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Giving +75/+115/+24/+45/+80/+1 boosts, a wide offensive movepool (including Dragon Dance if you want to fix that +1 Speed boost), two great abilities in Intimidate and Moxie, and a Flying type, I think Gyarados would still be broken. Even Gallade's Attack boost pales in comparison with that +115, which actually gives a lot of stuff +200 base Attack AND Dragon Dance AND Moxie. The boosts on bulk not only mean it's easier to set-up, you can pretty much cross a Steel-type with recovery with Gyarados to get a better Skarmory, with Intimidate, and the Attack boost ensures you are not passive. EDIT: Damn you can't with Steel-types, but it is still good for defensive Pokémon (I've seen Gligar x Gyarados)
In that sense, Gyarados outpowers even Milotic, in that it can be put on either offensive or defensive sets to get a monstruous set-up sweeper or a wall.
Gyara can turn almost anything with decent enough Attack into a terrifying offensive threat with all around good stats due to the monstrous +115 Attack boost. For an example, if you cross-evolve Pawniard (which only has 85 Attack), it ends up with 200 Attack, access to Dragon Dance AND Moxie, and pretty high HP and Defense. Milotic is fine because it gives a smaller move pool, as well as its three potential abilites being either situational or useless.
Tl;Dr Cross-evolving with Gyarados would be very unhealthy for the meta, as anything can become an offensive threat with two potential great abilities
The above said, I don't think it would necessarily be harmful to temporarily unban the currently banned fusion components to see whether they'd still be broken enough in an Ubers-based meta to merit staying banned. As far as I'm aware the Pokémon that are currently banned haven't had any serious playtesting, and while there's not much doubt that they would have been banworthy in the previous meta, the question now is whether they're still banworthy in a metagame that's both (presumably) following the Ubers ban philosophy and has many more significant threats than the current Ubers, and that's not possible to solve without some playtesting as far as I'm concerned.
edit: just in case this caused any confusion, I'm only suggesting the unbans of Archen, Sneasel, Scyther, and Gyarados. Huge/Pure Power, Shedinja, and Shadow Tag are pretty obviously broken so there's no need to test them
yeah can we not allow everything to have shadow tag? The boosts given aren't that large but Goth was still mildly irritating in ubers iirc and its not like goth/wobb give AWFUL gains to things:
Goth: 10/10/20/20/25/10 + CM, Heal Bell, Screens, Taunt, Twave, Trick and fairly good special coverage
Wobb: 95/10/10/10/10/10 + Counter/Coat, Destiny Bond, Encore and Splash
you don't even know what mons could possibly have it. if you see Goth/gar/etc at TP in Ubers, you know you need to prepare for trapping. I could say more on this but I'm lazy and shadow tag is stupid.
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I'd also suggest unbanning everything except like Shadow Tag, Shedinja and Huge/Pure Power. Scyther and Archen will quite possibly be broken but imo they're worth testing (Archen is almost entirely worse than Scyther other than the rocks weakness). Evolving into Gyarados is most likely broken as well, but again, we don't know.
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On a more fun note, a couple of us were theorymonning a couple of days ago, on rom. Here's my favourite set that we came up with:
Your new stats are 90/150/100/75/100/145, with a cool Bug/Water typing which boasts 5 resistances and only 3 weaknesses. But most importantly you have Simple Swords Dance with 145 base speed to back it up, making it a potent sweeper. Dual STABs have fairly good coverage, being walled by [Dragon or Water]/[Flying, Fairy, Steel, Fighting, Ghost, or Poison], which realistically amounts to Megamence, Giratina and whatever new arises from cross-evolving. Bulldoze is mainly for Pdon:
+4 252 Atk Life Orb Scyther Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Primal Groudon: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (aka get rocks up and then Pdon only comes in once)
Another calc because holy hell this thing hits like a truck:
+4 252 Atk Life Orb Scyther Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus: 360-425 (81 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
I've updated ROM to allow everything except Shedinja, Huge Power, Pure Power and Shadow Tag, so that people can retest those cross evolutions. (Uber's Mega Rayquaza clause is also in effect by default.)
I love the idea of Archen, Sneasel and Scyther. Gyarados to me is still abit too strong for my taste, not for the Attack boost, but for that massive bulk boost.
Scyther however already gat dat 500 BST, so It might be a stretch.
