Greninja QC [4/3] GP [2/2]

https://gonefroggin.wordpress.com/2016/02/17/frog-or-toad-21716/
It is obviously a frog.

[OVERVIEW]

Greninja is generally a very niche Pokemon on Doubles teams due to its average offenses, which prevent it from getting many of the KOs it should and generally make other Pokemon better for the role of a strong attacker. It is also vulnerable to speed control and priority, as it has very low power and relies on its high Speed to get by, and most Pokemon faster than it can KO or do massive damage to it, such as Talonflame, Deoxys-A, and Choice Scarf Landorus-T. It does have a niche on hail teams, however, as Protean allows it to spam powerful STAB Blizzards while its high base Speed allows it to outpace Pokemon such as Mega Diancie, Latios, and Thundurus. It is able to beat most Pokemon that hail teams have trouble with as well thanks to its Water-, Rock-, and Fighting-type STAB moves and decent mixed attacking stats.

[SET]
name: Hail Attacker
move 1: Blizzard
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Rock Slide / Low Kick
move 4: Protect
item: Life Orb
ability: Protean
nature: Naive
evs: 64 Atk / 236 SpA / 208 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Blizzard can be very easily spammed under hail, as it can hit both foes with perfect accuracy and is a powerful move. It also has great type coverage against many Pokemon, such as Landorus and Hydreigon. Hydro Pump is used so that Greninja can pick up a quick KO against Rock- and Fire-type Pokemon that threaten Mega Abomasnow. Rock Slide can OHKO Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y, discouraging them from switching in. Low Kick is an option to hit Mega Kangaskhan, Ferrothorn, and Heatran more reliably than Hydro Pump for super effective damage. Protect is a staple move in Doubles, allowing Greninja to stall out field conditions or protect itself while its ally deals with a threat.

Set Details
========

208 Speed EVs with a Naive nature are enough for Greninja to outspeed Whimsicott, Raikou, and more importantly Pokemon such as Thundurus and Mega Diancie. 64 Attack EVs let Greninja OHKO standard Heatran with Low Kick as well as bulky Mega Charizard Y with Rock Slide, while the rest of the EVs are put into Special Attack to power up Blizzard as much as possible. Life Orb significantly boosts Greninja's overall mixed-attacking prowess and offensive potential.

Usage Tips
=========

Greninja's main role is using Blizzard while dealing with common checks to hail teams thanks to its coverage. Greninja can be used either to whittle them down early on or to clean up late-game with Blizzard when its checks and other threatening Pokemon have been weakened enough for Blizzard to KO them. Greninja should use its coverage moves to hit many of the threats to the hail archetype, such as using Low Kick against Steel-types and Kangaskhan and using Rock Slide against Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame. Greninja should be brought in when there is a free switch due to its frailty.

Team Options
==========

Mega Abomasnow is required as a partner for Greninja to work at all, as it sets up hail for Greninja to spam Blizzard, and Greninja wouldn't be viable without its support. Ground-types like Landorus-T and Fire-types such as Heatran and Talonflame are good partners for Greninja, since they can KO the Steel-types that threaten hail teams. Electric-types such as Thundurus are also good partners, since they can beat Water-types, which Greninja struggles against. Quick Guard support from Pokemon such as Terrakion and Virizion is greatly appreciated for Greninja, as it hates taking priority attacks.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
================

Dark Pulse can be used to hit Aegislash and Jirachi, which can both take a Blizzard or one of Greninja's other coverage moves. Extrasensory can OHKO Fighting-types such as Keldeo, which are some of hail teams' biggest checks. Gunk Shot can be used to hit Sylveon and Gardevoir, both of which have high Special Defense and can take Greninja's special hits.

Checks and Counters
==============

**Typing Advantage**: Since Greninja will be spamming Blizzard most of the time and has low offenses, most Pokemon that resist Blizzard will be able to do a lot of damage back to Greninja. This group includes Water-types and Steel-types that resist Low Kick. Most Steel-types have to look out for Low Kick, however, as it hits them super effectively.

**Opposing Weather**: To be able to spam its best move, Blizzard, Greninja absolutely needs to have hail up, meaning that opposing weather setters, such as Mega Charizard Y and Politoed, can make it much less effective just by switching in. Sun also weakens Greninja's Hydro Pump.

