1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Quality Control Landorus-T (2/3) [Check pls]

Discussion in 'Doubles Analyses' started by Metal Sonic, Feb 8, 2014.

  1. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,612
    [​IMG]
    is dog

    Overview
    ########
    Landorus-T is one of the prime Intimidate users in Doubles. With its sky high attack, Landorus-T hits very hard especially with its STAB spread move Earthquake. Landorus-T has access to good offensive typing and coverage, with powerful spread moves in Rock Slide and STAB Earthquake dealing major damage to all the opponents on the field, while access to U-turn and Knock Off grants it greater utility and provides great coverage as well. Furthermore, a great defensive typing, with only weaknesses to Water and Ice but resists so much more in Fighting, Bug, and Poison while having two great immunities in Electric and Ground. Thanks to its well-rounded stats, Landorus is versatile and is very easy to fit onto teams. However, Landorus-T is a little bit soft on the special side, so he has trouble switching into neutral special attacks.

    Choice Scarf
    ########
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: U-turn
    move 3: Stone Edge / Rock Slide
    move 4: Superpower / Explosion / Knock Off
    ability: Intimidate
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe
    nature: Adamant


    Moves
    ========
    Earthquake is the mandatory STAB move that also deals powerful spread damage onto the opponent. U-turn is great for throwing in an Intimidate onto the opponents then getting out of the battle fast. Stone Edge can be used as a concentrated Rock-type attack to deal more damage to a single target as compared to Rock Slide, while Rock Slide is a cool spread coverage move with a nice flinch rate. Explosion is to be used in a pinch to sacrifice Landorus-T and let it deal major damage to all opponents at the start of the turn, and also provides momentum to make certain plays. Knock Off cripples the opponent by removing their item, and also covering Ghost-types. Superpower is a final coverage move that allows Landorus-T to hit Dark- and Normal-types.

    Set Details
    ========
    Choice Scarf boosts Landorus-T's speed greatly, but locks it to a move. The Speed EVs are to allow Landorus-T to outspeed Timid Shaymin-S.Intimidate cripples the opponents and gives Landorus-T and its partner quite a bit of cushioning to survive more turns. Adamant is used for maximum power but Jolly can be used to outrun Timid base 90 Speed opponents that hold a Choice Scarf.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Most of the time, Landorus-T will be hitting and running with Intimidate; reducing their Attack to disrupt the opponent's strategy. Landorus-T can function as a powerful late-game cleaner, but many Pokemon in Doubles are immune to Earthquake so be hesitant to use it early game. Landorus-T acts as a great revenge killer to faster threats such as Charizard, Kanghaskhan, Jirachi, Heatran, Excadrill and more. Use explosion to lure and deal a lot of damage to Landorus-T's checks such as Rotom-W and Keldeo, but DON'T SPAM EXPLOSION EARLY GAME! Wait until the time is right and when Landorus-T can't do much with its other attacks.

    Team Options
    ========
    Hitmontop and Aegislash, are recommended as they have Wide Guard which protects them from Landorus-T's devastating Earthquakes, yet are amazing teammates. Hitmontop also has Intimidate to completely neutralize the opponent's physical attackers, while Aegislash has great type synergy with Landorus-T, resisting Ice for Landorus-T while Landorus-T handles the Ground-type attacks aimed at it. Flying-types and Levitate users are appropriate teammates to tolerate Landorus-T's Wide Guard spam, notable partners include Rotom-W and Mega Pinsir. Ghost-type partners are also useful as they are immune to Explosion; Aegislash receives a special mention as it fulfills the above role as well. Hitmontop and Mega Pinsir are great Feint users to counter opposing Wide Guard users, because Choice Scarf Landorus-T is hampered by Wide Guard spam. Mega Pinsir also has the advantage of being immune to Landorus-T's Earthquakes. Bulky Water-types cover its weaknesses. Azumarill is great at KOing the Intimidate Pokemon that check Landorus-T such as other Landorus-T, Hitmontop, and Scrafty. Suicune can take many hits while supporting Landorus-T with Tailwind, Icy Wind, or Snarl. Rotom-W deserves a special mention since it resists Water / Ice and is aslo immune to Landorus-T's Earthquakes. MANY Pokemon appreciate the removal of Steel-types; Fairy-types like Mega Gardevoir and Sylveon, Steel-types such as Scizor and Mega Mawile, Grass-types such as Amoonguss and Venusaur, Dragon-types such as Kyurem-B and Salamence all like having Landorus-T as a partner.

