Gengar [QC: 1/3]

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malefic

is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
GP: 0/2
QC: 0/3

AHA!

gengar.gif
gengar-mega.gif


Overview
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- Maintains a valuable niche with Shadow Tag which allows it to trap and remove opponents; this makes it - albeit situationally - a stallbreaker, wallbreaker, and revenge killer rolled into one
- Excellent base 170 Special Attack and base 130 Speed stats aid it in this role, as do moves such as Taunt and Destiny Bond
- Paltry bulk does it no favors especially in an offensively-inclined metagame
- Susceptible to Pursuit, although this can be circumvented with the appropriate move(s)
- Often has to sacrifice itself with Destiny Bond if it wishes to remove a healthy threat
- Faces indirect competition from other Mega Evolutions
- Worth noting that losing Levitate lets it absorb Toxic Spikes upon switching in and that it spinblocks


Offensive Trapper
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name: Offensive Trapper
move 1: Destiny Bond
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Sludge Wave
move 4: Shadow Ball
ability: Levitate (Shadow Tag)
item: Gengarite
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
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  • Destiny Bond is an indispensible support move that goes hand-in-glove with Shadow Tag, allowing Mega Gengar to force trades with a number of offensive and defensive threats alike
  • Taunt then complements Destiny Bond + Shadow Tag by forcing a trapped opponent to use an attack move, in turn letting Mega Gengar use a risk-free Destiny Bond the following turn
  • Sludge Wave is Gengar's strongest Poison-type STAB move and conveniently hits Fairy-types super effectively, allowing it to eliminate them from high health
  • Shadow Ball is Gengar's most consistent STAB option that hits slower Psychic-types such as Lati@s, Lugia and Mega Metagross super effectively, while dealing respectable damage to other Pokemon such as Primal Groudon and Diancie
  • Depending on team needs, a number of move options can be considered over Shadow Ball, which, sadly, does not hit much super-effectively
    • Hidden Power Fire smacks Scizor and Ferrothorn
    • Icy Wind is your most risk-free option against a healthy Mega Salamence/Rayquaza and also hits Ground-types such as Landorus-T and Gliscor
    • Focus Blast hits Tyranitar 4x effectively and also does good damage to Ferrothorn
    • Thunder is Gengar's strongest option for hitting Ho-Oh, Yveltal, and Kyogre
    • Substitute grants Gengar a safe Mega Evolution and eases prediction, notably against users of Thunder Wave that can also deal hefty damage to Gengar

Set Details
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  • EVs are straightforward; 252 Speed EVs with a Timid make the best of Mega Gengar's base 130 Speed by allowing it to outrun threats such as Arceus, Darkrai, and Shaymin-S. 252 Special Attack EVs let Gengar hit as hard as possible
  • Siphoning 88 EVs from Special Attack into HP lets Mega Gengar survive Geomancy Xerneas's +2 Moonblast but the loss in power is generally not worth it

Usage Tips
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  • Actively bringing Gengar in via double switching is key to its effective usage
    • Double switch Gengar in on bulky Pokemon you can remove as dry switching it in exposes Gengar to getting slapped with a status affliction
    • Double switch Gengar in to pick off weakened offensive threats that you predict will switch in to throw out a final blow
    • Double switch Gengar in to get off a safe Mega Evolution, keeping in mind that it has 3 immunities and is resistant to Fairy-type moves
  • Be wary of Choice Scarf users, notably Xerneas, that can surprise and 2HKO Gengar. Lesser seen threats such as Choice Scarf Ho-Oh nonetheless exist and should be scouted for as far as possible
  • From Team Preview, access what Pokemon Gengar should bring down (if it can) that would benefit your teammates best, and plan your game accordingly, as opposed to blindly making trades with Destiny Bond

Team Options
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  • Gengar appreciates teammates that handle the common Ghost-types in the tier, as these can bypass Shadow Tag. Ho-Oh pressures Ghost Arceus and deals hefty damage to Giratina-O with Brave Bird, while Yveltal checks Ghost-types in general
  • Switch-ins to Dark-types such as Yveltal and Dark Arceus are also required as these can otherwise force a Destiny Bond that might be better off saved for late-game. Fairy-types make good teammates
  • A setup sweeper such as Extreme Killer Arceus or Calm Mind Arceus forme can exploit Gengar's trapping capabilities and blow through weakened teams
  • It is effective to pair Gengar with (another) wallbreaker to pick apart defensive cores for a sweeper to come through late-game. Again, Ho-Oh is a good teammate, as are other hard hitters such as Kyurem-W and Primal Kyogre


