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Hyper Offense...mostly.

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Creative, Jul 11, 2013.

  1. Creative

    Creative

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    25
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Hi, and welcome to my first RMT! Here we have what seems to be an excessively standard team -- which it is, for the most part -- but it is fun to use, usually against people who hate the current meta. My initial idea when making this team was to abuse Keldeo and special Landorus as much as I could until they would inevitably get suspected and potentially banned from OU. You may wonder: "Why, then, did you not run the standard TTar / Keldeo / Lando-I core?" to which my answer is...I dunno. I added Scizor to handle Lati@s, with which Keldeo and Landorus have trouble, Rotom-W to keep momentum with Scizor, and Gengar to spinblock. Now for the more detailed look:

    [​IMG]
    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower

    We start off with what is known as the standard Choice Band Scizor. His purpose on this team is to act as a defensive pivot on predicted resisted hits, to provide Pursuit support to annihilate Psychic- and Ghost-types that prevent Keldeo's Secret Sword from properly hitting hard, and to provide strong priority in STAB Bullet Punch. Superpower over Quick Attack to demolish Tyranitar, should I need him to. 8 speed EVs are used to outspeed other Scizor and score a nice 2HKO with Superpower if it stays in (which it shouldn't). Also, BP is very useful in getting a little extra damage to ensure that Earth Power or Secret Sword kills or 2HKOs.

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    Keldeo (Keldeo-R) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SDef
    - Secret Sword
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]
    - Icy Wind

    Scarf Keldeo. It pairs well with Landorus because it has the speed to handle certain threats Landorus can't without Polishing, and it also appreciates the removal of Tentacruel, with whom Landorus deals very nicely. I have Hydro Pump over Surf just for sheer power, since I don't have Life Orb, Specs or rain on my side to boost it. Icy Wind to hit quad-weaknesses, and potentially catch fast switch-ins. HP Ghost for Jellicent, though curiously, I haven't encountered more than a handful of them with this team, and I haven't utilized the Hidden Power yet. Still, it makes me feel safer. I very much want to change this to the Expert Belt/HP Bug set, but I've been told (by Chimpact, no less) that I need the speed.

    [​IMG]
    Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 88 HP / 252 SAtk / 168 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
    - Rock Polish
    - Earth Power
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    The standard sets keep coming with Rock Polishing special Landorus. There's a reason this is being suspected (though I for one don't think it's that overpowered), and that's because it is ridiculously strong. Life Orb + Sheer Force + STAB Earth Power already hits like a freaking truck off of his very good Special Attack, so why go for bulky Modest over the normal Timid? Well, basically everyone assumes the max/max Timid set, so they won't stay in with such Pokémon as non-Scarf Jirachi and Salamence that usually are narrowly outsped and OHKOed by EP and HP Ice, respectively, so I'm able to bluff it, while still retaining all the power of a SpAtk+ nature and not wasting any speed after the Polish.

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    Skarmory (M) @ Custap Berry
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Brave Bird
    - Taunt

    This Skarmory is intended to perform as a surrogate Deoxys-D, setting up as many hazards as possible to ensure that my other team members get the crucial, close 2HKOs and OHKOs. Max Speed/Jolly allows me to tie with Jolly Breloom and Taunt the Spore, as well as any slower lead. Max Attack allows me to easily OHKO any Breloom lacking a Sash, and it also is often able to score the OHKO on any Volcarona trying to get inb4, and even if Volc' doesn't die, it's in such a range that either Scizor's BP kills, or it has to switch and die to hazards.

    [​IMG]
    Gengar (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Thunder

    Gengar was absolutely necessarily as an offensive spinblocker. Basically every Gengar carries max/max Timid, Sub, Shadow Ball for STAB and Focus Blast for coverage, so they aren't in dire need of expansion. Thunder, however, is quite the addition. Usually, they run either HP Fire, Pain Split or HP Ice, but, since Gengar's main job is beating Tentacruel -- the most threatening spinner -- one-on-one, I gave it Thunder to easily 2HKO (assuming it's raining). That's important because it's simultaneously blocking spin and making a Keldeo sweep more likely. It's especially good against the omnipresent rain, and it's come through several times for me.

