[Gen6] CAP Viability Ranking Thread V2

I stand corrected on your manaphy post but this is why I feel like Krill would work well in A-. Because he is strong and bulky and whilst he won't OHKO teams, he has the ability to soften up teams for another pokemon like RP M-Meta or SD Flame to come in and clean. He can offer, yet needs a little support both ways. He isn't worthy of A rank because of this, but what he does, he does it to A- standard.
 
I don't see why you need to go mixed for Colossoil of all things... the most specially bulky spread is 2hko'ed by Surf.

252 SpA Life Orb Krilowatt Surf vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Assault Vest Colossoil: 187-221 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO

With Stealth Rock/literally any prior damage, Colossoil dies. So while it's a ground type you can't switch on, it can't switch into you, so forgoing a moveslot just for Low Kick seems redundant when you threaten it decently. Its biggest problem is just that it's often hard-walled by something on the opposing team if they're defensively inclined, which is fairly common (Mega Venu, Chansey, and SpDef Jirachi come to mind), and that's why B+ is perfect for shrimpfriend.


Latios to A

I have no idea why nobody uses this. It threatens Tomohawk, Plasmanta, Mollux, Keldeo, Cyclohm, Unboosted Char-X, Mega Venu, just by being on your team, and Draco Meteor is still one of the best nukes in the game. Colossoil threatens it, sure, but then again, this is a thing.

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 176 SpD Assault Vest Colossoil: 239-283 (58.7 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 176 SpD Assault Vest Colossoil: 195-230 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO

So yes, it chunks the best special tank in the meta for half its health, and with Grass Knot (Very useful by the way I highly recommend it as your third move, or even over Roost) it forces Colossoil to gamble to even take Latios out while not dying. Not to mention most Colossoil don't carry pursuit, so in the end you're more likely to actually kill it by just spamming Draco's.

And Grass Knot isn't even that much of a niche move.

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 205-244 (56.4 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 385-455 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 100 HP / 0 SpD Mega Swampert: 525-619 (143.4 - 169.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Naviathan: 242-285 (59 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This lets you not only check Azumarill even easier than before, but it nullifies two otherwise decent checks to Latios, and prevents Naviathan from setting up on you if you whittle it down even slightly beforehand.

Granted, Grass Knot does have a steep cost for using it, being that you forgo HP fire, EQ, or Roost for it, but it nails four Pokemon that would otherwise keep it in line.

All in all, Latios still chunks half the meta with draco meteor and can threaten a decent majority with coverage moves. It's B rank out of fear of colossoil, and that's just dumb.
 

BP

Upper Decky Lip Mints
is a Contributor to Smogon
I don't see why you need to go mixed for Colossoil of all things... the most specially bulky spread is 2hko'ed by Surf.

252 SpA Life Orb Krilowatt Surf vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Assault Vest Colossoil: 187-221 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO
Latias Is a much better option Exlcaimer; Latias in mega format with a physically defensive set up has 372 defense and 336 SpD. I't can tank most attacks and recover with roost, Also if one chooses to run calm mind it can do the same if not more damage then Offensive Mega Latios. So Why not just use Latias
 
Latias Is a much better option Exlcaimer; Latias in mega format with a physically defensive set up has 372 defense and 336 SpD. I't can tank most attacks and recover with roost, Also if one chooses to run calm mind it can do the same if not more damage then Offensive Mega Latios. So Why not just use Latias
Why not use Cyclohm? There's a defensive dragon that actually puts in work and doesn't die to Cawmodore, Bisharp, Birdspam, and can switch out of Colossoil without dying. And it doesn't take the mega slot, either.

