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So with Inheritance basically guaranteed to be OMotM, anyone feel anything is broken/deserves a ban?
Personally, I think we should do something about Assist teams. Sure, [Flash Fire user] stops it, but that's only until your opponent sends out a Mold Breaker Pokemon. What about [Primordial Sea user]? Desolate Lands.
When it gets a ladder, Assist teams will be really annoying and hard to beat.
Not really. No Mold Breaker poke that can learn Assist.
In fact, assist users are quite limited if you want to put 5-6 assist poke in your team. You have:
Infernape, Hypno, Persian, Weavile, Meowstic, Furret, Purugly, Liepard, Spinda, Delcatty. That's it. All of them include prevo.
I don't like too much bans tbh. It makes the meta lose some kind of essence. If -atespeed, Primordial Sea, Desolate Land, Protean and Gale Wings is part of the meta, so be it.
Though there is one thing that concern me the most. Sableye has Prankster + very wide movepool, including Metal Burst for Chansey and other high HP pokes. Like Primordial Sea Keldeo, it limits offensive playstyle too much that something must be done to it. Not by banning Chansey or you'll see Cresselia, Wobbuffet running the same thing. Its the donor itself thats overpowered imo.
rejoice! Or cry...? the fat blob is dead! or rather, inheriting from Sableye is. no worries though! you still have magic bounce mega sable, or murkrow to inherit from! :) lmao i expected this to look cooler...sorry guys.
basically we had to make a very big choice. sorry if you don't like it.
You can always run Mega Gyarados, but then you still need your sun setter, your Delta Stream user (yes, Delta Stream, there is no way to get Desolate Land Assist), ideally Wobbuffet (because without trapping, having one thing that can get past ______ puts too much pressure on that one thing for assist teams, in my experience), leaving only two slots for Prankster Assist. The point being that you're either going to get hard-countered by something or you're going to put too much pressure on the one thing on your team that can get past the counters.
That being said, Assist does seem hella annoying to deal with, and I really don't feel like the meta would be losing much if it went away. I also don't feel like we're going to have anything approaching a balanced meta without numerous bans, because Inheritance is basically broken from the get-go.
So with Inheritance basically guaranteed to be OMotM, anyone feel anything is broken/deserves a ban?
Personally, I think we should do something about Assist teams. Sure, [Flash Fire user] stops it, but that's only until your opponent sends out a Mold Breaker Pokemon. What about [Primordial Sea user]? Desolate Lands.
When it gets a ladder, Assist teams will be really annoying and hard to beat.
Anyway, I agree with DarkeKnight on assist. I have been using a powerful assist team that outright DEMOLISHES every team. Seriously. So as much fun i have using assist teams, i am in favour of doing an assist suspect or perhaps even a quick ban.
Edit:
I forgot to say there is a way of using mold-breaker assist, Mega Gyarados (the set straight from my team), and this Pokemon is a MUST on assist teams.
a fire type (Gyarados) (M) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Air Lock
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Dragon Tail
- Roar
- Protect
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 178-210 (55.2 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Considering that it 2HKOs a Pokemon that otherwise completely walls the ENTIRE team, that's pretty darn huge.
I think its worth saying that its much easier to OHKO blissey than chansey, and the ridiculous bulk is why chansey was busted in the first place. Fortunately we don't have to deal with it anyways.
Assist needs to go. I have seen tons of teams fall quickly and efficiently to assist, its just an unfair strategy that requires the use of a dedicated counter. You can be packing lant, primordial sea rotom-w, and a secondary priority user and still fall to these teams; believe me, I have with those exact mons (primo rotom-w is underrated). Requiring the use of such dedicated counters in what is an uncompetitive strategy is basically screaming for a ban, and even then, dedicated counters hardly exist. So you ask yourself: Is assist unhealthy for the metagame? The answer is yes, and all the battles won with it prove this. It also does have deceptively good donors, being able to use prankster, mold breaker, and CONTRARY. How broken contrary is on victini, its fucking ridiculous how bulky it becomes. So yeah, BAN ASSIST.
I think when discussing assist, we need to look at assist teams as teams, and not assist as a move (or one mon). They all focus as one unit, and therefore should be treated as such.
rejoice! Or cry...? the fat blob is dead! or rather, inheriting from Sableye is. no worries though! you still have magic bounce mega sable, or murkrow to inherit from! :) lmao i expected this to look cooler...sorry guys.
basically we had to make a very big choice. sorry if you don't like it.
