Gen 6 Counter That Uber Pokemon! (Round 3 Nomination Stage)

[Disaster Area]

I think the groudon suggestion is my favourite so far

Edit: Another suggestion
Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Atk
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Payback
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge

Nothing outright counters this pokemon as a lead except maybe groudon, it anti-leads a lot of other possibilities bar smeargle really, provides stealth rock, and is a decent check to mega-gengar and mewtwo forms. It also doesn't massively inhibit teambuilding as anything from full stall to bulky offense (maybe even HO?) appreciate ttar.

 

[CarbonTheSecond]

Well, since Fireburn made my RP Don set redundant minutes before I was about to post it...

Palkia @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spacial Rend
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Fire Blast

Beyond simply being Scarfed Kyogre's worst nightmare, Assault Vest Palkia is a versatile offensive threat all around. Wielding dual STABs that hit a wide variety of targets for heavy damage, plus coverage moves neutralize several of its would-be counters, checking this behemoth isn't the easiest task without a certain pink blob. This exotically shaped dragon acts as both a safeguard against Water Spout spam, which forces Kyogre-reliant teams to find a way around it, and works as a decent revenge killer, particularly against that ridiculous LO Krom set. I'd go into more specifics, but I'm tired af and Hack's gonna rip apart my reasoning anyhow e.e

 

[Tomahawk]

Okay, time for voting! These are all nominated sets you can vote on:

U-turn Yveltal
Geomancy Xerneas
Thunder Wave Ho-Oh
Choice Specs Kyogre
Life Orb Deoxys-A
Focus Sash Deoxys-S
Stealth Rock Dialga
Stallbreaker Mega Mewtwo Y
Life Orb Zekrom
Swords Dance Rayquaza*
Calm Mind Dark Arceus
Nasty Plot Darkrai
Rock Polish Groudon
Chople Berry Tyranitar
Assault Vest Palkia

*Specify what move you want in the last moveslot

You can vote by PMing me. This round voting will be with everyone making a top three: make the subject of your PM: "CTUP: <First choice>, <Second choice>, <Third choice>". Also put this in the actual PM. If you voted for Rayquaza, specify what move you want for it here. Make sure to vote for three sets, or your vote will not count! Also, keep in mind that the order of your choices does matter. PS voting for your own sets is allowed. If you PM me twice with votes, the most recent PM will count.

The voting stage will probably last around two or three days, so you can't nominate anything right now. Discussion of these sets is encouraged though!

 

[Player-0]

This is a really cool idea. Would this work if we actually were to elect teams with the team leaders performing the battles.

 

[Tomahawk]

This is a really cool idea. Would this work if we actually were to elect teams with the team leaders performing the battles.

I'm sorry but I'm not exactly sure what you mean. After constructing the teams we vote for two players to play a Best of Three with these two teams, if that's what you mean?

 

[Tomahawk]

Allright, voting stage is over and votes are in! Thanks for voting everyone! Here are the results:

Stealth Rock Dialga: 17
Rock Polish Groudon: 15
Life Orb Zekrom: 9
Choice Specs Kyogre: 9
Thunder Wave Ho-Oh: 6
Geomancy Xerneas: 6
Chople Berry Tyranitar: 3
Nasty Plot Darkrai: 2
U-turn Yveltal: 2
Stallbreaker Mega Mewtwo Y: 1
Life Orb Deoxys-A: 1
Focus Sash Deoxys-S: 1

It is now once again time for nominations. This round of nominations will be for Team 2, and will aim to counter Dialga. Keep in mind that Team 2 will get to pick a Pokémon twice in a row, so these can be any combination of checks, counters or just Pokémon that are hard to counter themselves (though those would probably be better off nominated in the second pick). With that said, let's get to nominating! (And unlike Round 1, you can nominate only one set this round).

Dialga @ Adamant Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Stealth Rock

 

[Player-0]

Any Blissey Variant will totally wall this thing and force it to switch out. So that option is always on the table. Then forces a a somewhat- 50/50 situation.

I was also thing about groudon. It relies on the the speed tie, but it keeps many options on the table. Also there is lando-T, but I feel like that would require more team support if you simply want to counter dialga.

Groudon @ Lifeorb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk/ 4 Spd/ 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Stone Edge / Dragon Tail
move 4: Dragon Tail / Toxic / Lava Plume

This set allows you to OHKO the dialga, although it cannot switch into it. This set offers great team support with Groudon being able to stealth rock. There is also toxic phazing potential in this set making it that much more of a team player. Not to mention that with Groudon we get 5 turns of sun which could be a determent since we know the sets.