Latias Mega is only usable over Cyclohm if you need a defensive dragon win-con, which isn't very useful in this meta right now.
 

snake

is a Community Leaderis a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
CAP Co-Leader
Because he is strong and bulky and whilst he won't OHKO teams, he has the ability to soften up teams for another pokemon like RP M-Meta or SD Flame to come in and clean.
Now I'm not sure where to place it, my Kril is a little low on the rankings right now. Not only can it soften teams like Bionic Puppy has stated, but also I've also found it excellent to switch in without having to worry about hazards, can absorb Poison and Burn (the latter on Special sets, that is), force switches into special bulky mins like Chansey, Mega-Venusaur, or AV Colossoil it's biggest checks (Exclaimer mentioned these mons while I was typing this post out), and clean up late game once all faster Pokemon are off the field. Since it doesn't have to worry about residual damage, it can tank many forms of priority in a pinch and strike back with a hard hit, which has won me many games. When it forces a switch, one can double switch into an check/counter for the opponent's switch in, or in the case of AV Colo, the best answer that most teams have for Kril, use Surf to wear it down. I've even seen Leftovers Kril before. It didn't hit nearly as hard, but its coverage was still hard to switch in to, and it was hard to wear down.

Overall, I find Krilowatt to be a very good mon and to be deserving of at least B+. Although it might have trouble with Special tanks, its coverage is so wide that it can get "safe" SE damage on almost anything (i.e. Flying-Type switches out to a Ground-Type to tank a Thunderbolt, only to get hit by an Ice Beam). It's so versatile that it can take on my threats of the metagame, but it needs a little team support to take on it's check/counters.
 
Rotom - Wash and Krilowatt have 2 completely different roles. Kril is not bad, It can super effectiuvely hit most of the meta. Sure, it sucks against stall, so? Hyper offense and balance don't exactly like to look at it.


I agree with exclaimer's reasoning for Latios, But A might be stretched I think. I'd give it A- .

Broken Phobias, You're trying to say use Latias-Mega over Latios. No ty lol, I'd rather use my mega slot for something else. Latias in general is only better at Defog, and only slightly due to a little change in bulk. Nothing too special.

Also, why is Gengar B+ in the rankings. I never really understood that.
 

cbrevan

spin, spin, spin
is a CAP Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Just as a reminder to everyone making nominations, the best way for you to support anything you say is with a relevant replay showcasing the Pokemon in question. High leveled replays from the top of the ladder or a room tour work the best, but any decent replay that sufficiently displays a Pokemon's abilities works.

I have some thoughts on the current nominations and a couple of my own that I'll edit in at a later time.
 

Take Azelfie

More flags more fun
This seems a bit dead but with Crucibelle going to be available in the standard metagame in like a week I think it will stir up. And hopefully this nomination will get some debate

A+ to S rank
With my experience with CAP so far any type of fairy / ground coverage is extremely good which is the reason why Mega Altaria is so high. But when Mega Diancie comes out it is ready to threaten something life with the amazing coverage it gets via Diamond Storm, Moonblast and Earth Power. It trumps all the other S ranks (assuming the dragons don't have a DD up and Clef isn't set up to +4) Magic Bounce stops any shut down through a priority Thunder Wave or WoW as well as providing a small amount of mind games when combined with protect (an example being using protect on a Gliscor who uses Stealth Rock predicting you to switch out) not to mention it outspeed godmoth before any set-up and deal with most base things slower than base 110's (ex. Mega Medicham, Mega Zard Y, Non-scarf Keldeo.) Probably one the most obvious arguments is that it weak to steel-types like Scizor and Cawmodore but so is Mega Altaria and we also have a perfect partner in Magnezone which can trap them and revenge kill it, not only giving the team a counter to some of the top picks but also a partner with perfect synergy along side Diancie.
 
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I agree with moving Diancie up to S Rank. Hitting hard immediately out of the gate unlike Mega-Alt is something to be cherished. While Mega-Garde is more of a nuke overall, M-Diancie has more reliability against mons like Colo and Metagross where it can switch out without taking much damage (the former of which Garde has to be weary of through Sucker, while Diancie just needs Colo in the 70% range(?) I think. Also, there's next to no mon in this meta wants to switch into this thing.

Diancie also is great at scouting revenge killers like Volk, Mollux, and Choiced Scizor through Protect, preventing the player from needing to make hard predictions.

While Mag isn't commonly seen thanks to Colo, it still has a respectable niche in my eyes. Cyclohm is a very suitable partner for Mega-Diancie in the metagame as well. Chansey and SpD Jirachi being commonplace definitely sucks for Diancie, but I think it's a small concern overall for a mon with a great speed tier that packs quite a punch.
 
