OU Gourgeist-S

Srn

Srn

The Monstrous Bird of New England
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OUPL Champion
gourgeist-small.png

Overview
########

While the smallest sibling may be outshined by the largest, don't let its puny size fool you. Gourgeist-S may not have the great bulk that the largest forme brings to the table, but it possesses a great base 99 Speed, letting it burn slower threats such as Bisharp, Scizor, Dragonite, Diggersby, Breloom, Excadrill, and even Kyurem-B before they can attack. Gourgeist's unique Ghost / Grass typing and its solid base 122 Defense won't let you down against physical threats. Its ability to shrug off almost anything Excadrill has to offer and burn it before it can retaliate makes Gourgeist-S as one of the best spinblockers in the tier.

However, Gourgeist-S has its flaws. Its lackluster base 55 HP and base 75 Special Defense leave it very vulnerable to special attacks, and a weak base 85 Attack doesn't give Gourgeist-S any real offensive presence, making it easy setup fodder for some Pokemon. Its Leech Seeds and Will-O-Wisps attract Grass- and Fire-types like magnets, and Gourgeist-S is forced out by most of them. Powerful special attackers such as Keldeo can 2HKO it, even with resisted attacks. But don't let this discourage you from using Gourgeist-S, as its combination of spinblocking, spreading fast burns, and SubSeeding, all while being reasonably bulky, is not one to ignore.


SubSeed
########

Name: SubSeed
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Protect / Seed Bomb
ability: Frisk
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 Spe
nature: Timid / Jolly

Moves
========

Will-O-Wisp lets Gourgeist-S neuter physical attackers hoping to dent it and can quickly wear down defensive Pokemon like Mega Venusaur. Leech Seed is its main source of healing as well as another source of passive damage that forces plenty of switches. Substitute turns Gourgeist-S into an annoying and effective SubSeeder, scouting out moves and offering it a layer of protection against status effects and strong attacks while also easing prediction. The last move is a toss-up between Protect and Seed Bomb. The former can be used to rack up passive damage with Leech Seed and Will-O-Wisp, as well as add some mind games to the battle, which can leave you in a very advantageous position. Protect, when combined with Frisk, turns Gourgeist-S into an amazing scout, informing you of items and the move the opponent is locked into if they are holding a Choice item. This allows you to respond accordingly without needing any prediction. Seed Bomb can be used if being total Taunt bait bothers you (although Gourgeist-S is pretty much Taunt bait either way). Pain Split deserves a mention for offering semi-reliable recovery and making Gourgeist-S incredibly annoying against stall teams, but any free turns are best spent using one of the first 3 moves anyway.

Set Details
========

224 Speed EVs are used to outpace max Speed Kyurem-B with the rest dumped into HP and Defense. Frisk, in conjunction with Protect, turns Gourgeist-S into an amazing scout, allowing it to discover possible Choice items and use Protect to scout moves, enabling you to respond accordingly. Leftovers is mandatory as passive recovery allows Gourgeist-S to cope with passive damage and compensates for its lack of reliable recovery. A spread with max Speed to outpace and stall out Hydreigon with Substitute and Leech Seed is an option, but it's rarely worth it as Hydreigon is fairly uncommon.

Usage Tips
========

This set aims to switch in on resisted hits and use whichever of the first three moves listed put you in the best position. While Leech Seed and Will-O-Wisp are great moves to annoy the opposing team, if they have Pokemon such as Heatran or Mega Venusaur to absorb one of the moves and threaten Gourgeist-S out, you should refrain from using them. A better play would be to double switch or just scout with Substitute or Protect. Speaking of Protect, use it wisely, as a skilled player can predict when you use it and use the free turn to either switch or set up. Substitute protects Gourgeist-S from Pokemon such as Rotom-W and Chansey that are only threatening through status, so get a Substitute up against them first. Getting a Substitute up on anything that commonly carries status moves should come before anything else, because Gourgeist-S really hates being burned or poisoned. Use Frisk to your advantage by bringing Gourgeist-S in on physical attackers that it can handle so that you can safely discover their item. Finally, even if it means sacrificing Gourgeist-S, don't be afraid to burn a crucial threat like Kyurem-B or Bisharp.

Team Options
========

Gourgeist-S is a superb spinblocker, so pair it with entry hazard setters, like Deoxys-D. Bisharp discourages Defog, and Gourgeist-S can take the Fighting- and Ground-type attacks aimed at Bisharp. Gourgeist-S has subpar Special Defense, so pairing it with special tanks such as Heatran and Tyranitar can patch up its weaknesses. Gourgeist-S has excellent synergy with Tyranitar in particular, taking Fighting- and Ground-type moves, as well as weaker Bug- and Steel-type moves, for Tyranitar, while Tyranitar can take Fire-, Flying-, Ghost-, and Dark-type moves aimed at Gourgeist-S. Gourgeist-S also hates status, so pairing it with a cleric such as Sylveon or Chansey that can take special hits is a good idea. In return, the Pokemon that have been burned by Gourgeist-S will be much easier to take on by these clerics. Fire-type sweepers such as Mega Charizard X and Talonflame can come in and set up on Gourgeist-S easily if they have Roost, so have a good response to them, such as Landorus-T.

Other Options
########

Destiny Bond can be used to surprise slower attackers. A TrickScarf set can even be used with Destiny Bond, Will-O-Wisp, and Seed Bomb, but Rotom-W plays the role of a utility Choice Scarf user better. Phantom Force can be used as an attacking move that also stalls extra turns of burn and Leech Seed damage, but it's easy to play around. Fire Blast can be used to surprise Scizor and Ferrothorn, but it is still very weak otherwise. Shadow Sneak can be used as priority, but it makes for a very weak attacking option. Rock Slide can be used to hit Fire-types, but it suffers the same issue. SubDisable is a cool strategy, but it is often outclassed in this regard by Gengar. If Dark Void and Hypnosis concern you, Gourgeist-S can use Insomnia over Frisk. Toxic can be used to cripple switch-ins attempting to soak up Will-O-Wisp, such as Latios and Latias. Explosion can be used to go out with a bang and inflict as much damage as possible, but Gourgeist-S's pathetic Attack stat makes it extremely weak. Explosion is better used on Gourgeist-XL, which has a more usable base 100 Attack stat.