    Physical Attacker
    ########
    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Stone Edge / Rock Slide
    move 3: U-turn / Knock Off
    move 4: Protect
    ability: Intimidate
    item: Leftovers / Yache Berry
    evs: 184 HP / 236 Atk / 88 Spe
    nature: Adamant

    Moves
    ========
    Earthquake is a strong STAB spread move that is can deal major damage to both opponents on the field. However, it also hurts the Landorus-T's partner as well so care must be taken to mitigate this. Stone Edge is a concentrated Rock-type coverage move that can OHKO Thundurus without bulk investment. Rock Slide is a good spread move that has nice coverage with Earthquake and can also achieve a timely flinch on the opponents. U-turn is good for Landorus-T to escape from the field when there is a bad matchup. Knock Off is good Dark-type coverage and can also neutralize the opponent's item. Protect is useful for scouting moves, stalling out field conditions, or to survive a turn when it is predicted that the opponents will viciously attack Landorus-T.

    Set Details
    ========
    Leftovers is to grant Landorus-T greater longevity so that it can Intimidate opponents more often over the course of the match. Yache Berry is for Landorus-T to take down the common Electric-types in the tier that rely only on Hidden Power Ice to attack Ground-types, a prominent example is Mega Manectric. Sitrus Berry is a last option to allow Landorus-T to survive more hits and thus have more turns to deal damage. However, it is generally outclassed by Leftovers for something that is trying to live for a long time. Intimidate helps neutralise both physical attackers on the opponent's field and give your teammates greater leeway and reduce damage taken.

    This Landorus-T set uses extremely tailored EVs in order to perform at its optimum ability in Doubles. 88 Speed EVs allow Landorus-T to outspeed and OHKO 252 Speed Bisharp. 184 HP EVs allow Landorus-T to survive an Adamant +1 Life Orb Bisharp's Sucker Punch, Modest Mega Charizard Y's Heat Wave, Neutral natured Thundurus's Hidden Power Ice, -1 Mega Kanghaskhan's Fake Out and Double Edge combination, and Adamant -1 Conkeldurr's Ice Punch and Mach Punch combination. The remaining EVs are put into Attack to deal as much damage as possible, and it is to be reiterated that Adamant Landorus-T can OHKO Bisharp and Thundurus with the appropriate move.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    As Landorus-T functions as a great check to physical attackers thanks to its ability Intimidate, take opportunity to switch in on physical attacking opponents in order to cushion both Landorus-T and the partner from their onslaught. However, in the early game, opposing Intimidate users will be switching in to check Landorus-T's attacks as well, so usually U-turn should be used until these threats have been eliminated. Landorus-T can function well both defensively and offensively thanks to its high Attack as well, so it can be used to putting a lot of offensive pressure on opponents with powerful spread Earthquakes or Rock Slides. Against a threatening opponent with Water- or Ice-type coverage, Landorus-T should switch out into a teammate with a more favorable matchup so that its Intimidate ability can be preserved.