**Speed**: Due to Greninja's low defenses, most powerful Choice Scarf users, such as Landorus-T and Kyurem-B, can OHKO it, making it a liability against teams that have Choice Scarf users. It is also weak to common priority users such as Talonflame and Mega Kangaskhan.

**Speed Control**: Since Greninja's best quality is its Speed, being slowed down by the likes of Thunder Wave from Thundurus and Gyarados can easily prevent it from doing its job. Its high Speed will also always make it go last under Trick Room, and Greninja has a hard time dealing with Trick Room setters such as Cresselia and Porygon2, making it lose against these types of teams. When Tailwind is set up by setters such as Suicune, Greninja will be outsped and easily KOed. Icy Wind from Pokemon such as Jirachi and Keldeo can also lower Greninja's effectiveness by lowering its Speed.

**Utility**: Two of Greninja's best moves, Blizzard and Rock Slide, are blocked by Wide Guard users such as Aegislash and Conkeldurr.




Don't edit my posts Arcticblast
 
Last edited:

Checkmater

It’s just us kittens left, and the rain is coming
is a Tiering Contributor
Take these as laycomments or wait for a wild qc member to come along and give it a stamp



[OVERVIEW]

Good on mentioning weaknesses but highlight some of its strengths: unique coverage (water, poison, rock), faster than diancie (as compared to keldeo*)

I don't know if a general comparison to other special attackers is valid, mentioning Char Y / Kyube invites a side-by side comparison, but they're not the same thing. Comparing to keldeo is probably very good, but the stuff you're getting in on the comparison to Char Y / Kyube can just be said as weak points, ie "has low bulk and poor offenses compared to other special attackers)

Also maybe mention protean somewhere in the overview, maybe along with coverage mention

[SET]

This set definitely needs to be revised. Obviously talk to QC but:
1) Blizzard shouldn't be main. It should be ice beam and some kind of oo / moves mention for blizzard if you're on hail?
2) There are so many other options: Rock Slide, Gunk, Low Kick, even water shuriken that easily compete with dark pulse to be main set.


[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • Again, set needs to be revised

Usage Tips
========
  • "Greninja should generally be used in late-game situations..." If you want to say "use it late game" say stuff like when its checks have been eliminated. Also I don't know if this is true tbh
  • "Greninja needs support from Abomasnow and or..." This should be a team options mention?
Team Options
========

  • Somewhere in this highlight offensive mons (talon, thundy) that don't like diancie, as in comparison to the other offensive water greninja beats Diancie.


Checks and Counters
===================

**Strong Physical Attackers**: Due to Greninja's low defense, most powerful physical attackers, such as Mega-Diancie, Mega-Khangaskhan, and Landorus-T, can OHKO it.

**Strong Special Attackers**: Due to Greninja's low special defense, most powerful special attackers, such as Charizard-Y and Aegislash, can easily OHKO it.

p sure you can't have both of these
 
Last edited:

talkingtree

large if factual
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SCL Champion
Okay there's a decent number of issues with what check is saying in comparison to what QC is looking for so just ignore his post and do my check here - I'll probably take a couple of check's points but the set he's recommending isn't the one we want.