Checks & Counters
########

In general, threats that don't mind Leech Seed and Will-O-Wisp will not have any problems with Gourgeist-S.

**Fire-types**: Most Fire-types, such as Heatran, Talonflame, and both Mega Charizards, can switch in easily and do whatever they want. Heatran might not like the passive damage from Leech Seed, and actually loses if Gourgeist-S already has a Substitute up, but it can get the Flash Fire boost from Will-O-Wisp.

**Strong Special Attackers**: Strong special attackers such as Gengar and Greninja can OHKO Gourgeist-S easily with their STAB moves, but Pokemon like Latios, Mega Gardevoir, and Manaphy can also OHKO Gourgeist-S with their STAB or SE moves.

**Fast Substitute Users**: Gourgeist-S is also helpless against fast users of Substitute, such as Gengar and Thundurus. They can simply hide behind it and either set up or knock Gourgeist-S out as it cannot do anything back.

**Taunt**: Pokemon with Taunt that can take a Seed Bomb can also shut down Gourgeist-S. Heatran and Mega Gardevoir are prime examples of this. Crobat in particular can shut it down with Taunt, Roost off damage from Seed Bomb (or any other attack) and KO it through its Substitute with Brave Bird thanks to Infiltrator.

**Bulky Grass-types**: Gourgeist-S cannot touch Grass-types that have reliable recovery, such as Mega Venusaur, Chesnaught, and Celebi, although the former two might not like getting burned.

**Magic Guard**: Magic Guard Pokemon such as Clefable and Reuniclus can also set up on Gourgeist-S with ease. Even a Phantom Force is manageable as Reuniclus can use Recover on the turn it that disappears.
 
Last edited:
My First analysis, hope it isn't too bad and I covered all the relevant things
 
All right, so the new strategy dex is going up very soon and there are several Pokemon, including this one, that do not currently have completed analyses. Srn9130, if you could please try to make this look presentable within the next day, that would be helpful. Please contact user darkie once you've made it look presentable (by that I mean "acceptable to be on-site") and refer to and update this pirate pad: https://www.piratepad.ca/p/dex_skeletons

This needs to be done by tomorrow afternoon (GMT -6), so make sure you get it done! If you can't make it look presentable in the next day, please say so in the pirate pad so someone else can make a quick skeleton of it. Thanks!
 
I don't approve of any set besides the following:

SubSeed
########
name: SubSeed
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Will-O-Wisp
move 4: Seed Bomb
ability: Frisk
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 Spe
nature: Jolly

This set plays to Gourgeist-Small's main strength -- speedy, annoying SubSeeder/burn spreader. I don't really see why you'd use Protect when that's only used on other Leech Seed Pokemon because they're too slow to properly utilize the SubSeed strategy. Gourgeist-Small, on the other hand, has base 99 Speed, which is enough to outrun a lot of things and thus properly utilize this strategy. I adjusted the EVs to outrun +Spe Kyurem-B, which is important so you can burn it before it does anything else. Even if this has to mean saccing Gourgeist-Small, it's definitely worth burning Kyu-B and crippling it a lot (we're talking about the LO set, which is growing in popularity). PttP even used this set in SPL -- it's the only one I'd ever consider in any serious form of play.
 
Jukain said:
I don't approve of any set besides the following:

SubSeed
########
name: SubSeed
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Will-O-Wisp
move 4: Seed Bomb
ability: Frisk
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 Spe
nature: Jolly

This set plays to Gourgeist-Small's main strength -- speedy, annoying SubSeeder/burn spreader. I don't really see why you'd use Protect when that's only used on other Leech Seed Pokemon because they're too slow to properly utilize the SubSeed strategy. Gourgeist-Small, on the other hand, has base 99 Speed, which is enough to outrun a lot of things and thus properly utilize this strategy. I adjusted the EVs to outrun +Spe Kyurem-B, which is important so you can burn it before it does anything else. Even if this has to mean saccing Gourgeist-Small, it's definitely worth burning Kyu-B and crippling it a lot (we're talking about the LO set, which is growing in popularity). PttP even used this set in SPL -- it's the only one I'd ever consider in any serious form of play.
Click to expand...

However, Protect combined with Frisk can easily scout choiced pokemon and allow you to respond accordingly. This could be very handy when facing down something azumarill, perhaps trying to catch the common aegislash switch in with a knock off. You would even scout for choiced Rotom-W by protecting because they like to dump a choice scarf on something like this. Protect with Frisk can even reveal some moveslots with some extra thinking, like you know that thundurus is physically based when it tries to use knock off on you. Sure, it's easy to play around, but when used properly it makes you a great scout.
Seed bomb is piss weak anyway, and taunt is pretty rare in this meta so you could even get away with running no attacks. Sub+protect is honestly what has ended up working out best for me. Whenever you want to attack using any of your other 3 moves is usually a better idea, it's not like you're getting great coverage either.

I'll change the evs though, because outspeeding and burning kyu-b is important.
 
Srn9130 said:
However, Protect combined with Frisk can easily scout choiced pokemon and allow you to respond accordingly. This could be very handy when facing down something azumarill, perhaps trying to catch the common aegislash switch in with a knock off. You would even scout for choiced Rotom-W by protecting because they like to dump a choice scarf on something like this. Protect with Frisk can even reveal some moveslots with some extra thinking, like you know that thundurus is physically based when it tries to use knock off on you. Sure, it's easy to play around, but when used properly it makes you a great scout.
Seed bomb is piss weak anyway, and taunt is pretty rare in this meta so you could even get away with running no attacks. Sub+protect is honestly what has ended up working out best for me. Whenever you want to attack using any of your other 3 moves is usually a better idea, it's not like you're getting great coverage either.

I'll change the evs though, because outspeeding and burning kyu-b is important.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Seed Bomb is filler. However, the move combo Sub + Leech Seed + Wisp is mandatory, or else you might as well run something else. Protect is actually very good, I forgot about it.
 