    Team Options
    ========
    Flying-type and Levitate partners should be used to avoid the dangerous Earthquakes that Landorus-T uses. Togekiss, Cresselia and Thundurus are good examples that fulfill this criteria. Cresselia deserves a special mention for having a great support movepool, with Helping Hand to support Landorus-T, Trick Room to counter opponents' Trick Room, and Icy Wind to lower concerns about speed. Jirachi is awesome, as it can use Follow Me to deter burns and Ice type moves from striking Landorus-T, but it is weak to its teammate's Earthquake. Bulky Water-types cover Landorus-T's weaknesses. Azumarill is great at KOing the Intimidate Pokemon that check Landorus-T such as other Landorus, Hitmontop, and Scrafty. Suicune can take many hits while supporting Landorus-T with Tailwind, Icy Wind, or Snarl. MANY Pokemon appreciate the removal of Steel-types; Fairy-types like Mega Gardevoir and Sylveon, Steel-types such as Scizor and Mega Mawile, Grass-types such as Amoonguss and Venusaur, and Dragon-types such as Kyurem-B and Salamence all like having Landorus-T as a partner

    Other Options
    ########
    A Choice Band set is viable, but very uncommon as Landorus-T has a lack of speed to carry out this role at its full potential. Hidden Power Ice is an option to kill other Landorus-T.

    On the Physical Attacker set, many other options are available. Assault Vest is great to cushion Landorus-T from special attacks, and works well with Intimidate covering physical attackers. However, Landorus-T has to forego Protect to use it. Substitute can be used to ease prediction, protect Landorus-T from status effects and Intimidate, and to act as a cushion against faster checks. Swords Dance or Rock Polish can be used to boost Landorus-T's stats to terrifying levels and sweep the opponent. Stealth Rock is great to check opposing Pokemon such as Charizard, Mega Pinsir and Talonflame, but it has less utility in Doubles as compared to Singles. Imprison can be interesting to prevent the opponent's usage of the same moves as Landorus-T, for example the common Protect, Earthquake and Rock Slide. Gravity is another interesting option to cripple the opponent's Flying-types and also reduce the evasion of all Pokemon on the field.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Offensive Typing Advantage**: Despite Landorus-T's great coverage and high attack, some bulky opponents with Ice-type coverage and resist Earthquake can put a dent in Landorus-T's health. Cresselia functions as a dangerous check with its massive bulk being able to take multiple attacks and can retaliate with Icy Wind, which has the added effect of lowering the speed of the Pokemon on your side of the field. Azumarill also has super effective priority or it can take a hit and Waterfall. Rotom-W is a major counter to Landorus-T, as it has immunity to Earthquake and is not weak to Rock-type attacks, yet can easily defeat Landorus-T with a Hydro Pump. Politoed KOs Landorus-T with Scald and provides rain which allows Ludicolo and Kingdra to dunk Landorus-T

    **Speed**: Faster Pokemon with an Ice-type attack will be able to defeat Landorus-T. These checks include but are not limited to Deoxys-A, Scarf Genesect, Kingdra and Ludicolo in Rain, and Ice Shard users such as Mamoswine and Weavile. Take note that Shaymin-S and Deoxys-A can also OHKO with their STABs, after some prior damage has been inflicted onto Landorus-T.

    **Speed Control**: Landorus-T dislikes Trick Room, especially the Choice Scarf set, so its partners should try its best to neutralise any Trick Room setters to allow Landorus-T to function at its best. Tailwind teams also fulfill the same effect.

    **Utility Moves**: Due to the large amount of usage of spread moves, Landorus-T's strategy is foiled by users of Wide Guard, especially Hitmontop which also has Intimidate to cripple Landorus-T. Shuca Berry or Air Balloon Heatran can also OHKO Landorus-T easily with Hidden Power Ice, yet are able to withstand Earthquakes due to their item. Fake Out is also a threat to Landorus-T, as it immobilizes Scarf Landorus-T and renders it vulnerable to another foe's powerful attack.