  • [Overview] Avoid saying anything that will be immediately obvious from looking at Greninja's dex entry - for example, you can just say that Greninja has decent mixed attacking stats, especially when backed by Protean.
  • [Overview] The Keldeo comparison is definitely necessary - but focus on that instead of talking about the other two. Keldeo is more reliable in most situations because it has some actual bulk, hits harder, and has some utility, despite being slightly slower.
  • [Set] Talked it over with the rest of the QC Team - Blizzard / Low Kick / Hydro Pump or Rock Slide / Protect should be the moveset, with 64 Atk / 236 SpA / 208 Spe and a Naive nature as the EV spread. Also, get rid of Focus Sash - you're operating in Hail so it will be broken anyway.
  • [Moves] This should reflect the new moveset - Low Kick is primarily for Heatran, but also hits Mega Kangaskhan and Ferrothorn decently hard. Rock Slide is almost exclusively for Mega Charizard Y, possibly hail's biggest enemy. Hydro is because Mega Diancie is everywhere, and it's Greninja's strongest attack to hit neutral targets with.
  • [Moves] "Protect is a staple move in doubles, allowing Greninja to stall out field conditions or Protect itself while its partner deals with a threat" <- kind of generic, but that's what the fourth bullet point should read.
  • [Set Details] The spread I gave above outspeeds Whimsicott and Raikou, as well as anything slower like Thundurus and Mega Diancie. Then, 64 EVs are placed in Attack to guarantee the Low Kick OHKO on standard Heatran, and the rest are placed into SpA to power up Blizzard. 64 Atk also OHKOs bulky Zard with Rock Slide, so the EVs don't need to change as a result of your third move choice.
  • [Usage Tips] Greninja should be used to spam Blizzard whenever it can, as well as to remove any threats it can with the coverage moves it carries. It works well during any part of the game, provided that Hail is up. While it can operate outside of Hail, that leaves it unable to click Blizzard, which hurts. However, just talk about Hail needing to be up - not the pokemon that could set it, as that belongs in Team Options.
  • [Team Options] Get rid of the Amoonguss mention - it doesn't really operate well on a style as offensive as Blizzspam, and Greninja doesn't need redirection more than any other Pokemon.
  • [Team Options] Keldeo as a Quick Guard user would be overlapping a lot of coverage - change this to Terrak or Scrafty
  • [Other Options] Dark Pulse should be moved here, for hitting Aegislash that could otherwise click Wide Guard to prevent Blizzspam
  • [Other Options] Your point about Extrasensory makes it seem like Fighting-types resist Blizzard... reword this please.
  • [Other Options] Talk about Mat Block and why it *SHOULD NOT* be used.
  • [Other Options] Water Shuriken is your best option against Talonflame... but you also need 4 hits in order to KO it so it's not a reliable answer.
  • [Checks and Counters] Check out the C&C Guide, as it has a list of tags that can be used. I would include Typing Advantage, Opposing Weather, Speed, and Speed Control at the very least. I could also see a case for Utility, talking about Wide Guard users blocking Blizzard and Rock Slide.

Get this^ done and then tag me so that I can give this another look over before 1/3
 
Okay there's a decent number of issues with what check is saying in comparison to what QC is looking for so just ignore his post and do my check here - I'll probably take a couple of check's points but the set he's recommending isn't the one we want.

  • [Overview] Avoid saying anything that will be immediately obvious from looking at Greninja's dex entry - for example, you can just say that Greninja has decent mixed attacking stats, especially when backed by Protean.
  • [Overview] The Keldeo comparison is definitely necessary - but focus on that instead of talking about the other two. Keldeo is more reliable in most situations because it has some actual bulk, hits harder, and has some utility, despite being slightly slower.
  • [Set] Talked it over with the rest of the QC Team - Blizzard / Low Kick / Hydro Pump or Rock Slide / Protect should be the moveset, with 64 Atk / 236 SpA / 208 Spe and a Naive nature as the EV spread. Also, get rid of Focus Sash - you're operating in Hail so it will be broken anyway.
  • [Moves] This should reflect the new moveset - Low Kick is primarily for Heatran, but also hits Mega Kangaskhan and Ferrothorn decently hard. Rock Slide is almost exclusively for Mega Charizard Y, possibly hail's biggest enemy. Hydro is because Mega Diancie is everywhere, and it's Greninja's strongest attack to hit neutral targets with.
  • [Moves] "Protect is a staple move in doubles, allowing Greninja to stall out field conditions or Protect itself while its partner deals with a threat" <- kind of generic, but that's what the fourth bullet point should read.
  • [Set Details] The spread I gave above outspeeds Whimsicott and Raikou, as well as anything slower like Thundurus and Mega Diancie. Then, 64 EVs are placed in Attack to guarantee the Low Kick OHKO on standard Heatran, and the rest are placed into SpA to power up Blizzard. 64 Atk also OHKOs bulky Zard with Rock Slide, so the EVs don't need to change as a result of your third move choice.
  • [Usage Tips] Greninja should be used to spam Blizzard whenever it can, as well as to remove any threats it can with the coverage moves it carries. It works well during any part of the game, provided that Hail is up. While it can operate outside of Hail, that leaves it unable to click Blizzard, which hurts. However, just talk about Hail needing to be up - not the pokemon that could set it, as that belongs in Team Options.
  • [Team Options] Get rid of the Amoonguss mention - it doesn't really operate well on a style as offensive as Blizzspam, and Greninja doesn't need redirection more than any other Pokemon.
  • [Team Options] Keldeo as a Quick Guard user would be overlapping a lot of coverage - change this to Terrak or Scrafty
  • [Other Options] Dark Pulse should be moved here, for hitting Aegislash that could otherwise click Wide Guard to prevent Blizzspam
  • [Other Options] Your point about Extrasensory makes it seem like Fighting-types resist Blizzard... reword this please.
  • [Other Options] Talk about Mat Block and why it *SHOULD NOT* be used.
  • [Other Options] Water Shuriken is your best option against Talonflame... but you also need 4 hits in order to KO it so it's not a reliable answer.
  • [Checks and Counters] Check out the C&C Guide, as it has a list of tags that can be used. I would include Typing Advantage, Opposing Weather, Speed, and Speed Control at the very least. I could also see a case for Utility, talking about Wide Guard users blocking Blizzard and Rock Slide.