I think its worth saying that its much easier to OHKO blissey than chansey, and the ridiculous bulk is why chansey was busted in the first place. Fortunately we don't have to deal with it anyways.
Assist needs to go. I have seen tons of teams fall quickly and efficiently to assist, its just an unfair strategy that requires the use of a dedicated counter. You can be packing lant, primordial sea rotom-w, and a secondary priority user and still fall to these teams; believe me, I have with those exact mons (primo rotom-w is underrated). Requiring the use of such dedicated counters in what is an uncompetitive strategy is basically screaming for a ban, and even then, dedicated counters hardly exist. So you ask yourself: Is assist unhealthy for the metagame? The answer is yes, and all the battles won with it prove this. It also does have deceptively good donors, being able to use prankster, mold breaker, and CONTRARY. How broken contrary is on victini, its fucking ridiculous how bulky it becomes. So yeah, BAN ASSIST.
I think when discussing assist, we need to look at assist teams as teams, and not assist as a move (or one mon). They all focus as one unit, and therefore should be treated as such.
I also believe Assist is completely unhealthy. As xJownage appropriately brought up Assist, I encourage others to discuss it. The council is currently figuring out ways to go about this apparent dilemma.
While I don't personally feel that it's completely broken, the fact that it requires dedicated counters leads me to believe that it is indeed ban-worthy. It's also extremely frustrating when you speculate the opposer to have Contrary, but it has something else, cruelly destroying your main counter. The variance alone is enough to drive someone crazy. Just imagine how the gen 5 BH metagame's healthiness would fare if there was an EV limit! The sheer variance, as well as Contrary's great power would pierce through the opposer as if the individual was paper! I wouldn't like to use gen 5 BH for the sake of comparision, but I think it's reasonable in this case.
So what do you think? Is Assist broken or not? Share your thoughts and we, the Inheritance Council, will try to sort this out.
Umm how does Assist V-Create pokes beat Primordial Sea users? If its Wobbuffet, Substitute is enough to deal with it I think (Assist calls Encore, so Wobbuffet won't carry it).
Umm how does Assist V-Create pokes beat Primordial Sea users? If its Wobbuffet, Substitute is enough to deal with it I think (Assist calls Encore, so Wobbuffet won't carry it).
1: A lot of the time people pack a delta stream mon (such as AV Dragonite) to cancel out the primal weather.
2: If you don't have one or you delta stream/air lock mon has been taken out, then Wobbuffet can trap an eliminate prime sea users (since i'm pretty sure most have only attacking moves). And if they aren't mono-attacking (for example they have sub + calm mind) then you can trick a choice item on them before they set up a sub or get another Pokemon on your team to phaze it out.
1: A lot of the time people pack a delta stream mon (such as AV Dragonite) to cancel out the primal weather.
2: If you don't have one or you delta stream/air lock mon has been taken out, then Wobbuffet can trap an eliminate prime sea users (since i'm pretty sure most have only attacking moves). And if they aren't mono-attacking (for example they have sub + calm mind) then you can trick a choice item on them before they set up a sub or get another Pokemon on your team to phaze it out.
I personally see Assist as a gimmick, but quite powerful. Its kinda similar to Baton Pass teams in OU before it got limited. Both are powerful gimmicks in the respective tiers.
BH assistdon was broken but remamber that it's BH so you can carry 5-6 Pdons and all of them carry Assist. Here, because you need Wobbuffet, Mold Breaker, and there is no poke that can carry Assist + V-Create, you only have like two slots left for your Assist user, possibly one Prankster, one Contrary. Maybe its broken but its nowhere near the level on BH Assistdon.
Though I don't know how the hell those two slots of Assist users can decimate many teams when the other non-Assist user basically only have V-Create as an attacking move. I have never used an Assist team so I don't know.
For what it's worth, there IS a hard-counter to Assist + V-Create, but it's super niche.
You're on your own (Relicanth) @ Mail
Ability: Suction Cups
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Rock Slide / Smack Down
- Protect
- Toxic
- Recover
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Relicanth in Sun: 114-135 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- 94% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Mail protects you from Trick. Recover is recovery. Toxic lets you get damage in against things that your Rock STAB won't handle, like Wobbuffet and Contrary. Protect lets you scout for Focus Punch so you can know to keep the hits up with your Rock STAB (Smack Down is just as good at killing V-Creators without risking a miss against Focus Punch), and also racks up Toxic damage, protects you from Copycatted Toxic, AND disrupts Mimic. Suction Cups means Dragon Tail can't phaze you out.