    **Intimidate and burn**: Burns and Intimidate also reduce the overall effectiveness and damage output of Landorus-T, so care should be taken to prevent these effects from happening onto it. These include Rotom-W and Gourgeist for burns, while opposing Landorus-T or Scrafty are common Intimidate users.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
  2. youngjake93

    youngjake93

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,548
    Imo scarf should be the first set and Stone Edge>Explosion>Knock Off>Superpower for 4th move.
    I know plenty of things to use Stone Edge on to score the ohko, but Superpower is kind of just fluff coverage.
  3. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,612
    implemented your suggestions.

    not sure about explosion so i didnt put that
  4. Laga

    Laga Thank u based danish pastry
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    901
    explosion slash in second slot - rock slide is not a must and explosion is amazing

    uturn in second slot and rock slide / explosion in third slot

    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: U-turn
    move 3: Rock Slide / Explosion
    move 4: Stone Edge / Knock Off / Superpower
    ability: Intimidate
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
    nature: Adamant / Jolly

    yeah that is a nice looking scarf set.
    youngjake93 and Metal Sonic like this.
  5. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,612
    implemented
  6. Lolk

    Lolk the cold never bothered me anyway
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,194
    I don't think Rock Slide and Stone Edge should ever be on the same set. Maybe something like this is better?

    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: U-turn
    move 3: Rock Slide / Stone Edge
    move 4: Knock Off / Explosion / Superpower
    ability: Intimidate
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
  7. youngjake93

    youngjake93

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,548
    Idk I've liked using both on the same set, but I haven't really played around with Knock Off too much yet to comment on it being a main move. Rock Slide and Stone Edge do really different things in practice even though they're both Rock type moves.

    Anyway... Should the scarf set be dropped down to outspeeding Mega-Gengar or Skymin or stay at max? Landog reeeally appreciates hp investment to sponge physical hits and outspeeding Skymin with U-Turn seems like the most crucial mark to hit.
    I don't think hitting an opposing scarf Landog with -1 anything before it moves is that beneficial to give up free bulk.
  8. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer @ Audiosurfite
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,649
    hittin base 130 is the benchmark scarf should be aiming for. also physical attacker should be the first set listed w/ scarf coming after it. a physical attacker set is the one that's more generally applicable to teams, w/ scarf bein for if you need the speed, but it isnt really the default set to go to or anything. also for physical, items should be focus sash, then yache berry, w/ sitrus gettin a mention in set details
  9. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,612
    wow I'm getting conflicting replies from you QC members. could we have a consensus?

    Audiosurfer Lolkomori Laga

    PS: welcome back audio <3
  10. Laga

    Laga Thank u based danish pastry
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    901
    Asurf is right with the set order and physical attacker items; regular attacker first, scarf second

    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: U-turn
    move 3: Rock Slide / Stone Edge
    move 4: Explosion / Knock Off / Superpower
    ability: Intimidate
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
    nature: Adamant

    spread allows outspeeding timid skymin after scarf boost

    set seems like what everyone wants

    if any QC members have any problems with this set (shouldn't be any concerns left by now), then contact through irc / pm or post here =]
    youngjake93 likes this.
  11. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,612
  12. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer @ Audiosurfite
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,649
    ok, yeah that looks fine. only thing i say is stone edge > rock slide on scarf. having more power and getting around wide guard is more important for a scarfer than the spread damage imo. some other things that i saw:
    • other options is lookin sparse. following things need to be added: substitute, gravity, sd, imprison
    • no mention of somethin like rotom-w in c&c?
    • "Good partners that counter many Trick Room users include Aegislash and Gengar." <---- these mons check trick roomers, they dont counter em (and just remove Gengar mention in general since it isn't too great)
    • remove mention of sand in team options for physical attacker. landorus-t doesnt benefit from sand at all particularly so no point in including it (unless every steel or ground type will have it mentioned which is dumb really)
    • slash adamant behind jolly and stone edge behind (or in front of, depending on what other QC think) rock slide for the physical attacker set.
    • "Thundurus-T gets a special mention to perform the Landorus-Thundurus combo, where Thundurus can spam Discharge while Landorus spams Earthquake to inflict powerful spread moves onto the opponent. However, they are susceptible to faster Blizzard users." <---- remove this. disquake has never been that good, and has not been popular outside of the lower rungs of the ladder for some time. definitely not a combination to be suggested so people go around thinking this combination is good.
    • add mention of burns to c&c
    • please implement my item suggestion for the physical attacker set from earlier
    Metal Sonic likes this.
  13. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,612
  14. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer @ Audiosurfite
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,649
    ok, when doing the suggestions I gave for Other options, just give each one its own line. They're individual sets and should be grouped seperately, not in a huge paragraph. also for the team options for physical attacker, you should add how anything that's threatened by physical attackers could enjoy having it check them. also for scarf say in usage tips how it can also make a good late-game cleaner. otherwise looks fine for now, I'll give you the first stamp to get you started.
    QC 1/3
    Metal Sonic likes this.
  15. Lolk

