Dream World Tier Discussion

[Phi]

Decisions made around the DW metagame are going to have no bearing on the tiering of Pokemon in the standard metagame, I'd wager. If Technician Breloom, for example, was released next week almost all experience of using him in DW will be moot because he has been competing in a metagame with Soul Dew Lati@s, Keldeo, Genosect, ST Chandelure, Lightning Rod Zapdos, yaddayaddayadda - you get the idea. It'd be unfair to ban him if you (hypothetically speaking) found him to be broken in your metagame so he'd need to be tested in the official metagame. It's unlikely that the metagame you play now will ever assimilate into the standard metagame because of the stunted rate at which Nintendo release new Pokemon.

Exactly. And on top of that, Dream World Chandelure is probably the most dubious of anything currently in Dream World OU of ever being released. Obviously Keldeo, Genesect and Meloetta are gonna premier as part of the inevitable movie promotion cycle of Gen V, and game freak's not gonna code something like Imposter Ditto that's awesome as balls and slick as butter and not release it. Remember, Gen IV lasted for like 4 years and I wouldn't be surprised with the huge amount of Pokemon game freak released and the amount of hidden content they wanted to drip out that we have another 4 years of sequels and rereleases coming up. But asides from stupid crap like Zen Mode Darmanitan, there's no indication of Dream World Unova Pokemon ever being released. While everything has appropriately flavorful abilities, a lot of them seem pretty much thrown on. Shadow Tag Chandelure might the equivalent of if we fought RBY with stuff like lvl 255 Golducks from the coast of cinnabar turned on (though actually for the metagame worse because those golducks couldn't do shit if you weren't in a link cable battle and thus actually had pretty bad stats cause they couldn't get stat exp.).
Also hilariously the fix to Shadow Tag in Gen IV to stop Wob vs. Wob makes Chandelure (as well as I guess Wob and Gothy Style Jynx though neither get anywhere near his usage) the only Pokemon he can't trap in the metagame.

 

[Matthew]

Hello friends! So (hopefully) by the end of tonight the following changes to the tier are going to be implemented:
Soul Dew banned
Excadrill allowed
Thundurus allowed

KD and I both decided it would be better to allow Chandelure for the time being. While the only change that I actually implemented to the tier (as Excadrill and Thundurus were never actually banned on the ladder). I'm going to start being more active on the ladder as a whole and I'm excited to see you guys there. Watch out in this thread for more updates and stuff from KD and I!

In other news Contrary Serperior is fucking amazing. The amount a resisted +4/6 Leaf Storm does to most pokemon is extremely daunting. I run Choice Scarf which may be a bit noob or whatever, but it's still pretty rad. Almost OHKOing Genesect at +4 was awesome.

 

[AfroThunderRule]

No Soul Dew is banned. D:

Oh well, it's for the best. ;-;

 

[TROP]

In other news Contrary Serperior is fucking amazing. The amount a resisted +4/6 Leaf Storm does to most pokemon is extremely daunting. I run Choice Scarf which may be a bit noob or whatever, but it's still pretty rad. Almost OHKOing Genesect at +4 was awesome.

Just curious, were you using Modest or Timid Serperior?.

 

[Molk]

about serperior, the fact that it lacks coverage out of hidden power makes it imo not broken, the serperior user has to be very careful if there is anyting that resists leaf storm and the coverage hidden power (i use fire) if you can predict and usesub you are golden but if you dont serperioriseasy to deal with.

 

[AfroThunderRule]

The best set I've used with Serperior is Leech Seed, Sub, Leaf Storm, HP Fire

It's basically a sub-seeder that can sweep. Me like it.

 

[Molk]

The best set I've used with Serperior is Leech Seed, Sub, Leaf Storm, HP Fire

It's basically a sub-seeder that can sweep. Me like it.

this is the set i use, it is effective, but not broken, seriously people complain about serperior? i do not get why.

 

[TROP]

The best set I've used with Serperior is Leech Seed, Sub, Leaf Storm, HP Fire

It's basically a sub-seeder that can sweep. Me like it.

I love this set,Keldeo and Tyranitar have worked great as partners for it allowing it to have a clear field to spam leaf storm or at least for me since the days I played DW in PO server.

 

[Lee]

I always used Substitute/Glare/Leaf Storm/HP Fire. I prefer Glare to Leech Seed to totally ruin the day of the things that resist Grass/Fire...think Lati@s and the other Dragons, Scarf Heatran, Blaziken (wasn't banned at the time I used this), Scarf Chandelure etc. Glare also allows him to set up his own sweep later in the game by coming out early-mid game and paralysing the switch-in (I found people would attempt to switch in a faster Pokemon as a slower Pokemon would have to face a Leaf Storm followed by a +2 attack and that's not easy to do).

Probably one of the best and easiest to use late game sweepers I've ever used.

 

[Spenstar]

Hello friends! So (hopefully) by the end of tonight the following changes to the tier are going to be implemented:
Soul Dew banned
Excadrill allowed
Thundurus allowed

KD and I both decided it would be better to allow Chandelure for the time being. While the only change that I actually implemented to the tier (as Excadrill and Thundurus were never actually banned on the ladder). I'm going to start being more active on the ladder as a whole and I'm excited to see you guys there. Watch out in this thread for more updates and stuff from KD and I!

In other news Contrary Serperior is fucking amazing. The amount a resisted +4/6 Leaf Storm does to most pokemon is extremely daunting. I run Choice Scarf which may be a bit noob or whatever, but it's still pretty rad. Almost OHKOing Genesect at +4 was awesome.

