ORAS OU M-Charizard-X Balance

[hublo]

Hi guys, I hate the fact that this comes as a necrothread, I apologize for that, but this is a team I have rooted for and it has undergone few important changes, also being the first team I RMT'd the descripton were lacking, so hopefully this edit fixes that.

quick thought process

They are the defensive backbone of the team and they were chosen to check very well the weather playstyles. I run standard sets, except rotom runs a little more speed than usual to speedcreep defensive landorus-T.

I chose latias for hazard removal and cleric support, must-have features on a balanced team.

I wanted a mega and zard-x fit the bill rounding off an FWG core; it appreciates the support brought by latias.

I picked Landorus-T for checking opposing zard-x and to have some sort of speed control outside of charizard's dragon dance.

Weavile adds a lot of speed to the team and helps against psychic-types .

Team at a glance

Team description​

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 152 HP / 192 Atk /4 SpDef/ 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
- Dragon Dance

Moveset is simple: dual STABs in flare blitz and dragon claw, the former used mainly for wallbreaking puposes, the latter for sweeping lategame. Roost gives stying power and allow me to take advantage of its ability to pivot into electric-types and it's good to offset flare blitz recoil. Dragon dance is pretty standard and provides the team with a good win-condition.

The EV spread is the result of a long process of tinkering and it sacrifices a little power for bulk. EVs in speed let you outspeed neutral natured fully invested excadrill, EVs in attack ensure a 3HKO on quagsire after leforvers recovery with dragon claw, while 152 HP EVs allow me to take minimum damage from iron barbs/rough skin/rocky helmet (it follows the formula 16n-1) and let charizard switchin two times in non-mega form if rocks are on the field. The leftover 4 Ev in SpDef avoid the 2HKO from rotom-w hydro pump.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Protect

Standard set, used to have a durable rock setter (so you can defog multiple times) and to leech seed stall to wear down the opponents. Gyro ball is mandatory STAB and packs decent power and protect is for scouting/forcing HJK recoil. Leech seed gives it some sort of recovery and gets useful chip damage on the foe.

The EV spread is taken from the smogondex analysis and it is generally used to survive two ice beams from +3 manaphy. Even though I don't carry power whip, this spread has been useful to take hits from both sides of the spectrum.

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Def / 52 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Again moveset is standard; volt switch for momentum and makes rotom the first member of my volt-turn core, hydro miss for STAB, will-o-wisp to cripple switchins and phisical attackers and pain split for recovery.

EVs in speed are to speedcreep defensive landorus-t; with the speed investiment you can generally hydro pump landorus as it clicks U-turn, weakening it enough for a charizard sweep lategame, and 248 Hp EVs don't give me a leftovers number, but it's ok because rotom is an easy knock off target and with this hp investiment it takes less damage from stealth rocks. The rest is put in defense to check sand rush excadrill and talonflame.

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 24 Def / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Superpower

Earthquake for STAB, stone miss for coverage, U-turn is for pivoting and creates a really strong volt-turn chain with rotom, superpower is good for Mega Lopunny, Mega Gyarados, balloon excadrill, balloon heatran and ferrothorn. The surprise factor with this move let you get a lot of damage on the aforementioned targets and is definitely the superior option over knock off.

EVs in atk for max damage output, EVs in speed underspeed opposing choice scarf landorus-T, allowing me to retain momentum, and outspeed choice scarf adamant excadrill by one point, leftover EVs are put in Def to take the most out of intimidate.

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Defog
- Healing Wish

Standard set, draco meteor for nuking stuff, psychic is the better option for this team considering I have already a lot of physical attackers and it hits harder unaware clefable and defensive Mega-Venusaur. Defog and HW are mandatory support moves and allow me to play charizard and weabvile reckelessly early-game.

EVs are max-max because life orb screws over defensive calculations and latias has to cover the role of the special attacker of the team.

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Low Kick

Weavile is basically the ORAS greninja, and it fits the team.

Moveset is all standard, with low kick over pursuit for T-tar, heatran and bisharp, which can all trouble charizard. Knock off is the mandatory STAB and is useful for getting rid of the items of keldeo and clefable switchins, Icicle crash is chosen over ice punch because is a contactless move so you don't impale yourself on garchomp. Ice shard is good for thundurus and M-pinsir, relieving the pressure off rotom and landorus.

speaking of pressure, I chose this ability over pickpocket because it will never switch into any move ever and knock off is no exception, it is also nice for bisharp's sucker punch. Pressure has also the advantage of revealing the turn order (for example, you're against a scarf landorus: pressure activates after intimidate so you know that it's scarf)

EVs need no explanation.

Threats​

bisharp: threat number one for this team. Sets with swords dance are pretty much impossible to stop. Weavile can check only if bisharp doesn't have any attack boosts.

clefable: it has a lot of options at its disposal, t-wave, fire coverage, calm mind and unaware. Unpredictability factor makes it a difficult pokemon to handle.

M-gardevoir: no safe switchins, but it's easy to RK.

keldeo: just take advantage of the choice item (specs/scarf). SubCM is scary.

scizor: charizard just walls it and is setup bait, but roost+SD variants can outlive charizard and setup on Ferrothorn. Rotom can burn it but doesn't enjoy switching u-turn/bug bite.

/

serperior and M-sceptile: they can be scary, especially if zard has mega already and if rocks are on the field. Serperior can snowball pretty quickly.

heatran: my only safe switchin is rotom, which is usually crippled by toxic, generally the best course of action is getting little chip damage and kill it with low kick.

klefki: it can easily stack spikes, which my team despises.

