Fire, Fire, Fire, Glass Cannon, Bug, Shroom(Peaked 2070)

youngjake93

youngjake93

Disclamer: I know I am harcore weak to SubTran and Rock Slide, but CB Brave Bird+Flare Blitz fit so well with the team. Talonflame and Chandelure could possibly switch to something that fills similar roles, but there's not much with their raw power to choose from that can do the same things.
Well, as I was telling the guys at #doubles, I wanted to try to peak #1 with this team and actually take a screenie before posting this, but the ladder isn't working on my day off. The reason I don't have a screenshot is because as I was moving up the ladder Arcticblast suggested I change one of my members and test it on an alt. I told him alt testing is for pussies and then I lost several games afterward with his team suggestion and never screenshotted anything lolz. Also, I would have really sick replays against some of the #doubles peeps, but the replay saver has been down.

Team-building process was basically to complement CharizardY. My second teamslot went to Chandelure to have epic Heat Wave spam. Sash Deoxys-Attack came next as a heavy hitter that appreciates Sun getting rid of Sand and Hail. Amoonguss was the next member to take some heat from all the frail attackers plus add a teeny-bit of defensive synergy. Scizor and Talonflame finished the team because they are the premier priority attackers in the tier and I needed to pick off weakened, speedy and TR threats that got around the annihilation done by my first three members. Also, apparently gen4 is bad because I use something from every other gen here.

The team is pretty close to Hyper Offense, but without a lot of set-up because its doubles. Most matches are much less than 10 turns and it rarely pushes up toward 20 if I'm battling someone pretty good with a particularly bulky team that I struggle with match-up wise. Amoonguss is essentially the only slow support mon and even he has two viable offensive options(and technically 3 if you count Spore as offensive)

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Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Focus Blast
- Ancient Power
- Protect

Initially, I tried Solar Beam, but Water types basically never bother me. Charizard is usually taking less than 25% from Scalds and both Scizor and Amoonguss take less than 50% from Belly Drum Aqua Jet in Sun(not that I would let it easily set up anyway). Plus, I was determined to run Timid and Timid can't OHKO neither Azumarill nor Rotom W. My real thing to worry about was Heatran. I tried HP Ground, but Focus Blast does the same damage and covers more things like Houndoom, Hydreigon, Tyranitar, Rhyperior, etc. Dragon Pulse is to hit Dragons hard AND have a way to hit Chandelure, plus have 1 reliable 100% move for low health survivors.

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Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Overheat

There are a few things that you could call "sweepers" in doubles and Modest Scarf Chandy is one of them. I can finish off the opponent late-game with this if I choose, but what is much more fun is pairing it up with Charizard early-game(or mid-game after fishing for a Flash Fire boost, oh gawd). Chandelure in Sun almost always does >50% to everything with Heat Wave which puts them in range for Charizard to finish. Sometimes I get lucky and Chandelure KOs one mon, so Charizard gets a significant power boost against the other due to lack of spread modifier. Energy Ball is primarily for Rotom-W, Politoed and Gastrodon, but sometimes I would just rather lock myself into Heat Wave even against them so I don't have to switch out later. Shadow Ball and Overheat are for emergency HIT THIS ONE THING WITH A GOOD STAB NOW moments.
Maybe Heatran could go here to lower Rock Slide weakness?

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Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Feint
- Bug Bite

This actually serves quite a few purposes. One, LO Bullet Punch is crucial for finishing things off. Two, Feint's +2 priority is even nicer than +1 and it helps when people try to Protect stall against Sun or avoid getting OHKOd while their partner does work. Three, Swords Dance takes advantage of free turns that this highly offensive team sometimes creates. All three of Scizor's attacks become very threatening from LO +2.
No, I will not switch this with Hariyama again lol. That didn't work at all :p
I have though about using maybe Terrakion, Landorus-T or something else in this slot though, but Scizor is sort of the glue to the team.

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Deoxys-Attack @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 238 Spd / 252 SAtk / 20 Atk
Mild Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Deo-A is THE most under-utilized threat of all time in Doubles. Even with a Sash, it is OHKOing loads of things and with the right support you would swear this thing has 9 lives. There isn't much else to say. I guess it is my best check to Jolteon, Garchomp, Heatran, Rotom W, etc which this team struggles with without Deo-A. Psycho Boost>Superpower>Finish off stragglers with Ice Beam>Switch Out.

