NOC Fire and Ice Mafia: Fire and Ice tie, the village loses.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Gale was my lynch yesterday and like, he turned his behavior around when he realized he was coming across too scummy and began contributing. But I still want to call bs on his 'helpful' meta posts and lynch tallies. I've never liked that, I don't like it still, I think he's mafia trying to appear helpful town. He is definitely being protective and allowing of Pokeguy today. He doesn't want the people who are gunning for Pokeguy to be able to control/choose the lynch and wants Pokeguy to be able to. Which, yes, precludes that Pokeguy and other newbies are all town or Gale thinks they will lynch a scum not on their team. This means Gale thinks the mafias are comprised of pretty much only experienced players? I've been suspicious about Gale all game, sure he has had these really weird towny moments where it's like, would he be so stupid if he was mafia? Would he make those weird night posts if he had received a mafia conversation and was talking to his partner there after he hadn't been able to? I'm honestly really annoyed he made those posts and wasn't godkilled because now I don't know if that noob move was genuinely from a place of townhood, which is the more likely reason, and is thus making me suspect him LESS than I should. To answer your above question, Gale is a strong mafia candidate for me and it wouldn't surprise me if "kind elder guiding him" DLE was his partner. Or even on the other mafia team, trying to prevent Mafia Two from self-destructing.

To Yeti, and to all of those who think that my play earlier today was supposed to indicate that all Noobs are towns and all Experienced players are scums.

Answer: No, I don't think so.

Explanation: Then why did I make those plays?

I believe that a Newbie scum player is easier to deal with, in the end game, compared to an experienced scum player. Is this assumption wrong? If so, then I would like Yeti or UncleSam to say why this assumption is wrong.

 

[Celever]

To Yeti, and to all of those who think that my play earlier today was supposed to indicate that all Noobs are towns and all Experienced players are scums.

Answer: No, I don't think so.

Explanation: Then why did I make those plays?

I believe that a Newbie scum player is easier to deal with, in the end game, compared to an experienced scum player. Is this assumption wrong? If so, then I would like Yeti or UncleSam to say why this assumption is wrong.

The problem with that assumption isn't that it's right or wrong, it's that it's an assumption. For example, UltrasPlot is my strongest scum read and UncleSam's strongest town read, and whether he wants to be classified as new or not, his only mafia experience is on showdown, so he is new. Some players are easier to spot than others, but this isn't in direct correlation to the amount of games the user has played.

Plus, we don't want mafia leading a lynch whether they're easier to look into in the postgame than an experienced mafia or not. We just don't want mafia on the lynch because they WILL try to lead us down the wrong path.

Now stop with this aimless discussion and give a list of reads. Go. Now.

 

[UncleSam]

Unvote
Lynch Acidphoenix

acidphoenix you said you'd post something real, and instead you c/p'd an old reads post from like the beginning of Day 1. Tired of the fact that every time I stop posting and prodding people this thread just instantly dies.

 

[Celever]

It would help if The Diabolic Gift actually kept an up to date player list, including subs. I have no clue who Spiffy subbed in for, for example. Nor having a list of live players is also a huge hassle for mass tags.

And the convos are really inconvenient to use. If you want to do a vote count, PLEASE just edit the OP.

I don't have anything to add since no one has said anything since I caught up yesterday sooooooooo.......

 

[Ampharos]

I'm not going to be able to maintain any decent level of activity until Friday night at the earliest. The Diabolic Gift if you wanna sub me out feel free to do so.

 

[Yeti]

PokeguyNXB I see you looking at this thread. I expect a post of some substance, NO excuses.

acidphoenix copying your antiquated reads and adding five new words total is not at all what is expected or permissible. New reads, new content, substantiate length please.

Da Letter El Cancerous Anything to say?

Gale Wing Srock who do you think the most likely partnerships for mafias one and two are?

UltrasPlot same question as above plus do you have any thoughts on the day?

 

[Celever]

I find it difficult to believe that no one has any thoughts about my catch up posts. That should have created discussion, not stifled it. Seriously, nothing?

