Inheritance [Prime Council Elected]

[jackm]

Having been disappointed with Chansey inheriting from Xatu, I shopped around for other Magic Bouncers that could heal. I ended up inheriting from Espeon, expecting to abandon it in disgust in short order, just like Xatu.

Espeon Chansey is amazing.

It can switch in on most stallmons and the vast majority of Special attackers, Wish, and then Baton Pass to react to the enemy's switch (Or lack thereof) if I'm not confident a manual switch is safe. By far the biggest implication of this is safe Wish-passing. If my relevant Unaware wall is so badly mauled it can't actually switch into a Special setup sweeper, or worse yet so badly mauled I can't even sacrifice something and revenge with it, Chansey can ensure it comes in on full health without being hurt anyway. Espeon also provides the ever-valuable Heal Bell, and the fact that Wish is slow isn't even a problem: I can Wishtect, and Protect is itself useful for burning PP on low PP moves, scouting for possible Trick or Knock Off attempts, or waiting out temporary effects such as Sandstorm.

The result isn't even really Taunt bait, because they need Mold Breaker to get past Magic Bounce, and Mold Breaker Taunt A: isn't that popular and B: isn't a surprise. (Because Mold Breaker announces itself) Plus, most Mold Breaker Taunters are Physical attackers you shouldn't be switching Chansey into anyway. Mega Ampharos is really the only exception, and I haven't actually seen it yet.

It can even stall out the PP of most non-Choice Specs Desolate Land/Primordial Sea Eruption/Water Spout spam via Wishtecting.

252+ SpA Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Harsh Sunshine: 207-244 (32.2 - 38%) -- 95.8% chance to 3HKO

It's a fairly passive Pokemon, but I can even see it being used on more offensive teams as a way to, for instance, safely bring in more fragile Scarfers, bounce enemy hazards, clear major status problems, and maybe even extend the life of your Pokemon via Wish. I dunno. It's great stuff for stall, anyway.

I've been running Chansey inheriting from Sableye-Mega; with Recover/Foul Play/Will-O-Wisp/Metal Burst, you can pressure a LOT of offensive Pokemon into switching out. Plus, if you haven't revealed yourself yet, Metal Burst can be used to pinch kill most sweepers that aren't Fighting-Type/really strong physically. Unfortunately, it can't wish pass, but it's far less passive than the set you describe. It's (in my opinion) preferable on stall, although I think Espeon-Chansey is a huge weapon for offense.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Some sets I've been using lately.

Terrakion @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
Stealth Rock
Stone Edge
Close Combat
Knock Off

Inherits from Pinsir. Simple suicide lead - Mold Breaker stops Magic Bounce shenanigans.

Pidgeot @ Pidgeottite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
Grass Whistle
Hurricane
U-turn / Stun Spore / Taunt / Encore / Memento
U-turn / Stun Spore / Taunt / Encore / Memento

Inherits from Whimsicott. Prankster pre mega lets you cripple a foe with priority Grass Whistle, which won't miss thanks to No Guard. Hurricane is your STAB move. In the final 2 slots you can use pretty much anything you want - U-turn lets you scout, Stun Spore can cripple a fast attacker, Taunt renders a non Magic Bounce wall helpless, Encore wrecks bulky boosters, Memento could sacrifice Pidgeot when you don't need it anymore.

 

[NyneTiNyne]

You'll note that I haven't been positing sets that make any real sacrifices to the Pokemon's core functionality. Landorus-Therian inheriting from Victini has no STAB moves of any competency. That's basically a lure set. Hoopa running a coverage move while still having Nasty Plot, Shadow Ball, and Psyshock is not remotely equivalent: it makes no sacrifices, or very minor sacrifices (Swapping out Adaptability for Regenerator, say) to achieve this result.

Having Regenerator over Adaptability is a big thing:

252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 274-325 (38.9 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Without Adaptability, Hoopa cannot break Chansey without boosting. Even when it is running Nasty Plot, Chansey with Foul Play CAN OHKO it:

0- Atk Chansey Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hoopa: 400-472 (109.8 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

In Hoopa's case, my concern is that if you don't have a Dark type, it can break your wall, because of how hideously powerful its Psyshock is. If you do have a Dark type...