Having spearheaded the revolution of Diancie usage, it's not S rank. Here's why:

1) The things in S rank are MUCH more diverse than Diancie, who's moveset only every differentiates by one move: It has Moonblast, Earth Power, Diamond Storm, and then one of Protect, Rock Polish, Hidden Power Fire, or Calm Mind. This makes Diancie very predictable and has reliable checks and counters, such as Specially Defensive Jirachi (Also on the rise), Metagross, Scizor, Mega Venusaur, Rotom-Wash, and heck... when a Fairy weak mon such as Colossoil can actually tank a super effective hit and KO you back, that's not great.

2) It doesn't hit as hard as it wants to. 160/160 offenses are nothing to scoff at, but many Pokemon with a Life Orb can actually match this power rather easily. Combined with the low base power of its moves, compared to things like Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, and Outrage, Diancie just wishes it could do more than 70% to Colossoil.

3) Steels. They're rampant; Jirachi is as common as it ever has been, Metagross and Scizor both beat it reliably with priority, Mega Medicham carries Bullet Punch, Cawmodore threatens it out, and Scarf Magnezone outspeeds it. Diancie has a way of fighting back, but it's easily forced out.

In all, diancie's amazing, but A+ is fine, it's not metagame defining, it's not Char-X level of threatening, and it's not as easy to slap on your team as Tomohawk or Colossoil
 
I think the metagame has changed to steel being common because of diancie, whilst not Single-Handedly, its certainly had a massive influence. Isn't metagame defining one of the standards from S rank? In the words of KTG (That Meme Driver in CAP who's name I can never spell right) "Everything suffers from diancie lol" - This thing is very hard, if not impossible to check because of its Ground-Fairy coverage right now, hitting all CAP's neutrally and most, if not all OU mons neutrally too. Whist it is unpredictable, it's combination of its ability, typig, movepool and options makes this thing material for S rank. Even if we pull an LC and bring it up to S-, it needs to go up. A+, as high as it is, doesn't do it justice.
 
I disagree; Steel has always been a popular type, and the only mon that really rose to answer it was Jirachi. Granted, Diancie has a great time in this meta, but S is really pushing it when it's weak to the second best type in the meta... and that type has common, powerful priority. As much as Diancie forces out, it's forced out by an awful lot as well. Heck... you're forced out by a Pokemon that is weak to your main STAB (Colossoil).

Another thing to note is that Diancie's 160 attacking stats are good. But that's it; they're not great, because of two reasons.

1) Diancie cannot hold an item. This means a 115 Special Attack stat with Life Orb does the same amount of damage.

2) Low base power stabs. Many, many special attackers, such as Volkraken, Mega Gardevoir, and Tomohawk, actually outdamage Diancie with their main STABs.

252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 181-214 (53 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 226-267 (66.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 204-240 (59.8 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Tomohawk Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 181-214 (53 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (This is without life orb.)

Diancie has great coverage, and great STAB attacks, but in the end, it's not S because the metagame already has plenty of ways to beat it, force it out, and even wall it. To note: This thing is walled by Chansey, Skarmory, Jirachi, and bulky neutral waters like Suicune.

4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 216-255 (33.6 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 166-196 (41 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 120-142 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- 95.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (HP fire invalidates Skarmory, but Iron Head OHKO's while HP fire does not.)

252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 160-190 (39.6 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 108-127 (26.7 - 31.4%) -- 19.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Fairies are super good right now yes, but the main reason people think it's so successful is how much it screws over ladder; sure, it wins a lot of games, but competent players are well prepared for it.
 

OLD GREGG (im back baby)

old gregg for life
Mega Diancie is really good. It is the epitome of a glass cannon and that is its downfall. Taking up a mega slot and having a very limited move pool hurt it more than people realize. Other faster glass cannons like stratagem, syclant, or weavile(which all have priority attacks to boot) give it huge competition in the role of a fast powerful balance disrupter and they don't eat up a mega slot. Sure, Diancie gets magic bounce, but the necessity of running protect for a safe mevo kind of neuters the effectiveness of magic bounce since you can always click protect and try to scout the next move to make an appropriate switch. It's fine where it is and if anything might deserve a drop after the meta shifts around crucibelle, since they share a few common weaknesses.
 