M-slowbro: double dance is the evil.

Importable​

So, that was the team, hope you like it! here is the importable in case you want to use it.

​

importable

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 152 HP / 192 Atk / 4 SpD / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
- Dragon Dance

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Protect

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Def / 52 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 24 Def / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Superpower

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Defog
- Healing Wish

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Low Kick

 

[p2]

Hey, nice team. I noticed the big Bisharp / Lopunny / Scizor weakness, so why not try Bulky Garchomp > Landorus?
Bulky Garchomp is a really solid check to the aforementioned Pokemon as they take a huge amount of damage from Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet. (Around 30% per contact move, which is huge against Lopunny which has no recovery outside of the uncommon Drain Punch). You outspeed Bisharp and Scizor which gives you an opportunity to set up Stealth Rock or EQ / Fire Blast them, though they'll usually switch out. It also handles Mega Gyarados pretty well as long as it lacks Ice Fang. Because this frees up Ferrothorn from using Stealth Rock, I'd recommend changing it to Serperior or replacing Stealth Rock with Spikes and Starmie > Latias as your hazard remover. Using Defog with Spikes is not a good idea at all since it removes hazards from both sides of the field. Serperior is a fantastic partner for Charizard X as it can beat its biggest counters in Quagsire / Hippowdon / Rhyperior and so on, while snowballing with Leaf Storm and putting huge pressure onto bulky teams that rely on Pokemon such as Unaware Clefable or Chansey to beat it.

Changes in short:
Bulky Garchomp > Landorus-T
If you want to keep Ferrothorn, Starmie > Latias
If you want to keep Latias, Serperior > Ferrothorn

sets

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast / Endure / Toxic
Endure can be used to screw over contact attackers even more as you force them to attack again as you're left at 1%. While Toxic can put a timer on setup sweepers.

Serperior @ Miracle Seed
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dragon Pulse / Giga Drain
- Glare / Taunt / Substitute

Serperior can run Life Orb if it wants to, but Giga Drain is recommended over Dragon Pulse as you can be worn down extremely quickly, though Miracle Seed provides a nice boost to your Leaf Storm and iirc, allows you to 2HKO Gengar and Latios.

And if you choose Starmie > Latias

(Offensive Variant)
Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin

OR

(Defensive Variant)
Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Psyshock / Reflect Type

 

[hublo]

Oh, the edit was supposed to bump the thread, consider this message as my bump

 

[Tressed]

Just some small edits here, since your team looks pretty solid overall.

Zard should be running at least 310 Speed, in order to outrun Scarf Landorus-T after a Dragon Dance. If you're set on the defensive investment you have now, a spread of 152 HP / 168 Atk / 4 SpD / 184 Spe with a Jolly nature should be what you're looking for. 3HKOing Quagsire isn't the most useful benchmark to hit, seeing as you typically won't be able to break through it with that thanks to Recover.

It might be worth looking into running Swords Dance over Ice Shard on Weavile. While Thundurus and Pinsir are nice to be able to revenge kill, your team seems capable of handling them without Weavile's help. Swords Dance Weavile allows you to put a lot more pressure on some of the mons you've listed as threats to your team, such as Clefable and Heatran. SD Weavile and DD Zard X also make for a pretty difficult pair for most defensive cores to handle.

I'd also take another look at fleggumfl's changes. I don't think they're 100% necessary since your team seems to function fine outside of that, but it's definitely worth testing them out and seeing which version of the team you like best.

 

[hublo]

Just some small edits here, since your team looks pretty solid overall.

Zard should be running at least 310 Speed, in order to outrun Scarf Landorus-T after a Dragon Dance. If you're set on the defensive investment you have now, a spread of 152 HP / 168 Atk / 4 SpD / 184 Spe with a Jolly nature should be what you're looking for. 3HKOing Quagsire isn't the most useful benchmark to hit, seeing as you typically won't be able to break through it with that thanks to Recover.

It might be worth looking into running Swords Dance over Ice Shard on Weavile. While Thundurus and Pinsir are nice to be able to revenge kill, your team seems capable of handling them without Weavile's help. Swords Dance Weavile allows you to put a lot more pressure on some of the mons you've listed as threats to your team, such as Clefable and Heatran. SD Weavile and DD Zard X also make for a pretty difficult pair for most defensive cores to handle.

I'd also take another look at fleggumfl's changes. I don't think they're 100% necessary since your team seems to function fine outside of that, but it's definitely worth testing them out and seeing which version of the team you like best.

About the charizard I believe it works better with the adamant nature considering opposing scarf-lando gets worn down by iron barbs and stealth rocks and among the ground immunities I have in my team the lando user is stuck in a bad situation; if anything I've had more problems with defensive variants, because generally once rotom misses the first hydro pump, the opponent preserves carefully landorus, so I believe adamant is the way to go. Also take the 3HKO on quagsire with a grain of salt, the idea behind that is to stall a little bit quagsire recover if it is switching in on D-claw. Yeah, it sounds terrible but I don't have many options to deal with M-sableye stall.

Swords Dance weavile is fresh and it's something I've never thought myself, thanks for bringing it to my attention!

I did try fleggemufl suggestion (specifically I used bulky Starmie and tankchomp), and while it patched some weaknesses I became much weaker to M-alakazam, M-gardevoir and opposing zard-x (which already has the potential to 6-0 this team if it's jolly), and I missed latias utility in healing wish and lando u- turn.

Thanks for stepping by :]