The set basically loses to Focus Punch if they're not choiced (what), and Mega Gyarados can force it out with Dragon Tail (valid concern but you at least get damage in), but that's it.
For what it's worth, there IS a hard-counter to Assist + V-Create, but it's super niche.
You're on your own (Relicanth) @ Mail
Ability: Suction Cups
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Rock Slide / Smack Down
- Protect
- Toxic
- Recover
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Relicanth in Sun: 114-135 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- 94% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Mail protects you from Trick. Recover is recovery. Toxic lets you get damage in against things that your Rock STAB won't handle, like Wobbuffet and Contrary. Protect lets you scout for Focus Punch so you can know to keep the hits up with your Rock STAB (Smack Down is just as good at killing V-Creators without risking a miss against Focus Punch), and also racks up Toxic damage, protects you from Copycatted Toxic, AND disrupts Mimic. Suction Cups means Dragon Tail can't phaze you out.
The set basically loses to Focus Punch if they're not choiced (what), and Mega Gyarados can force it out with Dragon Tail (valid concern but you at least get damage in), but that's it.
Yeah, super-super-niche. This is pretty much dead weight against any non-Assist team. Though I think this does say something about countering Assist. If this thing is the best hard counter for it, then it just goes to show how hard it'll be to counter.
BH assistdon was broken but remamber that it's BH so you can carry 5-6 Pdons and all of them carry Assist. Here, because you need Wobbuffet, Mold Breaker, and there is no poke that can carry Assist + V-Create, you only have like two slots left for your Assist user, possibly one Prankster, one Contrary. Maybe its broken but its nowhere near the level on BH Assistdon.
Though I don't know how the hell those two slots of Assist users can decimate many teams when the other non-Assist user basically only have V-Create as an attacking move. I have never used an Assist team so I don't know.
Some of the best assist teams in BH used 1-3 primal groudons and thats it, they used them with any number of abilities. The stack teams were used in the beginning, but when people realized how surprisingly good the movepool not called by assist was for support they began using those instead. Most assist teams in this meta have 2 or maybe 3 assist abusers, similar to the BH version. Contrary was also not seen in BH, because imposter could beat it out. It is just as bad here.
Don't speak for assist teams support before you use them. Even with only a couple users, they still knife right through many archetypes.
For people who compare it to BP in OU, look how that turned out. Gen 5 BH? Ouch. Yeah, assist needs to go. There is a team way back on this thread that is very effective, so a lot of people could end up using it on the ladder, which would deter newer players. This is a metagame that could end up with a permaladder, so I think we need to treat it carefully so not to deter newcomers.
Would someone mind posting some replays of Assistspam in action? I've never used nor seen Assist being used, so I'd like to see it before having an opinion, although if what I'm reading is true, it probably needs to go.
If it get unbanned, I feel it would be a great attacker to introduce to Inheritance. The power-creep has increased a lot, so its unboosted bulk isn't really as great here. It has lackluster speed and amount of Pokemon that can 2HKO it, as well as tons of priority would make its job of being an really bulky attacker harder. Also its ability to not being able to hold an item other than Griseous Orb also hurts it, not being able to have passive recovery in Leftovers, and not being able to hold a better boosting item like LO.
Of course, it still hits really hard, has great bulk unboosted, as well as a good typing(well, by OU standards, not so much here), and has plenty of options to inherit from like Mega Lucario, Greninja or Kecleon, etc.
If it get unbanned, I feel it would be a great attacker to introduce to Inheritance. The power-creep has increased a lot, so its unboosted bulk isn't really as great here. It has lackluster speed and amount of Pokemon that can 2HKO it, as well as tons of priority would make its job of being an really bulky attacker harder. Also its ability to not being able to hold an item other than Griseous Orb also hurts it, not being able to have passive recovery in Leftovers, and not being able to hold a better boosting item like LO.
Of course, it still hits really hard, has great bulk unboosted, as well as a good typing(well, by OU standards, not so much here), and has plenty of options to inherit from like Mega Lucario, Greninja or Kecleon, etc.
Going off the assumption that the suspect is legit, because it's not like I'm doing anything productive right now anyways...
