[Doubles] Ferrothorn (QC 2/3) will write this weekend

[Mizuhime]

Ferrothorn

[Overview]

• Amazing defensive stats
• Good supporting options
• Great Defensive typing, only weak to 2 attacking moves and has many resists
• Does most work against teams that are Rain based
• 4x weak to fire and 2x weak to fighting
• Low speed stat (base 20) makes it good choice for trick room teams
• Iron barbs

[SET]

Name: Standard (subject for change)
Move 1: Leech Seed
Move 2: Protect
Move 3: Power Whip
Move 4: Gyro Ball / Thunder Wave
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Sassy
Evs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe

[Set Comments]

• Leech Seed acts as recovery, being able to drain health from both opponents
• Protect is not only used to avoid damage, but to leech extra damage
• Power Whip allows you to damage Water-, Rock- and Ground-Type Pokemon
• Gyro Ball is used as a powerful move to hit fast opponent such as Latios, Skymin, and Tornadus
• Ferrothorn Lives every non boost fighting attack (gems Heping Hand) but hammer arm from Iron Fist Conk and most unstabbed fire attacks(Mence heatwave, Latios hp fire, random hp fires) regardless of the weaknesses, trust its bulk.
• Thunder Wave will allow Ferrothorn to slow down opponents for teammates
• Its suggested not to use Twave + gyro ball in tandem

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• Avoid fire- Heatran and Chandy help with this
  
• EV spread allows you to live Fire Gem Heatwave from Chandy while IN RAIN, as well as living all non gem fighting attacks, minus iron fist hammer arm from conk
  
• 0 Speed IVs paired with Relaxed nature make you either the slowest thing ever or the fastest in trick room- also powers Gyro Ball - Cresselia, and friends can set up tr for you
  
• Politoed is a good teammate as it will hinder one of Ferrothorn Weaknesses,
• Attackers that will like things slowed down by Thunder Wave, Hydregion, Conkeldurr, things that hit hard but aren't fast
• Pokemon that don't mind damage from Fire Type attacks, Tyranitar, Dragons, ect
• Things that can switch into fighting attacks, Lati@s, Gyarados, Salamence ect

[Other Options]

• Substitute - Dodges Status in Trick Room- Can set up on weaker Pokes and Rain pokes while not in tr
  
• Explosion + Normal Gem - bangbang
  
• Iron Head - Pairs well if you use Twave as Gyro ball will be weaker
• Stealth Rock puts pressure on pokemon like volc ._.
  
• Toxic
• Gravity
• Swords Dance
  
• Rocky Helmet + Iron barn deals lots of damage
• Choice Band Set ft. Power Whip Gyro/ball iron head Bulldoze and boom
  
• Occa Berry
• A more Offensive Spread with 244 attack evs and a Brave Nautre will allow Gyro Ball to hit really hard

[Checks and Counters]

• Fire hot , Heatran Volcarona, Ninetales, Hydregion, Victini, Chandelure, Arcanine
• Heatran sets up sub easily on Ferrothorn and can clean shop
• Fighting Types that can deal serious damage, Conk OHKOs, Gems Ohko, everything else only 2hkos
• Zapdos resists both STABs and carries heatwave
• Taunter- Thundurus and friends can shut down ferro's support set
  
• Amoongus is a (BAN ME PLEASE)
• Breloom
• Landog superpower does lots, intimidate is a pain and its immune to twave
  
• Taunt shuts down Ferrothorns main recovery option in Leech Seed
• Burns deal lots of residual damage

 

[noobcubed]

Nice skelly, the following are mostly nitpicks.

Overview - I wouldn't really say Ferrothorn is that brilliant for TR teams to be honest, or at least not significantly better than it is for other playstyles. It just doesn't really hit hard enough or have enough attacking coverage to make efficient use of your limited TR turns, especially uninvested. I think of Ferro as more of a TR check than a TR abuser.

Set Comments - Absolutely emphasise that Thunder Wave and Gyro Ball should never be on the same set.

AC - Point out that minimizing speed powers up Gyro Ball, notably ensuring OHKOs on Mamoswine and Terrakion. Recommend running 31 speed IVs and a neutral-speed nature if you run thunder wave. Jellicent is worth mentioning as a partner, not quite as powerful a core as in singles but still good.

OO - Choice Band? Bulldoze?? I'm never sure how bad it has to be before it's not in OO.

C&C - Zapdos resists both Ferrothorn's STABs and often carries Heat Wave. Amoonguss cockblocks Ferrothorn and can spam Rage Powder all day long.

 

[Loses Every Time]

Good analysis here. Just a few things I'd suggest:

Overview - I would mention Ferrothorn's ability, Iron Barbs, in the overview. Ferrothorn trolls the move Fake Out, taking pretty much no damage from it and hurting the user with Iron Barbs, plus doing damage against physical contact moves. And I agree with noobcubed, Ferrothorn functions better as a Trick Room check, especially against Trick Rain.

OO - I would mention Choice Band here with Power Whip, Gyro Ball/Iron Head, Bulldoze, and Explosion; it's quite unexpected most of the time.