Get this^ done and then tag me so that I can give this another look over before 1/3
Added all of that in thetalkingtree
 

talkingtree

large if factual
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SCL Champion
Capitalize "Hydro Pump" in moves, in OO clarify that Ferrothorn doesn't resist Blizzard and also is already somewhat covered by Low Kick, and change to "Typing Advantage" in C&C, and you're good for QC 1/3
 

xzern

for sure
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Overview
  • i wouldn't consider latios, thundurus, and mega diancie as "base pokemon" speed-wise. i get what you mean, but it would be better to state that these are other prominent speedy threats that greninja can manage to outspeed.
  • the cool thing about using greninja on hail teams is that, by utilizing protean, its pretty much the only stab blizzard-spammer that can also directly beat heatran and some other fire types. mention this as its central niche.
  • remember that you dont have to/shouldnt mention specific stat numbers, i can find that directly at the top of the dex page. i.e. dont say "its very high base 122 speed...," say something along the lines of "its above average speed..."
  • the same goes for the mention of how frail it is at the end of your overview.
Moves
  • diancie and terrakion dont resist blizzard. rather, it would be more accurate to say that diancie, heatran, and terrakion aren't threatened by blizzard and would be able to take advantage of greninja turning ice type to eliminate it quickly, if not for hydro pump.
Usage Tips
  • greninja is not particularly threatening offensively; its not ohkoing a lot of things it hits neutrally. (see: mega kangaskhan, kyurem.) that being said, it should be used to spam blizzard mostly against weakened opponents and can function as a late game cleaner.
Team Options
  • abomasnow isnt just greninja's best partner, this set mandates it. greninja requires hail support from (mega) abomasnow so that it can always shoot off 100% accurate blizzards. it is not viable otherwise.
  • mention that landorus is also good for weakening opponents into blizzard's ohko range
  • scrafty isnt a common quick guard user, mention virizion here instead
Other Options
  • greninja can use ice beam instead of blizzard if not being used on hail, but if greninja isnt being used as a hail attacker then other water types (keldeo, azumarill) will usually be the better options
Checks & Counters
  • the most relevant sub users are kyurem and heatran, so i wouldnt mention sub users as greninja checks.

tag me when you implement so i can read over it once more and give 2/3
 
Last edited:

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Slight disagreement on the slashing/set recommending.

Hail Greninja absolutely wants Rock Slide and Hydro Pump. The single biggest threat to Hail teams is Char-Y. The second and third biggest threats are Heatran and Diancie. So if you're going to make the main set Blizzard, imo you've got to list it with those two moves.

Low Kick is also a good move on Greninja, but not particularly efficient on a Hail team. It doesn't actually OHKO even 4/0 Kangaskhan, much less bulky Kanga. This also ignores the fact that Greninja after ever using Blizzard or Hydro (or Rock Slide or Protect) gets hammered by this once it doesn't resist Dark:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 193-228 (67.7 - 80%)

It also doesn't come close to OHKOing Ferrothorn, who then OHKOs back with Gyro. Alternatively, Rock Slide and Hydro eviscerate the primary threats to Hail and do definitively force them out.

On other teams, sure Greninja has a wealth of options to choose from, depending on what you need covered. But for Hail, Blizz/Hydro/Slide should be the set.