All right, I'll remove the slashes on Sub. For the fourth moveslot, I'll slash Protect first and then Seed Bomb.
But then where would Pain Split go? Does it deserve a mention at all? If not, the current slashes would look like this:

Leech Seed
WoW
Sub
Protect/Seed bomb

Where do you think Pain Split should go, if anywhere?
 
Srn9130 said:
All right, I'll remove the slashes on Sub. For the fourth moveslot, I'll slash Protect first and then Seed Bomb.
But then where would Pain Split go? Does it deserve a mention at all? If not, the current slashes would look like this:

Leech Seed
WoW
Sub
Protect/Seed bomb

Where do you think Pain Split should go, if anywhere?
Click to expand...
Mention it in 'Moves'.

Alright. Mention in the Overview that basically this thing's role is to sit around and annoy the living hell out of teams w/ Leech Seed HP drain + WoW burn and you're all set.

QC Approved 2/3
 
All right, this is written up and ready for the final QC check!
 
I am not GP, this is merely practice, you do not have to take anything from this post if you do not want to(:
green - red - comment
Overview
########

While the littlest brother may be outshined by the eldest, don't let his puny size fool you. What Gourgeist-S has that Gourgeist-XL does not is speed. You may not have the great bulk the eldest brings to the table, youGourgeist-S possess a great 99 base speed, allowing youIT to burn slower threats likesuch as Bisharp, Scizor, Dragonite, Excadrill, and even Kyurem-B before they attack. YourGourgeist's unique ghost/grass typingGhost / Grass typing gives you the edge on popular threats likesuch as Excadrill and Azumarill, and your solid base 122 defense won't let you down. Its ability to shrug off almost anything Excadrill has to offer and burn it before it can do anything leaves Gourgeist-S as one of the best spin-blockers in the tier.

However, this little pumpkin is not without its flaws. His lackluster 55 base HP and 75 base Special Defense leaves him very vulnerable to special attacks, and a weak 85 base attack doesn't give him any real attacking presence, making it easy set-up fodder for some pokemon. Its Leech Seeds and Will-O-Wisps attract Fire- and Grass-remove space heretypes like a magnet, and Gourgeist-S is forced out by most pokemon of both types. Powerful special attackers like Keldeo can 2HKO our little vegetable even with resisted attacks! But don't let this discourage you from using him, his combination of spin-spaceblocking, spreading fast burns, and Sub-seeding all while being reasonably bulky is no combination you can ignore.


Defensive Spinblocker
########
remove space here
Name: Defensive Spinblocker
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Protect / Seed Bomb
ability: Frisk
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========

What this set aims to do is switch-in on resisted hits and use one of the first 3 moves listed, whichever one you think would put you in the best position. Will-O-Wisp lets you neuter physical attackers hoping to dent you and wears down defensive Pokemon fast. Leech Seed is used as your main source of healing and another source of passive damage andthat forces plenty of switches. Substitute is used to turn you into an annoying yet effective Sub-Seeder, scouting out moves and offering you a layer of protection against status and strong attacks. The last move is a toss up between Protect and Seed Bomb. The former can be used to rack up passive damage with Leech Seed and Will-O-Wisp, and can add a factor of mind-games to the battle, which can leave you in a very advantageous position. Protect, combined with Frisk, also turns you into an amazing scout, informing you of items and the move the opponent is locked into, allowing you to respond accordingly without risking prediction. Seed Bomb can be used if being total Taunt bait bothers you (you're pretty much Taunt bait either way). Pain Split deserves a mention for offering semi-reliable recovery and making you incredibly annoying vs. Stall, but if you have time to use Pain Split you're usually better off using one of the first 3 moves anyway.

Set Details
========

224 Speed EVs are used to outpace max speed Kyurem-B, the rest is dumped into HP and Defense. Frisk, in conjunction with Protect, turns Gourgeist-S into an amazing scout, allowing it to scout for possible choice items, using Protect to scout moves, and then allowing you to respond accordingly. Leftovers is mandatory as youGourgeist does not have access to reliable recovery, and passive recovery is very helpful.

Usage Tips
========

While Leech Seed and Will-O-Wisp are great moves to annoy the opposing team, if they have Pokemon like Heatran and Mega Venusaur to absorb the moves and threaten you out, you should refrain from using them. A better play would be to double switch or just scout with Substitute or Protect. Speaking of Protect, use it wisely, a skilled player can predict you and switch or set up while you Protect. Substitute protects you from most of what pokemon like Rotom-W and Chansey can do, so get a Substitute up on them first. Use Frisk to your advantage by bringing Gourgeist-S in on physical attackers that it can handle so that you can safely learn their item. Finally, even if it means sacrificing Gourgeist-S, don't be afraid to burn a crucial threat like Kyurem-B or Bisharp.

Team Options
========

Gourgeist-S is a superb spinblocker, so pair it with hazards. Bisharp can discourage Defog, and Gourgeist-S takes Fighting- and Ground- type moves aimed at Bisharp too. Gourgeist has sub-par special defense, so pairing it with special tanks like Heatran and Tyranitar can patch heritsmale Gourgeist exists as well :x weaknesses up. Gourgeist-S has excellent synergy with Tyranitar in particular, taking Fighting-, Ground-, weak Bug-, and weak Steel-remove space heretype moves for Tyranitar while it can take Fire-, Flying-, Ghost-, and Dark- type moves aimed at Gourgeist-S. The swift pumpkin also hates status, so pairing it with a cleric like Sylveon or Chansey can take special hits and heal status. Fire-remove space heretype sweepers like Mega Charizard-X and Talonflame can come in and set up on Gourgeist-S easily, so have a good response to them like Landorus-T.