I love the idea of Archen, Sneasel and Scyther. Gyarados to me is still abit too strong for my taste, not for the Attack boost, but for that massive bulk boost.
Scyther however already gat dat 500 BST, so It might be a stretch.
Sneasel should run Quick Attack.
Dont run that Porygon set.
Magneton cant evolve.
Cranidos needs much needed speed.
Gligar is also garbage and Rampardos is a subpar donor in an ubers environment in reference to stats.
Grovyle has horrid ev spread and is kinda subpar too.
Sneasel should run Quick Attack.
Dont run that Porygon set.
Magneton cant evolve.
Cranidos needs much needed speed.
Gligar is also garbage and Rampardos is a subpar donor in an ubers environment in reference to stats.
Grovyle has horrid ev spread and is kinda subpar too.
Just want to point out that since this is Ubers based, there is almost no reason to not have Pdon/an Arceus form on your team.
I'll be on rom a bit later if anyone wants to battle me
To add to what G-Luke said, Archen is probably the better choice for a Reckless Head Smash abuser as while it has a little bit less raw power it's naturally much faster and has a useful immunity to Ground moves (and a neutrality to Fighting moves, but that's unlikely to matter much in practice as its physical bulk is still pathetic). Regardless of whether you stick with Cranidos or switch to Archen, though, I'd advise you shift the HP investment over to Speed and use a Jolly nature instead of an Adamant nature; in addition, Choice Band is a better choice for an item than Life Orb because you're already taking ridiculously high amounts of recoil from Head Smash and the Choice Band's effect of locking the user into a move doesn't matter as much when essentially nothing wants to take a Head Smash or High Jump Kick.
Also, Magmar is a better option than Grovyle for evolving into Serperior because it has STAB on another move that benefits from Contrary, Overheat, and is still able to use Leaf Storm as coverage.
Just want to point out that since this is Ubers based, there is almost no reason to not have Pdon/an Arceus form on your team.
I'll be on rom a bit later if anyone wants to battle me
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake / Precipice Blades
- Lava Plume / Stone Edge / Fire Punch
- Roar / Thunder Wave / Dragon Tail
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 96 SpD / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Precipice Blades
- Dragon Claw / Swords Dance
- Stone Edge / Fire Punch
OVER GLIGAR (SUPPORT)
+ Better typing
+ Desolate Land
+ More power
+ Access to Lava Plume, usable SpA
+ Absorbs Knock Off
OVER RHYDON (ROCK POLISH)
+ Faster, can run bulky spreads
+ Can run mixed sets
+ Better typing
+ Desolate Land
137/135/135/55/95/110
Hariyama (Gligar) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Earthquake
- U-turn
Can run a lot of other cross-evolutions, like Masquerain
+ Reliable recovery
+ U-turn
+ Fire resistance (Primal Groudon's negated by its own Desolate Land)
+ Can run an item
+ Better speed tier
+ Better special bulk
+ Ground immunity
135/220/150/45/105/70
Gallade (Rhydon) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Knock Off / Swords Dance / Stone Edge
- Rock Polish
+ Better bulk
+ More power
+ Can hold an item
+ Knock Off
Anyway now that i know i'm not an idiot and it was just a bug, here are a few sets ive been having fun with
Since Scyther and Gyarados were recently unbanned, I decided to see just how broken they were. Together, they make an excellent sweeping combo. The STAB moves are kinda mediocre (aerial ace only has 60 BP and not many things are scared of bug attacks), and earthquake nails steels and rocks. Waterfall is only OK as coverage. However, it does hit steels neutrally and rocks super effectively even if they're flying/levitating, so it has its use.
Contrary seems really really good. This is just a basic all out attacker set which boosts incredibly easily against a lot of top metagame threats. Leafstorm cleanly 1hkos most rhyhorn variants after SR. Overheat is boosting STAB, hp ice is for MegaMence and rhyhorn x drag, and psychic is for when you dont wanna risk a miss.
Finally, a second all out attacker which gives my current team some much needed priority. With nearly 500 attack and an insane speed tier, this thing hits like a truck. It makes an excellent revenge killer and knock off spamming is always helpful. Also, spore.