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Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 228 SDef / 252 HP / 24 Def / 4 Spd
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Spore
- Foul Play
- Rage Powder

RP/FM support is MANDATORY for Deo-A and Amoonguss conveniently has great synergy with the team. Redirecting and tanking Thunderbolts and Hydro Pumps is pretty handy, Energy Ball hard counters most Waters, Spore knocks something out of the equation(especially useful against TR), Foul Play does damage to strong threats that are asleep/finishing off low HP threats that 4x resist Energy Ball. 4 speed is to outspeed mostly every Reuniclus and Slowbro to Spore them.

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Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 180 Spd / 252 Atk / 76 HP
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Taunt

CB Brave Bird is just really useful. I've touched on how this team likes to blow things up and then pick up the pieces. CB Prio Brave Bird can do both. Aerial Ace is for when I need Talonflame for early-game and know that it won't be staying in long, but just has to deal chip damage. U-Turn is rarely used, but is a nice option to have just in case. CB Flare Blitz in Sun from 351 base speed is sexy and used sometimes, but I'd rather be locked into Brave Bird.
Meh, maybe something like Aqua Jet Crawdaunt could work here for strong prio and checking TR.




I'm done trying to ladder in its current form and I'll try out all suggestions. It would be cool to have something more consistent because it feels like I have to be playing at peak performance with this team or I can end up fighting an uphill battle fast(it does have a lot of options to come back from behind though).




WEAKNESSES
Bulky Rotom W is hard to take down and Scarf Volt Switch makes matters even worse for trying to get rid of the threat.
SubTran is a monster and always will be. I have to try to not give it sun and Flash Fire boosts while smashing it with attacks before it gets in its groove.
Opposing Chandelure really love my Fire spam and Drought. They wall most of my attacks, but I can usually have a few options like D Pulse, Shadow Ball or Brave Bird to take them down.
Fast Talonflame like to take advantage of my reliance on speed and priority. I either have to hit it with Feint on Scizor or tank a Brave Bird and retaliate(not that I have great coverage on Fire/Flying types to retaliate with)
Scarf Rock Slide(Landog) just likes to own me before I can move. I usually can outplay it by hitting it with Chandy after tanking 1 Rock Slide, setting up with Scizor, smacking it with Talonflame, hitting it HARD on the switch in, etc, but it is a huge threat either way.
Chople Tyranitar and bulky (Mega)Tyranitar that like to run and hide can be really obnoxious by stirring up Sand repeatedly.
Mega Kangaskhan really steals HO momentum with its very powerful Fake Out and dangerous Sucker Punch while being able to annihilate everything on my team in a single turn outside of Scizor. Brave Bird is usually the best option as well as luring it into wasting turns on failed Sucker Punches while I KO it.


I don't really have a problem with Rain and Rain is not even OU, so I am not worried about it. What is worrying is when 2+ of the above threats join forces on the same team. Especially since a lot are very common.

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Focus Blast
- Ancient Power
- Protect

Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Overheat

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Feint
- Bug Bite

Deoxys-Attack @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 20 Atk / 252 SAtk / 238 Spd
Mild Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 228 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Spore
- Foul Play
- Rage Powder

Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Taunt
 
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Really solid team. Zard Y / Chandelure really is an overwhelming offensive power and not much is switching into it. The hyper offensive nature of the team means you'll be able to plow through a whole load of teams with ease.
A couple of things you need to watch out for are:
>Scarf Mamoswine - You might not expect it and a Stone edge / Rock slide would put you on the back foot from the start. It doesn't help that you have nothing that can safely switch in on it.
>Scarf TTar - A really underrated threat imo pretty much does the same as Mamo to you but is a little easy to handle. The sand it brings also eats up Deoxys' sash which is no fun.
>Stealth Rocks - Not many people use them but your team is a great example of how they don't suck, SR have a big impact on 4 of your pokemon, not really much you can do about it but it's something to watch out for.
>Rain / Sand - If you lose the weather war you have a lot of work to do so make sure Zard stays alive.

I'm not gonna recommend any changes because the team itself is actually pretty solid if played right. Just make sure you don't throw out the key players with bad prediction and you'll be able to stomp the majority of the ladder.
Good Job.
 