252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 250-296 (63.4 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

... this is the bulkiest possible Unaware Dark type Special wall. But let's look at Mandibuzz.

252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Mandibuzz: 229-270 (54.1 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Now, of course, any given Hoopa can only kill one or the other, assuming the Nasty Plot set, but this is exceedingly narrow constraints for having any shot of a stall team being able to beat Nasty Plot Hoopa.

While you can run dazzling gleam on Hoopa, let's see which abilities it can run with it:

/ds shadow ball, psyshock, dazzling gleam, nasty plot:
Azelf, Drowzee, Girafarig, Hypno, Mew, Mr. Mime, Smeargle, Togekiss, Togepi, Togetic

Yeah, Sap Sipper/Soundproof Hoopa sounds cool. Only Mew and the Togekiss line even get recovery and while Serene Grace can be useful with the stat drops, you can't say you are not sacrificing anything just to get past a particular wall. As I stated with Leaf Blade M-Medicham, nobody is going to say: 'Oh I can't get past Mandibuzz with Adaptability Hoopa, let's give it a set with no good ability but 1 that does get past Mandibuzz.' Leaf Blade M-Medicham even gets to keep most of it's moves it wants to run and doesn't care about abilities, but Hoopa needs to run a much more inferior set just for 1 move that can get past 1 wall.

To summarize, if I would run both Mandibuzz and Chansey (which I do run on my stallteam) I could check all Adaptability Hoopa sets with Mandibuzz because it would not be able to run Dazzling Gleam and the other are walled by Chansey because they don't run Adaptability. While you could say I now run 2 counters to Hoopa on 1 team, but these are both not dedicated to only countering Hoopa. Chansey functions as a wall to almost any Special attacker and Mandibuzz (It runs Prankster Haze/Taunt) functions as a wall to Gyarados-Mega (if it is not running Stone Edge) and it prevents Magic Bouncers like Cress from setting up Calm Minds and sweeping with Stored Power.

Having been disappointed with Chansey inheriting from Xatu, I shopped around for other Magic Bouncers that could heal. I ended up inheriting from Espeon, expecting to abandon it in disgust in short order, just like Xatu.

Espeon Chansey is amazing.

It can switch in on most stallmons and the vast majority of Special attackers, Wish, and then Baton Pass to react to the enemy's switch (Or lack thereof) if I'm not confident a manual switch is safe. By far the biggest implication of this is safe Wish-passing. If my relevant Unaware wall is so badly mauled it can't actually switch into a Special setup sweeper, or worse yet so badly mauled I can't even sacrifice something and revenge with it, Chansey can ensure it comes in on full health without being hurt anyway. Espeon also provides the ever-valuable Heal Bell, and the fact that Wish is slow isn't even a problem: I can Wishtect, and Protect is itself useful for burning PP on low PP moves, scouting for possible Trick or Knock Off attempts, or waiting out temporary effects such as Sandstorm.

The result isn't even really Taunt bait, because they need Mold Breaker to get past Magic Bounce, and Mold Breaker Taunt A: isn't that popular and B: isn't a surprise. (Because Mold Breaker announces itself) Plus, most Mold Breaker Taunters are Physical attackers you shouldn't be switching Chansey into anyway. Mega Ampharos is really the only exception, and I haven't actually seen it yet.

It can even stall out the PP of most non-Choice Specs Desolate Land/Primordial Sea Eruption/Water Spout spam via Wishtecting.

252+ SpA Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Harsh Sunshine: 207-244 (32.2 - 38%) -- 95.8% chance to 3HKO

It's a fairly passive Pokemon, but I can even see it being used on more offensive teams as a way to, for instance, safely bring in more fragile Scarfers, bounce enemy hazards, clear major status problems, and maybe even extend the life of your Pokemon via Wish. I dunno. It's great stuff for stall, anyway.