Breloom (Sneasel) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Spore/Low Kick
It looks like my code for Ability Unity corrupted the type information in memory, so that Kirlia's Psychic/Fairy type became Fairy/Psychic while Gallade's Psychic/Fighting type became Fighting/Psychic. Cross Evolution then decided that Gallade's primary typing changed from Fairy to Fighting. Should be fixed now.
Alright guys since we need some sample teams i'm gonna do a quick RMT. I've built a bare bones HO team with Deo-S as a suicide lead and Scyther x Gyarados as my late game sweeper of choice. Gyarados is 100% broke. Scyther might be too. Regardless, I recommend you abuse em while you can. Without further ado, here's the squad.
This is a barebones HO lead i stole straight my Ubers. It does its job and it does it well. The only problem is that anything can be a magic bouncer, and the meta hasnt settled well enough for you to know whether or not your opp has something that's a cross evo of espeon. EVs are for speed (highly important) and bulk (this thing still has mediocre bulk). 95% of the time you just let it be killed. Honedge can be a good anti lead, so be careful; mind games can ensue as to whether or not its gonna swords dance or shadow sneak. Even at +2 its easily revenged, but it's still a pain. Skill Swap and Magic Coat are basically gimmicks, but they're highly effective gimmicks. Magic Coat every single prankster mon you see.
Breloom (Sneasel) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Spore
This guy is absolutely amazing. With the given EVs, it hits approximately 470 attack and 440 speed. I run dual prio plus knock off to serve as a good revenge killer. Ice shard 1 shots MegaMence even without stab, and its clean too. Even bulker mence's die after SR. Spore lets you sleep anything you cant 1 shot. All magic bouncers are at psychic typed, so Knock Off usually KOs. Tangela can take any 1 hit, but knock off does a large chunk.
After 1 or 2 boosts, this thing is nearly unwallable. Overheat is a very spammable stab, and leaf storm provides good coverage alongside it. Dragon pulse is mostly filler tbh, it theoretically hits Latis and Reshirams and stuff but idk how useful it is. On the upside, it wont miss, unlike freakin overheat + leaf storm (i swear 90% acc isnt what it used to be). HP Ice nails a lot of drag cross evos, especially rhyhorn x drag. It also kills mega mence. This thing is reasonably fast, but its power is underwhelming without a boost. However, bring it in on something it can hit for SE damage, and after that first hit you're in business. Very good, much power.
Not gonna lie, I stole this set straight from the OP. Yall should know what it does. You boost up your speed and attack while the opposition tries and fails to dent you, then spam coverage as appropriate. Close Combat is very powerful. Gear Grind isnt that powerful imo (however ive been using it without STAB which would def make a difference). Knock Off spam is spammable, knockin stuff off is always fun.
volcarona (Tangela) @ Miracle Seed
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Quiver Dance
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Energy Ball
- Sleep Powder
Tangela is suprisingly bulky and also surprsingly fast. While sleep powder misses abt 50% of the time, it lets you win the other 50%. Quiver Dance lets you boost TF up and kill shit. Basically just spam energy ball and use HP ice on grass/flying/dragon types (ie rhyhorn x drag, my mortal enemy). Fire Blast/Fiery Dance are also options, but I dont like em as much. Flame Body lets you hax stuff (every good team needs hax!!!).
THIS THING IS BROKEN. Ban Gyarados for sure, Scyther maybe idk. That being said, it does have some lousy STABs; aerial ace is crap, and X-Scissor isn't exactly spammable either. EQ is good coverage at least. With Moxie you boost easily and can basically just walk through entire teams. PLEASE BAN THIS. Waterfall is also an option, but its prolly inferior to EQ. Basically, when most of your opponents team is weakened, sack something (this is HO after all), and bring in this beast. Boost up in the face of your oppoition (tbh you only really need 1 DD, but 2 is usually achievable). Then kill everyone.
Alright guys since we need some sample teams i'm gonna do a quick RMT. I've built a bare bones HO team with Deo-S as a suicide lead and Scyther x Gyarados as my late game sweeper of choice. Gyarados is 100% broke. Scyther might be too. Regardless, I recommend you abuse em while you can. Without further ado, here's the squad.