Other Options
########

Destiny Bond can be used to surprise slower attackers. A Trick Scarf set can even be used with Trick, Destiny Bond, Will-O-Wisp, and Seed Bomb, but Rotom-W plays the role of a Utility Scarfer better. Phantom Force can be used as an attacking move that also stalls extra turns of burn and Leech Seed damage, but it's easy to play around. Fire Blast can be used to surprise Scizor and Ferrothorn, but it is still very weak. Shadow Sneak can be used as priority, but it makes for a very weak attacking option. Rock Slide can be used to hit Fire-remove space heretypes but it suffers the same issues. The only attack, if any, that should be used is Seed Bomb. Sub-Disable is a cool strategy, but it can be used better byis often outclassed in this regard by other Pokemon likesuch as Gengar. If Dark Void and Hypnosis concern you, Gourgeist-S can use Insomnia over Frisk.

Checks & Counters
########

Most Fire- types can easily come in and do whatever they want, like Heatran, Talonflame, and both Mega Charizards. Strong Special attackers like Gengar and Greninja can outright OHKO Gourgeist-S easily. Gourgeist-S is also helpless against fast users of Substitute, like Gengar and Thundurus. Pokemon with Taunt that can take a Seed Bomb also shut down Gourgeist-S. Crobat in particular can shut it down with Taunt, Roost off damage from Seed Bomb (or any other attack) and kill it through Substitute with a Brave Bird. Gourgeist-S cannot touch grasses with reliable recovery, like Mega Venusaur, Chesnaught, Celebi, and Trevenant, although they might not like the burn. Magic Guard pokemon like Clefable and Reuniclus also set up with ease. Basically, if you don't mind Leech Seed or Will-O-Wisp, Gourgeist-S will not be a problem.This part has to be in this format:
**counter**: description
space
**counter**: description
for each one, it isn't in paragraph format.
 
Nah. In gen 6, Grass types are immune to powder moves, so only stuff like Dark Void and Hypnosis, which are quite uncommon, get through. Frisk is better.
 
Chesnaught said:
I am not GP, this is merely practice, you do not have to take anything from this post if you do not want to(:
green - red - comment
Overview
########

While the littlest brother may be outshined by the eldest, don't let his puny size fool you. What Gourgeist-S has that Gourgeist-XL does not is speed. You may not have the great bulk the eldest brings to the table, youGourgeist-S possess a great 99 base speed, allowing youIT to burn slower threats likesuch as Bisharp, Scizor, Dragonite, Excadrill, and even Kyurem-B before they attack. YourGourgeist's unique ghost/grass typingGhost / Grass typing gives you the edge on popular threats likesuch as Excadrill and Azumarill, and your solid base 122 defense won't let you down. Its ability to shrug off almost anything Excadrill has to offer and burn it before it can do anything leaves Gourgeist-S as one of the best spin-blockers in the tier.

However, this little pumpkin is not without its flaws. His lackluster 55 base HP and 75 base Special Defense leaves him very vulnerable to special attacks, and a weak 85 base attack doesn't give him any real attacking presence, making it easy set-up fodder for some pokemon. Its Leech Seeds and Will-O-Wisps attract Fire- and Grass-remove space heretypes like a magnet, and Gourgeist-S is forced out by most pokemon of both types. Powerful special attackers like Keldeo can 2HKO our little vegetable even with resisted attacks! But don't let this discourage you from using him, his combination of spin-spaceblocking, spreading fast burns, and Sub-seeding all while being reasonably bulky is no combination you can ignore.


Defensive Spinblocker
########
remove space here
Name: Defensive Spinblocker
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Protect / Seed Bomb
ability: Frisk
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========

What this set aims to do is switch-in on resisted hits and use one of the first 3 moves listed, whichever one you think would put you in the best position. Will-O-Wisp lets you neuter physical attackers hoping to dent you and wears down defensive Pokemon fast. Leech Seed is used as your main source of healing and another source of passive damage andthat forces plenty of switches. Substitute is used to turn you into an annoying yet effective Sub-Seeder, scouting out moves and offering you a layer of protection against status and strong attacks. The last move is a toss up between Protect and Seed Bomb. The former can be used to rack up passive damage with Leech Seed and Will-O-Wisp, and can add a factor of mind-games to the battle, which can leave you in a very advantageous position. Protect, combined with Frisk, also turns you into an amazing scout, informing you of items and the move the opponent is locked into, allowing you to respond accordingly without risking prediction. Seed Bomb can be used if being total Taunt bait bothers you (you're pretty much Taunt bait either way). Pain Split deserves a mention for offering semi-reliable recovery and making you incredibly annoying vs. Stall, but if you have time to use Pain Split you're usually better off using one of the first 3 moves anyway.

Set Details
========

224 Speed EVs are used to outpace max speed Kyurem-B, the rest is dumped into HP and Defense. Frisk, in conjunction with Protect, turns Gourgeist-S into an amazing scout, allowing it to scout for possible choice items, using Protect to scout moves, and then allowing you to respond accordingly. Leftovers is mandatory as youGourgeist does not have access to reliable recovery, and passive recovery is very helpful.

Usage Tips
========

While Leech Seed and Will-O-Wisp are great moves to annoy the opposing team, if they have Pokemon like Heatran and Mega Venusaur to absorb the moves and threaten you out, you should refrain from using them. A better play would be to double switch or just scout with Substitute or Protect. Speaking of Protect, use it wisely, a skilled player can predict you and switch or set up while you Protect. Substitute protects you from most of what pokemon like Rotom-W and Chansey can do, so get a Substitute up on them first. Use Frisk to your advantage by bringing Gourgeist-S in on physical attackers that it can handle so that you can safely learn their item. Finally, even if it means sacrificing Gourgeist-S, don't be afraid to burn a crucial threat like Kyurem-B or Bisharp.

Team Options
========

Gourgeist-S is a superb spinblocker, so pair it with hazards. Bisharp can discourage Defog, and Gourgeist-S takes Fighting- and Ground- type moves aimed at Bisharp too. Gourgeist has sub-par special defense, so pairing it with special tanks like Heatran and Tyranitar can patch heritsmale Gourgeist exists as well :x weaknesses up. Gourgeist-S has excellent synergy with Tyranitar in particular, taking Fighting-, Ground-, weak Bug-, and weak Steel-remove space heretype moves for Tyranitar while it can take Fire-, Flying-, Ghost-, and Dark- type moves aimed at Gourgeist-S. The swift pumpkin also hates status, so pairing it with a cleric like Sylveon or Chansey can take special hits and heal status. Fire-remove space heretype sweepers like Mega Charizard-X and Talonflame can come in and set up on Gourgeist-S easily, so have a good response to them like Landorus-T.