I don't know what you think makes Espeon Chansey so much better than Xatu Chansey. You say you like Espeon Chansey so much because it can Wish-pass safely into anything you want, but Xatu does learn Wish as well and U-turn. So Xatu Chansey can also run that same set. The only advantage Espeon has is Heal Bell and while that is a big thing, running a set of Wish/Protect/Baton Pass/Heal Bell is the definition of passive. Litterally anything can set-up on it if it wants to. Don't get me wrong, the Espeon set is very, very good but I think the Xatu set is as good as the Espeon set. It's just the difference between not having Heal Bell or having nothing to pressure the opponent with besides the fact you can always Baton Pass out to something.

I really like the fact you brought both sets up tho, because they are very, very useful on any kind of team and imo are better than Sableye-Mega Chansey on every team except for maybe stall as stall is already passive and Sableye-Mega Chansey pressures the opponent at least a bit with Will-O-Wisp, Foul Play or Metal Burst.

 

[motherlove]

One thing I want to point out about dynamic punch is that it only has 8pp, making it much easier to deal with. Specially if you have regenerator mons or ph mons. Not to mention intimidate is a thing on stall teams in inh. There's no way that a dynamic punch mon can sweep past your entire team imo.

 

[Ghoul King]

While you can run dazzling gleam on Hoopa, let's see which abilities it can run with it:

/ds shadow ball, psyshock, dazzling gleam, nasty plot:
Azelf, Drowzee, Girafarig, Hypno, Mew, Mr. Mime, Smeargle, Togekiss, Togepi, Togetic

Yeah, Sap Sipper/Soundproof Hoopa sounds cool. Only Mew and the Togekiss line even get recovery and while Serene Grace can be useful with the stat drops, you can't say you are not sacrificing anything just to get past a particular wall. As I stated with Leaf Blade M-Medicham, nobody is going to say: 'Oh I can't get past Mandibuzz with Adaptability Hoopa, let's give it a set with no good ability but 1 that does get past Mandibuzz.' Leaf Blade M-Medicham even gets to keep most of it's moves it wants to run and doesn't care about abilities, but Hoopa needs to run a much more inferior set just for 1 move that can get past 1 wall.

If I ran Dazzling Gleam Nasty Plot Hoopa, I'd probably take Super Luck and replace the Life Orb with a Scope Lens. Suddenly every move has a 50% chance of being a critical hit, hitting almost as hard as Life Orb Adaptability... only applying to Dazzling Gleam as well. Arguably gimmicky, but less gimmicky than Sap Sipper Hoopa or the like.

Soundproof is a way to ignore Perish Song attempts to force out your setup sweeper, as well as miscellaneous immunities such as ignoring Boomburst. Please don't pretend it's irrelevant. Sub-optimal, maybe, but not irrelevant.

Though I'm disappointed at how awful Mr. Mime's Special Technician movepool is. Really? No Draining Kiss or anything? It has barely anything that qualifies without just being bad.

To summarize, if I would run both Mandibuzz and Chansey (which I do run on my stallteam) I could check all Adaptability Hoopa sets with Mandibuzz because it would not be able to run Dazzling Gleam and the other are walled by Chansey because they don't run Adaptability. While you could say I now run 2 counters to Hoopa on 1 team, but these are both not dedicated to only countering Hoopa. Chansey functions as a wall to almost any Special attacker and Mandibuzz (It runs Prankster Haze/Taunt) functions as a wall to Gyarados-Mega (if it is not running Stone Edge) and it prevents Magic Bouncers like Cress from setting up Calm Minds and sweeping with Stored Power.

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 551-651 (85.8 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Usually.

Or, almost never if Hoopa's team has Stealth Rock up.

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 551-651 (85.8 - 101.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I remain unconvinced that Hoopa's non-Adaptability sets are making a major sacrifice. It can kill Chansey with Psyshock, just less reliably than Adaptability, and if the team can keep hazards up it only occasionally misses the OHKO.