 

[Gale Wing Srock]

PokeguyNXB I see you looking at this thread. I expect a post of some substance, NO excuses.

acidphoenix copying your antiquated reads and adding five new words total is not at all what is expected or permissible. New reads, new content, substantiate length please.

Da Letter El Cancerous Anything to say?

Gale Wing Srock who do you think the most likely partnerships for mafias one and two are?

UltrasPlot same question as above plus do you have any thoughts on the day?

I think it is clear from what I have posted before.
I think US and Celever are a team, and DLE and Pokeguy are a team. Although I can be completely wrong with that. *shrugs*

It is just a hunch, we can never know for sure, since there is no Info in the game. Except to the scums.

 

[Celever]

acidphoenix is viewing the thread. Be useful. Now.

 

[acidphoenix]

Yeti it's not finished

I think it is clear from what I have posted before.
I think US and Celever are a team, and DLE and Pokeguy are a team. Although I can be completely wrong with that. *shrugs*

It is just a hunch, we can never know for sure, since there is no Info in the game. Except to the scums.

Which do you think killed Spiffy, and which do you think killed BT?

Yeti that post literally has a note in it saying it's incomplete. I'm about to go shower and will then come back and work on it.

 

[Gale Wing Srock]

Which do you think killed Spiffy, and which do you think killed BT?

I think US and Celever killed BT, and DLE and Pokeguy killed Spiffy.

 

[Da Letter El]

lol I would literally never kill spiffy there. As mafia I would leave him alive as a free lynch target today and kill Yeti or a safe towny (like a ButteredToast/UltrasPlot) because I legitimately thought Spiffy was mafia. If you're reading me as being mafia from spiffy being dead then you need to reevaluate.

Will read through more thoroughly and post in a bit

 

[Gale Wing Srock]

lol I would literally never kill spiffy there. As mafia I would leave him alive as a free lynch target today and kill Yeti or a safe towny (like a ButteredToast/UltrasPlot) because I legitimately thought Spiffy was mafia. If you're reading me as being mafia from spiffy being dead then you need to reevaluate.

Will read through more thoroughly and post in a bit

Hmm yeah I agree to that reasoning. Spiffo gets more love from DLE :p

So the otherway, has a better possibility of happening.

 

[Cancerous]

Alright, quick google search on ultrasplot reveals that he is involved in NOC mafia in other forums. So there's that. He doesn't really give noob vibe to me.
And this is something strange.

UncleSam

I have told already that it is better for a scum team to lynch their opp scum team today.
Reasons:
1) To be ahead in numbers in the end game.
2) To get town cred.

If you guys don't lynch a scum today, you risk being night killed by your opp scum. Because if the opp scum team know that they don't have much voice in the day discussions over your scum team. Then they might as well go for the night kill on you, since its easier to take out a more influential player through night kills.
---
Okay while thinking of this, I got this brilliant idea. Scum Team A doesn't know who Scum Team B's last partner is. They think he must be a noob scum, that is the reason they are driving the lynch towards Noob town / Noob Scum. To reduce the possibility of who could be the last scum.

This is actually bad for Scum Team B.
---
So regardless of scum hunting or not, Scum Team A is going after Noob Town / Noob Scum and it is in the best interests of Scum Team B to push a lynch on one of Scum Team A. Because if they let Scum Team A to get rid of the buffer Noob Towns, it will be easier for the Scum Team A's remaining member to take a good shot at you guys.

It appears that Scum Team A knew who Scum Team B's first member is. That kind of insider's knowledge is very valuable indeed.

Your endeavour to give scum team B guidance worries me, look like you have spent some quality time trying to figure out what's best for the scums to do. Scumread on gale right now. There's always that noobpass but eh, this one crossed the line for me.

My top suspects are now phoenix and gale.

Discuss thoroughly, my loyal subjects.

