Doubles OU Roles Compendium

[talkingtree]

Taking over from Arcticblast | Special thanks to n10sit and Stratos for helping out | Art idea by Yoda2798, made by Pastelle

This compendium contains basic roles that should be fulfilled by any competitive Doubles OU Team, as well as a few that are more team-specific. Under each role will be an array of Pokemon that could satisfy it, sorted into solid and shaky performers of the listed role. In the case that a role is split into sub-roles, the solid vs shaky categories will refer to how well the given Pokemon performs the larger role - not the sub-role. If there is a Pokemon that is not listed in a role it should be or vice versa, feel free to post about it and this post may be edited to fit your recommendation. Although the lists will roughly be in viability order, this is not the place for discussion on each individual Pokemon's viability - that belongs in either the General Discussion Thread or the Viability Rankings Thread. Exceptions can, however, be made for the case where you believe a Pokemon is listed in the incorrect category. Having this visual cue will hopefully aid people in building better and also more diverse teams and allow anyone to find that one last filler they need for a team.

Only Pokemon found on the Viability Rankings Thread will be included in this list - although Lanturn could check Talonflame and Thundurus, it is otherwise not viable and so should not be used to fulfill those roles.


Crucial Roles
At least one Pokemon from each of these should be on each Doubles OU team in order to have a decent chance of winning against any playstyle. If a team contains no Pokemon from the "Solid" section, the team is likely weak to the specified threat. However, these roles are more a guide than an overarching framework - there are still many ways to fulfill all these roles that would result in a bad or unbalanced team.

Landorus-T Checks:
Solid:

Shaky:

Mega Kangaskhan Checks:
Solid:

Shaky:

Mega Kangskhan Switchins:
Solid:

Shaky:

Mega Diancie Checks:
Solid:

Shaky:

Talonflame Checks:
Solid:

Shaky:

Heatran Checks:
Solid:

Shaky:

Thundurus Checks:
Solid:

Shaky:

Pixilate Hyper Voice Checks:
Solid:

Shaky:

Sleep Checks:
Solid:

Shaky:

Rain Checks:
Solid:

Shaky:

Sun Checks:
Solid:

Shaky:

Trick Room Checks:
Taunt: (Solid)

(Shaky)

Fake Out: (Solid)

(Shaky)

Sleep: (Solid)

(Shaky)

Strong Dark/Ghost: (Solid)

(Shaky)

Strong Priority: (Solid)

Substitute Steel: (Solid)

(Shaky)

Reset TR: (Solid)

(Shaky)

Misc: (Solid)

(Shaky)

Kyurem-B Substitute Bait (MAXIMUM one on each team if possible):
Can't Punish:

Situationally Punishes:

Speed Control Users:
Thunder Wave/Glare/Nuzzle: (Solid)

(Shaky)

Tailwind: (Solid)

(Shaky)

Trick Room: (Solid)

(Shaky)

Icy Wind: (Solid)

(Shaky)

Quash: (Shaky)

Attack Control:
(Solid) Intimidate:

(Shaky) Will-O-Wisp:

Snarl:

Priority / Choice Scarf Attackers:
Choice Scarf Users: (Solid)

(Shaky)

Priority Attackers: (Solid)

(Shaky)

Nonessential / Team-Specific Roles
These categories contain some of the roles you may be looking to assign, but that do not need to be on every team. This could either be due to the roles being playstyle-specific or simply because teams are able to function fairly well without the listed type of team member.

Spread Attackers:
Solid:

Shaky:

Redirection Support:
Solid:

Shaky:

Trick Room Attackers:
Solid:

Shaky:

Setup Attackers:
Solid:

Shaky:

Weather Abusers/Setters:
Rain: (Solid)

Sun: (Solid)

Hail: (Solid)

(Shaky)

Sand: (Shaky)

Utility Move Users:
Quick Guard: (Solid)

(Shaky)

Wide Guard: (Solid)

(Shaky)

Feint: (Solid)

(Shaky)

Encore: (Solid)

(Shaky)

 

[clius]

toed is scarf but not rachi? :<

 

[Bughouse]

Most of these categories were way too long for me to put in effort QCing. These are things i noticed in shorter categories though.