Perish Trapper
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name: Perish Trapper
move 1: Perish Song
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Protect
move 4: Disable / Substitute
ability: Shadow Tag
item: Gengarite
evs: 252 HP / 84 SpD / 176 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

INFO ABOUT MOVES GOES HERE

Set Details
========

EVS / ITEM / NATURE INFORMATION GOES HERE

Usage Tips
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  • Mega Evolve early and remove stallmons/Choice Band/Choice Specs holders

Team Options
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Other Options
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  • Will-O-Wisp neuters Pursuit trappers such as Tyranitar and Scizor, and has decent general utility outside of that, but not being able to burn a top threat in Primal Groudon is disappointing
  • On teams particularly weak to Jolly Extreme Killer Arceus, Protect can be useful as it lets Gengar Mega Evolve safely and check Arceus later in the game
  • Reflect Type lets Gengar survive Pursuit from common users of the move such as Tyranitar and Scizor if it hits them on the switch-in. A specialized moveset of Pursuit/Will-O-Wisp/Rest/Taunt can remove said Pursuit trappers efficiently, but has little utility outside of that

Checks & Counters
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Mega Gengar is difficult to check in the traditional sense, as it can usually choose its matchups favorably with Shadow Tag.

**Pursuit**: Pursuit users can trap Gengar on the turn it Mega Evolves, thereby preventing it from removing a Pokemon of its choice. However, Mega Gengar can still eliminate the Pursuit user itself with Destiny Bond, and Tyranitar is commonly OHKOed by Focus Blast, while Scizor is OHKOed by Hidden Power Fire.

**Ghost-types**: Ghost-type Pokemon are unaffected by Shadow Tag, allowing them to switch out freely against it. Giratina-O and Aegislash can also threaten Gengar with STAB Shadow Sneak and have enough special bulk to survive a Shadow Ball from Mega Gengar, OHKOing it in return.

**Priority**: Super effective priority moves, such as Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak, usually OHKO Mega Gengar before it can react. However, Sucker Punch fails if Mega Gengar does not attack and can still be exploited with Destiny Bond. Given its poor bulk, Bullet Punch can pick off a weakened Mega Gengar.

**Choice Scarf**: Choice Scarf users can typically outspeed and OHKO Mega Gengar, allowing them to revenge kill it or force it out on a double switch.

**Faster Pokemon**: Mega Mewtwo Y and Deoxys-A, Ubers' resident fast Psychic-type powerhouses, can outspeed and dispatch Mega Gengar, as can Deoxys-S if it carries Psycho Boost. Healthy Dragon Dance users such as Rayquaza and Mega Salamence can force Gengar to predict between Taunt and Destiny Bond, as can Speed Boost Blaziken. Mewtwo forces a Speed tie with Mega Gengar, which it generally does not want to risk.

**Shed Shell**: This held item allows a Pokemon to escape Shadow Tag freely but has no other utility, which severely limits its holder.
 
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i dont think perish trapper deserves a set this time and will oo it if qc doesnt object

i essentially ripped the c&c section from blue j's analysis because i couldn't find anything significant to change on it

qc ready
 
well scarfers is a bit different, as scarf kyogre isn't an issue anymore and gengar can trap scarfxern (lacking psyshock) so maybe change that to something like "things that outspeed it" Scarfers such as genesect, ... and ..., or naturally fast pokemon such as mm2y outspeed gengar and can KO it because of its lack of bulk"
 
rip perish trapper. good call apple, i added a new bullet - "faster pokemon". scarf xern can still cause a weakened gengar problems/prevent it from switching in so i'd still leave the scarfers section intact (xern, yvel, gene). i'll probably expand on it by elaborating on individual mons in the writeup
 
worth mentioning protect in other moves if a teams especially weak to jolly ekiller, worthwise looks fine
 
Mention U-turn Yveltal as a teammate

Otherwise you got everything, QC Approved 1/3
 
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Maybe you should mention in the usage tips that regular Gengar is slower than +Spe Arceus so you shouldn't stay in on ones that can OHKO you. I see people keeping their Gengar in on my Ghostceus before it Megas all the time.
 