    [​IMG]
    Rotom (Rotom-W) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Pain Split
    - Will-O-Wisp

    This is the point at which I deviate from the initial basis for the team. I very desperately needed some special defense on my team, because I knew I could very easily get smashed by a strong Scarfer, and rain in general. It was basically up to Rotom Wash and Celebi, and I chose the burn support over the ability to easily beat Breloom, though Celebi may've been a better decision, in order to handle fighting attacks without risking Gengar's life on a risky prediction. In any case, Rotom has proved useful, since my team appreciates the residual from the burns to ensure 2HKOs and OHKOs. Also, Volt Switch does way more than Celebi's U-Turn does while keeping the momentum up, so that's helpful.


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    Conclusion!
    Any advice would be helpful in how I can make the team better. I know it all seems rather standard and simple, which is why I want to fine-tune it as best I can. Thanks for reading! :]
  2. Maestro72

    Maestro72

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Messages:
    57
    HP Electric or HP Grass over HP Ghost on Keldeo-R: the only benefit HP Ghost gives you over HP Electric or HP Grass in terms of coverage is the ability to fight Shedninja. Water-Fighting is otherwise only resisted by Water+Poison/Psychic/Bug/Ghost types.

    Other than that, this looks really solid. Nicely done.
    Creative likes this.
  3. tml

    tml

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    712
    HP Ghost lets him hit Latios / Latias, however I agree that he should be running Hp Electric on Keldeo. This will help you vs Gyarados who can OHKO 5/6 of your team at +1 while also doing a minimum of 48% to rotom while the rain is up, this is 60% after after coming in on SR, and since your Rotom will be used to take early hits from other rain sweepers like Politoed and Keldeo, Gyarados becomes a certain threat finding chances to set up on Scizor, Landorus, and Keldeo locked into resisted move. Electric also gives you a super effective hit vs opposing Keldeo and still lets you hit Jellicent if you ever need to. I also recommend to you using U-turn Landorus over RP (it could even fit over Focus Blast so you can try and set up for a late game Earth Power + HP Ice sweep). Seeing as your Keldeo is scarfed, it can pose an excellent threat of late game sweeping by simply clicking it's powerful STAB without taking a turn to set up. With U-turn landorus as a partner, Celebis and Latis can be KOd and weakened into Keldeo range giving yourself an easier time, and with Landorus' ability to come in and force things away U-turn becomes handy for maintaining momentum and giving you the switch advantage. I hope you consider these changes, good luck with your team.
    Creative likes this.
  4. MCBarrett

    MCBarrett i love it when you call me big hoppa

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2012
    Messages:
    551
    Hey Creative, nice team! I've been working on a weatherless HO Custap Skarmory team lately as well and our teams have some similarities so props to great minds thinking alike. Anyways, I'm sure you have found, as with any other HO team that the most difficult thing to do is to balance out your team to take out as many defensive threats as possible. Some teams can be very easy to plow through while others pose huge problems and are very hard to break through. I have a few minor suggestions that I think could make a huge difference here. One is the same as above, switching your current RP Landorus into a U-turn Landorus. You could even use Landorus-T if you want to to have a bulkier pivot with a stronger U-Turn and Intimidate but the choice is yours. Then, to compliment this change, I would suggest changing your current CB Scizor to a LO SD set. Now that Landorus is your pivot Scizor can be your setup sweeper and boy does he get the job done. After a single SD Scizor can even 2hko physically defensive Tentacruel with Bug Bite, making him very difficult to wall. Lastly, I would suggest trying out Destiny Bond over Substitute on your Gengar. This is really personal preference but it can make it very easy to take out opposing Tentacruel and you can even get some surprise KO's on slower sweepers such as Dragonite or Specs Keldeo if the opposing spinner is already taken out or the other team just doesn't have one.

    Hopefully my suggestions helped! Good luck with the team and let me know how it works!
    Creative likes this.
  5. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,481
    Hey Creative, cool team! It's been a while since we've seen a good ol' Custap lead hyper offensive team. But they are definitely effective if played right, and apply a lot of pressure to the opposing team.