P.S. I don't know where this perception that Ferrothorn beats Hail teams even comes from. It doesn't do shit to damage Aboma:
252+ SpA Mega Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 132-156 (37.5 - 44.3%)
172+ Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (36 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Abomasnow: 96-114 (25 - 29.6%)
 
Overview
  • i wouldn't consider latios, thundurus, and mega diancie as "base pokemon" speed-wise. i get what you mean, but it would be better to state that these are other prominent speedy threats that greninja can manage to outspeed.
  • the cool thing about using greninja on hail teams is that, by utilizing protean, its pretty much the only stab blizzard-spammer that can also directly beat heatran and some other fire types. mention this as its central niche.
  • remember that you dont have to/shouldnt mention specific stat numbers, i can find that directly at the top of the dex page. i.e. dont say "its very high base 122 speed...," say something along the lines of "its above average speed..."
  • the same goes for the mention of how frail it is at the end of your overview.
Moves
  • diancie and terrakion dont resist blizzard. rather, it would be more accurate to say that diancie, heatran, and terrakion aren't threatened by blizzard and would be able to take advantage of greninja turning ice type to eliminate it quickly, if not for hydro pump.
Usage Tips
  • greninja is not particularly threatening offensively; its not ohkoing a lot of things it hits neutrally. (see: mega kangaskhan, kyurem.) that being said, it should be used to spam blizzard mostly against weakened opponents and can function as a late game cleaner.
Team Options
  • abomasnow isnt just greninja's best partner, this set mandates it. greninja requires hail support from (mega) abomasnow so that it can always shoot off 100% accurate blizzards. it is not viable otherwise.
  • mention that landorus is also good for weakening opponents into blizzard's ohko range
  • scrafty isnt a common quick guard user, mention virizion here instead
Other Options
  • greninja can use ice beam instead of blizzard if not being used on hail, but if greninja isnt being used as a hail attacker then other water types (keldeo, azumarill) will usually be the better options
Checks & Counters
  • the most relevant sub users are kyurem and heatran, so i wouldnt mention sub users as greninja checks.

tag me when you implement so i can read over it once more and give 2/3
Added, as well as fixed up the set according to Bughouse's suggestions.
xzern
 

xzern

for sure
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
  • "Greninja has a unique niche on hail due to the fact that thanks to Protean, it can beat many of the fire and steel types that threaten hail due to it's water, fire, and fighting coverage." greninja doesnt have fire coverage
  • also (in moves) ferrothorn & co dont "easily beat" hail teams, it would be more accurate to call them just "threatening"

2/3


you can write this up now
 

talkingtree

large if factual
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SCL Champion
-Tynamo- xzern gave you a couple more points to implement - can you implement those and update the title so that I know you're writing it up with the correct info? Thanks!
 

talkingtree

large if factual
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SCL Champion
Hey -Tynamo- just letting you know the deadline for writeup is in 4 days. If you have a reason that you won't be able to get this written by then, please just let me know. However, if you don't, and this still isn't done by then, I'll have to reassign !_!
 