I feel like Gira-O could be kept in check by dint of its unfortunate defensive typing. Ice and Fairy are important attacking types in this meta, but more importantly, except for Fighting, none of its resists are terribly important. As a defensive Pokemon, I think I'd usually rather run Aegislash -- unless I need Giratina for some niche, that is. And Inheritance does have a tendency to make you find weird niches (I've considered Hydreigon as a dedicated Trick Room setter before).
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina-O: 510-602 (101.1 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina-O: 510-600 (101.1 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Landorus-T Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina-O: 252-297 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Weavile Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina-O: 385-455 (76.3 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I think Giratina-O's niche in this meta is probably a bulky attacking role -- it's not fast enough to sweep on its own, but Ghost+Dragon has surprisingly good neutral coverage (if lacking SE coverage), and you do need a super-effective move to break through in one shot. Inheriting from Mega Charizard X, it gets Shadow Claw and Dragon Claw as STABS and can run WoW, Roost, Dragon Dance, and a few good coverage moves. On the special side, Darkrai can give Shadow Ball and Spacial Rend, as well as NP and Dark Void and whatnot. Mega Lucario can give it Adaptability Dragon Pulse and Shadow Ball, along with options to boost Speed and Special Attack and Aura Sphere for coverage.
I don't think it would break Inheritance, but it's honestly hard to say because the meta's kinda half-broken all the time anyways.
Going off the assumption that the suspect is legit, because it's not like I'm doing anything productive right now anyways...
I feel like Gira-O could be kept in check by dint of its unfortunate defensive typing. Ice and Fairy are important attacking types in this meta, but more importantly, except for Fighting, none of its resists are terribly important. As a defensive Pokemon, I think I'd usually rather run Aegislash -- unless I need Giratina for some niche, that is. And Inheritance does have a tendency to make you find weird niches (I've considered Hydreigon as a dedicated Trick Room setter before).
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina-O: 510-602 (101.1 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina-O: 510-600 (101.1 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Landorus-T Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina-O: 252-297 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Weavile Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina-O: 385-455 (76.3 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I think Giratina-O's niche in this meta is probably a bulky attacking role -- it's not fast enough to sweep on its own, but Ghost+Dragon has surprisingly good neutral coverage (if lacking SE coverage), and you do need a super-effective move to break through in one shot. Inheriting from Mega Charizard X, it gets Shadow Claw and Dragon Claw as STABS and can run WoW, Roost, Dragon Dance, and a few good coverage moves. On the special side, Darkrai can give Shadow Ball and Spacial Rend, as well as NP and Dark Void and whatnot. Mega Lucario can give it Adaptability Dragon Pulse and Shadow Ball, along with options to boost Speed and Special Attack and Aura Sphere for coverage.
I don't think it would break Inheritance, but it's honestly hard to say because the meta's kinda half-broken all the time anyways.
Darkrai doesn't get Spacial Rend. Your last sentence is true though lol. Mega Lucario probably is the best donor for Giratina-O if this unbanning thing is not a joke (but, uh, it most likely is) as Adaptability, both of its STABs and Nasty Plot or Agility (or both if you want) is pretty good, with Aura Sphere, Dark Pulse, Psychic, and Flash Cannon for coverage, as well as Vacuum Wave for priority if you want.
Tho Gira-O could be pretty terrifyingly strong for inheritance, so I would think giving it the Kyurem-B treatment and banning it would be best thing to do cause inheritance can make it patch up its normal faults bit too well by giving it recovery and even better ability.
Tho Gira-O could be pretty terrifyingly strong for inheritance, so I would think giving it the Kyurem-B treatment and banning it would be best thing to do cause inheritance can make it patch up its normal faults bit too well by giving it recovery and even better ability.
Huh, that's weird, it doesn't say anything on Serebii about that on the gen 6 dex, but it does in the gen 4 dex now that I look. Couldn't get on PS to do /learn :L
I also think that IF Gira-O is not a joke it should be banned.
Like most, I'm expecting Inheritance to win OMOTM at this point, so I'm just gonna go ahead with a next level theorymon dump.
Doubt this will be too scary given that this meta seems to have some ridiculous threats running around, but this variation of Poison Heal Snorlax from XY OU Theorymons will still likely be able to go to town once the few (however more in this meta) things that break it are taken out.