Other Options
########

Destiny Bond can be used to surprise slower attackers. A Trick Scarf set can even be used with Trick, Destiny Bond, Will-O-Wisp, and Seed Bomb, but Rotom-W plays the role of a Utility Scarfer better. Phantom Force can be used as an attacking move that also stalls extra turns of burn and Leech Seed damage, but it's easy to play around. Fire Blast can be used to surprise Scizor and Ferrothorn, but it is still very weak. Shadow Sneak can be used as priority, but it makes for a very weak attacking option. Rock Slide can be used to hit Fire-remove space heretypes but it suffers the same issues. The only attack, if any, that should be used is Seed Bomb. Sub-Disable is a cool strategy, but it can be used better byis often outclassed in this regard by other Pokemon likesuch as Gengar. If Dark Void and Hypnosis concern you, Gourgeist-S can use Insomnia over Frisk.

Checks & Counters
########

Most Fire- types can easily come in and do whatever they want, like Heatran, Talonflame, and both Mega Charizards. Strong Special attackers like Gengar and Greninja can outright OHKO Gourgeist-S easily. Gourgeist-S is also helpless against fast users of Substitute, like Gengar and Thundurus. Pokemon with Taunt that can take a Seed Bomb also shut down Gourgeist-S. Crobat in particular can shut it down with Taunt, Roost off damage from Seed Bomb (or any other attack) and kill it through Substitute with a Brave Bird. Gourgeist-S cannot touch grasses with reliable recovery, like Mega Venusaur, Chesnaught, Celebi, and Trevenant, although they might not like the burn. Magic Guard pokemon like Clefable and Reuniclus also set up with ease. Basically, if you don't mind Leech Seed or Will-O-Wisp, Gourgeist-S will not be a problem.This part has to be in this format:
**counter**: description
space
**counter**: description
for each one, it isn't in paragraph format.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Everything has been implemented.
 
mikelos said:
i think Insomnia is a better ability than frisk
Click to expand...
The only Dark Void user allowed in OU is Smeargle and even then:

Dark Void 12.329% (this is in 1760s btw)

We won't even go over lolHypnosis. Almost as bad as Sing.

Frisk also can seek out potential Mega Evolutions. In this generation it is by far the best ability.
 
Hey there, sorry to request another set change, but I'd like to see Phantom Force alone in the last slot. Not having an attack just blows, and having a move to pressure the Latis/get an extra turn to stall/etc is really awesome. I think it's 100% better than every other last slot option and should be slashed alone there.
 
Jukain said:
Hey there, sorry to request another set change, but I'd like to see Phantom Force alone in the last slot. Not having an attack just blows, and having a move to pressure the Latis/get an extra turn to stall/etc is really awesome. I think it's 100% better than every other last slot option and should be slashed alone there.
Click to expand...

I realize you're QC and all, but I'm going to try to convince you against phantom force, because I've tried it and it really blows. First off, while you do pressure Lati@s (0 attack still only does 61.5%-73.5% to offensive, better used by Gourgeist-XL imo)(Gourgeist-S has 85 base attack, XL has 100 base attack), you have to catch it on the switch anyway, because otherwise:
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gourgeist-Small: 312-368 (99.3 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Our swift squash here doesn't really have reliable recovery either. You'd be better off Leech Seeding, possibly protecting to scout, and then switching into tyranitar or heatran (both are recommended partners). Not only that, but when lati@s switches in and sees you phantom force, they can easily switch into a ghost resist/immune (raptor is notable) (or anything with any physical bulk) and proceed to punish you. If you want to pressure Lati@s, Gourgeist-S isn't really the pokemon for the job, and burn+LO damage+possible Leech seed will be pressuring them pretty well enough. An extra turn to stall is better used by Protect as you are safe against faster things too, like the entire 100 base speed tier.

To top it off, if we are to keep the first 3 slots untouched (that was also your idea, which I agree with) we would lose out on fabulous Frisk+Protect scouting, letting you win against stuff like specs keldeo.
Ultimately, is there any scenario where you'd use phantom force over Leech Seed/WoW/Sub/Protect? I really haven't come across one. If you're faster than the opponent and you have WoW and/or Leech Seed on them, you'd be better off setting up a sub predicting them to switch. I mean, if you've gotten a Leech Seed/WoW on a switch-in, we can assume that this switch-in can beat you.

So, these switch-ins are either faster or slower than you.
If they are faster than you, it is likely they beat you anyhow. For Example, even if you phantom force on something like a gengar switch-in, the gengar can just sub once to soak the hit and then kill you.
If they are slower than you, they're probably bulky, and phantom force won't do jack shit anyway. You'd be better off burning bulky grasses that try to switch in, or Leech Seed the Heatran switch-in.
Magic Guard pokemon won't take much from Phantom Force:
0 Atk Gourgeist-Small Phantom Force vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 150-176 (35.3 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Reuniclus has ample time to recover, if it has it.

I think we can agree that Phantom Force is to be used on a predicted switch if you're using to catch lati@s. If you want to use it to stall for extra turns of passive damage, Substitute rewards switching more and protect rewards staying in more, a combo of those two outshine Phantom Force's ability to stall extra damage. So basically, it's to use it on a predicted switch-in that you could nail (like Lati@s) and then force another pokemon in to take the hit. There are a few problems with this:
1. You're piss weak, you're not pressuring anything not weak to ghost.
2. 99% of the time you will achieve better or equal results by just subbing on the switch. From there you could protect more or start to be annoying.
3. While not having an attacking move sucks, you're so weak you're taunt bait either way. As if you weren't weak enough, you hit every other turn.