This is a barebones HO lead i stole straight my Ubers. It does its job and it does it well. The only problem is that anything can be a magic bouncer, and the meta hasnt settled well enough for you to know whether or not your opp has something that's a cross evo of espeon. EVs are for speed (highly important) and bulk (this thing still has mediocre bulk). 95% of the time you just let it be killed. Honedge can be a good anti lead, so be careful; mind games can ensue as to whether or not its gonna swords dance or shadow sneak. Even at +2 its easily revenged, but it's still a pain. Skill Swap and Magic Coat are basically gimmicks, but they're highly effective gimmicks. Magic Coat every single prankster mon you see.
Breloom (Sneasel) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Spore
This guy is absolutely amazing. With the given EVs, it hits approximately 470 attack and 440 speed. I run dual prio plus knock off to serve as a good revenge killer. Ice shard 1 shots MegaMence even without stab, and its clean too. Even bulker mence's die after SR. Spore lets you sleep anything you cant 1 shot. All magic bouncers are at psychic typed, so Knock Off usually KOs. Tangela can take any 1 hit, but knock off does a large chunk.
After 1 or 2 boosts, this thing is nearly unwallable. Overheat is a very spammable stab, and leaf storm provides good coverage alongside it. Dragon pulse is mostly filler tbh, it theoretically hits Latis and Reshirams and stuff but idk how useful it is. On the upside, it wont miss, unlike freakin overheat + leaf storm (i swear 90% acc isnt what it used to be). HP Ice nails a lot of drag cross evos, especially rhyhorn x drag. It also kills mega mence. This thing is reasonably fast, but its power is underwhelming without a boost. However, bring it in on something it can hit for SE damage, and after that first hit you're in business. Very good, much power.
Not gonna lie, I stole this set straight from the OP. Yall should know what it does. You boost up your speed and attack while the opposition tries and fails to dent you, then spam coverage as appropriate. Close Combat is very powerful. Gear Grind isnt that powerful imo (however ive been using it without STAB which would def make a difference). Knock Off spam is spammable, knockin stuff off is always fun.
volcarona (Tangela) @ Miracle Seed
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Quiver Dance
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Energy Ball
- Sleep Powder
Tangela is suprisingly bulky and also surprsingly fast. While sleep powder misses abt 50% of the time, it lets you win the other 50%. Quiver Dance lets you boost TF up and kill shit. Basically just spam energy ball and use HP ice on grass/flying/dragon types (ie rhyhorn x drag, my mortal enemy). Fire Blast/Fiery Dance are also options, but I dont like em as much. Flame Body lets you hax stuff (every good team needs hax!!!).
THIS THING IS BROKEN. Ban Gyarados for sure, Scyther maybe idk. That being said, it does have some lousy STABs; aerial ace is crap, and X-Scissor isn't exactly spammable either. EQ is good coverage at least. With Moxie you boost easily and can basically just walk through entire teams. PLEASE BAN THIS. Waterfall is also an option, but its prolly inferior to EQ. Basically, when most of your opponents team is weakened, sack something (this is HO after all), and bring in this beast. Boost up in the face of your oppoition (tbh you only really need 1 DD, but 2 is usually achievable). Then kill everyone.
Added it to the sample teams, thanks! Some comments/suggestions:
Honedge is a monster but has suffered a lot when Ubers and Gyarados were unbanned as the metagame is now bulkier, despite being more offense-based.
On Magmar, you can try fitting Glare in the set, over Dragon Pulse. Glare can cripple anything that is brave enough to switch into Magmar or Unaware Pokémon such as Munchlax x Quagsire. Focus Blast is an option for coverage and missing a lot.
lightninging
I would suggest something like Archen -> Noivern in place of Deoxys Speed, with a statspread of 100/152/100/126/85/138 vs Deoxys' 50/95/90/95/90/180.
Deoxys has the upper hand when it comes to speed but Archen's 138 is still extremely fast and outspeeds most of the meta. Even with max HP investment, Deoxys is still considerably frailer than Archen, while Archen can invest in its high 152 attack making it much more threatening. Movepool wise, Archen gets the same stealth rocks as Deoxys and also inherits Taunt from Noivern, while also having access to Defog
Alright guys since we need some sample teams i'm gonna do a quick RMT. I've built a bare bones HO team with Deo-S as a suicide lead and Scyther x Gyarados as my late game sweeper of choice. Gyarados is 100% broke. Scyther might be too. Regardless, I recommend you abuse em while you can. Without further ado, here's the squad.