I don't know what you think makes Espeon Chansey so much better than Xatu Chansey. You say you like Espeon Chansey so much because it can Wish-pass safely into anything you want, but Xatu does learn Wish as well and U-turn. So Xatu Chansey can also run that same set. The only advantage Espeon has is Heal Bell and while that is a big thing, running a set of Wish/Protect/Baton Pass/Heal Bell is the definition of passive. Litterally anything can set-up on it if it wants to. Don't get me wrong, the Espeon set is very, very good but I think the Xatu set is as good as the Espeon set. It's just the difference between not having Heal Bell or having nothing to pressure the opponent with besides the fact you can always Baton Pass out to something.

I really like the fact you brought both sets up tho, because they are very, very useful on any kind of team and imo are better than Sableye-Mega Chansey on every team except for maybe stall as stall is already passive and Sableye-Mega Chansey pressures the opponent at least a bit with Will-O-Wisp, Foul Play or Metal Burst.

I actually didn't notice Xatu got Wish, but in any event I prefer Baton Pass because it doesn't risk Rocky Helmet/Rough Skin/Iron Barbs/Flame Body/etc and has more PP. Heal Bell was a lifesaver because I've been trying to fit it onto my team for ages and couldn't get it on anything else without making some substantial sacrifice to the team's overall effectiveness.

The thing about slow Wish-passing is it allows you to recover from missteps. Oops, you lost 80% on Suicune because the enemy Pokemon you thought Suicune walled isn't walled by Suicune, and now you can't switch in Suicune ever again except as a sacrifice because nothing on the enemy team is incapable of finishing it off before it can move. Wait! Chansey to the rescue! This makes a stall team substantially more resistant to RNG-screw and unexpected sets that don't actually OHKO anything of yours. The Mega Sableye sets are definitely better at threatening enemies, and double as a lure to Physical attackers dumb enough to switch into it without being immune to Burn and able to survive a Foul Play, but they don't help the team recover from the kind of missteps that can cause a stall team to go from winning to doomed.

 

[NyneTiNyne]

If I ran Dazzling Gleam Nasty Plot Hoopa, I'd probably take Super Luck and replace the Life Orb with a Scope Lens. Suddenly every move has a 50% chance of being a critical hit, hitting almost as hard as Life Orb Adaptability... only applying to Dazzling Gleam as well. Arguably gimmicky, but less gimmicky than Sap Sipper Hoopa or the like.

I overlooked the fact Togekiss got Super Luck, nice set. But you can't deny it still has to sacrifice for it. And while the crits do let you get past Chansey, you only have a 25% chance of getting 2 back to back and 2 crits only have a 33.2% of 2HKO'ing when Chansey is invested in HP as well. This makes it about 8,3% while Chansey can kill with Foul Play 100% of the time.

EDIT: I overlooked the potential of Hoopa getting to +2 which does have more chance of netting a KO but it still only is 16,6% on HP-invested Chansey.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

A couple sets I've been enjoying recently..

Heatran @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast

Inherits from Druddigon
This is a nice buff for offensive Tran with Sf+Lo boosted Stabs, excellent coverage, and the luxury of running LO for free. Thanks to Heatran's good typing and well balanced base stats it only struggles against a sparse few specially defensive mons, namely AV Goodra and Chansey. It can be a horror to unprepared teams.


Regirock @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Rock Slide
- Body Slam

Inherits from Salamence
This is a good buff to Regirock's already stellar defensive capabilities. Roost and defog allow it to easily remove hazards vs many physical attackers throughout the match. Body Slam and Rock Slide are the bread and butter of this set forcing out physical attackers with a para chance on the switch in and anything already para has an increased flinch chance from Rock Slide.

 

[Jajoken]

Thundurus (Kecleon, Greninja, Kyogre, Nidoking, Genesect, Lugia)

That ain't Thundy.

On the note of the Chatter suspect, I'll just repeat my earlier thoughts: nothing would be lost for the metagame by banning it, but all things considered, it's not worth banning. Might as well axe it just to make people happy, but that may open the door for questionable moves like suspecting inheriting from Machamp and Golurk.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

That ain't Thundy.

no, it's not
also medicham and char x's sprites are incorrect


chatter is little more than an annoynce to me. it isn't a serious problem imo. as long as only one mon can carry chatter, then why not? seems like a very limited strategy to me. if we start seeing own tempo specially defensive mons on the ladder then we know we have a problem.