    One of the major issues I see this team having is SubDD Gyarados, which can set up on Scizor and proceed to sweep your team with a Moxie-fueled rampage. Normally Skarmory would be able to wall it, but because you're using the Custap lead set instead of the Physically Defensive one, Gyarados can actually just set up on you. Even Rotom-W cannot reliably stop it since it can simply Sub as you Volt Switch, which blocks the hit and forces you out. I agree with the above poster that you should change Hidden Power Ghost to Electric on Keldeo. With this, you can break Sub DD Gyara's Substitute and then OHKO with HP Electric from Keldeo, ensuring that you can't be swept by it as long as those two are alive. I don't think you'll miss HP Ghost either since you can use Scizor to trap Jellicent and take out Choice locked Latios and non-HP Fire Latias.

    Also, I think you should replace Thunder with Disable on Gengar. With Substitue and Disable, you can beat Tentacruel, since you can eliminate it's only move it has to hit you (Scald) and proceed to Shadow Ball it to death. Sub Disable Gengar is also a much better counter to Landorus, since your team can have trouble against it if Rotom-W gets weakened, which it probably will since it's your defensive backbone.

    Hope I was able to help! Good luck with the team!
    Creative likes this.
  6. Vertex

    Vertex

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    389
    Cool Team, bro!

    This team is pretty solid, so I want to give few suggestions. Use the Protect + 3 Attacks set over your current set. Obviously you'd want to run Thunderbolt, considering it's not a rain team and by protecting, you get a scout move and a way to hit Tentacruel. Try using Thunder Wave over Will-O-Wisp on Rotom-W. You'd want to paralysis stuff than get damaged less since Scizor appreciates a faster U-turn. Also, you should try Counterover Superpower. While this may seem strange, I think it'd excel when facing common Pokemon that break the LandoKeld core like Virizion, Breloom, Gyarados,a dn Choice Band Dragonite, so this will be a nice boost. It also helps against opposing Scizor U-turn which are common. since you want this to be effective for opposing Scizor, go with zero Spe and 30 Spe IVs which guarantee a scouting Counter against the opponent which will throw there Gothitelle and Fire-type mind-games off a little. I'm going with Halcyon of Light said. Use Hidden Power [Grass] over [Ghost] since it Gastrodon hard-walls this team, and Rotom-W takes care of Gyarados well, since Hydro Pump breaks its Ssubstitute's in rain, and then you can Volt Switch.

    Summary of Changes
    • Gengar
      • Protect > Substitute
      • Thunderbolt > Thunder
    • Scizor
      • 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
      • 30 IVs
      • Counter > Superpower
    • Keldeo
      • Hidden Power [Grass] > Hidden Power [Ghost]
    • Rotom-W
      • Thunder Wave > Will-O-Wisp
  7. Creative

    Creative

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    25
    First off, thanks so much to everyone who commented on my team! Also, I'm replying so late because I forgot to do so in a more timely manner because I was sorta busy testing the suggestions, then got sidetracked. I'm sorry! (/).(\)
    Now, more specifically:

    I did notice this huge problem, and promptly fixed it. HP Electric did work wonders, since it's not as though HP Ghost would do much on a predicted Celebi switch-in anyways. It also saved me from no fewer than 3 potential Gyarados sweeps, so thank you for helping me see that!

    Right after I made this team, I noticed a surge in U-Turn usage among higher-ranked players, and soon started to see the viability of the set more so than I previously did. I switched it, and tried to play around with it, and it did its job. I was worried that it wouldn't be quite effective enough if I didn't have max Speed, but I never really used it outside of hitting a switch-in or a slower wall, so it wasn't a big deal. This strategy basically spelled the end for any Celebi or Lati twin that didn't have the HP Fire, because Scizor obviously decimated them.

    As for changing it to a Swords Dance set, I tried it, but as Pursuit was kind of the crux of the set, it didn't really fit; I would use a Tyranitar if I wanted something other than Banded Scizor to do my Pursuit trapping (which I tried, and it was as good as everyone said it was). In short, SD just wasn't for me.