This is a barebones HO lead i stole straight my Ubers. It does its job and it does it well. The only problem is that anything can be a magic bouncer, and the meta hasnt settled well enough for you to know whether or not your opp has something that's a cross evo of espeon. EVs are for speed (highly important) and bulk (this thing still has mediocre bulk). 95% of the time you just let it be killed. Honedge can be a good anti lead, so be careful; mind games can ensue as to whether or not its gonna swords dance or shadow sneak. Even at +2 its easily revenged, but it's still a pain. Skill Swap and Magic Coat are basically gimmicks, but they're highly effective gimmicks. Magic Coat every single prankster mon you see.
Breloom (Sneasel) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Spore
This guy is absolutely amazing. With the given EVs, it hits approximately 470 attack and 440 speed. I run dual prio plus knock off to serve as a good revenge killer. Ice shard 1 shots MegaMence even without stab, and its clean too. Even bulker mence's die after SR. Spore lets you sleep anything you cant 1 shot. All magic bouncers are at psychic typed, so Knock Off usually KOs. Tangela can take any 1 hit, but knock off does a large chunk.
After 1 or 2 boosts, this thing is nearly unwallable. Overheat is a very spammable stab, and leaf storm provides good coverage alongside it. Dragon pulse is mostly filler tbh, it theoretically hits Latis and Reshirams and stuff but idk how useful it is. On the upside, it wont miss, unlike freakin overheat + leaf storm (i swear 90% acc isnt what it used to be). HP Ice nails a lot of drag cross evos, especially rhyhorn x drag. It also kills mega mence. This thing is reasonably fast, but its power is underwhelming without a boost. However, bring it in on something it can hit for SE damage, and after that first hit you're in business. Very good, much power.
Not gonna lie, I stole this set straight from the OP. Yall should know what it does. You boost up your speed and attack while the opposition tries and fails to dent you, then spam coverage as appropriate. Close Combat is very powerful. Gear Grind isnt that powerful imo (however ive been using it without STAB which would def make a difference). Knock Off spam is spammable, knockin stuff off is always fun.
volcarona (Tangela) @ Miracle Seed
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Quiver Dance
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Energy Ball
- Sleep Powder
Tangela is suprisingly bulky and also surprsingly fast. While sleep powder misses abt 50% of the time, it lets you win the other 50%. Quiver Dance lets you boost TF up and kill shit. Basically just spam energy ball and use HP ice on grass/flying/dragon types (ie rhyhorn x drag, my mortal enemy). Fire Blast/Fiery Dance are also options, but I dont like em as much. Flame Body lets you hax stuff (every good team needs hax!!!).
THIS THING IS BROKEN. Ban Gyarados for sure, Scyther maybe idk. That being said, it does have some lousy STABs; aerial ace is crap, and X-Scissor isn't exactly spammable either. EQ is good coverage at least. With Moxie you boost easily and can basically just walk through entire teams. PLEASE BAN THIS. Waterfall is also an option, but its prolly inferior to EQ. Basically, when most of your opponents team is weakened, sack something (this is HO after all), and bring in this beast. Boost up in the face of your oppoition (tbh you only really need 1 DD, but 2 is usually achievable). Then kill everyone.
lightninging
I would suggest something like Archen -> Noivern in place of Deoxys Speed, with a statspread of 100/152/100/126/85/138 vs Deoxys' 50/95/90/95/90/180.
Deoxys has the upper hand when it comes to speed but Archen's 138 is still extremely fast and outspeeds most of the meta. Even with max HP investment, Deoxys is still considerably frailer than Archen, while Archen can invest in its high 152 attack making it much more threatening. Movepool wise, Archen gets the same stealth rocks as Deoxys and also inherits Taunt from Noivern, while also having access to Defog
Whimsicott (Cranidos) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Head Smash
- Memento
Thanks to Prankster it is "faster" than Deoxys-S and has 2 ways of generating momentum in Head Smash (killing itself after it has been brought down to Sash), which hits like a truck, and Memento, which allows any of your set-up sweepers to set-up and wreck the opposing team. No Skill Swap nor Magic Coat though, so Deoxys-S still has a niche.