 

[Haruno]

Just ignore dialga for now imo. It's far too disadvantageous to pick a mon such specially defensive kyogre or blissey just to straight up wall it since it would put team 2 to constantly be picking mons reactively. Seems better to just decide on a 2 mon core while disregarding straight up countering dialga and instead focusing on our own team to force team 1 to use their second mon to stop both of our picks.

 

[Hack]

My god what have people done, respect to Orch but picking the SR user first is bad because we stuck with a set wallable by many defogers, since we don't have toxic and lefties. The set also doesn't check Kyogre nor Zekrom very well meaning team 1 will now be forced into picking checks for mons that should be covered by Dialga if team 2 chooses these mons ofc.

Also, did people actually vote for that hilarious Zekrom set rofl

 

[Haruno]

Considering how we didn't pick dialga for the purpose of checking ogre or zekrom, I fail to see a problem lol. If hack really wanted a versatile first mon that isn't walled/checked by something then you should've nommed one. Regardless no matter what we chose as a round 1 mon there would obviously be answers for it.

Anyways back on topic, someone nom some form of sand stall please.

 

[Edgar]

Wait, people use timid dialga?

 

[Disaster Area]

I meant to nom lugia before the time was up, because the holes it introduces are like the easiest things to fill. Also lol @ how Player-0 thinks Groudon has Pressure.
Hey Tom maybe u could let us know who voted for what. [btw I voted TTar/Groudon/Darkrai]

And at Edgar I didn't realise people even used Dialga at all lol.

 

[Inspirited]

Anyways back on topic, someone nom some form of sand stall please.

I guess I won't nominate Heatran then... (someone else should though)

Nomination HO! :

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish nature
- Slack Off
- Toxic
- Whirlwind
- Earthquake
Its a Hippo and I liek Hippos. It doesn't take on Dialga well at all unless it gets a free switch in against it where it can start Slacking Off Dracos until it is comfortable with Earthquaking Dialga or setting up Stealth Rock. Dialga shouldn't be staying in after -2 anyways though. Downsides to using this include locking up Team 2's archetype to sand stall since that is where Hippo does its most notable work.

Edit: I was thinking of changing out Rocks for Whirlwind for flexibility purposes when it comes to nominating a SR setter

Edit 2: I got rid of Rocks for Whirlwind just to minimize the downsides of this pokemon

 

[Eatthepear]

All right, I'm going to make a suggestion. I think Tank Ho-Oh should be the first Pokemon on team 2.

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Spd / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Substitute

This thing is able to take hits from Dialga, Roost off the damage, and set up a Substitute in its face. Sacred Fire and Brave Bird are mandatory STABs. Roost gives it reliable recovery aside from Regenerator. Substitute helps scout switch ins and also protect Ho-Oh from status. Life Orb gives it necessary power to hit things incredibly hard, 2HKOing things such as Kyogre. Unfortunately Ho-Oh has a Stealth Rock weakness, but this is mitigated with Defog support (which will most likely be added eventually). Ho-Oh also forces team 1 to have a check/counter to it, as otherwise it will wreck things.
Here are some damage calcs to show Ho-Oh's power and bulk:
252+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 199-235 (58.3 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (This is the Dialga set we picked)
252+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyogre: 216-255 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (That's a max physical bulk Kyogre!)
252+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 239-282 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Standard Extreme Killer)

252 SpA Adamant Orb Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 195-229 (46.9 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO (Ho-Oh can roost off the damage)
+2 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 355-418 (85.5 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (that's a minuscule chance to OHKO, while Ho-Oh can hit back and either heavily dent and possibly burn Arceus)

 

[Eatthepear]

Tank Ho-Oh to counter Dialga without EQ. I surrender. I mean 1 v 1 tank Ho-Oh wins anyways but remember this will end up being 6 v 6. Do we even need to pick a counter to Dialga at this time?

Well, the thing about that is that both moves 2HKO Dialga anyway.
252+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 265-315 (77.7 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 199-235 (58.3 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So Earthquake would be largely redundant (well, not useful in countering Dialga), while Substitute enables you to scout switches and prevent harmful status.

 

[Player-0]

Ho-oh should wait. It has to have a defogger/rapid spinner so we are locking ourselves into having one very early on. Also ho-oh has some hard counters.

 

[Cobalt314]

I nominate Klinklang the following:

Landorus-T @ Earth Plate (Offensive Landorus)
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn

This is what I usually run on my Landorus Therian, and I see it as a good counter to Dialga. Earth Plate-boosted Earthquake always lands the OHKO, and that one extra point in base speed means that Landorus-T will always be attacking first. However, Landorus is also useful as a Stealth Rock setter and a pivot for Team 2 with U-turn. And, with Stone Edge, it achieves perfect neutral coverage, resisted by none. Its flying typing provides it with useful immunities to grounded entry hazards, while Intimidate allows it to check opposing physical attackers. It doesn't, however, appreciate status or attacks originating from a dihydrogen monoxide source (H2O, liquid and solid). However, team 2 gets the next pick as well, so a teammate can cover those weaknesses.