 

[NyneTiNyne]

Nice work on the ladder guys. But...

1) Were is Mandibuzz? It can serve as a really good wall and wall a plethora of things, one of those being Adaptability Hoopa. You don't have to put it too high, but it deserves a place imo
2) Put Espeon as a donor for Chansey ;)

 

[Lcass4919]

suicune is NOT S rank. its good, but losing masqurain was a HUGE nerf to it. A+ is perhaps best for it atm, meta SHOULD probably move up, as from what ive seen, offense just straight up loses to it if they dont run specific mons like doublade to counter it.

also, as much as i hate banning stuff dispite it not being all that great, my stance has kinda changed on chatter, after talking with some pro banners, it came to my attention, that chatter isnt broken, it is by definition, uncompetative, and dispite the meta being able to handle it, there is a percentage that even with said counters, you CAN lose to it. swagger was banned due to being uncompetative, and chatter is on a similar boat. my stance is kind of out of balance so im not really going to take part in this suspect (or maybe im just using that as an exuse to play smash more...oh well). basically, if we go by the definition of uncompetative OU uses, chatter is banworthy.

 

[canno]

yo where's my main man Aromatisse?

It's like Clef but better

 

[xJownage]

Lcass, Suicune is by far S-rank worthy. The unaware set walls almost every viable setup sweeper in inheritance, and is a major pain for offensive teams to deal with. Furthermore, setup sweepers that can't one-shot it are subject to haze. Suicune single-handedly makes the stall playstyle, and that's why it's S-rank and not likely to change.

 

[Jajoken]

My stance on Chatter has not changed, but I just witnessed Chatter/Substitute/Boomburst/Nasty Plot? Leftovers Porygon-Z on the ladder. Got to admit, that one threw me for a loop. Still won though.

I'd also like to share a Pokemon that absolute needs a ranking. At least somewhere in the high B's, but it served me so well that I'd push for A- or even A

Sceptile @ Miracle Seed/Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Giga Drain
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Basically, run any standard Serperior set with Sceptile for a wallbreaker that beats nearly every common Unaware user. If you have answers for priority (which you kind of need in this OM) then it will rarely let you down.

252 SpA Miracle Seed Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 390-462 (96.5 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Suicune obviously can't switch in, even at +0. Seems obvious, but often Suicune is a team's only answer to setup sweepers, so Sceptile will often steamroll the whole team with repeated Leaf Storms. Life Orb OHKOs (of course).

252 SpA Miracle Seed Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 175-207 (39.4 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 188-224 (42.3 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Cresselia also can't switch in if it's taken any prior damage, and Stealth Rocks narrow down the rolls in your favor, especially if running Life Orb.

There are other Unaware users I've seen, but most of them can't take two Leaf Storms or Leaf Storm + Coverage. Because of this, Sceptile serves as an excellent way to soften up or straight up kill Unaware users for other setup sweepers to do their job late game. You can also vary your moveset with options like Glare, Substitute and Hidden Power Ground (to deal with Desotran). The only support Sceptile needs is an answer for priority and a way to deal with Levitran and FF Ferrothorn (usually a Fighting type or Fighting coverage).

I recommend you try it out yourself, but I can probably find some replays of it in action for naysayers.

 

[Manchamp]

I fully agree with xJownage that Suicune is S-Rank. It's arguably the best Unaware wall due to its great compatibility with Quagsire's move pool, stats, and typing. Suicune is the bulkiest all-around water type, and only has 2 weaknesses (to fairly uncommon coverage types) which makes it an incredible stop to most setup sweepers. Stopping sweepers isn't important? In a meta where anything can get Shell Smash + Carracostas diverse move pool, belly drum from Azu or Magmortar, QD, Geomancy, Swords Dance paired with Lucario's gourgeous movepool and ability combinations, stopping setup sweepers is arguably the most important job. Suicune also walls many wall breakers

Proof

252+ Atk Aerilate Landorus-T Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 169-201 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

SD all you want Lando, you ain't 2HKOing this monster without a crit.