The scenario of using phantom force on the turn a slower Pokemon's attacks is pretty flawed. If you do have burn/Leech Seed on a slower pokemon, they probably don't want to stay in (you force a good amount of switches) and you are better off subbing. If they are faster but can't hurt you, you should be protecting. With Phantom force you have to take a hit or suffer passive damage before disappearing. Even if try to set up and you protect, while you did make a misplay, you wouldn't be in a much better position if you used Phantom Force. If the pokemon setting up can take the attack (pretty much every set up sweeper can do this), that's 2 free turns you've given up. So the "Phantom Force>Protect because Protect makes you fodder argument is fairly invalid." If they are faster and can hurt you, you should be switching either way. If they are slower and can hurt you, read the 5th paragraph.

Basically, just use Sub whenever you'd use Phantom Force and 99% of the time you will get better if not equal results.

Also what happened to your avatar i liked the messy bellsprout better :/
 
Small nitpick but Timid should be the first slash as Jolly gives no advantages if Protect is ran over Seed Bomb, whereas Timid reduces Foul Play and Confusion damage.
 
This is pretty good so most of my comments are just nitpicks.

Overview

You may not have the great bulk the eldest brings to the table, Gourgeist-S possesses a great 99 base speed, letting it burn slower threats like Bisharp, Scizor, Dragonite, Excadrill, and even Kyurem-B before they attack.
Click to expand...
I know this is GP's job, but you're missing a but.
Gourgeist's unique Ghost / Grass typing gives you the edge on popular threats such as Excadrill and Azumarill, and your solid base 122 defense won't let you down.
Click to expand...
I feel like examples aren't necessary, especially considering it's neutral to one of the STABs of both. Just say good defensive typing.

Defensive Spinblocker

Can you just rename this set SubSeeder? Spinblocker's kind of a smaller niche and not all of what it does. Also, Mitchhhhhh has a fair point, slash Timid first, but keep Jolly on since Seed Bomb is still an option.

What this set aims to do is switch-in on resisted hits and use one of the first 3 moves listed, whichever one you think would put you in the best position.
Click to expand...
That's more of a Usage Tip, just explain what each move does.

Mention a Max Speed spread in Set Details for Hydreigon, which you can stall out with Substitute and Leech Seed if it switches into you.

I think a Usage Tip about being wary of Pursuit would be good too.

Lati@s
Click to expand...
That's not okay.

Also, when you give examples, you should use such as, not like.

Mention Explosion and why it's not so good in OO.

Tag me when you implement these and I'll stamp.
 
I wouldn't be so wary of pursuit users when you can outspeed and burn all of them. You will take major damage yes, but the pursuiter will be crippled, and it's generally not a good idea to even try to pursuit trap Gourgeist-S.
Everything else has been implemented!
Also how do you tag people...
 
Thanks!
All right, this is ready for GP checks now!
 
What pumpkin?
Additions
Removals
(Comments)
Overview
########

While the littlest brother smallest sibling (you seem to waver between both male and gender neutral, as well as even second person, throughout the analysis, I'm just going to change them all to neutral) may be outshined by the eldest, don't let his its puny size fool you. You Gourgeist-S may not have the great bulk that the eldest forme brings to the table, but Gourgeist-S it possesses a great 99 base speed, letting it burn slower threats like such as Bisharp, Scizor, Dragonite, Excadrill, and even Kyurem-B before they can attack. Gourgeist's unique Ghost / Grass typing and your its solid base 122 defense won't let you down against physical threats. Its ability to shrug off almost anything Excadrill has to offer and burn it before it can do anything retaliate ("anything" is used only a few words previous) leaves Gourgeist-S as one of the best spin-blockers spinblockers in the tier.

However, this little pumpkin is not without its flaws. His Its lackluster base 55 base HP and base 75 base Special Defense leaves him it very vulnerable to special attacks, and a weak base 85 base attack Attack doesn't give him Gourgeist-S any real attacking offensive presence, making it easy set-up fodder for some pokemon. Its Leech Seeds and Will-O-Wisps attract Fire- and Grass-types like a magnet, and Gourgeist-S is forced out by most pokemon of both types them. Powerful special attackers like such as Keldeo can 2HKO our this little vegetable even with resisted attacks!. (Hardly the place for enthusiasm.) But don't let this discourage you from using him Gourgeist-S, his as its combination of spin blocking spinblocking, spreading fast burns, and Sub-seeding SubSeeding, all while being reasonably bulky, is no combination you can not one to ignore.


SubSeeder SubSeed
########

Name: SubSeeder SubSeed
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Protect / Seed Bomb
ability: Frisk
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 Spe
nature: Timid/Jolly

Moves
========

Will-O-Wisp lets you Gourgeist-S neuter physical attackers hoping to dent you it and wears can quickly wear down defensive Pokemon fast. Leech Seed is used as your its main source of healing and as well as another source of passive damage that forces plenty of switches. Substitute is used to turn you turns Gourgeist-S into an annoying yet and effective Sub-Seeder SubSeeder, scouting out moves and offering you it a layer of protection against status and strong attacks. The last move is a toss up between Protect and Seed Bomb. The former can be used to rack up passive damage with Leech Seed and Will-O-Wisp, and can as well as add a factor of mind-games some mind games to the battle, which can leave you in a very advantageous position. Protect, combined with Frisk, also turns you Gourgeist-S into an amazing scout, informing you of items and the move the opponent is locked into, allowing you to respond accordingly without risking needing any prediction. Seed Bomb can be used if being total Taunt bait bothers you (you're although Gourgeist-S is pretty much Taunt bait either way). Pain Split deserves a mention for offering semi-reliable recovery and making you Gourgeist-S incredibly annoying vs. Stall against stall teams, but if you have time to use Pain Split you're usually better off any free turns are best spent using one of the first 3 moves anyway.

Set Details
========

224 Speed EVs are used to outpace max speed Speed Kyurem-B, with the rest is dumped into HP and Defense. Frisk, in conjunction with Protect, turns Gourgeist-S into an amazing scout, allowing it to scout for discover (too much use of "scout") possible choice Choice items, using and use Protect to scout moves, and then allowing you to respond accordingly. Leftovers is mandatory as Gourgeist-S does not have access to reliable recovery, and passive recovery is very helpful. A set with max speed Speed to outpace and stall out Hydreigon with Substitute and Leech Seed is an option, but it's rarely worth it as Hydreigon is fairly rare.