Soul Dew. You will be missed T_T now IDK what to do with my Latios! Aw well, I'll figure it out.

Contrary Serperior is extremely dangerous. If you don't beat it immediately, you're out of luck. I've swept entire teams with this beast, just one leaf storm after another. Who needs a movepool when you have such power in a single move? Of course, I never actually had one on my team. How did I sweep teams with it, then? Simple. As you said, very few Serperior run Choice Scarf. If I don't get to hax one down with Jirachi, I let Serperior KO one of my mons, bring in Scarf Ditto, get those contrary boosts, and sweep. Serperior is Ditto's best friend the same way Audino is every Pokemon trainer's best friend.

Of course, if you don't have Ditto, you may well be out of luck. But for me, when I play DW OU I always, ALWAYS save a slot for Ditto. It destroys things that are otherwise broken. When Blaziken was OU, Ditto was Blaziken's one true counter. Any ken without Protect is immediately screwed, and for ones with it, a move besides HJK will take him out anyway. When Manaphy was OU, I let her get to +6, switch in Ditto after a kill, and sweep. Shell Smash Cloyster, Quiver Dance Volcarona, Ditto destroyed them. If I lost a Calm Mind war to a Psyshock user or Keldeo, Ditto will avenge the loser. And don't even get me started on Moxie. Once I let a Moxie DD Gyarados sweep half my team to gather all the boosts to I could switch in Ditto and just pwn everything. Ditto sweeping... such a satisfying experience.

 

[Vemane]

Hello friends! So (hopefully) by the end of tonight the following changes to the tier are going to be implemented:
Soul Dew banned
Excadrill allowed
Thundurus allowed

KD and I both decided it would be better to allow Chandelure for the time being. While the only change that I actually implemented to the tier (as Excadrill and Thundurus were never actually banned on the ladder). I'm going to start being more active on the ladder as a whole and I'm excited to see you guys there. Watch out in this thread for more updates and stuff from KD and I!

In other news Contrary Serperior is fucking amazing. The amount a resisted +4/6 Leaf Storm does to most pokemon is extremely daunting. I run Choice Scarf which may be a bit noob or whatever, but it's still pretty rad. Almost OHKOing Genesect at +4 was awesome.

TY so much for soul dew

Don't know why it was there in first place :P

Time to abuse chandy to prove unhealthyness!

Scarf serperior is ridiculous... especially to clean up :P

 

[New World Order]

That Subseed Serperior is my personal favorite. Leech Seed the stuff it can't cover, spam Leaf Storm against everything else. But a set I feel is very underrated is Choice Specs Serperior. It already trolls base 111s and under, so you don't really need the extra speed, and a +2 Specs boosted Leaf Storm hits like a truck. If the opponent doesn't have a x4 resist or a faster poke. They're probably going to get swept. And even if Serperior can't pull off the sweep, the opponent will be battered enough for Volcrona or someone to finish the job. The only problem with Choice Specs is that once you're out of Leaf Storm pp, Serperior becomes sac fodder.

 

[November Blue]

I like to use Giga Drain (+ Leaf Storm) on my Serperior. It conserves Leaf Storms PP, heals any damage you've taken (which synergises well with Substitute) and allows you to switch in and set up multiple times.

Does Serp really need Specs? I'd imagine that Life Orb would give it more than enough power, and its other moves are too useful to give up.

How common is Snorlax as a Chandelure counter? It resists Fire Blast, is immune to Shadow Ball, and has the bulk to take Energy Balls and HP Fightings from the Scarf set. Adamant Banded Pursuit is a guaranteed OHKO on 0 HP / 4 Def Chandelure without Rocks.

 

[New World Order]

Countering Chandelure or not really doesn't matter. What makes it broken is the fact that you can't prevent what it does without crippling your pokemon. Yes, Snorlax will surely be able to take out Chandelure, but Snorlax isn't the one preventing a Terrakion sweep, Slowbro is. Chandelure's job is to remove Slowbro so that Terrakion can plow the team, Snorlax included. Once Slowbro is gone, the Chandelure user couldn't care less if you take it out. Similarly, there are tons of shit that can take out Chandelure, but good luck preventing Chandelure from doing its job.

 

[ssbbm]

To stop Chandelure from doing its job, you have to outplay it. That's the problem. It all comes down to whether or not you can double switch out of it into your pursuiter; if you can't, one of your Pokemon is dying. In a match with two equal players, the one with Chandelure will usually win as you need to consistently outplay a person with Chandelure to win while the person with Chandelure can basically make "mindless" plays.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

To stop Chandelure from doing its job, you have to outplay it. That's the problem. It all comes down to whether or not you can double switch out of it into your pursuiter; if you can't, one of your Pokemon is dying. In a match with two equal players, the one with Chandelure will usually win as you need to consistently outplay a person with Chandelure to win while the person with Chandelure can basically make "mindless" plays.

But we can't assume a "mindless" person is playing for these examples.
Even if you get your Pursuiter in, assuming no SR and no Choice Band(come on...getting locked into Pursuit with so many Fighters around is really sad), Chandy can survive and kill the Pursuiter back because IIRC, not even T-tar can OHKO with Pursuit if Chandy stays in and he gets 2HKO'd back by HP Fighting.
Snorlax, SR, Crunch, or Bust.
Oh wait, even if you use Crunch or CB Pursuit, you're still screwed when I switch in my Fighter and if you don't use either, my Chandelure just got out alive :L