Crash Damage Adjustment

[Frosty]

STAY ON TOPIC​

Proposal: Change the crash damage for Bounce*, Fly*, Sky Drop*, Jump Kick and Hi Jump Kick to 2 * Weight Class + 4. Credit goes to Flamestrike for the numbers.

Reason: It's balanced, it's logical, it's simple. The current way is balanced, not logical, and arguably not as simple.

Balanced: Note that in all scenarios in which crash damage occurs, the Pokemon is already missing with the attack. Even 6 damage on a WC 1 Pokemon is going to leave a bit of a mark. However, the increases are not humongous - WC 3 and 4 Pokemon only take 10 and 12 crash damage respectively, which is sometimes slightly more than and sometimes the same as the amount of crash damage they'd take under the current system (with the exception of Hi Jump Kick against a Fighting-weak opponent). Even the main extreme cases of Gyarados (16 damage) and Colossoil (24 damage, but let's be honest, Colossoil is already strong as heck) produce reasonably balanced results.

Logical: Because when you're not even hitting the opponent but are instead crashing onto the floor, what difference does it make whether you were targeting Aggron or Heracross?

Simple: Multiply one variable integer by one constant, and then add another constant. You do this whenever you calculate the BAP of WC-based moves already, and you're sometimes using decimals in that. Compare this to the current system in which you have to do an entire damage calculation and then modify the result even further.

* The crash damage for these moves is for when the user of them (or target of Sky Drop) is hit by Smack Down or someone else uses Gravity before they come down.

The post above is clear enough, so please read it and discuss, k?

 

[Stratos]

The problem here is game balance. A helping handed hi jump kick combo should be more risky to use than a jump kick into reflect. That said, i really don't care how this resolves so

 

[Objection]

Yeah, 2 * Weight Class + 4 is a starting point, but I could see a case being made to increase that for Jump Kick and Hi Jump Kick. Maybe for those two change 4 to BAP / 2 (after Helping Hand)? That'd result in 5 for regular Jump Kick, 6.5 for Hi Jump Kick and double those for Helping Handed versions. Just a thought.

 

[ZhengTann]

Obj's idea might be on track. HJK and JK's crash could be dependent on how hard you hit (As in, the higher the BAP, the worse you crash if you miss). For the other three, probably could change it to weight (since it's most likely Gravity messing with your ability to stay aloft). So, uhm:

For Hi Jump Kick and Jump Kick:
(Crash damage) = (BAP after HH, before STAB) + (Weight Class)

For Fly, Bounce, Sky Drop:
Crash damage = 4 + (Weight Class) * 2

Current Calcs

Pure Power Medicham HJK Tyranitar, Crash = 19.688 damage
Pure Power Medicham HH HJK Tyranitar, Crash = 34.313 damage
Pure Power Medicham HJK Yanmega, Crash = 4.222 damage
Sawsbuck HJK Kitsunoh, Crash = 14.625 damage
Sawsbuck HJK Yanmega, Crash = 3.222 damage

Colossoil Bounce Heracross, Crash = 15.75 damage
Colossoil Bounce Aggron, Crash = 1.778 damage
Braviary Sky Drop Heracross, Crash = 18 damage
Archeops Fly Heracross, Crash = 16.875 damage
Archeops Fly Aggron, Crash = 2 damage

Suggested Calcs

Pure Power Medicham HJK, Crash = 16 damage
Pure Power Medicham HH HJK, Crash = 29 damage
Sawsbuck HJK, Crash = 17 damage

Colossoil Bounce, Crash = 24
Braviary Sky Drop, Crash = 10
Archen Fly, Crash = 6

Assuming neutral nature.

I didn't include screen nerfings into HJK and JK for two reasons. Flavour-wise, if a Jump Kicker misses its target, the screens are not gonna cushion the fall - they're meant to shield the target not, the Jump Kicker. Mechanics-wise, it's a slight boon to screening tactics, and to defensive play as a whole (I really think offensive play is much more dominant than defensive play due to lack of viable options in the latter). Hit me up if you see any glaring faults and/or like to fiddle with the maths further.

Edit @ Obj below: My bad. Nineteen point something is much closer to the actual answer.

 

[Its_A_Random]

So... Anything going to come of this?

 

[Objection]

I would be interested to know what arguments would be put forth to maintain the status quo other than appeals to tradition. Right now I can't see anything wrong with ZhengTann's proposal (although how Medicham takes only 9.5 crash damage from missing HJK vs. Tyranitar under the current system I do not know).

 

[Frosty]

a)Keep Recoil as is
b)Implement ZhengTann's proposed change
c)Go back to the drawing board for other suggestions of change

Voters that choose c are expected to provide reasoning.

This will move to the booth in 24h