I think that you should mention Icy Wind also limits Deoxys-S to one layer (and Shadow Tag prevents it from bothering you again), but Knock Off does a chunk.

Also Sludge Bomb may be better if not using Focus Blast to kill certain things faster due to higher poison chance i.e. Blissey.

I don't see the point of Substitute for Mega Evolving, what would you stay in on (and would stay in on you) that you can outspeed but not OHKO?
 
I think you can add a lot to the "other options" section. Hypnosis + Hex, is both annoying, underrated and a weird win conditon, which can easily break through a lot of deffensive cores, and even some generally good switch-ins to Mega Gengar.

I see that you've mentioned Focus Blast and HP Fire several places, but you didn't slash it on the main set, or mention it on the OO. ARe those moves just supposed to be like that, or is it intended?
 
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Just moves mentions has always been a thing. It is a step above OO, but not quite worth a slash. Quite a few analyses have these.
 
Reflect Type lets Gengar survive Pursuit from common users of the move such as Tyranitar and Scizor if it hits them on the switch-in. A specialized moveset of Pursuit/Will-O-Wisp/Rest/Taunt can remove said Pursuit trappers efficiently, but has little utility outside of that

*Reflect Type lets Gengar survive Pursuit from common users of the move such as Tyranitar and Scizor if it hits them on the switch-in. A specialized moveset of Reflect Type/Will-O-Wisp/Rest/Taunt can remove said Pursuit trappers efficiently, but has little utility outside of that

no biggie but I spotted this
 
CyberWolf said:
I think that you should mention Icy Wind also limits Deoxys-S to one layer (and Shadow Tag prevents it from bothering you again), but Knock Off does a chunk.

Also Sludge Bomb may be better if not using Focus Blast to kill certain things faster due to higher poison chance i.e. Blissey.

I don't see the point of Substitute for Mega Evolving, what would you stay in on (and would stay in on you) that you can outspeed but not OHKO?
Click to expand...

Just a quick point and I haven't done any calcs to see exactly for sure, but there have been games where I have missed an OHKO on Xern because I used Sludge Bomb and not Sludge Wave by like 2%, so the extra 5 BP is actually significant.
 
PerishTrapper Mega-Gengar along with U-Turn Yveltal is still a very solid duo. Why so much hate on that set? It's bulkier, can still run Destiny Bond for emergencies and I believe it can be better than the plain set, depending on the team it's being used in. I would run more speed on it, though, now in ORAS. Probably enough to outspeed Darkrai. In other words, don't knock it till you try it.
 
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Insisting that Perish Song gets a set, and tbh I'd slash Protect after Taunt on the offensive set.

@ above Gengar gets Focus Blast and would run HP Fire if Scizor were good in this metagame (it isn't). Shadow Ball does a ton to Aegislash and 3HKOes Klefki. It has little problem with Steels.

@ below: no problem bro :)
 
Sweep said:
Insisting that Perish Song gets a set, and tbh I'd slash Protect after Taunt on the offensive set.

@ above Gengar gets Focus Blast and would run HP Fire if Scizor were good in this metagame (it isn't). Shadow Ball does a ton to Aegislash and 3HKOes Klefki. It has little problem with Steels.
Click to expand...
I didn't know I'm still a pretty new to this kind of stuff. That's just me and my noobish logic
 
subhypno is a solid set. sub kinda acts like protects in that u try and get it in early on a mon u can sub on to get the mega speed. w/ hypno the idea is to try and retain a sub since ur oppo is obviously trapped. it won't always work out, but that set's hella dangerous on a lot of teams. u can effectively give up destiny bond b/c subhypno will kill anything if u can hit the combo and get some luck.
 
Would VoltTurn, even if it took a massive blow from viability in ORAS, be worth a merit? It helps Mega Gengar switch safely, and trappers love VoltTurn anyways.
 
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