252+ Atk Thick Club Protean Marowak Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 172-204 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Usually the strongest move this set runs is Sucker Punch, so here's a stronger coverage move to beat Suicune. Oh wait..

I've seen a lot of SD PoisonHeal/Technician Terrakions

252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 165-196 (40.8 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Adaptability breaks Suicune, so maybe run that if you want to beat it.

How about Sandstream to MegaChomp?

252 Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune in Sand: 169-201 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 144-171 (35.6 - 42.3%) -- 90.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

And remember, all these physical attackers could be at +6 attack.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Chatter is being suspected tested

You need to reach 1400 on the ladder to comment, and you don't need an alt. Post atleast 10 lines of text for your reasoning behind ban/no ban. The deadline is seven days

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Inheritance viability rankings​

Definition of ranks have been removed as they are too easy to skew in favour of your argument, regardless of where you want something placed, nominations should be based around replays and solid arguments

S Rank

Suicune (Quagsire, Slowking, Corsola, Starmie)

Altaria-Mega (Rayquaza, Lucario, Genesect, Dragonite, Starmie, Linoone, Togekiss)

A+ Rank

Cresselia (Xatu, Murkrow, Sableye-Mega, Sigilyph, Clefable, Breloom, Swoobat, Venomoth)

Terrakion (Spinda, Lucario-Mega, Heracross-Mega, Machamp, Breloom, Omastar, Conkeldurr, Pangoro, Malamar, Barbaracle)

Pinsir-Mega (Lucario, Rayquaza, Genesect, Linoone)

Gyarados-Mega (Huntail, Crawdaunt, Carracosta, Azumarill)

Azelf (Kecleon, Greninja)

Chansey (Mega Sableye, Clefable, Mew, Xatu, Volbeat, Audino, Absol-Mega)

Heatran (Flygon, Hydreigon, Victreebel, Groudon-Primal, Camerupt-Mega, Solrock)

Snorlax (Gliscor, Breloom, Dragonite, Mega Lucario)

Landorus-T (Kecleon, Salamence-Mega, Ho-oh, Blaziken, Rayquaza-Mega)

Doublade (Xatu, Flareon, Solrock, Arcanine, Flygon, Miltank, Clefable, Sableye-Mega)

A Rank

Glalie-Mega (Lucario, Rayquaza, Genesect, Linoone, Noivern)

Weavile (Glalie-Mega, Darkrai, Yveltal, Conkeldurr, Lucario-Mega)

Metagross-Mega (Genesect, Pikachu, Deoxys, Emboar, Thundurus, Clefable)

Thundurus (Kecleon, Greninja, Kyogre, Nidoking, Genesect, Lugia)

Greninja (Kyogre, Deoxys, Manaphy, Crawdaunt, Blastoise-Mega)

Tyranitar (Crawdaunt, Absol-Mega, Shuckle, Carracosta, Yveltal, Crustle)

Lopunny-Mega (Lucario, Linoone)

Mega Charizard X (Victini, Rayquaza)Medicham-Mega (Lucario-Mega, Scrafty)

Medicham-Mega (Lucario-Mega, Scrafty)

A- Rank

Genesect (Kyogre-Primal, Beedrill Mega, Venomoth)

Excadrill (Lucario-Mega, Toxicroak, Blaziken, Larvitar)

Latios (Swoobat, Kecleon, Dragalge, Reshiram, Nidoking, Druddigon, Blastoise-Mega, Kingdra)

Ursaring (Lucario-Mega, Pikachu, Genesect, Linoone)

Mew (Clefable, Swoobat, Xatu, Sableye-Mega -------)

Latias (Clefable, Greninja, Swoobat, Dragalge)

Gengar (Nidoking, Rampardos, Zoroark)

Alakazam (Kecleon, Darmanitan)

Zapdos (Ho-Oh, Clefable)

Gardevoir-Mega (Exploud, Noivern, Chatot, Flygon)

Goodra (Slowking, Mienshao)

Slowbro-Mega (Mew, Swoobat)

Staraptor (Lucario-Mega, Rayquaza-Mega, Togekiss, Salamence-Mega)

B+ rank

Hoopa (Kecleon, Porygon-Z)