BLOOD TOTEM said:
Really solid team. Zard Y / Chandelure really is an overwhelming offensive power and not much is switching into it. The hyper offensive nature of the team means you'll be able to plow through a whole load of teams with ease.
A couple of things you need to watch out for are:
>Scarf Mamoswine - You might not expect it and a Stone edge / Rock slide would put you on the back foot from the start. It doesn't help that you have nothing that can safely switch in on it.
>Scarf TTar - A really underrated threat imo pretty much does the same as Mamo to you but is a little easy to handle. The sand it brings also eats up Deoxys' sash which is no fun.
>Stealth Rocks - Not many people use them but your team is a great example of how they don't suck, SR have a big impact on 4 of your pokemon, not really much you can do about it but it's something to watch out for.
>Rain / Sand - If you lose the weather war you have a lot of work to do so make sure Zard stays alive.

I'm not gonna recommend any changes because the team itself is actually pretty solid if played right. Just make sure you don't throw out the key players with bad prediction and you'll be able to stomp the majority of the ladder.
Good Job.
Click to expand...

Yea, I have gotten in the habit of Protecting turn 1 with Charizard against all Landorus-T, Mamoswine, Tyranitar, etc(even things like Mienshao like to scarf Stone Edge me... -_-) just to scout for scarf Rock Slides. Chandy only takes 80% from Lando-T iirc and Talonflame outspeeds scarfers with its priority, so even they can wiggle around it, but of course its risky and I gotta be careful. This is part of how SD Scizor is the glue of the team because it can set up on scarf Rock Slides and start wrecking.

I can try to play around SR by making them pay for using a turn to set up and only switching in after being KO'd, but yea it does suck. Especially with the abundance of Sturdy SR users, even Skarmory can be obnoxious.


I really am thinking about trying Crawdaunt out for massive synergy increases, but seriously... dat epic loss of immediate power.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 202-238 (52.8 - 62.3%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 116-138 (30.3 - 36.1%)

A DD set looks scary though
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 377-445 (98.6 - 116.4%)
 
Be sure to remember that Deoxys-A is now illegal :)
(I know this is Doubles but I am positive it'd be banned from both, or I am just dumb ): )
 
Just a quick note; I'm going to add in more later since I don't have too much time now but this team is exceptionally weak to Sandstorm, unfortunately. MegaTTar cockblocks a lot of this team's offensive prowess, and you don't really have much to switch into Stone Edges and Rock Slides, despite the fact that both attacks are common and OHKO 3 Pokemon on the team. For now I'm just going to suggest that you use Steel Wing over Aerial Ace on Talonflame. Aerial Ace might seem useful but if chip damage is what you're aiming for, Steel Wing is probably better as it's another way for you to hit the Rock-types that this team is so weak to. If you're used to using Aerial Ace as priority, you should now use Brave Bird- as if chip damage is all you're trying to deal early on then even less chip damage is what you'll take as recoil. I generally find it undesirable to be locked into weaker attacks like Aerial Ace, especially since your opponents can easily take advantage of your susceptibility to Sand Pokemon. With Steel Wing you at least become able to hit predicted TTars hard with every single Pokemon on the team, giving you a fairly reliable offensive way to counter it.
 
In addition to what Electrolyte said, you could also opt Tailwind over Aerial Ace if you don't care too much about Rhyperior and Ttar. Tailwind can be very useful when you're switching in on things you can't really harm.
 
Ok, this team is really weak to Water-types. You only have one resist to 3 weaknesses and neither of your neutralities can switch in. In adition something like Scarf Tyranitar could cause a lot of problems for this team. Thus I've got a few fixes. First, change your Zard set to Heat Wave / Solarbeam / Fire Blast / Protect @ Modest. This way you can actually check Water types with Drought and Mega Charizard Y. I know you like Dragon Pulse but you still 2HKO just about every Dragon type with Fire Blast in the sun using that set. Also, Solarbeam is able to hit Tyranitar still as well as getting Water-types like Politoed, which could help with your weakness to rain. Other changes I'd say are Protect > Feint on Scizor and bulky Hitmontop > Scarf Chandelure. Feint isn't really too useful when your goal is to sweep with Scizor, and Protect is always a very useful move to help shield yourself rom attacks for a turn or two. Bulky Hitmontop helps patch up this team's weakness to things such as Sand since it can block Rock Slides with Wide Guard and has Intimidate to check physical attackers. Also, it can even run Feint to replace the fact that you lost Feint on Scizor with these changes. With all of the priority your team has, you don't really need the speed from a Scarf user and Chandelure's typing is redundant with the rest of your team.