Entei in Pixillate checks

TR checks:
Talonflame in Taunt
Sableye in Misc. (Quash mons to make them still go last)

Raikou, Porygon2, Togekiss in Kyu-B bait

Speed:
Ferrothorn in TWave
Hydreigon, Mew, Aerodactyl in Tailwind
Hoopa-U, Mega Diancie (alongside regular), Victini in Trick Room
Mew, Kyurem (regular with Glaciate) in Icy Wind
Take Blaziken out of Misc. It's a speed booster, not an opposing speed controller.

Aegislash, Breloom, Rotom-W, Excadrill, Hoopa-U in prio/scarfers

Team Specific:
Greninja in spread attacker
Talonflame in TR attacker
Calling Manaphy a rain abuser is a bit of a stretch as it's never found on rain teams...

 

[talkingtree]

Most of these categories were way too long for me to put in effort QCing. These are things i noticed in shorter categories though.

Entei in Pixillate checks Yep

TR checks:
Talonflame in Taunt Yep
Sableye in Misc. (Quash mons to make them still go last) Yep

Raikou, Porygon2, Togekiss in Kyu-B bait Raikou Snarls, P2 and Togekiss both break Sub (techincally 94% chance on Toge)

Speed:
Ferrothorn in TWave Yep
Hydreigon, Mew, Aerodactyl in Tailwind Mega Aero doesn't carry TW, regular Aero isn't ranked. Thought other two were there, oops
Hoopa-U, Mega Diancie (alongside regular), Victini in Trick Room Really thought Hoopa-U and Victini were there... maybe something copy/paste wise went wrong. Mega Diancie is not what I'd consider a viable TR setter though
Mew, Kyurem (regular with Glaciate) in Icy Wind Kyurem isn't on the VR so I'm not adding it, I'll add Mew though
Take Blaziken out of Misc. It's a speed booster, not an opposing speed controller. Tailwind is also a speed booster, not an opposing speed controller - I tend to think of it as pseudo TW but I'm curious to know what other people think.

Aegislash, Breloom, Rotom-W, Excadrill, Hoopa-U in prio/scarfers Really thought i had Breloom and Rotom-W there. Aegis has prio but not really strong enough prio to be considered a "priority attacker", especially since using Sneak leaves it very vulnerable. Excadrill and Hoopa-U will be added though.

Team Specific:
Greninja in spread attacker Forgot this one
Talonflame in TR attacker And this
Calling Manaphy a rain abuser is a bit of a stretch as it's never found on rain teams... I'll remove - don't know why it was there

Replies in bold - editing takes a little while because of finding the sprites but I'll get it done now

EDIT: Actually, Rotom-W was already in Scarfers
EDIT2: Porygon2 is dependent on Download boost, oops! Putting it in sub bait

 

[Bughouse]

Comments on most of the things where you disagreed (which is fair since I didn't explain any of my things). Won't argue the other ones, cuz they were the most shitty of the mons I suggested.

well if Raikou snarls, then so does Suicune. Heck Suicune uses Snarl a lot more often than Raikou does. Keep both or neither. idc which. As for the other 2 in that category, Toge is not staying in on Kyu-B, even if Air Slash does break sub, which is dependent entirely on Kyu-B's defensive investment. Bulkier Kyu-B Subs live Air Slash most of the time. And Porygon2 only breaks if it has +1 SpA from Download. Trace P2 is more common and does not break.

Mega Diancie is a somewhat viable TR user bc it can't be stopped by Taunt. Not super important, but I have seen it used (and used myself) this way before.

imo LO Aeg's Sneak is strong enough to be worth including.

 

[Stratos]

imo LO Aeg's Sneak is strong enough to be worth including.