 

[Audiosurfer]

some things here Mizuhime :

• don't like the spread listed. if there's a better benchmark it can hit then sure but eving to live cc 40% of the time from non-adamant top isn't something that sounds very impressive. can't think of a spread right atm tho but when i do i can suggest it if you don't have any other ideas
• when namin dragons lati@s and mence can also switch into fightin types for ferothorn so you might wanna mention them specifically as well
• mention gravity in oo, as weell as swords dance in trick room. sandstorm could also be used to remove rain and make ferrothorn even more anti weather (it has sunn day but powerin up fire type hits isn't ideal, if you think the buff to fire hits doesn't matter too much i'd mention sunny day then to weaken water type hits)
• stealth rock is a nice way to put pressure on fire types like volc and tales that normally love comin in on ferrothorn. ik you're p. skeptical on it so if you want you can leave it out and wait for some other qc input but i've tested sr and it's a p. decent move in doubles, certainly enough so for oo imo (especialy if you're mentioning being locked into an unstabbed bulldoze)
• mention heatran and chandelure to deter fire type attacks from bein used
• mention trick room setters like cress and chandelure as good partners. you say it can work wel w/ trick room but never mention any setters in ac
• when talkin about substitute in oo, also say how with its good bulk it could probably set up one against like rain and weaker mons p. easily
• mention thundurus in c&c alongside zapdos. it can taunt to shut down support moves so it's just as threatening even w/o a fire type coverage move

 

[Mizuhime]

updated, talked with pwn about ev spread

 

[Stratos]

some things

• etc not ect
  
• 252 hp / 64 def / 192 spd sassy doesn't lose out on any notable physical bulk but can now live every fire attack in rain save for stab non-heat-waves, so i really do think it's the better set, would like to get others' opinions tho (for the record, lives non-fight gem terrak close combat)
• i think loom deserves a mention since it can switch in on 3/4 of ferro's moves and sleep it or do shitloads to it, also doesn't care overly much about being para'd since it uses prio
  
• landog in c&c weakens its attacks with intimidate and doesn't care about thunder wave, also does a lot if it has superpower (~70%)
• take iron head out of oo bc mono-grass > mono-steel at least in this gen; mention seed bomb tho maybe because 15% miss is dongs if youre using it as a cleanup wall
• mention more how IF YOU'RE USING GASTRODON TO BEAT RAIN, YOU SHOULD BE USING THIS INSTEAD i mean fuck the ladder seriously ~_~

 

[Pocket]

252 SpA Fire Gem Chandelure Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 192+ SpD Ferrothorn in rain: 360-424 (102.27 - 120.45%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I like the new spread suggested by Pwnemon, because Ferrothorn seems more productive sponging special hits rather than physical ones. However, it's worth noting that Ferrothorn cannot definitely survive a boosted STAB Heat Wave.

I would still AC mention the former physical build to deal with Metagross, Bisharp, Tyranitar, etc better.

Scizor and Escavalier are good checks to Ferrothorn, imo. They both resist Ferrothorn's STAB, perform well in Trick Room / doesn't care too much about paralysis, and can dish hard damage via Superpower and Megahorn.

EDIT: GAH, strikethrough n00b mistake :X

 

[Stratos]

hey pocket before you go posting calcs maybe you should make sure you've checked the "doubles" tickmark on the side :P

 

[Pocket]

sorry, here's a RIGHT calc:

252+ SpA Fire Gem Chandelure Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 192+ SpD Ferrothorn in rain: 300-352 (85.22 - 100%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO

Moving 4 EVs from Def to SpD would guarantee Ferrothorn's ability to survive one STAB Heat Wave (252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpD).

 

[Stratos]

apparently there's a difference between choice specs and fire gem damage outputs ~_~

 

[Audiosurfer]

ok once you switch the spread slightly to pocket's one for the guaranteed survival consider yourself stampted
QC 1/3

 

[Nollan]

For the sake of enjoying some spread editing (probably my favorite hobby amirite?), a particularly efficient spread is 244 HP / 68 Def / 196 SpD with the same Sassy Nature. 244 HP hits the highest possible Leftovers (and Leech Seed) number, making the most of its bulk. Similarly, it lives the same attacks as the other two spreads (from both Specs and Fire Gem to easily resolve that argument).

nvm I'm bad at math today ;-;

 

[Pocket]

You actually receive max leftovers recovery at max HP. 352 HP is divisible by 16, so Ferrothorn receive the full 6.25% recovery (22 HP/turn)

 

[Mizuhime]

lol updated

 

[Pocket]

Overview - make sure you really emphasize how badly this walls rain, which is a big threat in this meta. Elaborate and specify the specific threats it handles, such as Kingdra and Ludicolo.

- Also mention its ability to tank some of the top dragons, too (not just Rain threats). Pokemon like Latios or Kyurem-B without HP Fire would have a relatively difficult time disposing Ferrothorn.

Set Comments - Standard is not an acceptable name. Consider re-naming it to something more informative, such as "Quick Stall?"

- Also offer a quick introduction that describes the role of this set, before start explaining the moves.

OO - remove Iron Head as advised by Pwnemon

A more Offensive Spread with 244 attack evs and a Brave Nautre will allow Gyro Ball to hit really hard

- move to AC, since this applies to the main set

Please consider all of these comments when you're writing this up, Mizuhime

QC Approved (2/3)

 

[noobcubed]

FWIW I think "Defensive" or "Leech Seed" are usable names for the set, if not inspired ones.

 

[Stratos]

Mizu do you plan on writin this

 

[Mizuhime]

eventually probably this upcoming weekend yell at me on irc or something