    Destiny Bond was a good idea that ultimately didn't pan out for me. I needed the Substitute to dodge status so he could stick around and block Spin longer if need be, and possibly attempt a sweep later on. It barely netted me any kills during my period of testing it, but maybe that's because I'm just not good at using it.

    As for Disable, that was also a very good idea which worked out most of the time, except for those odd (but annoyingly frequent) instances of Ice Beam Tentacruel. I was able to handle those, but it wasn't as easy as I'd hoped. I ultimately ended up keeping Disable, as I could also handle Choiced Pokés and other weathers a lot better. It also beats every Toxicroak not carrying Ice Punch, if you manage to Disable the Sucker Punch, or even the Substitute, if Gengar has enough HP left.

    The benefits of Protect (such as not wasting 25% of HP) are outclassed by the benefits of Substitute (i.e. not being complete setup fodder for one turn). Also, the benefits that are shared last longer with Sub. I would have used T-Bolt over Thunder, had I not changed to Disable.

    Scizor would rather be dealing damage on his own than taking hits in order to deal good damage. Also, Choice Banded Counter? Come on.

    My team has enough muscle to power through Gastrodon, and it's not that common except on anti-meta teams anyways, in my experience, so that wasn't a huge deal, as Electric does a better job otherwise.

    Thunder Wave actually did do a good job, but I do like the residual, so I'm usually torn as to which status I want, and ultimately keep switching between them. Even Landorus appreciates the para support, since he's so far below max Speed.

    Parting comments:
    Overall, I think that everything said contributed to making a very good team from one that was already pretty decent. I had fun on Showdown and on PO doing some pretty good work with this team, so thank you again! Speaking of Showdown...as most of you know, Lando-I just got banned from it, so now I need a replacement for him, so if you have any suggestions for that please tell me, but honestly, the change will probably warrant a whole new team entirely. Until I decide on that, however, I'm going to abuse the hell out of this until he's banned on PO as well. :]
  8. KabaticStorm

    KabaticStorm

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    23
    Hey there Creative! Though it seems no one has seen or mentioned this before, you need an importable. I'll finish the rate once that's done.
  9. Oopa

    Oopa

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Messages:
    131
    Um and there is a slight problem. erm landorus is banned
    everyone should seriously panic now

    edit: my ctrl+f for landorus failed to pick up lando-i :/
    its already been mentioned
    still, everyone should seriously panic

    i had the exact same problem due to banning of landorus- maybe change to landorus-T or gliscor or Garchomp cos of similar typing and use as offensive poke
  10. KabaticStorm

    KabaticStorm

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    23
    Landorus has been banned. The next overpowered sweeper will be Magicarp. Hai. Try adapting Landorus into something else. Have some creativity, sirs and madams.
  11. vyomov

    vyomov

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    855
    Well, if you need a special attacker that hits like a truck, why not replace Landorus with Specs Latios?
  12. KabaticStorm

    KabaticStorm

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    23
    I personally prefer Life Orb due to its versatility, but its all personal preference.
  13. Creative

    Creative

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
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    I'm not super sure between all the suggestions, but I need something that can clean up late game. Garchomp does seem like a viable alternative, but it leaves me more vulnerable to Spikes-stacking, so I'm not so sure. Specs Latios doesn't stick around for enough turns to get the job done, since he usually has to switch from either the -2 or the resist that comes in after.
  14. scotti

    scotti

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    277
    What about Double-Booster Landorus-T. It seems like a good late game sweeper. He has the same typing as Landorus though the set doesn't has the best coverage it can sure do alot of damage to the opposing team. It also alot bulkier and get the boost fairly easy, and since this is a HO team it will probably have a easy time sweeping with the opposing team weakened. Here is the Set:

    Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Rock Polish
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    Hope I Helped.
  15. KabaticStorm

    KabaticStorm

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
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    How about SubSalac Terrakion? It can sweep after priority is dead on the opposing team, making it excellent for a late game sweeper. Once it sets up successfully, it gains a boost in speed, and two boosts in attack.

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