Usage Tips
========

What this set aims to do is switch-in switch in on resisted hits and use one whichever of the first 3 moves listed, whichever one that you think would put you in the best position. While Leech Seed and Will-O-Wisp are great moves to annoy the opposing team, if they have Pokemon like such as Heatran and or Mega Venusaur to absorb the moves and threaten you Gourgeist-S out, you should refrain from using them. A better play would be to double switch or just scout with Substitute or Protect. Speaking of Protect, use it wisely, as a skilled player can predict when you use it and use the free turn to either switch or set up while you Protect. Substitute protects you Gourgeist-S from most of what pokemon like Pokemon such as Rotom-W and Chansey can do that are only threatening through status, so get a Substitute up on against them first. Use Frisk to your advantage by bringing Gourgeist-S in on physical attackers that it can handle so that you can safely learn their item. Finally, even if it means sacrificing Gourgeist-S, don't be afraid to burn a crucial threat like Kyurem-B or Bisharp.

Team Options
========

Gourgeist-S is a superb spinblocker, so pair it with hazards hazard setters. Bisharp can discourage discourages Defog, and Gourgeist-S takes can take the Fighting- and Ground- type moves Ground-type attacks aimed at Bisharp too. Gourgeist-S has sub-par special defense Special Defense, so pairing it with special tanks like such as Heatran and Tyranitar can patch up its weaknesses up. Gourgeist-S has excellent synergy with Tyranitar in particular, taking Fighting-, and Ground-type moves, weak as well as weaker Bug-, and weak Steel-type moves, for Tyranitar, while it can take Fire-, Flying-, Ghost-, and Dark-type moves aimed at Gourgeist-S. The swift pumpkin also hates status, so pairing it with a cleric like such as Sylveon or Chansey that can take special hits and heal status is a good idea. Fire-type sweepers like such as Mega Charizard-X and Talonflame can come in and set up on Gourgeist-S easily, so have a good response to them, such as Landorus-T.

Other Options
########

Destiny Bond can be used to surprise slower attackers. A Trick Scarf TrickScarf set can even be used with Trick, (seems a bit too obvious) Destiny Bond, Will-O-Wisp, and Seed Bomb, but Rotom-W plays the role of a Utility Scarfer better. Phantom Force can be used as an attacking move that also stalls extra turns of burn and Leech Seed damage, but it's easy to play around. Fire Blast can be used to surprise Scizor and Ferrothorn, but it is still very weak. Shadow Sneak can be used as priority, but it makes for a very weak attacking option. Rock Slide can be used to hit Fire-types, but it suffers the same issues issue. The only attack, if any, that should be used is Seed Bomb. Sub-Disable SubDisable is a cool strategy, but it is often outclassed in this regard by other Pokemon such as Gengar. If Dark Void and Hypnosis concern you, Gourgeist-S can use Insomnia over Frisk. Toxic could be used to cripple switch-ins attempting to soak up the Will-O-Wisp, like such as Latios and Latias. Even Explosion can be used, to go out with a bang and inflict as much damage as you can possible, but Gourgeist-S's pathetic attack Attack stat leaves it super weak. Explosion is better used on Gourgeist-XL, who has a more usable base 100 base attack Attack stat.

Checks & Counters
########
In general, threats that don't mind Leech Seed or Will-O-Wisp will not have any problems with Gourgeist. (This sentence seemed more fitting here, although it probably deserves its own section.)

**Fire-types**
Most Fire- types Fire-types, such as Heatran Talonflame, and both Mega Charizards, can switch in easily come in and do whatever they want, like Heatran, Talonflame, and both Mega Charizards. Heatran might not like the passive damage from Leech Seed, but it can get the Flash Fire boost from Will-O-Wisp.

**Strong Special Attackers**
Strong Special special attackers like such as Gengar and Greninja can outright OHKO Gourgeist-S easily.

**Fast users of Substitute Users**
Gourgeist-S is also helpless against fast users of Substitute, like such as Gengar and Thundurus. They can simply hide behind it and either set up/kill or KO as Gourgeist-S cannot do anything back.

**Taunt**
Pokemon with Taunt that can take a Seed Bomb can also shut down Gourgeist-S. Crobat in particular can shut it down with Taunt, Roost off damage from Seed Bomb (or any other attack) and kill it through its Substitute with a Brave Bird.

**Bulky Grasses Grass-types**
Gourgeist-S cannot touch grasses with Grass-types that have reliable recovery, like such as Mega Venusaur, Chesnaught, Celebi, and Trevenant, although the former 2 might may not like the burn getting burned.

**Magic Guard**
Magic Guard pokemon like Pokemon such as Clefable and Reuniclus can also set up on Gourgeist-S with ease. Even a Phantom Force is manageable since Reuniclus can use Recover on the turn it that disappears.

In general, if you don't mind Leech Seed or Will-O-Wisp, Gourgeist-S will not be a problem.
Overview
########

While the smallest sibling may be outshined by the eldest, don't let its puny size fool you. Gourgeist-S may not have the great bulk that the eldest forme brings to the table, but it possesses a great 99 base speed, letting it burn slower threats such as Bisharp, Scizor, Dragonite, Excadrill, and even Kyurem-B before they can attack. Gourgeist's unique Ghost / Grass typing and its solid base 122 defense won't let you down against physical threats. Its ability to shrug off almost anything Excadrill has to offer and burn it before it can retaliate leaves Gourgeist-S as one of the best spinblockers in the tier.

However, this little pumpkin is not without its flaws. Its lackluster base 55 HP and base 75 Special Defense leaves it very vulnerable to special attacks, and a weak base 85 Attack doesn't give Gourgeist-S any real offensive presence, making it easy set-up fodder for some pokemon. Its Leech Seeds and Will-O-Wisps attract Fire- and Grass-types like a magnet, and Gourgeist-S is forced out by most of them. Powerful special attackers such as Keldeo can 2HKO this little vegetable even with resisted attacks. But don't let this discourage you from using Gourgeist-S, as its combination of spinblocking, spreading fast burns, and SubSeeding, all while being reasonably bulky, is not one to ignore.


