SM Ubers Cruel Sea. [#4 +1800]

[Hacci]

CRUEL SEA | 雑談

INTRODUCTION | 音声
~ Before, as always, welcome everyone to my second but not least Ubers team. I hope you like it and its even better than the last one. Well, one major difference is that it coincided with Marshadow's departure. Curiously, this pokemon can be dangerous, but it is controllable. Taking a deeper approach, and as you see at the entrance, everything is based on Mega Gyarados, i honestly think its an interesting mon that has good presence above all vs stalls. Its a great wallbreaker and also eliminate threats like Lunala, which is like the fourth best mon of the tier. The team in its build phase looked like a monocolor, but it look shape until it was solid. Going to the part of the story, not only appears random encounters in ladder, there is also a small participation in official tournaments as the slam. I think it has been one of my best teams in what is the current generation (SM) and although it has not been a promising way, in the ladder points system led me to the top 4 with +1800 points. Since the time of oras he had not remembered that feeling. Finally i say that i have tried to put this as complete as possible and choosing well to say.

THE TEAM | 会話

Dialga @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Fire Blast

The reason for Dialga is because it allows me to take Stealth Rock and break Sash skills or users. Also a good response to Kyogre. It has great coverage, like Fire Blast for everything called Scizor / Ferrothorn. Draco Meteor + Dragonium Z for defensive monsters or to eliminate things that otherwise not. Toxic would be another option that can be taken into account, but this has paid me well. Flash Cannon for fairys (Arceus and Xerneas)

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Taunt
- Aqua Tail

Dragon Dance to increase attack against offensive or defensive teams. Taunt on Sub because it allows me to disable passive monsters that try to recover or status moves. Crunch your stab Dark to Lunala / Solgaleo. One of the dangers of this mon is undoubtedly his ability. Finally Aqua Tail instead of Waterfall because it allows me to eliminate being Adamant +1 to Ho-Oh or Groundceus.

Xerneas @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Aromatherapy
- Thunder

This is another of the new changes. Meditating well I have believed this very timely as the Arceus type. Scarf Xern on the set Geo by the list of threats and that allows me to have a better match up vs HO. Eliminating mons like any version of Marsh. Thunder is an answer for Ho-Oh / Kyogre or Steela for example. Aromatherapy as status support. FBlast for Ferrothorn, a classic.

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Atk / 52 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Toxic
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake

Ho-Oh is one of my favorites. So much so that I practically include it in all my teams and makes them look more solid. It all depends on how the team is, so I thought of a quirky CB version with Toxic for wearing mons bulkys as Arceus shapes. Everything else is obvious, Sacred Fire its Fire stabl par excellence for Steels and Brave Bird for Grass type or get good damage. Finally EQ for PDon or Ttar among others.

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 48 Atk / 252 SpA / 144 SpD / 64 Spe
Mild Nature
- Rock Polish
- Fire Blast
- Precipice Blades
- Hidden Power Ice

If you want to reach the path of victory, PDon can not miss here. On this occasion I have considered that your Rock Polish version is the best. Great speed increase and access to good moves like your stab Fire Blast and Hp Ice for dragons like Zygarde / Rayquaza / Salamence and even Flygon. Precipice Blades for Blissey o Kyogre

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 176 HP / 140 Def / 192 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Stone Edge
- Defog
- Recover

With this change the team gains answer to face offensive threats like Diancie, Marsh or Lucario. Apart from being good PDon check and Stone surprise factor for Ho-Oh since otherwise I would stay a little weak to something so common. Taking it with that Nature can compensate and may also be a turning point, but it is a change that was important. Well, it has the same role as support with Defog.


PEAK | 手話

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IMPORTABLE | 弁論

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Dialga @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Fire Blast

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Taunt
- Aqua Tail

Xerneas @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Aromatherapy
- Thunder

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Atk / 52 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Toxic
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 48 Atk / 252 SpA / 144 SpD / 64 Spe
Mild Nature
- Rock Polish
- Fire Blast
- Precipice Blades
- Hidden Power Ice

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 176 HP / 140 Def / 192 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Stone Edge
- Defog
- Recover

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[Stoward]

Hey! It's a cool looking team you've got there! I certainly find the amount of attention that Mega Gyarados has been getting in ubers rather interesting, and I always have a soft spot for Choice Band Ho-oh.

I have noticed that this team certainly has its struggles, especially against Xerneas, which if it gets to +2 is capable of destroying your entire team, which can be shown below: Also although you say that Dialga is your Kyogre Check, with the current EV spread that you have, it is 2hko'd by Origin Pulse, and essentially, Kyogre has the chance to 2hko or ohko your entire team. Also I've noticed that your team would struggle significantly since Marshadow, especially Bulk up Marshadium Z who at +1 has a chance to ohko your entire team. Ho-oh could also be seen as a potential problem, since your Primal Groudon isn't running any rock coverage, Mega Gyarados has a 50% chance to get burned by Sacred Fire and if that were to happen, the mon would be rendered useless, and since Arceus-Water isn't running any water coverage, this means that Ho-oh is completely unphased, as it takes minimal damage from Ice Beam. All of these statements have been demonstrated in the calcs below. That being said though, I have a few suggestions that could help you deal with those match-ups, and improve the team in general.

