CAP Updates: Stratagem Discussion (Complete)

Status
Not open for further replies.
sparktrain said:
- Rock Climb removed entirely due to being non-transferable and not fitting in the level up movepool.
Click to expand...

Wait, why would you remove it completely and not just add it to transfer only moves? It's not like that never happens, a lot of pokemon can only learn Defog from the Gen IV HM, but they are still allowed to use it.

EDIT: Sorry, you're right
 
Last edited:
mxmts said:
Wait, why would you remove it completely and not just add it to transfer only moves? It's not like that never happens, a lot of pokemon can only learn Defog from the Gen IV HM, but they are still allowed to use it.
Click to expand...
The HMs aren't transferable between Gen 4 and Gen 5, but Defog is transferable by trading the Pokemon to HGSS (where it isn't a HM) then transferring it. Rock Climb is HM08 in DPP and HGSS, so it can't be transferred, and it lost its HM status in Gen 5.
 
Final Submission

0 Quick Guard (Heart Scale)
0 Lazer Focus (Heart Scale)
0 Weather Ball
0 Tackle
0 Defense Curl
Evo Move: Paleo Wave
4 Rollout
8 Mud-Slap
13 Rock Blast
17 Disable
21 Accelerock
26 Accupressure
30 Ancient Power
34 Mud Shot
39 Power Gem
43 Double Edge
47 Earth Power
52 Metal Sound
56 Speed Swap
60 Vacuum Wave
65 Lock On
69 Head Smash

So this movepool is similar to the ones above, but with slight modifications to fit my creative flow. Contrary to snake_rattler's opinion, I firmly believe that Paleo Wave should only be on Stratagem, as it signifies that it has finally harnessed and mastered the powers of ancient times, as it attempted to do when it first learned Ancient Power. Besides, I believe Tech Ancient Power and Power Gem are enough for the pre evos. I did however, agree with the fact that Strategem's level up movepool doesn't look like one a special Rock type would have. I dropped Quick Guard and Lazer Focus as Heart Scale moves, as they fit with due to its high speed and pinpoint precision respectively. I added Mud-Slap, Ancient Power, Earth Power and Vacuum Wave from old tutors into its level up movepool as they fit quite nicely. Added Accelerock as it fits Strategem down to a T, and has very minor implications competitive-wise. Lock-On and Speed Swap fit in the same ways Lazer Focus and Quick Guard do, and they fit with its level up theme of a good mixture of attacking and Status moves. In general Strategem is known for a small level up pool, so I avoided overbloating it.
TM04 Calm Mind
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration
TM23 Smack Down
TM26 Earthquake
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM32 Double Team
TM35 Flamethrower
TM37 Sandstorm
TM38 Fire Blast
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM40 Aerial Ace
TM42 Façade
TM44 Rest
TM48 Round
TM53 Energy Ball
TM54 False Swipe
TM63 Embargo
TM64 Explosion
TM67 Smart Strike
TM68 Giga Impact
TM69 Rock Polish
TM71 Stone Edge
TM78 Bulldoze
TM80 Rock Slide
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM99 Dazzling Gleam
TM100 Confide

Firstly, Confide and Round are required. Bulldoze goes hand in hand with Earthquake. Smackdown is a great Rock type attack that fits well, and most Rock types learn it. Smart Strike has a ton of flavour if you look into it. Strategem has a ton of sickle shaped rocks which I'd assume are sharp, and a highly intelligent space rock not knowing Smart Strike? Criminal. Added Swagger as it is a universal TM. Dazzling Gleam, as snake said, is a neat and fitting move on Strat that has minimal competitive impact (It has stronger, better coverage options)
Earth Power
Giga Drain
Heat Wave
Snore
Stealth Rock
Trick
Zen Headbutt

Zen Headbutt makes sense seeing that Strat has access to Headbutt and Head Smash and its psychic like abilities. Stealth Rock and Giga Drian are old TMs.
Cut
Endure
Flash
Headbutt
Incinerate (Gen 5/6 TM)
Natural Gift
Ominous Wind
Rock Smash
Secret Power
Swift

Incinerate is learnt by everything that learns Fire Blast via TM, so it fits

Absorb, Mega Drain and Leech Life - Draining is not a feature of Strategem, and Giga Drain being present is only due to its interactions with Technician to gain very powerful coverage at the time of its creation.