Idyll

xD
is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
RBTT Champion
OV
  • Its defense stats aren't exactly the biggest reason why it's a niche mon, though it certainly is a factor. The biggest thing is that its offensive stats are only average for an attacker, which is kinda bad since having an attacker that can't get much KOes sucks. This point should come first.
  • Saying that it's outclassed by Keldeo specifically is a bit off. Just say that it's a weak for an attacker in general, making other picks generally better.
Moves
  • Include a bit about saying Blizzard that it's a generally powerful move.
  • Pokemon are not "killed" but are "KOed"
  • Also, just generally mention that Hydro Pump lets Greninja pick up swift KOs on Rock- and Fire-types such as Mega Diancie and Heatran, which are threats to Mega Abomasnow.
  • Simply saying "great" to describe Rock Slide is kinda lacking. Just say that it's a decently powerful spread attack.
  • Also, just simply say that it can pick up a quick KO first, before delving in on how the threat can deter them from switching in. This particularly important because of Zard Y.
  • It'd be good to mention here that LK is a safer move against Heatran than Hydro due to having better accuracy.
Set Details
  • Make sure to note that the Mega Diancie and co. are the more important targets for the Speed investment. Adding something like "more importantly" would work.
Usage Tips
  • Is this really it? I know that you can write up a whole LOT more about Gren. What kind of teams does it fit in, and why? What does it do in said teams? What kind of plays should I make? When should I use my coverage moves? How should I play Gren? Seriously though, put some more beef into this please.
  • "However, Greninja isn’t particularly strong, being unable to KO a lot of neutrally offensive threats, so it should be used as a late-game cleaner." - mention that this is because most foes should have been weakened enough for Blizzard to get the KO.
  • You could also mention that Blizzard can help whittle down foes and rack up damage early on.
TO
  • Just say Mega Abomasnow straight up, remove those parentheses. Reg Aboma sucks, anyway.
  • I think this section is kinda off too because, instead of mentioning generalities, the analysis goes off to recommend specific mons. We want our readers to be able to make their own teams with their own choices using our analyses as a guide. Giving exact mons is fine if the niche is so specific, but the problem is that this section is basically mentions of three specific mons (all of which are fine except Talon btw). I want you to expand this to something more. You can add stuff like "Elecs check Waters which Greninja has difficulty dealing with" and "fire-types such as x y z to deal with Steel-types effectively" etc
OO
  • When you mention Fighting-types in ESensory's bit, specifically say OHKO with a super effective STAB move.
  • Remove HP Fire.
  • Don't mention Mat Block here. The intention is good but this section is for telling why certain options are viables, not why certain options are shit.
C&C
  • The first sentence's phrasing's off. Also, you're going too specific isn't of generalizing. You could p much say Water-types and Steels that aren't weak to LK and your list would still be intact.
  • Speed Control doesn't have a dash. Thunder Wave also doesn't have a dash
  • Mention Tailwind as well, since that also takes away Greninja's Speed advantage. Also, find a way to mention Icy Wind last as that is the least relevant of all Speed Control options.
  • Mention Conk as a Wide Guard user as well.
I'll look into this again once it's implemented.
 
OV
  • Its defense stats aren't exactly the biggest reason why it's a niche mon, though it certainly is a factor. The biggest thing is that its offensive stats are only average for an attacker, which is kinda bad since having an attacker that can't get much KOes sucks. This point should come first.
  • Saying that it's outclassed by Keldeo specifically is a bit off. Just say that it's a weak for an attacker in general, making other picks generally better.
Moves
  • Include a bit about saying Blizzard that it's a generally powerful move.
  • Pokemon are not "killed" but are "KOed"
  • Also, just generally mention that Hydro Pump lets Greninja pick up swift KOs on Rock- and Fire-types such as Mega Diancie and Heatran, which are threats to Mega Abomasnow.
  • Simply saying "great" to describe Rock Slide is kinda lacking. Just say that it's a decently powerful spread attack.
  • Also, just simply say that it can pick up a quick KO first, before delving in on how the threat can deter them from switching in. This particularly important because of Zard Y.
  • It'd be good to mention here that LK is a safer move against Heatran than Hydro due to having better accuracy.
Set Details
  • Make sure to note that the Mega Diancie and co. are the more important targets for the Speed investment. Adding something like "more importantly" would work.
Usage Tips
  • Is this really it? I know that you can write up a whole LOT more about Gren. What kind of teams does it fit in, and why? What does it do in said teams? What kind of plays should I make? When should I use my coverage moves? How should I play Gren? Seriously though, put some more beef into this please.
  • "However, Greninja isn’t particularly strong, being unable to KO a lot of neutrally offensive threats, so it should be used as a late-game cleaner." - mention that this is because most foes should have been weakened enough for Blizzard to get the KO.
  • You could also mention that Blizzard can help whittle down foes and rack up damage early on.
TO
  • Just say Mega Abomasnow straight up, remove those parentheses. Reg Aboma sucks, anyway.
  • I think this section is kinda off too because, instead of mentioning generalities, the analysis goes off to recommend specific mons. We want our readers to be able to make their own teams with their own choices using our analyses as a guide. Giving exact mons is fine if the niche is so specific, but the problem is that this section is basically mentions of three specific mons (all of which are fine except Talon btw). I want you to expand this to something more. You can add stuff like "Elecs check Waters which Greninja has difficulty dealing with" and "fire-types such as x y z to deal with Steel-types effectively" etc
OO
  • When you mention Fighting-types in ESensory's bit, specifically say OHKO with a super effective STAB move.
  • Remove HP Fire.
  • Don't mention Mat Block here. The intention is good but this section is for telling why certain options are viables, not why certain options are shit.
C&C
  • The first sentence's phrasing's off. Also, you're going too specific isn't of generalizing. You could p much say Water-types and Steels that aren't weak to LK and your list would still be intact.
  • Speed Control doesn't have a dash. Thunder Wave also doesn't have a dash
  • Mention Tailwind as well, since that also takes away Greninja's Speed advantage. Also, find a way to mention Icy Wind last as that is the least relevant of all Speed Control options.
  • Mention Conk as a Wide Guard user as well.
I'll look into this again once it's implemented.
Implemented all of this while rewriting the Usage Tips section to reflect your suggestions.
 