Basically after just 1 boost you are extremely hard to break from either side with that ridiculous passive healing and the ability to double it with protect, so once you get an opportunity to boost you can often just keep going till you can KO everything with STAB Facade. Originally you'd use Crunch but Breloom has no dark moves so the filler if a bit iffy. Thunder Punch hits most ghosts neutrally and in general has decent neutral coverage. Seed Bomb hits Rock types but means you can't beat steels or Gengar, and Leech Seed is to say "I don't give a shit about ghosts, I just wanna ruin you day". Tbh Leed Seed is probably your best option once phazers are gone.
The OP doesn't say that Arena Trap is banned which I think is odd. But if this is indeed the case then a lot of things could likely be epic inheriting from Trapinch. I mean Arena Trap plus any combination of moves like Super Power, Earthquake, Crunch, Earth Power, Giga Drain and Hidden Power could probably be given out to a whole bunch of strong pokemon that get STAB off of that stuff.
Sticking to the theme of trapping, Probopass!
Magnet Pull along side Fire Punch, Earthquake and Earth power make things inheriting from Probopass epic steal killers. Probopass' move pool is actually quite expansive with Flash Cannon, Thunderbolt (For Skarm), Volt Switch, Power Gem, Stone Edge, Hidden Power and some other goodies thrown into the mix.
Some good abusers off of the top of my head would be; Darmanitan, Camerupt, Magmortar, Entei and Heatran.
I'll use Heatran as an example steel killer:
252 SpA Heatran Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 262-310 (78.4 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Heatran: 288-340 (74.8 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 428-508 (132 - 156.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 264-312 (97 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
12 Atk Heatran Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor: 204-244 (59.4 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
12 Atk Heatran Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 204-244 (57.9 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 340-402 (104.9 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 138-164 (42.5 - 50.6%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
12 Atk Heatran Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 316-376 (111.6 - 132.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I'd assume most fast special attackers would have a hard time overlooking the Nidos for there great coverage and ability.
Also Wigglytuff would be great for special attackers to inherit from thanks to Competitive and a terrific special move pool including gems such as Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Psychic, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, Hyper Voice, Dazzling Gleam and of course Hidden Power.
Mienshao would be absolutely epic to inherit from and could spawn some awesome Assault Vest Users.
From Mienshao an Assault Vest user could grab anything it could ever wish for including; recovery from Regenerator AND Drain Punch, utility in Knock Off, momentum in U-Turn, Priority/Utility in Fake Out, a nuke in HJK, and decent coverage.
Fighting types would likely be best as they resist SR (epic for an AV pivot) and get STAB on Drain Punch, HJK and Focus Blast.
Good abusers would include Heracross, Throh, Virizion, Terrakion and plenty of other fighters.
A few sets would likely look something like this:
Mienshao (Terrakion) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out / Knock Off / Drain Punch
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- U-Turn
Mienshao (Throh) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Darin Punch
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab / Stone Edge
- U-Turn
Tornadus-T would also be good to inherit from as an AV user for all the same reasons it itself is a good AV abuser.
Lastly I'd just like to share a few sorta niche sets which I think would be fun to use and actually competitively viable on the right team.
These include;
The reason this is gimmicky is because you obtain Lightning Rod upon mega evolving. Hence its like Mega Sharpedo, you got one shot to boost and sweep. Set up with a Leaf Storm or two, Mega evolve and then go for broke. Giga Drain is a grass STAB that won't lose you your boosts, Dragon Pulse is your dragon STAB, and Hidden Power is for whatever coverage you want in Fire, Ground, Rock, whatever.
Its Critdra but actually good! After just one boost you have 100% crit chance, meaning a). Your STAB Draco Meteors are doing fuck tonnes of damage. and b). Your STAB Draco Meteors that are doing fuck tonnes of damage aren't getting any weaker because critting allows you to ignore the SpA drops. Latias makes it easier to set up, but Latios has more power. Take your pick. Also the last two moves are coverage, if you want you could opt for a Hidden Power idk.
Get big with Contrary Super Power boosting your Atk and Def. Sweep with Atk boosts and STAB Sucker Punch, or sustain with Drain Punch. Can either go for more coverage with the elemental punches or go for the utility in Rapid Spin. Also works with Scrafty > Pangoro or Malamar > Spinda. Malamar doesn't get Sucker Punch but does get Knock Off and Topsy Turvy.
