor outclasses Grass Pelt because it is a lot easier to build a team around it and is immune to critical hits AT ALL TIMES, rather than only in Terrain or something. If Grass Pelt isn't an option, either Flash Fire or (on the flavor side) Magma Armor are my next choices.

252 SpA Life Orb Stratagem Paleo Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Pyroak: 374-439 (84.4 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

252 Atk Crucibelle-Mega Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Grass Pelt Pyroak: 236-278 (53.2 - 62.7%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

I'm a little concerned with how why want this ability. Why does Pyroak need this niche? Why are its walling capabilities so inferior that you think this ability is necessary?

As conditional as this ability is, I find that it unnecessarily changes match ups at not enough of a cost. The problem with simply giving Pyroak Grassy Pelt is that you aren't really giving up all that much with Battle Armor. While it's still useful, the tradeoff for tanking hits much better for 5 turns isn't great enough to be equal with Battle Armor, and you can't say that 4 to 5 turns isn't a long time in a match. It's enough time for Pyroak to burn key members of opposing team, force switches, set up rocks consistently, etc. Not to mention that Tapu Bulu isn't all that bad of a teammate for Pyroak. Sure, you stack weaknesses, but it appreciates Pyroak's ability to wall opposing Steel-types and set up Stealth Rock. It's also easy to cover up the Poison- and Flying-type weakness with a Steel-type. You also claim that Battle Armor is immune to critical hits all the time, which is true, but you have to remember that critical hits happen 1/16 of the time. You don't lose much by not running Battle Armor and running Grass Pelt, especially with how common Tapu Bulu can be, as a teammate and as a foe. It might not be A+ rank, but it's not a rare sighting either.

Pyroak can tank certain hits much better under Grassy Terrain.

Grassy Pelt vs. Battle Armor

252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Grass Pelt Pyroak: 318-374 (71.7 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Grass Pelt Pyroak in Grassy Terrain: 46-55 (10.3 - 12.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever

While Pyroak cannot switch into Swords Dance, you've effectively forced offensive Landorus-T (SD / Earthquake / Fly / SR or RP is most common) to be much more careful with its Z move and risk it taking a burn. After that, Pyroak can heal up because Earthquake doesn't do enough damage after Leftovers and Grassy Terrain healing, and Fly is a two-turn move.

252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Grass Pelt Pyroak: 168-198 (37.9 - 44.6%) -- 45.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 250-296 (56.4 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

Pyroak used to be a pretty reliable but shaky switch-in to Tapu Bulu. Now it's not because it will always be under Grassy Terrain when Tapu Bulu switches in.

252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Grass Pelt Pyroak: 181-214 (40.8 - 48.3%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 271-319 (61.1 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Pyroak cannot check Medicham-Mega under normal circumstances, unless it runs Iron Defense. However, with Grass Pelt, it forces Medicham-Mega out.

+2 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Grass Pelt Pyroak: 288-340 (65 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 432-508 (97.5 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Pyroak Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Marowak-Alola: 148-176 (56.7 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Tapu Bulu is extremely common on Trick Room teams. They struggle enough with Pyroak to begin with. It's completely unnecessary to change this match up.

Again, is Grassy Pelt very conditional? Yes, but it's apparently not conditional enough for it to be warranted for a competitive argument - Grassy Terrain can be controlled. Critical hits are inherently conditional as well, so I can definitely see Grassy Pelt being a secondary slash on every Pyroak set if it were to get it.

If Pyroak were to get Grassy Pelt, access to Grassy Terrain must be out of the question because then it can abuse its ability by itself.

tl;dr Grassy Pelt, while conditional, is able to be abused and changes up a few of Pyroak's matchups without much opportunity cost.


I haven't formed an opinion on what ability Pyroak should get, but I don't like Grassy Pelt.

 

[Wenderz]

I'm currently in favor of Leaf Guard as a safe ability, as I think even without something like Chlorophyll or Drought, Pyroak can have a small niche under Sunny Day since the power brought by this and the immunity to statues can make it a potential stallbreaker, even though such a Set would be on the same level than SD Pyroak due to it's flaws and 4MSS.

The MMetagross's ban is quite a bad new for Pyroak, and even though he's still a very good Wall, most things checking by him have often a way to lure him too ( Stone Edge Mawile, Brave Bird Tapu Koko, Stone Edge/Dragon Escent Necturna...), so I don't think we should be afraid of giving him a competitive ability, either on Offensive or Defensive Plan, but this one should not completely overshadow Battle Armor or Rock Head.

 

[Trox]

I don't think Pyroak should get any new ability.
Why do we need to force any new ability on a mon that does perfectly well the way it is now? Giving Pyroak a HA now would be "adding for the sake of adding", and it also takes us the option to give it an useful ability in a future update.
We don't know if Pyroak keeps its good place in the Meta in the future, so it wouldn't hurt to keep some options just in case.

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

I don't think Pyroak should get any new ability.
Why do we need to force any new ability on a mon that does perfectly well the way it is now? Giving Pyroak a HA now would be "adding for the sake of adding", and it also takes us the option to give it an useful ability in a future update.
We don't know if Pyroak keeps its good place in the Meta in the future, so it wouldn't hurt to keep some options just in case.

Because of the fact that every Pokemon with two normal abilities gets a hidden ability, we have to give it a hidden ability to remain flavorfully consistent. Its technically not adding for the sake of adding.