Yoda2798

Not the user you are looking for
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Doubles Leader
Do this and tag me for 3/3 (I'll stamp it once you've implemented and I've checked over).

Overview
  • Change Weavile mention to Scarf Landorus-T as it's far more common and can OHKO Greninja.
  • Mention that Greninja is extremely weak to speed control due to its frailty and reliance on its speed.
Set
  • Rename the set to "Hail Attacker".
Moves
  • Mention Blizzard's great type coverage.
Set Details
  • "Mega Charizard Y"
  • Mention Life Orb allowing Greninja to change moves.
Usage Tips
  • Remove the first sentence as you're saying why you would use Greninja more than how to use it. Instead, say that Greninja's main role is using Blizzard while dealing with hail's checks through with its coverage.
  • When talking about "cleaning late-game" mention having weakened the opposing team into Blizzard range.
  • Mention how Greninja should only be brought in on free switches because it's so frail.
Team Options
  • Remove the mention of Ground-types dealing with Rock- and Fire-types as Greninja already handles them with Hydro Pump. Also remove the mention of T-wave immunity as that doesn't specifically make them good teammates, it's mainly the first reason.
  • "Thanks to their generally high attacking stats, they can also easily wear down Greninja's checks to aid it in wearing down teams" - remove this setence as it is filler, also I wouldn't consider Gastrodon's base 92 Special Attack to be high.
  • Give examples of Electric-types.
  • When talking about Fire-types you say "are also good partners" twice.
  • Remove Talonflame from the list of Quick Guard users as it's a bad set.
Other Options
  • Mention Keldeo as an example of the Fighting-types hit by Extrasensory.
  • Remove Ice Beam as Greninja is only viable on hail.
Checks and Counters
  • Under Opposing Weather, mention that sun weakens Hydro Pump as well.
 

Yoda2798

Not the user you are looking for
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Doubles Leader
In the Moves section, again it's Mega Charizard Y when you are talking about Rock Slide, but otherwise good job and ready for GP!

3/3
(stole this from talkingtree since it looks funny)
 

Idyll

xD
is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
RBTT Champion
Moves
  • "Rock Slide is a decently powerful spread move that can pick up a quick KO while discouraging Talonflame and Mega Charizard-Y from switching in." You have to rephrase this lol. It's doesn't KO while discouraging them, it's that because it can pick up a quick KO they get discouraged from switching in.
  • Say something about Low Kick being an option or alternative or whatever, since it's just a slash. Condense the two sentences about it into one.
SD
  • You don't have to mention that LO allows it to change moves @_@ since being allowed to switch moves is only natural. You only need to mention that it boosts Gren's offensive potential.
UT
  • I guess this is better than what we had before. It's still a tad-bit barebones though, but it's okay Gren isn't that relevant ;0
  • You could go a bit more in-depth about the "use coverage moves" bit though. Say something about its coverage moves mainly hitting threats to the hail archetype, then say that LK hits steels and Kanga and Slide hits Talon and YZard.
TO
  • Say that Mega Abomasnow is required in order for Gren to function effectively, if at all.
  • "Thanks to their generally high attacking stats, they can also easily wear down Greninja's checks to aid it in wearing down teams." Remove this as this is fluff, and any teammate in practice can wear down checks regardless of attacking stats.
C&C
  • TA: You could rephrase the end bit and instead say that Steel-types "have to watch out for Low Kick, however."
  • Speed Control: Give examples of Tailwind setters, Trick Room setters, and Icy Wind. Make sure to make them fit in the prose still!
Tag me once you implement
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top