Diancie-Mega (Manaphy, Absol-Mega, Mew, Rayquaza, Mawile)

Hippowdon (Ho-oh, Gliscor, Quagsire)

Garchomp (Trapinch, Pangoro, Gliscor, Larvitar)

Aerodactyl-Mega (Rayquaza-Mega, Staraptor)

Mamoswine(Lucario-Mega, Goalie-Mega)

Lucario-Mega (Lucario-Mega, Genesect, Aegislash)

Diancie (Cradily, Gastrodon, Mienshao, Clefable, Quagsire, Lunatone, Flygon, Sableye-Mega, Salamence)

Meloetta(Whimscott, Exploud, Chatot, Noivern, Audino, Clefable)

Raikou (Kyogre-Primal, Mesprit, Manectric-Mega, Latias)

Throh (Breloom, Meinshao, Gliscor)

Umbreon (Volbeat)

Regirock (Mienshao, Quagsire, Clefable, Hippowdon, Gliscor, Salamence)

Skarmory (Arcanine, Flareon, Clefable, Xatu)

Pidgeot-Mega (Noivern, Regice, Genesect, Dragonite, Chatot, Whimsicott, Mewtwo)

Kyurem-N (Abomasnow, Aurorus, Kecleon, Dragalge)

B rank

Salamence (Kecleon, Salamence-Mega, Rayquaza-Mega)

Rotom-Wash (Kyogre-Primal)

Porygon-Z (Noivern, Chatot, Whimsicott, Exploud)

Togekiss (Xerneas, Altaria-Mega, Clefable)

Gardevoir (Xerneas, Mega-Altaria)

Entei (Ho-Oh)

Ferrothorn (Heatran, Arcanine)

Houndoom-Mega (Zoroark, Mega Charizard Y, Ninetales)

Bisharp (Aerodactyl-Mega, Lucario-mega, Yveltal)

B- rank

Empoleon (Kyogre-Primal)

Gothitelle (Gothitelle)

Celebi (Sigilyph, Breloom)

Blastoise-Mega (Kyogre)

Starmie (Kyogre-Primal)

Scizor-Mega(Klingklang)

Aegislash (Xatu, Aegislash, Mega Sableye)

Registeel (Xatu, Solrock, Arcanine, Flygon)

 

[Lcass4919]

Lcass, Suicune is by far S-rank worthy. The unaware set walls almost every viable setup sweeper in inheritance, and is a major pain for offensive teams to deal with. Furthermore, setup sweepers that can't one-shot it are subject to haze. Suicune single-handedly makes the stall playstyle, and that's why it's S-rank and not likely to change.

fair enough.

 

[bp scrub]

Wait what does Pikachu give Metagross besides espeed?

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

Wait what does Pikachu give Metagross besides espeed?

Meteor Mash + Espeed with Tough Claws is pretty solid and Volt Tackle 2HKOs Suicune

 

[bp scrub]

Meteor Mash + Espeed with Tough Claws is pretty solid and Volt Tackle 2HKOs Suicune

Oh right duh, pikachu has multiple forms

 

[Da Random Bro]

Here is my team because why not. I am not great at teambuilding and I use some standard sets, but I've won some battles with this squad, so here you go:

Shady (Umbreon) (M) @ Toxic Orb -- from Gliscor
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

A great special wall and lead, Umbreon can set up rocks easily and statuses enemies or knocks off items easily too. Poison Heal gives it great passive recovery.

America (Blissey) @ Leftovers -- from Furfrou
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Def / 248 SpD
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Cotton Guard
- Protect
- Hyper Voice

The Blob has gotten fatter! Setting up Cotton Guard makes it even more long-lasting and allows it to stand up to any attacker, and Hyper Voice is so Blissey is not walled (except by ghost types, but Dark Pulse is pitiful). This set is the one I am most unsure about, and I kind of want to fit T-Wave over Hyper Voice, but Paralysis is less useful for this team than Toxic in my opinion.

Savage (Pinsir-Mega) (M) @ Pinsirite -- from Lucario
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Swords Dance

Standard Lucario --> Pinsir set.