4 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 87-105 (26.8 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

my dick is so hard right now

also togekiss isn't sub bait because you don't get guaranteed subs on it, simple as, sure kiss is losing to cube but at least it doesn't lose and the cube has a sub up

 

[talkingtree]

Adding Raikou and P2 to sub-bait

I wanna hear from more people before deciding on Mega Diancie as a TR setter, and Aegis as a prio attacker. I'm not really sold on either as of right now.

 

[Ray Majore]

I wanna hear from more people before deciding on Mega Diancie as a TR setter, and Aegis as a prio attacker. I'm not really sold on either as of right now.

In my perspective Mega Diancie may not be as viable as a TR setter, but who knows? It's smth undiscovered.

 

[thinkin]

id remove gyarados and both rhydon and rhyperior from kangascan checks since they switch in on pup, die next turn so nothing back to kang. the same way we dont concider cresselia a check even tho it could take two returns
kyurem b isnt a diancie check there is no point in listing shitty lures
azumarill doesnt check talonflame the same way kangascan doesnt
landoi isnt a pixalate check. cant ohko sylv, while its not able to switch in
mawile is a viable tr atacker
you could add volcarona to tailwind setters
latias is a decent sun check, the recover set is big
manaphy isnt a sleep check, you can slap goggles on any bulky mon, still looses to venu
gyarados doesnt check diancie in any way

 

[Arcticblast]

Chesnaught isn't the greatest Kang switchin tbh

Taunt Talon worst Talon

Remove Suicune and Raikou from Sub bait, a -2 Kyurem-B is just a shitty freeze hax machine

Porygon2 as well, Foul Play always breaks Sub iirc

TWave Ferro is a gimped Ferro but I guess it works on some teams

 

[talkingtree]

id remove gyarados and both rhydon and rhyperior from kangascan checks since they switch in on pup, die next turn so nothing back to kang. the same way we dont concider cresselia a check even tho it could take two returns
kyurem b isnt a diancie check there is no point in listing shitty lures
azumarill doesnt check talonflame the same way kangascan doesnt
landoi isnt a pixalate check. cant ohko sylv, while its not able to switch in
mawile is a viable tr atacker
you could add volcarona to tailwind setters
latias is a decent sun check, the recover set is big
manaphy isnt a sleep check, you can slap goggles on any bulky mon, still looses to venu
gyarados doesnt check diancie in any way

Rhyperior and Rhydon and Gyarados are not in Kangaskhan Checks - they're in Switchins. The important part to note there is that they can switch in on most of Kang's attacks and not take much damage - the most common Utility Gyarados set takes two Kang Double Edges, and Intimidates Kang, making it less of a threat.

Scarf Kyurem-B isn't a "shitty lure", it's a fairly common and definitely viable set.

Azumarill on a TR team outspeeds and KOes Talon. In addition to that, even an Azu at 75% can take a Brave Bird and KO back with Aqua Jet. It's not a *fantastic* check, but it definitely is one.

I'll remove Lando-I

Mega Mawile is not on the VR, thus it won't be on this list.

I'll add Volcarona

I'll add Mega Latias

Goggles Manaphy is a decently common set and if it is set up, it KOes all three of the sleep users. It's towards the end of the list because it is a shaky sleep check, but I'd still consider it one.

Gyarados takes two Diamond Storms with Sitrus recovery and usually OHKOs back with Waterfall. It's a check.

Chesnaught isn't the greatest Kang switchin tbh

Taunt Talon worst Talon

Remove Suicune and Raikou from Sub bait, a -2 Kyurem-B is just a shitty freeze hax machine

Porygon2 as well, Foul Play always breaks Sub iirc

TWave Ferro is a gimped Ferro but I guess it works on some teams

I put Chesnaught there because the set currently being written in analysis takes two Kang returns. I'll remove it though.

Taunt Talon is bad, but still somewhat viable. I'll move it to the end of the section.