SubSeed
########

Name: SubSeed
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Protect / Seed Bomb
ability: Frisk
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 Spe
nature: Timid/Jolly

Moves
========

Will-O-Wisp lets Gourgeist-S neuter physical attackers hoping to dent it and can quickly wear down defensive Pokemon. Leech Seed is its main source of healing as well as another source of passive damage that forces plenty of switches. Substitute turns Gourgeist-S into an annoying and effective SubSeeder, scouting out moves and offering it a layer of protection against status and strong attacks. The last move is a toss up between Protect and Seed Bomb. The former can be used to rack up passive damage with Leech Seed and Will-O-Wisp, as well as add some mind games to the battle, which can leave you in a very advantageous position. Protect, combined with Frisk, also turns Gourgeist-S into an amazing scout, informing you of items and the move the opponent is locked into, allowing you to respond accordingly without needing any prediction. Seed Bomb can be used if being total Taunt bait bothers you (although Gourgeist-S is pretty much Taunt bait either way). Pain Split deserves a mention for offering semi-reliable recovery and making Gourgeist-S incredibly annoying against stall teams, but any free turns are best spent using one of the first 3 moves anyway.

Set Details
========

224 Speed EVs are used to outpace max Speed Kyurem-B, with the rest dumped into HP and Defense. Frisk, in conjunction with Protect, turns Gourgeist-S into an amazing scout, allowing it to discover possible Choice items and use Protect to scout moves, allowing you to respond accordingly. Leftovers is mandatory as Gourgeist-S does not have access to reliable recovery, and passive recovery is very helpful. A set with max Speed to outpace and stall out Hydreigon with Substitute and Leech Seed is an option, but it's rarely worth it as Hydreigon is fairly rare.

Usage Tips
========

What this set aims to do is switch in on resisted hits and use whichever of the first 3 moves listed that you think would put you in the best position. While Leech Seed and Will-O-Wisp are great moves to annoy the opposing team, if they have Pokemon such as Heatran or Mega Venusaur to absorb the moves and threaten Gourgeist-S out, you should refrain from using them. A better play would be to double switch or just scout with Substitute or Protect. Speaking of Protect, use it wisely, as a skilled player can predict when you use it and use the free turn to either switch or set up. Substitute protects Gourgeist-S from Pokemon such as Rotom-W and Chansey that are only threatening through status, so get a Substitute up against them first. Use Frisk to your advantage by bringing Gourgeist-S in on physical attackers that it can handle so that you can safely learn their item. Finally, even if it means sacrificing Gourgeist-S, don't be afraid to burn a crucial threat like Kyurem-B or Bisharp.

Team Options
========

Gourgeist-S is a superb spinblocker, so pair it with hazard setters. Bisharp discourages Defog, and Gourgeist-S can take the Fighting- and Ground-type attacks aimed at Bisharp. Gourgeist-S has sub-par Special Defense, so pairing it with special tanks such as Heatran and Tyranitar can patch up its weaknesses. Gourgeist-S has excellent synergy with Tyranitar in particular, taking Fighting- and Ground-type moves, as well as weaker Bug- and Steel-type moves, for Tyranitar, while it can take Fire-, Flying-, Ghost-, and Dark-type moves aimed at Gourgeist-S. The swift pumpkin also hates status, so pairing it with a cleric such as Sylveon or Chansey that can take special hits and heal status is a good idea. Fire-type sweepers such as Mega Charizard-X and Talonflame can come in and set up on Gourgeist-S easily, so have a good response to them, such as Landorus-T.

Other Options
########

Destiny Bond can be used to surprise slower attackers. A TrickScarf set can even be used with Destiny Bond, Will-O-Wisp, and Seed Bomb, but Rotom-W plays the role of a Utility Scarfer better. Phantom Force can be used as an attacking move that also stalls extra turns of burn and Leech Seed damage, but it's easy to play around. Fire Blast can be used to surprise Scizor and Ferrothorn, but it is still very weak. Shadow Sneak can be used as priority, but it makes for a very weak attacking option. Rock Slide can be used to hit Fire-types, but it suffers the same issue. The only attack, if any, that should be used is Seed Bomb. SubDisable is a cool strategy, but it is often outclassed in this regard by other Pokemon such as Gengar. If Dark Void and Hypnosis concern you, Gourgeist-S can use Insomnia over Frisk. Toxic be used to cripple switch-ins attempting to soak up the Will-O-Wisp, such as Latios and Latias. Even Explosion can be used to go out with a bang and inflict as much damage as possible, but Gourgeist-S's pathetic Attack stat leaves it super weak. Explosion is better used on Gourgeist-XL, who has a more usable base 100 Attack stat.

Checks & Counters
########

In general, threats that don't mind Leech Seed or Will-O-Wisp will not have any problems with Gourgeist-S.

**Fire-types**
Most Fire-types, such as Heatran Talonflame, and both Mega Charizards, can switch in easily and do whatever they want. Heatran might not like the passive damage from Leech Seed, but it can get the Flash Fire boost from Will-O-Wisp.

**Strong Special Attackers**
Strong special attackers such as Gengar and Greninja can OHKO Gourgeist-S easily.

**Fast Substitute Users**
Gourgeist-S is also helpless against fast users of Substitute, such as Gengar and Thundurus. They can simply hide behind it and either set up or KO as Gourgeist-S cannot do anything back.

**Taunt**
Pokemon with Taunt that can take a Seed Bomb can also shut down Gourgeist-S. Crobat in particular can shut it down with Taunt, Roost off damage from Seed Bomb (or any other attack) and kill it through its Substitute with Brave Bird.

**Bulky Grass-types**
Gourgeist-S cannot touch Grass-types that have reliable recovery, such as Mega Venusaur, Chesnaught, Celebi, and Trevenant, although the former 2 may not like getting burned.

**Magic Guard**
Magic Guard Pokemon such as Clefable and Reuniclus can also set up on Gourgeist-S with ease. Even a Phantom Force is manageable since Reuniclus can use Recover on the turn it that disappears.
LUGPstamp.gif

GP approved 1/2
 
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