 

[Gale Wing Srock]

Alright, quick google search on ultrasplot reveals that he is involved in NOC mafia in other forums. So there's that. He doesn't really give noob vibe to me.
And this is something strange.


It appears that Scum Team A knew who Scum Team B's first member is. That kind of insider's knowledge is very valuable indeed.

Your endeavour to give scum team B guidance worries me, look like you have spent some quality time trying to figure out what's best for the scums to do. Scumread on gale right now. There's always that noobpass but eh, this one crossed the line for me.

My top suspects are now phoenix and gale.

Discuss thoroughly, my loyal subjects.

Lol Cancerous, It says at the beginning of the para that it was an Idea :o

My god, quoting me out of context and putting me on suspect list, for something that we have to do in this game to figure out who the scums are (due to lack of good info roles). Makes me go bananas.

But the idea of constant vigilance and scum hunting is good, so keep at it I guess.

 

[UncleSam]

I'm not unvoting because A. I want to play league and B. I want Acidphoenix to post and don't want to give him more reasons to keep stalling by unvoting him.

But that looks to me like a scumslip from Gale that I could totally see him making.

 

[Celever]

I'm not sure that it is a scumslip. It's pretty impossible for Scum Team A to know one of the members of Scum Team B, right? They don't have a cop or anything. I think that it was just poorly worded, which is no surprise given that we're talking about Gale here.

 

[Celever]

Really? Could the mafia at least TRY and put some effort into seeming towny? Not posting at all is a total cop out.

BTW, this is a really long shower, acidphoenix.

 

[UncleSam]

It's just like if I don't post discussion dies idk I'm getting tired of prodding people continuously.

I want one or two more votes on Acidphoenix and frankly I almost don't care how close we get to majority (would prefer to stay at L-2 though). I'm liking a lynch on him more and more.

The thing with the Gale scumslip Celever wasn't that Gale necessarily is Team A and knows someone off Team B, it's that if Gale is Team A and thinks he knows someone from Team B or he and his partner discussed it at length and came to a reasonable guess it's highly likely he would refer to that guess in precisely the manner he did. So while the scumslip was not as damaging as maybe it appeared initially (ie these are a lot of assumptions) I think it is absolutely in line with what Gale would say if he were Team A. Also note how Gale continually refers to me being the one who killed BT, but has barely ever mentioned the possibility that I killed Spiffy. This strongly implies that he is Team A, and that he and his partner believe I am a member of Team B.

So ya, I'm down for a Gale lynch at this point too except that Acidphoenix is being so ridiculous about posting when I know to a certainty he is active on IRC, other parts of the site, and even other mafia games on this forum, that I feel like he must be mafia who is just scared that there is a huge expectation on his next post and he has to get it 'just right'. I feel like a villager would not take so much time to post when in theory any snippet of what they have posted would be genuine and just as valuable in parts as a longer, more thought-out post.

UltrasPlot are you still there? PokeguyNXB, Cancerous I'd like more contributions and your thoughts on Acidphoenix and Gale. Da Letter El I'm still waiting on that post you were working on.

Not sure if I have anything to prod Yeti/Celever for and Walrein I presume will post again when he gets back tomorrow night.

I'd like a lot more opinions on the possibility of Gale being Scum Team A who believes that I am Scum Team B and thus why he believes so strongly that I killed ButteredToast but doesn't seem interested in accusing me (or anyone else for that matter) of killing Spiffy. I'd also like some additional pressure on Acidphoenix.

 

[Celever]

Sorry, but I care more about keeping my vote on UltrasPlot for now. He's been useless today, and I think that he's skating by just because your townread him so hard, UncleSam. Everyone is suspicious of acidphoenix at least a little bit, a lot less are suspicious of Ultras.

Looking at Gale Wing Srock's post again, I can sorta see it now.

Looking at Gale's reads post, his two biggest scum reads are by FAR me and UncleSam. There is nothing I could see that would tip either of us off as huge scum, but take a look at his read on US...