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cbrevan

spin, spin, spin
is a CAP Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Crucibelle will not be ranked until after the playtest ends and it is then legal on the CAP ladder. After that point it will most likely remain unranked for a couple weeks to a month time as its role in the metagame develops. When the ranking team feels like its ingrained itself into the metagame enough for it to be properly judged I'll post here to let everyone know.
 

BP

Upper Decky Lip Mints
is a Contributor to Smogon
Swampert (Mega) B+-->C
Politoed B--->C



I'm having trouble Understanding just exactly why Swampert is placed so high on the list. Swampert is used as a rain sweeper that can't really live without Politoed. A weather reliant sweeper should not be higher then the weather inducer it's self. That being said is Politoed worthy of the B ranking? When does anyone even see these two being used anyways?
-
Politoed is manily a rain user with drizzle helping to put swift swim into play for mega swampert. This is the best and basically only set to use when running politoed. Standing alone the Dynamic duo have a gigantic amout of flaws. These flaws can be somewhat hardto cover up by a good base team.

The team I am currently using
Politoed (M) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Psychic
- Protect

Swampert-Mega (M) @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Stone Edge

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Energy Ball
- Ice Beam

Mollux @ Leftovers
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Sludge Bomb

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp
-
The Replays below are that of which shows you the team I created to cover up some flaws. If you actually watch the replays you can see what the team struggles with accomplishing because of it's weaknesses.
-
Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-318312136
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-318316050
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-318324364
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-318336125
 
Your team fails to use the strengths that Rain as a playstyle has: Extremely powerful, extremely fast hyper offense. You have one swift swim sweeper, and Manaphy, as the only mons who truly abuse the Rain that Politoed provides. Right now, it's just a balance team that's trying way too hard to abuse Rain, only failing to do so because it's so slow.

Your Politoed set is extremely bad. It doesn't hit hard enough without a boosting item to warrant two STAB moves, especially Hydro Pump, and Psychic doesn't even beat the Pokemon it's meant to hit, mainly Plasmanta and Mega Venusaur:

8 SpA Politoed Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Plasmanta: 124-146 (47.3 - 55.7%) -- 75.8% chance to 2HKO

8 SpA Politoed Psychic vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 102-122 (28.4 - 33.9%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO

You don't even 3HKO a mon who's weak to it; that's how pitifully weak it is. Also, you're running Protect. You're burning and stalling out your own rain turns. Jirachi also burns about 2-3 turns of rain when it comes in, so it is actively hindering you. Rotom doesn't have the strength to abuse Hydro Pump with that set, and it lacks Thunder too, which is another bad moveset.

You're running Outrage Swampert. You're set up bait for every Fairy and Steel with that move, and it's just atrociously bad on a mon who doesn't get STAB on it.


Your team fails to do what Rain does, and that's breaking apart teams quickly and efficiently. You don't use Kingdra, Plasmanta, Omastar, Kabutops, Krilowatt, Keldeo, Tomohawk, Tornadus-T, and many, many other Pokemon who abuse the rain FAR more effectively, and without wasting too many of your precious rain turns.

Now, instead, I'm going to actually propose the exact opposite and propose Politoed to B+, for the following reasons:

Rain as a playstyle in general is very underprepared for, and VERY powerful in CAP with so few Tyranitar and Charizard-Y running around. Balance crumbles to it, and the rise of Offensive teams bodes well for it, as Rain can outspeed and pummel them with Life Orb Hydro Pumps and Waterfalls. Politoed is an absolute necessity for Rain, and thus, should raise to reflect the amount of power it has.

Swampert is a rain staple because of its immunity to Electric and the Earthquake coverage that pairs well with Waterfall, hitting things like Mollux with otherwise is quite a problem for Rain teams. While it lacks the item that makes Kingdra and Kabutops hit so hard, it has a hefty 150 Attack stat, the ability to run Adamant comfortably, and Rain + STAB boosted Waterfall, which hits very hard, and is very fast. It has the drawback of Mega Evolving to abuse Swift Swim, but that's minor compared to the large amounts of benefits it provides rain teams.

Sadly, I cannot provide replays, I can only use so many different teams and Rain isn't one of them for now. I'll post replays to further back this up when I get the chance.
 