Flash Cannon - While it has Dazzling Gleam, I felt Flash Cannon may have had more competitive implactions + Flash Cannon usually revolves around metallic sheen, with Gem notably lacks

Nature Power - It simply has to much shady interactions with Terrains, giving it strong coverage to types it never had before and Energy Ball, potentially screwing up matchups.
Additions

Quick Guard to level 0 (Heart Scale)
Lazer Focus to level 0 (Heart Scale)
Accelerock to level 21
Speed Swap to level 56
Lock On to level 65
Smackdown to TM List
Round to TM List
Smart Strike to TM List
Bulldoze to TM List
Swagger to TM List
Dazzling Gleam to TM List
Confide to TM List
Zen Headbutt to Tutors
Incinerate to Transfers

Changes in Movepool

Ancient Power to Level Up
Earth Power to Level Up
Vacuum Wave to Level Up
Mud-Slap to Level Up
Stealth Rock to Tutors
Giga Drain to Tutors
Endure, Flash, Headbutt, Natural Gift, Ominous Wind, Rock Smash, Secret Power, and Swift to Transfers

Rock Climb removed
 
Last edited:
To clarify on why I don't have Paleo Wave as Strata's evolve move, it's not that I think Rebble needs Paleo Wave. Rather, it's the fact that Paleo Wave would be restricted from Rebble's movepool entirely. Since this is one of our CAP signature moves, I don't feel like it was right to make such a decision here, unlike Circle Throw on Arghonaut, for example. If Paleo Wave shouldn't be on Rebble then so be it, but I'd rather have that take place in the Prevo workshop, not here.

EDIT: Moved on to Laser Focus too fast, forgot to mention that I might change Paleo Wave to the evolve slot because I definitely struggled to choose between PG and PW, but at the time of my WIP I decided to go for PG. Might change it though, that's why it's WIP

Also, given that Sniper won the HA poll, I'm hesitant on Laser Focus. When I made a supporting post for Sniper, I reasoned that it'd never be used over Levitate or Technician because Stratagem has no way of abusing critical hits, and Laser Focus provides that. Not that it'd be top tier, but I still don't like seeing the combination there.
 
Last edited:
Tbh the only thing that wewould need to be worried about is the dank memes it may create. Lazer Focus + Sniper isnt viable. Its like SD but much much worse. It has to use it every time just to benefit from it, it gives up vital coverage just to use it, its too frail to try and set up consistently and the oppurtunity cost of not running Technician lures or an immunity to its most common weakness is too high.

I see Lazer Focus on Strategem as Volt Switch on Krilowatt but much worse - bound to have a form of impact - but none on the larger scale of cometitive battling
 
G-Luke said:
Tbh the only thing that wewould need to be worried about is the dank memes it may create. Lazer Focus + Sniper isnt viable. Its like SD but much much worse. It has to use it every time just to benefit from it, it gives up vital coverage just to use it, its too frail to try and set up consistently and the oppurtunity cost of not running Technician lures or an immunity to its most common weakness is too high.

I see Lazer Focus on Strategem as Volt Switch on Krilowatt but much worse - bound to have a form of impact - but none on the larger scale of cometitive battling
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree with you there. Not vehemently opposing anything now (you'll know if I am, trust me :P) but it caught my eye. VS Kril will actually be good though, but this isn't the place for that
 
It's been over 24 hours, so this submission phase is now closed. Your slate will be:

snake_rattler
sparktrain
G-Luke

All three movepools were deemed different enough to be included on the slate. The poll will be posted shortly!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top