Removing Cune and Raikou EDIT: Never mind, Lohgock just pointed out why I had them there.

Foul Play is a roll, and if the Kyube user remembered to zero out their Atk IVs, it does maximum 25.3%. So I'm gonna keep it there.

 

[Lohgock]

The role is defined as "Sub bait" , it doesn't matter what they're able to do after Kyurem grabs a Sub against them as long as they can't break it.

Something that caught my eye: I'd definitely not call a Ground-weak Mon "Lando-check" anytime soon even if it's not 2HKOd by double-target EQ. I doubt anyone ever said "I'm weak to Lando so let me add Rhydon to fix that issue"

 

[talkingtree]

The idea for Rhydon is that it's not 2HKOd by double-target EQ and it OHKOs back with Ice Punch. I will remove Rhyperior though, that probably shouldn't have been there in the first place.

EDIT: Just kidding I just did calcs and I totally remembered wrong. Because they can switch in on anything other than EQ and threaten with Ice Punch though, I'm gonna leave both in the section but just move them to the end.

 

[Platinum God n1n1]

I like this.

Swampert is a diancie check
Eviolite magmar is a better redirctor than volc

This could expand to cores as well
For example : diancie + Jirachi
Counter: amoongus + bisharp
Kingdra
Wide guard + talon

 

[talkingtree]

Regular swampert and Mega Swampert are both already under diancie checks, and magmar isn't on the VR so I won't be adding it.

Expanding to cores is an interesting idea - anyone else want to weigh in?

 

[Silverwhiteblue]

i aint too sure about enteir as talonflame and kangaskhan check. and i think breloom , bisharp and weavile would be interesting in terms of priority

edit : and is aegi not a strong ghost?

 

[talkingtree]

Entei can easily live a Brave Bird and OHKO back with Stone Edge - also takes very little from Flare Blitz, and can pick off weakened Talon with ExtremeSpeed. Put it in as a Kang check because of Sacred Fire Burns.

Both Breloom and Bisharp are already in Priority Attackers - I'll add Weavile though. EDIT: Lol never mind

 

[Stratos]

^ice shard isnt even standard i told u to remove weav dont even think about it bro

 

[megacyber]

can you organize each of the categories in some way like viability or something? as is, its a huge wall of sprites thats kinda a pain to sort through
edit: also maybe specifying scarf checks would be good cuz i looked at kyub in the diancie checks and i was all like wot? and then i was all like oh he prolly means scarf kyub
edit 2: this is good tho dont get me wrong

 

[talkingtree]

Everyone give a huge thanks to Pastelle for her incredible artwork, and Yoda2798 for his incredible puns that inspired it.

Also, I've inserted a "Discussion Points" hide tag at the bottom of the OP - just a way to get discussion going about how you want this compendium to proceed! Thanks so much for all the input so far, this has been great.

 

[zaaya]

Are BP Meta and ESPeed Deo relevant enough priority to add? Ig their use is pretty limited compared to the rest so ehh
I definitely agree expanding the thread with all the things brought up in the discussion points, good stuff here :)

 

[n10siT]

Are BP Meta and ESPeed Deo relevant enough priority to add? Ig their use is pretty limited compared to the rest so ehh
I definitely agree expanding the thread with all the things brought up in the discussion points, good stuff here :)

e speed deo is standard but bp metagross is definitely not, i wouldn't add that one to priority. Deo should be there IMO but i was overruled

 

[BlueSkiddo]

Not sure if it's relevant enough to add, but wide guard mega-aero is an okay pixilate check. sash bisharp also checks most pixilate users.

 

[n10siT]

Not sure if it's relevant enough to add, but wide guard mega-aero is an okay pixilate check. sash bisharp also checks most pixilate users.

would u rly build a team and be like "i have wide guard on mega aero, im good against sylv"

going down to sash/not being able to switch in is not a check

 

[megacyber]

add wide guard probopass to pixilate checks. magnetic jew rock must not be underestimated