Anyways, people seem to not abilities that are too competitive, so here are some options that are pretty much useless.
Honey Gather has no in game effect, and I heard lizards like Honey. It can smoke out the bees too.
Pickup can only ever be used on a Cawmodore holding a Sitrus Berry, and when was the last time you saw a Cawmodore set up on a Pyroak? I'm seriously asking.
Flare Boost is semi flavorful, but seems completely useless. How do you burn a fire type? Soak. Obviously.
Illuminate is always an option if we are indecisive and not creative, as two Pokemon with Illuminate is obviously not enough.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Keen Eye - Pyroak is a dino, dinos are related to birbs, birbs have good eyes and many birbs have keen eye. Also, fits into the "shooter" theme with its cannons as guns.

Leaf Guard - Pyroak wears leaves that protect it in addition to its armor.

Honey Gather - Pyroak is a tree and maybe bees are attracted to its scent and occasionally give it honey.

Pick Up - Pyroak can pick YOU up.

Own Tempo - Pyroak does its own thing, dances the way it wants to dance. It might be "big boned" and not have a supermodel beach body, but still shows off by wearing that grass hula skirt.

Flare Boost - A fire type with guns would get a "flare boost" to add to its fire power.

Anger Point - it's a big red dino, looks like it'd get mad if you hit him too hard.

Big Pecks - Underneath its breast plate are enormous pecs. Related to birbs, and birbs peck.

White Smoke - Whoah man. No one ever tries to lower Pyroak's stats anyway, smoke comes from burning stuff, Pyroak burns stuff. "Dex Entry #1: The smoke from PYROAK's flames is said to have soothing qualities. However, it is also known to induce odd behaviour in Pokémon and humans alike."

Rivalry - "Dex Entry #3: PYROAK are known to engage in ceremonial duels banning use of their cannons. Their armour protects them from injuring themselves when charging one another."

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So umm yeah. Just some abilities I thought of that would all have less competitive implications than the previously mentioned Aroma Veil. I'm not sure which of the above are my favorite, but kinda just shooting around options at this point. I apologize if the list makes some of the comments read as snarky, but I think the flavor is at least arguable for the above abilities... some like Pick Up might be a stretch, but I'm just trying to share and see what people like.

EDIT: Added rivalry upon cbrevchan bringing it up in the chat.

 

[Take Azelfie]

Don't give Pyroak anything because he doesn't need to have anything. Magma Armor is armor made from magma and Pyroak doesn't have that or magma for that matter. The only two that seem okay with me would be Defeatist (reminds me of Archeops) and Keen Eye. Leaf guard pokemon usually have more leafage or a prominant leaf feature and well... Pyroak doesn't really have that.

Also White Smoke helps out versus stuff like Liquidation, Moonblast, just a lot of things. It is basically a downgraded Unaware but I stop find it more useful than Battle Armor because its an RNG shield for stuff like that.

 

[zarator]

I don't think Pyroak should get any new ability.
Why do we need to force any new ability on a mon that does perfectly well the way it is now? Giving Pyroak a HA now would be "adding for the sake of adding", and it also takes us the option to give it an useful ability in a future update.
We don't know if Pyroak keeps its good place in the Meta in the future, so it wouldn't hurt to keep some options just in case.

Just chiming in to say that, technically, giving it an ability now does not prevent us from giving it a different ability in the future. There is precedence for Pokemon changing their HA anyway (Chandelure, Pelipper, etc.)

 

[Deck Knight]

This is the first thread out of the six or so Gen 4 mons we've had complaints about selecting an HA.

Pyroak just ain't that hard to identity good flavor or nominally competitive abilities for. I'm sure sparktrain will come to a completely sensible list of Regenerator / Grass Pelt / Flame Body / Rough Skin / Serene Grace / Mega Launcher/ Tree-Age (Triage with a different spelling) and we'll all be better for it.

Until then, lets lighten up and stay focused, please.

 

[lydian]

I really like Anger Point, as HeaLnDeal suggested, because it keeps the theme of critical hits but is still completely useless, Rivalry is interesting as well, as Pyroak fits in with the group of Pokemon that get the ability. White Smoke receives my support as well, since it's quite situational but still fits with Pyroak. Leaf Guard and Sniper are also great options too. Analytic, Infiltrator, Natural Cure and No Guard might be interesting as well, but I'm afraid they have too much competitive merit. Finally, Unnerve might be a great option, I doubt it will outshine Battle Armor and it still fits with flavor.

 

[sparktrain]

Based on the discussion and ability suggestions so far, it seems as though we've reached a general agreement that Pyroak's hidden ability should be entirely or almost entirely based on flavor. Let's roll with that. Suggestions don't need to be entirely non-competitive; take a look at Deck's post if you'd like to get an idea of what is/isn't acceptable in terms of competitive scope.

Leaf Guard and Magma Armor have received a fair bit of discussion with generally mixed to positive feedback. Grass Pelt has received mostly negative feedback due to its competitive implications. Other than these, there have been many suggestions which have been mentioned once or twice with little to no discussion. Not everything can make the slate, so if you have support or dissent for any of the abilities mentioned in this thread, let us know why!

I'll let the thread run its course for another day and get the poll started sometime on Thursday.