Xerneas calcs

Primal Groudon
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 144 SpD Groudon-Primal: 271-319 (79.4 - 93.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 144 SpD Groudon-Primal: 213-251 (62.4 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Dialga
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 456-537 (112.8 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ho-oh
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Ho-Oh: 362-428 (87.2 - 103.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Gyarados-Mega
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 726-854 (219.3 - 258%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Arceus-Water
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water: 390-459 (87.8 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water: 452-534 (101.8 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Xerneas
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 72 HP / 100 SpD Fairy Aura Xerneas: 417-492 (101.4 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Kyogre calcs

Primal Groudon
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 144 SpD Groudon-Primal: 948-1116 (278 - 327.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (weather was ignored, since calc in heavy rain was unnecessary) However I do admit that Kyogre only does about 40% to groudon if the Harsh Sunlight is up
Dialga
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dialga in Heavy Rain: 189-223 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO
Ho-oh
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Ho-Oh: 344-408 (82.8 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gyarados-Mega
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 270-318 (81.5 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Arceus-Water
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water: 288-340 (64.8 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Xerneas
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 72 HP / 100 SpD Xerneas in Heavy Rain: 348-411 (84.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Marshadow calcs

Primal Groudon
+1 252 Atk Marshadow Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Groudon-Primal: 342-403 (100.2 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Dialga
+1 252 Atk Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dialga: 488-576 (120.7 - 142.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Ho-oh
+1 252 Atk Marshadow Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 507-597 (122.1 - 143.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Gyarados-Mega
+1 252 Atk Marshadow Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados-Mega: 528-624 (159.5 - 188.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Arceus Water
+1 252 Atk Marshadow Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Arceus-Water: 322-381 (72.5 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Xerneas
+1 252 Atk Marshadow Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 484-571 (117.7 - 138.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Ho-oh calcs

Primal Groudon
252+ SpA Groudon-Primal Fire Blast vs. 224 HP / 72 SpD Ho-Oh in Harsh Sunshine: 107-126 (26.1 - 30.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Dialga
136+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dialga: 185-218 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 43% chance to 2HKO
Ho-oh
136+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dialga: 185-218 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 43% chance to 2HKO
Gyarados-Mega
252 Atk Mold Breaker burned Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 163-193 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
136+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados-Mega: 239-282 (72.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
Arceus Water
0 SpA Arceus-Water Ice Beam vs. 224 HP / 72 SpD Ho-Oh: 50-59 (12.2 - 14.4%) -- possible 7HKO

Xerneas
252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 224 HP / 72 SpD Ho-Oh: 174-206 (42.5 - 50.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

MAJOR CHANGES

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Arceus Ground provides you with a significantly better match-up vs Offensive Primal Groudon (Especially Double Dance), since Waterceus basically ends up being setup fodder,and you can only hope to wear it down with toxic and your only hope is to try and outplay it. I also feel like you're going to have better synergy with the rest of your team, since your team is definitely offensive, and Arceus Water tends to belong on more defensive teams, such as balance or stall. The set that I had in mind (although it might not be the most conventional, is:

Arceus-Ground Set

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 176 HP / 140 Def / 192 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Stone Edge
- Defog
- Recover

The speed EVs Mega Lucario and the 140 Def + 176 HP is so that you can comfortably tank a Precipice Blades from Offensive Primal Groudon. Judgement is Arceus' main STAB move, which allows you to check Groudon as well as the majority of the other entry hazard setters in the tier such as Dialga, Klefki, Tyranitar, Excadrill, and Toxapex. Stone Edge is a lure for Ho-oh, since if a non-negative nature is set, it has a chance to OHKO it. Defog is to remove hazards which helps your Ho-oh's longevity and Recover helps keep your Groundceus healthy. If you don't like the drop in SpD, a Timid Nature is acceptable, but you lose the chance to OHKO Ho-oh from full. That being said though, running Ice Beam allows you to punish Mega Salamence, Rayquaza and Giratina, however you do already have checks to those, so it depends on what you wish to hit harder.

MINOR CHANGES

Roar>Fire Blast. Roar stops you from being Xerneas setup fodder, since Flash Cannon doesn't help much since Dialga is slow and hits Xerneas after its boosted its special defense, and then it can OHKO in return with Moonblast. Fire Blast also doesn't exactly feel like a necessity when you have mons like Ho-oh and Primal Groudon to deal with Ferrothorn.
EVs: 240 HP / 168 SpA / 100 SpD This essentially allows you to deal with Kyogre better, since you're no longer 2HKO'd by Origin Pulse, yet you are still able to 2HKO it with Devastrating Drake + Draco Meteor, or if you wish you can phase it out with Roar.

EVs: 248 HP / 208 Atk / 52 SpD While this might seem minimal, these EVS allow you to tank a Thunder from a +2 Xerneas, which considering how I mentioned that your team was pretty weak to it, that should definitely help improve your matchup vs that mon.

