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OU Infernape
- Thread starter QuickBH
- Start date
SR alone on Endeavor Ape, it's a SR suicide lead pretty much...Endeavor is just a cool bonus to break stuff down that want to switch in.
Thunder Punch should hardly be its own slash on MixApe. The basic most significant target is Azumarill, which doesn't like GK, as Talon already takes a load from CC. GK + HP Ice coverage or w/e sounds much more appealing so you can hit a fuller range of threats, especially like popping Gliscor and Quag on the same set so it can defeat any bulky Ground that wants to deal with it. Something along the lines of Fire Blast or Flare Blitz / CC / Hidden Power Ice / Grass Knot or Thunder Punch or Mach Punch sounds best, can obviously switch around GK and HP Ice or whatever you want.
Endeavor set before Phys Def.
Thunder Punch should hardly be its own slash on MixApe. The basic most significant target is Azumarill, which doesn't like GK, as Talon already takes a load from CC. GK + HP Ice coverage or w/e sounds much more appealing so you can hit a fuller range of threats, especially like popping Gliscor and Quag on the same set so it can defeat any bulky Ground that wants to deal with it. Something along the lines of Fire Blast or Flare Blitz / CC / Hidden Power Ice / Grass Knot or Thunder Punch or Mach Punch sounds best, can obviously switch around GK and HP Ice or whatever you want.
Endeavor set before Phys Def.
thunder punch is also for gyarados, who can use you as set up bait otherwise. oh and bulk up talonflame, which dgaf about close combat and sets up on you, and a ohko > 2hko in general. so if you count those three threats together (azumarill, gyarados, talonflame), this makes thunder punch the best option for the last slot imo. not to mention that the big hit on mega char y is very nice for the revenge kill.
As an Infernape user, I'd have to agree with Jukain (with slashing Thunder Punch last, not removing it), but I'm thinking it should go Mach Punch / Hidden Power Ice / Thunder Punch. I find Mach Punch to be a valuable resource because it lets Infernape revenge kill key threats such as Mega Tyranitar and Excadrill, allowing it to check Sand Offense pretty well, while letting it beat Greninja after only SR. (Mach Punch OHKO's after SR iirc) It also helps just preserve Infernape vs other priority, because if Infernape is a key threat to the opponents team, not taking a Bisharp/Mega Mawile's Sucker Punch, allowing Infernape to attack more with LO, and can often mean the difference between winning and losing vs offense.
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A few comments on the MixApe set.
-Moves: When mentioning HP Ice targets, I think it needs to be emphasized that Dragonite needs Multiscale broken in order to be OHKOed, and Garchomp can stomach one HP Ice without a problem. It's okey to mention Water-types as Grass Knot's targets, but honestly, the Water-types in OU are very light, and GK practically covers just Quagsire and Hippowdon. If you want to use a move for Water-types in general, you use ThunderPunch.
-Set Details: You could mention the Attack invesment ensures OHKO on Heatran even without SR. Also, pls don't mention U-turn, as it is terribly weak, offers no real coverage, and Infernape has no room for it. I actually don't agree on max. Speed being mandatory on Infernape. I could very well see a Nape set that is EV'd to outspeed Garchomp, as it's the fastest relevant 'mon considering Infernape's coverage. Infernape needs all the power it can get, so you could easily snatch a few EV's from Speed to boost your attacking stats.
-Moves: When mentioning HP Ice targets, I think it needs to be emphasized that Dragonite needs Multiscale broken in order to be OHKOed, and Garchomp can stomach one HP Ice without a problem. It's okey to mention Water-types as Grass Knot's targets, but honestly, the Water-types in OU are very light, and GK practically covers just Quagsire and Hippowdon. If you want to use a move for Water-types in general, you use ThunderPunch.
-Set Details: You could mention the Attack invesment ensures OHKO on Heatran even without SR. Also, pls don't mention U-turn, as it is terribly weak, offers no real coverage, and Infernape has no room for it. I actually don't agree on max. Speed being mandatory on Infernape. I could very well see a Nape set that is EV'd to outspeed Garchomp, as it's the fastest relevant 'mon considering Infernape's coverage. Infernape needs all the power it can get, so you could easily snatch a few EV's from Speed to boost your attacking stats.
Timpsu what I had U-Turn mentioned? Well I forgot to edit that. :P
As for the max speed part, having a speed tie vs Keldeo is really huge and being able to deal a clean minimum of 66% is too good to pass up, I don't see any reason why you'd want less speed. I'll have to calc how strong Mach Punch will be vs Drill/Mega Tyranitar/Greninja is when it's not 4 AM and see if it does have its usages. If you have any specific calcs I would love to see it and I'll definitely try it out!
EDIT: I think being 1 point faster than Timid Manectric is the actual amount of speed Infernape would need, which gives us.....24 EV's to put wherever. (that's only 6 stat points that can be distributed)
As for the max speed part, having a speed tie vs Keldeo is really huge and being able to deal a clean minimum of 66% is too good to pass up, I don't see any reason why you'd want less speed. I'll have to calc how strong Mach Punch will be vs Drill/Mega Tyranitar/Greninja is when it's not 4 AM and see if it does have its usages. If you have any specific calcs I would love to see it and I'll definitely try it out!
EDIT: I think being 1 point faster than Timid Manectric is the actual amount of speed Infernape would need, which gives us.....24 EV's to put wherever. (that's only 6 stat points that can be distributed)
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Yeah, it's true that you are not left with much extra EV's even if not going for max. Speed, but since the recommended set focuses mainly on stallbreaking, and lacking power is Infernapes #1 problem, I think all EV's that can be spared should be put to Att/SpA. Max. Speed should ofc be the main set, but I thought set details could mention Infernape can run less Speed if threats such as Terrakion, Keldeo and M-Manectric are otherwise covered. Sorry if I'm bit vague/unclear, writing on phone so I try to be as brief as possible.