Da Random Bro (Porygon-Z) @ Life Orb -- from Swellow
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Boomburst
- Heat Wave
- Air Slash
- Agility

Scrappy Boomburst. 'Nuff said.

Skull Kid (Marowak) (M) @ Thick Club -- from Kecleon
Ability: Protean
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

The attack is too high, and getting STAB on everything is great. However, it is largely walled by fairies, which brings me to...

Ultraviolet (Gengar) (F) @ Life Orb -- from Nidoking
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

Even though this isn't much of a set change for Gengar, Sheer Force + Life Orb boosts on everything coupled with better Coverage in Flamethrower allows this thing to hit everything for great damage.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[bp scrub]

America (Blissey) @ Leftovers -- from Furfrou
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Def / 248 SpD
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Cotton Guard
- Protect
- Hyper Voice

No recovery on one of the best walls in the game seems like a waste. I heard that Magic Bounce Chansey is pretty good - inherited from Mega Sableye i think?

 

[Talpr0ne]

Meteor Mash + Espeed with Tough Claws is pretty solid and Volt Tackle 2HKOs Suicune

Which also is an illegal combination.

 

[Jajoken]

Here is my team because why not. I am not great at teambuilding and I use some standard sets, but I've won some battles with this squad, so here you go:

Shady (Umbreon) (M) @ Toxic Orb -- from Gliscor
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

A great special wall and lead, Umbreon can set up rocks easily and statuses enemies or knocks off items easily too. Poison Heal gives it great passive recovery.

America (Blissey) @ Leftovers -- from Furfrou
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Def / 248 SpD
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Cotton Guard
- Protect
- Hyper Voice

The Blob has gotten fatter! Setting up Cotton Guard makes it even more long-lasting and allows it to stand up to any attacker, and Hyper Voice is so Blissey is not walled (except by ghost types, but Dark Pulse is pitiful). This set is the one I am most unsure about, and I kind of want to fit T-Wave over Hyper Voice, but Paralysis is less useful for this team than Toxic in my opinion.

Savage (Pinsir-Mega) (M) @ Pinsirite -- from Lucario
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Swords Dance

Standard Lucario --> Pinsir set.

Da Random Bro (Porygon-Z) @ Life Orb -- from Swellow
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Boomburst
- Heat Wave
- Air Slash
- Agility

Scrappy Boomburst. 'Nuff said.

Skull Kid (Marowak) (M) @ Thick Club -- from Kecleon
Ability: Protean
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

The attack is too high, and getting STAB on everything is great. However, it is largely walled by fairies, which brings me to...

Ultraviolet (Gengar) (F) @ Life Orb -- from Nidoking
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

Even though this isn't much of a set change for Gengar, Sheer Force + Life Orb boosts on everything coupled with better Coverage in Flamethrower allows this thing to hit everything for great damage.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

If you're going to use Pinsir, I'd recommend some hazard removal. Right now, you need to count on it only coming in once to sweep late game, but sometimes some early revenge killing is appreciated before you begin the sweep. I'd honestly recommend replacing Blissey entirely -- Fur Coat isn't very good on dedicated walls and any Steel type can freely set up due to Hyper Voice + Toxic doing nothing to it. You're also weak to enemy E-speed. This is an amusing Doublade set that I tried last OMotM that would solve both problems:

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Shadow Force
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Pain Split

I haven't tested it in the new ladder but Doublade has very good defensive synergy with your Umbreon (I used it with Unaware Umbreon).

Otherwise, Modest would work over Timid on that Porygon set considering you're using Agility. Air Slash should probably be dropped from Roost/Hidden Power [???] if inheriting from Swellow -- Fire/Flying is repetitive coverage and un-STAB Air Slash won't really cut it. Shadow Sneak is usually preferred on Marowak over Ice Punch because Fake Out + Shadow Sneak KOs most sashed leads trying to set up hazards. I also rarely see Pinsir actually use Ice Punch, but I don't use it myself so maybe someone can say why its on the standard set.

EDIT: Swellow also gets Tailwind which is a less permanent more but team-useful option.