UncleSam : Now why is that no one find him scummy other than Ultrasplot and me? Because he has spread a veil over your eyes, he is a magician if not a genius. I am surprised at how brilliantly he can take an entire game from under the nose of a majority alliance / faction, with them readily giving him the win. After Magmafia, I think I have found the difference between Town Sam and Scum Sam. - Genius Scum

This gives no evidence, but Gale is totally 100% convinced that US is scum for some reason. Not only this, but Gale has been CALLED OUT on this lead since then, and he didn't respond to the accusations. I think that now that I've made the connection between this lead and the slip, there could well be a cow to milk here...

Buuuuuuuuut Gale is making an effort to contribute, and UltrasPlot is totally trying to shirk his duties as town, so I'm thinking he could well be mafia.

 

[Yeti]

The thing with the Gale scumslip Celever wasn't that Gale necessarily is Team A and knows someone off Team B, it's that if Gale is Team A and thinks he knows someone from Team B or he and his partner discussed it at length and came to a reasonable guess it's highly likely he would refer to that guess in precisely the manner he did. So while the scumslip was not as damaging as maybe it appeared initially (ie these are a lot of assumptions) I think it is absolutely in line with what Gale would say if he were Team A. Also note how Gale continually refers to me being the one who killed BT, but has barely ever mentioned the possibility that I killed Spiffy. This strongly implies that he is Team A, and that he and his partner believe I am a member of Team B.
...
I'd like a lot more opinions on the possibility of Gale being Scum Team A who believes that I am Scum Team B and thus why he believes so strongly that I killed ButteredToast but doesn't seem interested in accusing me (or anyone else for that matter) of killing Spiffy. I'd also like some additional pressure on Acidphoenix.

lol I would literally never kill spiffy there. As mafia I would leave him alive as a free lynch target today and kill Yeti or a safe towny (like a ButteredToast/UltrasPlot) because I legitimately thought Spiffy was mafia. If you're reading me as being mafia from spiffy being dead then you need to reevaluate.

If we believe there is an odd connection between Gale/DLE and DLE has been avoiding a read/committing to an opinion on Gale as well as trying to 'guide' him, well, sure DLE never kills Spiffy there. What if he lets Gale choose the kill and makes off like a clever bandit hiding behind "this makes no sense for me!!" Yes, that's because he wouldn't pick the kill, he'd let Gale pick a strange target that doesn't implicate himself at all.

(sure, DLE's logic is the same for why I wouldn't have killed Spiffy - I thought he was mafia and would've pushed a lynch on him - but as Sam has pointed out my top scumtell is protectiveness over my team and Gale was my lynch target all yesterday)

DLE/Gale = team one, Pokeguy/acidphoenix/Celever (pick 2) = team two. Discuss. Celever might be good and I just read him as scummy/wishful think it'd behoove the town to lynch him.

 

[Yeti]

Also acidphoenix seems to be editing his post with new reads? I swear there is more red italics than before and the last edited time was today. Isn't post editing banned in this game? Not to mention it would be a lot clearer for the rest of us if he just made a new post so we didn't have to go back and hunt for it for his reads.

DLE and acidphoenix are both currently in "later! big post later!" stalling mode which is code for lazy/uncertain scum who doesn't want to invest time into pretending to inhabit a town mindset and make good reads while not actually helping the town.

Why is nobody talking? This page is me, Sam, Gale and Celever.

 

[Celever]

I looked back at acids posts because of what Yeti said, and actually I noticed that acid is currently lynching me despite not having given a real reason, and like Gale is suspicious of US. acid is also trying to not make a strong statement regarding Gale. I think that those two could well be a scum team, combined with Gale's slip.

 

[UncleSam]

I did not notice that acidphoenix is editing his old post, did not notice anything new there (it's still hard as hell to see what is new and there's nothing of substance that I can see), and would like to request that he be forced to stop editing his post and make a new one. I don't want to have to go back and re-check that post every so often to see if he has edited it.

 

[Celever]

Guys, I think someone should go check on acidphoenix. I think he's probably drowned in the shower...