As for the calcs, I recall MP does about 70-85% to M-Tyranitar, and Greninja dies if SR and one round of Life orb damage is counted in. Dunno about Exca though.
As for the calcs, I recall MP does about 70-85% to M-Tyranitar, and Greninja dies if SR and one round of Life orb damage is counted in. Dunno about Exca though.
To clarify, i wanted ThunderPunch slashed first on the last slot assuming that Hidden Power Ice was the move of choice on the third slot. If you are using Grass Knot then of course Hidden Power Ice and Mach Punch are better choices. So basically, my favorite moveset has been: Fire Blast / Close Combat / Hidden Power Ice / ThunderPunch. Getting walled by Quagsire and SpD Hippo sucks, but they both take ~45% damage from Close Combat, so with the tiniest of residual you can beat them, or one layer of Spikes.
I find Grass Knot to be more useful than HP Ice because it prevents Slowbro from being a safe switch-in + potentially 2HKO Amolamola after SR+Hippowdon and Quagsire (basically guarantees you'll be a threat vs stall), and still doing considerable damage to Azumarill. Hidden Power Ice, on the other hand, is just for Sp.D Gliscor and Dragonite which Infernape couldn't do otherwise do so well vs. Benefits vs Chomp too as you take less recoil but still.
You mentioned a layer of spikes, who do you use as your spikes user now with the Deoxys forms gone? I am legitimately intrigued and want to test it out for myself!
slash hp ice first in slot 4 and drop tpunch to moves.
mention wallbreaking capabilities of endeavor.
overheat > fire blast on lead set because it's only really gonna use that once anyways, want the best damage output/accuracy for that one use.
mention that will-o-wisp has a big selling point in beating tran in beating bisharp and heatran unlike mew/gar. all moves should be mandatory, taunt is essential for stallbreaking plus what do you really need a fire move for?
qc 1/3
mention wallbreaking capabilities of endeavor.
overheat > fire blast on lead set because it's only really gonna use that once anyways, want the best damage output/accuracy for that one use.
mention that will-o-wisp has a big selling point in beating tran in beating bisharp and heatran unlike mew/gar. all moves should be mandatory, taunt is essential for stallbreaking plus what do you really need a fire move for?
qc 1/3
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
Azumarill doesnt really give a shit about Grass Knot, it doesnt even 2HKO less bulky ones and it does like 25-30 to AV. Max HP CB Azu can seriously tank stepping on SR twice and taking 2 grass knots (88 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 153-182 (37.8 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO). Phys def / fast gliscor gets fucked by fire blast, so does Lando-T : 88 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 220-261 (62.1 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal.
So you're hitting Dragonite and sdef Gliscor over hitting Azumarill. Close Combat does more to Latias than HP ice if you were wondering. 4/0 Talonflame and 4/0 unevolved Gyarados are pretty effortless switch ins to ape without T-punch. Oh yeah and sdef Togekiss is a full stop to ape lacking Thunderpunch.
Don't really think Thunderpunch should be demoted this quickly.
So you're hitting Dragonite and sdef Gliscor over hitting Azumarill. Close Combat does more to Latias than HP ice if you were wondering. 4/0 Talonflame and 4/0 unevolved Gyarados are pretty effortless switch ins to ape without T-punch. Oh yeah and sdef Togekiss is a full stop to ape lacking Thunderpunch.
Don't really think Thunderpunch should be demoted this quickly.
Ash Borer I believe it deserves a mention too.
With it being included, I should also mention that each of these moves give Infernape are used for completely different goals. Hidden Power Ice is really effective at breaking stall while still being a threat offensively, and Mach Punch just boosts Infernape's revenge killing and survivability to a great extent, I've mentioned in previous posts why I believe Mach Punch is so good so I'm not giving specifics in this post. Thunder Punch, on the other hand, makes Infernape able to act almost like a lure and take out key relevant threats such as Talonflame, Mega Charizard Y and Gyarados, and handle Azumarill better than with Grass Knot.
With it being included, I should also mention that each of these moves give Infernape are used for completely different goals. Hidden Power Ice is really effective at breaking stall while still being a threat offensively, and Mach Punch just boosts Infernape's revenge killing and survivability to a great extent, I've mentioned in previous posts why I believe Mach Punch is so good so I'm not giving specifics in this post. Thunder Punch, on the other hand, makes Infernape able to act almost like a lure and take out key relevant threats such as Talonflame, Mega Charizard Y and Gyarados, and handle Azumarill better than with Grass Knot.
The Endeavor set has Stealth Rocks and Vacuum Wave is just way too weak and focuses on the special side of the spectrum when Mach Punch is boosted by Iron Fist and focuses on the physical side.
I've made sure this analysis doesn't mention Aegislash. I've also put Mach Punch / Hidden Power Ice / Thunder Punch. All have different purposes, but I find Mach Punch is one of the biggest and one of the main reasons I find that you would use Infernape as your wallbreaker. As it allows Infernape to become not only a good wallbreaker (albeit with competition), but as a solid revenge killer to many common Pokemon such as Bisharp, (Yes Keldeo can, but not without severely weakening it first if Bisharp is at #2) Mega Tyranitar, Sand Rush Excadrill, you can even lure Greninja and KO after Stealth Rocks or cause games with Mega Mawile, who as we all know, is a monster if given the chance to set up. Infernape can also revenge kill any low health Pokemon that otherwise don't outprioritize it because priority in general is just so good.
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Could probably slash stone edge/u-turn on mix ape since good for catching Gyarados/Talonflame/Lati twins on the switch in and could be paired with T-tar/Bisharp for solid trapping. Just a thought Quickbobhero