Change summary:
MegaZard Y --> Heat Wave / SolarBeam / Fire Blast / Protect @ Modest Nature
Protect > Feint on Scizor
Bulky Hitmontop > Scarf Chandelure

Hitmontop @ Sitrus Bery
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Atk / 64 Def / 128 SDef
Careful Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Feint
- Wide Guard
 
Supporting Audiosurfer's Solarbeam Charizard. Dragon Pulse is cool and all but Water-types and Rock-types are much more threatening and you need to cover them.

Also is there any reason why you're using Energy Ball over Giga Drain on Amoongus? The power difference is really unnoticable and the recovery useful for tanking more hits, as Amoonguss is drastically needed to do. If you're looking for more Grass power well Solarbeam Char-Y is just your guy.
 
Electrolyte said:
Supporting Audiosurfer's Solarbeam Charizard. Dragon Pulse is cool and all but Water-types and Rock-types are much more threatening and you need to cover them.

Also is there any reason why you're using Energy Ball over Giga Drain on Amoongus? The power difference is really unnoticable and the recovery useful for tanking more hits, as Amoonguss is drastically needed to do. If you're looking for more Grass power well Solarbeam Char-Y is just your guy.
Click to expand...

Audiosurfer said:
Ok, this team is really weak to Water-types. You only have one resist to 3 weaknesses and neither of your neutralities can switch in. In adition something like Scarf Tyranitar could cause a lot of problems for this team. Thus I've got a few fixes. First, change your Zard set to Heat Wave / Solarbeam / Fire Blast / Protect @ Modest. This way you can actually check Water types with Drought and Mega Charizard Y. I know you like Dragon Pulse but you still 2HKO just about every Dragon type with Fire Blast in the sun using that set. Also, Solarbeam is able to hit Tyranitar still as well as getting Water-types like Politoed, which could help with your weakness to rain. Other changes I'd say are Protect > Feint on Scizor and bulky Hitmontop > Scarf Chandelure. Feint isn't really too useful when your goal is to sweep with Scizor, and Protect is always a very useful move to help shield yourself rom attacks for a turn or two. Bulky Hitmontop helps patch up this team's weakness to things such as Sand since it can block Rock Slides with Wide Guard and has Intimidate to check physical attackers. Also, it can even run Feint to replace the fact that you lost Feint on Scizor with these changes. With all of the priority your team has, you don't really need the speed from a Scarf user and Chandelure's typing is redundant with the rest of your team.

Change summary:
MegaZard Y --> Heat Wave / SolarBeam / Fire Blast / Protect @ Modest Nature
Protect > Feint on Scizor
Bulky Hitmontop > Scarf Chandelure

Hitmontop @ Sitrus Bery
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Atk / 64 Def / 128 SDef
Careful Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Feint
- Wide Guard
Click to expand...

I added a team weaknesses section in the OP
Technically Rock types are covered by Focus Blast and OHKOs Mega Tyranitar which as you noted should be a threat to account for whereas Solarbeam does not. Also, the reason I have Dragon Pulse is essentially just for Chandelure(with the added bonus of having a very reliable attack that also hits Dragons) since the right set could sweep me otherwise and changing scarf Chandelure to Hitmontop would only exacerbate the problem. Also, having Intimidate doesn't really help because everything on my team is still going to get wrecked by things even at -1 :/ Bulky Top would just serve to slow my offensive momentum DRASTICALLY imo. Finally, I don't think I properly explained the reason I use Feint on Scizor. I actually use it more of as a reliable coverage option over a Protect breaker. It makes short work of Talonflame and Rotom W while also ASSURING I pick off weakened threats which is crucial for HO. I rarely if ever used it to break Protects for OTHER attackers. Also, for what it is worth it does more damage to Heatran than BP.

Energy Ball is 25% stronger. The power difference is just too big imo for a fast-paced team, plus Giga Drain recovery is really lame since it doesn't do much damage to cause recovery anyway. It's also the reason I opted for Foul Play.

0 SpA Life Orb Amoonguss Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-W: 151-182 (49.6 - 59.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Life Orb Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-W: 127-151 (41.7 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 SpA Life Orb Amoonguss Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 359-426 (84.2 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Life Orb Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 302-359 (70.8 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



However, with all that said, I will still give all suggestions their fair play trial. I gave Talonflame Steel Wing in the OP, I will try out Audio's suggestions and will try Giga Drain on Amoonguss since CharY will have Solarbeam. I have my concerns with how well they will work, but it is my fault for not having the team weaknesses listed in the OP.

Thanks for the comments guys


Edit: Also, thank you so much AudioSurfer for contributing to my Smogon Doubles Teambuilding Competition post
 
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