While I do like the suggestions regarding the lead, I'm prolly gonna stick with Deo S thanks to it's sheer utility. Magic Coat and Skill Swap all but ensure I get SR up, while Archen and Crani are both stopped fast by magic bounce or a faster (possibly prankster) taunt.
edit: all bugs appear to be fixed!
Also; regular ubers are still REALLY GOOD. So far i've been using almost exclusively cross evos, but I just smashed dsm with a bare bones HO team, consisting of 5 ubers + cloyster. admittedly, cloyster was basically 100% a cteam of his deoS lead, but still, the point stands; dont forget about regular ubers when teambuilding, both in terms of theats to include and threats to prepare for. here's a quick replay of what i mean: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-crossevolution-14726
Anyway, just in case this post hadnt been edited enough times already, I'm gonna throw out the second team I've built for this meta, a surprisingly effective balance team relying on the incredible balk of doublade x drag and swirlix x milotic.
Sleep Spam Balance by Lightninging:
Dragonite (Doublade) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Iron Head
- Pursuit/Shadow Sneak/Shadow Claw
This guy is one of the stars of this team. His physical bulk is genuinely incredible, and thanks to its wonderful steel/flying type, it completely counters every scyther set ive seen yet. In case you couldn't tell by the slashes, I have no idea what to stick in the final slot. Suggestions would be appreciated. This thing is my main physical wall, and can even take on some special attackers.
Breloom (Sneasel) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Ice Shard
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
Spore is OP. You guys have seen him before, he was just too good not to use again. revenges MegaMence, sleeps stuff so you win, knocks stuff off, etc. Basic wallbreaker and revengekiller mixed into one slot.
chandelure (Chansey) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast/Eruption
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Aromatherapy
With several team members weak to fire, flash fire chansey seemed like a good choice. It does almost all of the things regular chansey does, just with a smidge of offensive presence. It still walls the majority of special attackers. Plus, its got better physical balk than usual, so dont be afraid to switch it into potentially mixed attackers.
Chansey (Tangela) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain/ Fire Blast
- Soft-Boiled
This thing is a decent spdef wall with access to sleep powder (sleep spam is the best in this meta), reliable recovery, and SR. Its basically a better chansey. Okay maybe not but its still good but sleep powder misses a lot so maybe its not good. IDK. Considering fire blast over giga to nail steels who think they wall me.
This was OG swirlix, but it was switched to spritzee on account of just barely better stats. It's balk while asleep is amazing. Without crits, it can set up on a solid 85% of the metagame. After 1 or 2 CMs, its basically unbreakable. While resttalk might seem dumb when it can learn recover, being asleep activates marvel scale...making it even balkier!!! plus fairy is a gr8 type.
I originally had archen x gyara here, but its just too slow to be good. So, back to this classic beast we go. The only thing ive found that counters it is doublade x drag. Other than that, tho, this thing ruins lives. Its an alternate wincon to swirlix and is a good offensive check to grass types and steels. also its broken.
While I do like the suggestions regarding the lead, I'm prolly gonna stick with Deo S thanks to it's sheer utility. Magic Coat and Skill Swap all but ensure I get SR up, while Archen and Crani are both stopped fast by magic bounce or a faster (possibly prankster) taunt.
edit: all bugs appear to be fixed!
Also; regular ubers are still REALLY GOOD. So far i've been using almost exclusively cross evos, but I just smashed dsm with a bare bones HO team, consisting of 5 ubers + cloyster. admittedly, cloyster was basically 100% a cteam of his deoS lead, but still, the point stands; dont forget about regular ubers when teambuilding, both in terms of theats to include and threats to prepare for. here's a quick replay of what i mean: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-crossevolution-14726
Anyway, just in case this post hadnt been edited enough times already, I'm gonna throw out the second team I've built for this meta, a surprisingly effective balance team relying on the incredible balk of doublade x drag and swirlix x milotic.
Sleep Spam Balance by Lightninging:
Dragonite (Doublade) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Iron Head
- Pursuit/Shadow Sneak/Shadow Claw
This guy is one of the stars of this team. His physical bulk is genuinely incredible, and thanks to its wonderful steel/flying type, it completely counters every scyther set ive seen yet. In case you couldn't tell by the slashes, I have no idea what to stick in the final slot. Suggestions would be appreciated. This thing is my main physical wall, and can even take on some special attackers.