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Take Azelfie

More flags more fun
Your team fails to use the strengths that Rain as a playstyle has: Extremely powerful, extremely fast hyper offense. You have one swift swim sweeper, and Manaphy, as the only mons who truly abuse the Rain that Politoed provides. Right now, it's just a balance team that's trying way too hard to abuse Rain, only failing to do so because it's so slow.

Your Politoed set is extremely bad. It doesn't hit hard enough without a boosting item to warrant two STAB moves, especially Hydro Pump, and Psychic doesn't even beat the Pokemon it's meant to hit, mainly Plasmanta and Mega Venusaur:

8 SpA Politoed Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Plasmanta: 124-146 (47.3 - 55.7%) -- 75.8% chance to 2HKO

8 SpA Politoed Psychic vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 102-122 (28.4 - 33.9%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO

You don't even 3HKO a mon who's weak to it; that's how pitifully weak it is. Also, you're running Protect. You're burning and stalling out your own rain turns. Jirachi also burns about 2-3 turns of rain when it comes in, so it is actively hindering you. Rotom doesn't have the strength to abuse Hydro Pump with that set, and it lacks Thunder too, which is another bad moveset.

You're running Outrage Swampert. You're set up bait for every Fairy and Steel with that move, and it's just atrociously bad on a mon who doesn't get STAB on it.


Your team fails to do what Rain does, and that's breaking apart teams quickly and efficiently. You don't use Kingdra, Plasmanta, Omastar, Kabutops, Krilowatt, Keldeo, Tomohawk, Tornadus-T, and many, many other Pokemon who abuse the rain FAR more effectively, and without wasting too many of your precious rain turns.

Now, instead, I'm going to actually propose the exact opposite and propose them both to B+, for the following reasons:

Rain as a playstyle in general is very underprepared for, and VERY powerful in CAP with so few Tyranitar and Charizard-Y running around. Balance crumbles to it, and the rise of Offensive teams bodes well for it, as Rain can outspeed and pummel them with Life Orb Hydro Pumps and Waterfalls. Politoed is an absolute necessity for Rain, and thus, should raise to reflect the amount of power it has.

Swampert is a rain staple because of its immunity to Electric and the Earthquake coverage that pairs well with Waterfall, hitting things like Mollux with otherwise is quite a problem for Rain teams. While it lacks the item that makes Kingdra and Kabutops hit so hard, it has a hefty 150 Attack stat, the ability to run Adamant comfortably, and Rain + STAB boosted Waterfall, which hits very hard, and is very fast. It has the drawback of Mega Evolving to abuse Swift Swim, but that's minor compared to the large amounts of benefits it provides rain teams.

Sadly, I cannot provide replays, I can only use so many different teams and Rain isn't one of them for now. I'll post replays to further back this up when I get the chance.
Broken Phobias your team is not very good as you literally have only one rain abuser (I don't count Mollux since Fire moves get nerfed) and one other pokemon who could potentially abuse isn't even using Rest. I do agree with Exclaimer's post and Politoed should go up to B+ (I could even say A- since it single handedly makes this play style viable.)

Also Mega Swampert is already B+
 
Swampy is where it belongs, as he isn't made just for rain. Look on the UU viability for pete's sake! He's higher A+ there! He has very nice bulk with an amazing typing ad has the ability to effectively run underrated sets, including Curse, RestTalk and Defensive! I think you fail to mention that Swampy just fills so many roles that it isn't B+ because of rain, Broken Phobias
 
Swampy is where it belongs, as he isn't made just for rain. Look on the UU viability for pete's sake! He's higher A+ there! He has very nice bulk with an amazing typing ad has the ability to effectively run underrated sets, including Curse, RestTalk and Defensive! I think you fail to mention that Swampy just fills so many roles that it isn't B+ because of rain, Broken Phobias
The sets in UU are completlely irrelevant. His only niche is rain, as he is just a waste of a Mega Evolution otherwise. Granted, his niche in Rain is pretty massive, but this is CAP, not UU, do not bring any UU sets/viability in here. It will be ignored immediately.
 

QueenOfLuvdiscs

Tier 3 Audino sub
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
uu meta and cap meta are two completely different things and using that as an argument is not gonna help your case

edit: sniped
 

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