This is probably the most gimmicky of my sets but it is actually a really cool pivot, and one of the few things that make use of Floatzel's Water Veil + Switcheroo niche as well as the rest of its shallow kit. They will never be certain that you have a Flame Orb thanks to Water Veil making you immune to Burn. Then, due to you having far more SpD than Def, you lure in physical attackers, and then Trick them and Flame Orb, screwing them over for the rest of the game and making them irrelevant. Sub BP makes it a great pivot, and then in the last slot for STAB you can either go for SubPunch or Focus-miss. Very niche, but still a viable, solid and fun to use pivot.
And that's it for this next level theorymon dump. Hope you enjoyed.
It inherits from Trapinch. Basically stops anything that tries to stall you as long as it isn't a Poison Heal user. It was especially good against Sableye Chansey though that doesn't exist anymore.
As for Contrary, I don't understand why you chose Pangoro over Terrakion. The only advantage it has is Dark STAB. Literally all you need to do with Terrakion is spam Superpower and kill everything that isn't a ghost type.
As for Contrary, I don't understand why you chose Pangoro over Terrakion. The only advantage it has is Dark STAB. Literally all you need to do with Terrakion is spam Superpower and kill everything that isn't a ghost type.
Like most, I'm expecting Inheritance to win OMOTM at this point, so I'm just gonna go ahead with a next level theorymon dump.
Doubt this will be too scary given that this meta seems to have some ridiculous threats running around, but this variation of Poison Heal Snorlax from XY OU Theorymons will still likely be able to go to town once the few (however more in this meta) things that break it are taken out.
i just want to throw it out there, that i posted this on the first page and lmao its actually not as good as it sounds. there are way too many nukes. and the stuff you want to wall and set up on usually runs fighting coverage for chans anyways. personally, poison heal from gliscor(albeit no bulk up) has been doing wonders for me, seeing how it still has a 140 stab attack along with knock off, meanwhile getting recovery AND defog/batonpass/u-turn, making it a amazing special wall/pivot
Speaking of Terrakion: It basically roflstomped the last two teams I've built, and I needed some way to deal with opposing boosting anyways, so I whipped up this:
Azumarill @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
- Toxic / Calm Mind / Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
Azumarill has very fortunate defensive typing and pretty good bulk, so I decided to take advantage of that and port Clefable's physically defensive Unaware set over to it. There's jack shit Contrary Terrakion can do to it:
252 Atk Terrakion Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 164-194 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery <<< The absolute most Scarf Terrakion can do to it, lol. Thunder Punch isn't even a reliable 3HKO.
It also walls Weaviles, any Tyranitars that aren't Banded Adaptability, Glalies and Altarias without Volt Tackle, QD Suicune (though it might have to worry about something it passes those boosts to), CM non-mega Diancie (though if it can get a Toxic in pre-mega, you'll win).
Third slot exists to suit your needs is Calm Mind (see below), Soft-Boiled and Moonblast should be self-explanatory, Heal Bell is so that they can't just hit you with Toxic and call it a day.
EDIT: Okay, after playing a tour with this thing, I gotta say that I really can't see myself using anything but Calm Mind in slot three.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-222439655 Here's it easily setting up to +6 and, given an opportunity to use Moonblast to avoid Encore, cut through half of the opposing team, only actually stopped by a timely crit from Suicune. This is a tour finals, by the btw.
Seriously, Azumarill's particular combination of resistances and quite usable natural physical bulk make it a surprisingly good Calm Mind user with Unaware. It sets up alongside anything that might try to set up on it. After a few Calm Minds, your only good option is to hit it super-effectively on the physical side, and Grass/Poison/Electric aren't the best physical attacking types to do that with. Calm Mind also makes it much, much less passive than Toxic and Stealth Rock would.
It inherits from Trapinch. Basically stops anything that tries to stall you as long as it isn't a Poison Heal user. It was especially good against Sableye Chansey though that doesn't exist anymore.
As for Contrary, I don't understand why you chose Pangoro over Terrakion. The only advantage it has is Dark STAB. Literally all you need to do with Terrakion is spam Superpower and kill everything that isn't a ghost type.
If they can't do anything beside status and Seismic Toss/Night Shade, why Sleep Talk? Waste two turns is okay if they can't set up or do anything to you. That's why I prefer set up. You can beat Poison Heal users this way, as long as it doesn't set up.