Breloom (Sneasel) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Ice Shard
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
Spore is OP. You guys have seen him before, he was just too good not to use again. revenges MegaMence, sleeps stuff so you win, knocks stuff off, etc. Basic wallbreaker and revengekiller mixed into one slot.
chandelure (Chansey) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast/Eruption
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Aromatherapy
With several team members weak to fire, flash fire chansey seemed like a good choice. It does almost all of the things regular chansey does, just with a smidge of offensive presence. It still walls the majority of special attackers. Plus, its got better physical balk than usual, so dont be afraid to switch it into potentially mixed attackers.
Chansey (Tangela) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain/ Fire Blast
- Soft-Boiled
This thing is a decent spdef wall with access to sleep powder (sleep spam is the best in this meta), reliable recovery, and SR. Its basically a better chansey. Okay maybe not but its still good but sleep powder misses a lot so maybe its not good. IDK. Considering fire blast over giga to nail steels who think they wall me.
THIS THING IS GOD. It's balk while asleep is amazing. Without crits, it can set up on a solid 85% of the metagame. After 1 or 2 CMs, its basically unbreakable. While resttalk might seem dumb when it can learn recover, being asleep activates marvel scale...making it even balkier!!! plus fairy is a gr8 type.
I originally had archen x gyara here, but its just too slow to be good. So, back to this classic beast we go. The only thing ive found that counters it is doublade x drag. Other than that, tho, this thing ruins lives. Its an alternate wincon to swirlix and is a good offensive check to grass types and steels. also its broken.
I'll also post a core made by lightninging which is already on the team (missing Mega Salamence tho) on detail, because it is really good:
Basic SFD. Each mon in detail:
Dragonite (Doublade) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Iron Head
- Toxic / Shadow Sneak / Shadow Claw
- Roar / Haze / Defog
Skarmory 2.0. This thing counters a lot of common threats (for example Scyther, most Gyara stuff, DD Mega Salamence). It is the best Scyther x Gyarados hard stop, not fearing even boosted moves, and being able to Toxic it, phaze it or just hit it with Iron Head. Speaking of Iron Head, it is weak af, but it is the best thing you can get offensively.
Milotic (Swirlix) @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Comparing it to standard metagames, this thing is Mega Audino 2.0. Or 3.0. Seriously bulk is ridiculous, abusing Marvel Scale with the RestTalk combo. Yeah this means you only have to 3HKO it to avoid being Rest-looped, but find something that can 3HKO it. It is almost impossible without a super-effective move, let alone after a boost. Crits are definitely Swirlix's worse nightmare. Fairy-type is also nice, being one of the best types defensively while offensively nothing is immune to it which is great on a mono-attacker set like this.
Spritzee can run a similar set, both Swirlix and Spritzee are so close stat-wise that I can't tell which is better.
EDIT: Use Spritzee, same set with Moonblast > Dazzling Gleam
Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Return / Facade / Double-Edge
- Earthquake / Refresh / Fire Blast
Mega Salamence is (almost?) as good as it is in Ubers and it is very underprepared for rn. It switches into Fire-types that both Doublade and Swirlix hate (Magmar x Serperior I think it is the most dangerous Pokémon to this core, beating Doublade and Swirlix easily, Salamence can't switch after boosts). Fire Blast is there to hit Doublade x Dragonite, another nightmare for the core, or you can let teammates handle it for you. The rest is straightforward, DD, sweep, just like in Ubers. Scyther being so common is also a great thing for Salamence, which can set-up in the face of DD Gyarados sets (without many boosts) and then OHKO it with Flying STAB.
This core has no hazard setter/remover if you forgo Defog on Doublade, and it is weak to Magmar x Serperior while Doublade x Dragonite ironically walls it entirely. Good teambuilding is needed to beat them and to get hazards to a team based around this core.
I have discovered why megamence is so good in this meta... so long as you keep it with the default nickname of "salamence", it cross evos with itself, granting it massive stat boosts. this works with any pokemon that can normally evolve. For instance, adamant breloom hits 592 attack...aka what it would hit with 220 base attack. Basically, mence seems OP bc it is. urkerab pls help us again
PS yall are lucky i mentioned this... i coulda just kept quiet and obliterated everyone with my new blaziken/megamence team.
PPS For some reason blaziken doesnt get boosted...honestly i have no clue whats up with this bug.