Dual Dance>Mixed Rock Polish
The set I've provided you with allows you to have more of an offensive presence and a better , but stops the majority of your team losing to Arceus Water as well as stops your Primal Groudon from losing to the majority of opposing Primal Groudons.

Primal Groudon Set

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 168 HP / 240 Atk / 36 SpD / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Precipice Blades
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge

Choice Scarf>Geoxern
While Geoxern is arguably the best setup sweeper in the game, you already have two solid win-cons with Dual Dance Primal Groudon and Mega Gyarados. This also allows you to be able to deal with Marshadow, which considering that the only way that you were able to deal with it before was by just giving it enough offensive pressure so that it doesn't set up, I believe that this is a solid upgrade. It also gives you solid speed control, which allows you to be able to surprise kill mons that would otherwise think that they can punish it before it sets up. The set I had in mind ran Moonblast which is xern's highly spammable STAB move, Focus Blast for steel types, Aromatherapy, which can help if your win conditions get statused and Thunder which is basically just for Ho-oh, but being able to punish that mon is always nice. It also hits Kyogre pretty hard, which this team struggles with.

Xern Set

Xerneas @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Aromatherapy
- Thunder

Also just so you have an idea of what the team would look like with all the changes:

Importable with changes

Dialga @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP / 168 SpA / 100 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Roar

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Taunt
- Aqua Tail

Xerneas @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Aromatherapy
- Thunder

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Atk / 52 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 168 HP / 240 Atk / 36 SpD / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Precipice Blades
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 176 HP / 140 Def / 192 Spe
Naive Nature
- Judgment
- Stone Edge
- Defog
- Recover

Anyway, I really did enjoy rating this team. I hope you enjoy using the changes that I made and if you have any further questions, feel free to ask :)

 

[Hacci]

Thanks for the rate man.
I really appreciate your help, good input. Now, I think I will only raise the change from Arceus-Water <Groundceus. With this I will not be so weak to Lucario / Diancie for example. The idea of Stone I like, as it may surprise Ho-oh and so the team is not disadvantaged.

 

[Minority]

In general I think 3017 offered some good detailing work to help account for your threatlist + some other things without changing any Pokemon. Using this team I'd like more / better counterplay options vs. a few offensive threats such as SD P Don, SD Arceus, Geo Xern, and SE Mega Luke. Basically these weaknesses exist because the team isn't offensive enough to completely deny free setup, while its defensive synergy isn't tight enough to have super strong checks to all of them. The fact that this team has basically no revenge KO options (fastest mon is a mid speed Arc) contributes to this.

3017's rate addresses a few of these things. They suggest using an Arc Ground, which gives much better options vs. SD P Don and SE Mega Luke. What this does is (potentially) open things up vs. Ho-Oh and P Ogre, although with this change the team still has Water, Fire, and Flying resists, so it's workable. The Scarf Xern gives the team a fastmon, actually giving you some options to revenge KO stuff and better matchup vs. HO, which frequently run the type of mons that this team can struggle against. Ho-Oh EV change actually lets you tank a Thunder from Geo Xern semi-consistently, although I'd argue the team's ability to dispose of SR from good offensive teams might be the larger issue here.

While their rate addresses some of the problems, I think a minor structure change is needed to really get more comfortable coverage for these threats. Dialga and somewhat Mega Gyara feel far too limited in what utility they provide for this particular team, considering the weaknesses they add. Of the four offensive Pokemon I cited as concerns, Dialga not only fails to check any of them, but is extraordinarily weak to them. In terms of defensive utility in this instance, Mega Gyara isn't quite as bad, but it doesn't do much more than Intimidate physical sweepers / breakers it can't actually check and function as a Ghost resist that can't actually switch into Ghosts under most circumstances.

In short, I think the structure should be adjusted such that Dialga is replaced with a new Steel (one that actually checks Geo Xern and / or SD Arc), SR reallocated, and / or swap out Mega Gyara. Some structures I'd experiment with are:

1. P Don / Ho-Oh / Xerneas / Arceus-Ground / Dialga / Marshadow
2. P Don / Ho-Oh / Xerneas / Arceus-Water / Bronzong / Mega Gyarados
3. P Don / Ho-Oh / Xerneas / Arceus-Water / Mega Scizor / Landorus-T

First covers SD Arc much better via Marsh, it provides something that can revenge kill stuff, and with Arc-Ground is much better vs. SD P Don, SE Mega Luke, and Mega Diancie. Second covers Geo Xern much better via Bronzong, which also checks SD Arc Ground, and sets SR. Between Bronzong, Mega Gyara, and Arc Water you've got a few more options vs. SD P Don when compared to Dialga. Third covers Geo Xern much better with Mega Scizor, and provides priority + U-Turn (way better at managing your momentum). Lando-T gives more options to check SD Arc and SD P Don (also potentials with SR / U-Turn).

The nature of the build becomes very different if you swap out Ho-Oh for like a Mega Mence, or if Xern is replaced, which is why I kept the four core mons all the same. All of the structures I provided keep this team true to BO, and one is able to keep Mega Gyara. Good luck with the team.

 

[Hacci]

Done. Thanks.