 

[Haruno]

I nominate Klinklang the following:

Landorus-T @ Earth Plate (Offensive Landorus)
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn

This is what I usually run on my Landorus Therian, and I see it as a good counter to Dialga. Earth Plate-boosted Earthquake always lands the OHKO, and that one extra point in base speed means that Landorus-T will always be attacking first. However, Landorus is also useful as a Stealth Rock setter and a pivot for Team 2 with U-turn. And, with Stone Edge, it achieves perfect neutral coverage, resisted by none. Its flying typing provides it with useful immunities to grounded entry hazards, while Intimidate allows it to check opposing physical attackers. It doesn't, however, appreciate status or attacks originating from a dihydrogen monoxide source (H2O, liquid and solid). However, team 2 gets the next pick as well, so a teammate can cover those weaknesses.

Only time landoge potentially wins is if either they both lead, or after dialga ko's something. Not to mention that in either scenario you're forced into a 50-50 which seems iffy imo considering how high risk it is, not to mention that using a sr setter for our first mon is debatable. I feel it's better to just completely ignore dialga for now and instead aim for a 2 mon core that will apply pressure onto team 1's teambuilding. Effs

 

[Cobalt314]

Only time landoge potentially wins is if either they both lead, or after dialga ko's something. Not to mention that in either scenario you're forced into a 50-50 which seems iffy imo considering how high risk it is, not to mention that using a sr setter for our first mon is debatable. I feel it's better to just completely ignore dialga for now and instead aim for a 2 mon core that will apply pressure onto team 1's teambuilding. Effs

Wait, are we voting for the Pokémon that will be the first Pokémon sent out, or will that be decided later?

 

[Haruno]

Wait, are we voting for the Pokémon that will be the first Pokémon sent out, or will that be decided later?

We do not necessarily have to vote on a lead, we're just voting on the first mon to place on team 2. It's better to not have a set in stone lead anyways especially in the first round of choosing.

 

[Cobalt314]

Alright, that's what I thought. However,

Only time landoge potentially wins is if either they both lead, or after dialga ko's something. Not to mention that in either scenario you're forced into a 50-50 which seems iffy imo considering how high risk it is, not to mention that using a sr setter for our first mon is debatable. I feel it's better to just completely ignore dialga for now and instead aim for a 2 mon core that will apply pressure onto team 1's teambuilding. Effs

How will that be a 50/50 situation? Landorus has base 91 speed, which, when combined with Jolly and at least 248 Speed EVs, means that Lando will always win the speed war. And based on the following damage calc, Earthquake is a guaranteed KO:
252 Atk Earth Plate Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 366-432 (107.3 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Unless I misunderstood your statement.

 

[Haruno]

Alright, that's what I thought. However,

How will that be a 50/50 situation? Landorus has base 91 speed, which, when combined with Jolly and at least 248 Speed EVs, means that Lando will always win the speed war. And based on the following damage calc, Earthquake is a guaranteed KO:
252 Atk Earth Plate Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 366-432 (107.3 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Unless I misunderstood your statement.

If we use a landoge then I can assure you that team 1 will have a flier/levitater which will indeed make it a 50-50 since you're forced to win it and be at a huge disadvantage if you don't. Not to mention landoge isn't a good mon to use on a core designed to restrict team 1's teambuilding process anyways and it's just a shit mon in general especially when your opp is preparing for it.

 

[Cobalt314]

If we use a landoge then I can assure you that team 1 will have a flier/levitater which will indeed make it a 50-50 since you're forced to win it and be at a huge disadvantage if you don't. Not to mention landoge isn't a good mon to use on a core designed to restrict team 1's teambuilding process anyways and it's just a shit mon in general especially when your opp is preparing for it.

I get it now. Thanks for clearing it up.

 

[Player-0]

Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Surf
move 3: Thunder
move 4: Ice Beam

I realize this set is used for the surprise factor usually, but I think it can be useful here. We can expect team 1 to counter it with some somewhat predictable mon choices in the future allowing team 2 to guess a tad bit less. We maybe revealing our special attacker, but it is Kyorge it a versatile mon on any team, we aren't really locking ourselves into too much. This also provides team support in the form of speed control. Even with the bulk we still get 2HKO'd, by draco meteor, but if we have a fairy in the back we should be good. Also even if we don't worst case scenario is that we take the first draco and then paralyze it assuming we don't switch in on on.

252 SpA Adamant Orb Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 211-250 (52.3 - 62%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 252 SpA Adamant Orb Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 106-126 (26.3 - 31.2%) -- 11% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Tomahawk]

Player-0, does that mean I can scratch your previous Groudon nomination?