    Lolk the cold never bothered me anyway
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,194
    Overview:
    • is immune to Ground :o
    • mention how versatile it is with its well-rounded stats.
    • It is also very easy to fit into teams
    All Out Attacker Set:
    • Put Yache in front of focus sash imo. With intimidate and its decent bulk, really only Water-, Ice-, and freaky offensive sweepers can OHKO it. I would personally prefer LO > Focus Sash with focus sash in Set comments but do whatcha want.
    Set Details:
    • Mention what Adamant is slashed for
    • add life orb here if you dont put it in the set
    Usage Tips:
    • Add Water-types to that schmaz about Ice-types.
    • Talk about how Landoge puts a lot of Offensive pressure on the opponents with its STAB spread coverage.
    • Mention early game that it attracts intimidate pokemon like flies so U-turning a lot is what usually happens.
    Team Options:
    • Bulky Water-types cover its weaknesses. Azumarill is great at KOing the Intimidate Pokemon that check Landoge such as other Landoge, Hitmontop, and Scrafty. Suicune can take many hits while supporting Landorus-T with Tailwind, Icy Wind, or Snarl.
    • MANY Pokemon appreciate the removal of Steel-types; Fairy-types like Mega Gardevoir and Sylveon, Steel-types such as Scizor and Mega Mawile, and Grass-types such as Amoonguss and Venusaur all like having Landoge as a partner
    Choice Scarf set:

    Usage Tips:

    • Scarf is a surprising set so don't expose the scarf until it gets a surprise KO.
    • Many Pokemon in doubles are immune to Earthquake so be hesitant to use it early game.
    • Use explosion to lure and deal a lot of damage to Landoge's checks such as Rotom-W and Keldeo.
    • DON'T SPAM EXPLOSION EARLY GAME! Wait until the time is right and Landoge cant do much with its other attacks.
    Team Options:
    • Mention Hitmontop and Mega Pinsir as Feint users because Scarf Landoge is rekt by Wide Guard spam.
    • add the same stuff about water types and steel killing that i said in the first set, but without the speed control.
    • Ghost-type partner is immune to Explosion
    Other Options:
    • Ass Vest is doable :O
    • More defensive sets
    • Stealth Rock to check Talonflame and Mega Pinsir and stuff
    Checks & Counters
    • Ice Shard users such as Mamoswine and Weavile
    • Azumarill also has super effective priority or it can take a hit and Waterfall.
    • When you mention Kingdra, say it needs to be in the rain to outspeed and Muddy Water does just as much.
    • Also specify that Ludicolo only outspeeds in the rain.
    • Also under speed, mention stuff like Skymin and Deoxys-A that can KO with their STABs with only a little prior damage in skymins case.
    • Tailwind teams also dont worry too much about Landoge.
    • MENTION ROTOM-W cause like every set beats landoge
    • List specific burn and intimidate mons
    • Shuca Heatran lures it in and Landoge cant kill Air Balloon Heatran.
    Do these and I will stamp Metal Sonic
    Metal Sonic likes this.
  16. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,612
  17. Lolk

    Lolk the cold never bothered me anyway
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,194
    Add dragon-type partners to sweepers that want steel-types gone and QC 2/3
  18. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,612
    the above has been implemented.
  19. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    815
    Small nitpick with the writeup. In the first three sentences, you are quite repetitive by saying Landorus-T three times. Maybe change the second one to "it" instead.
  20. Pwnemon

    Pwnemon judges silently
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Doubles Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    3,409
    Superpower should be slashed in front of boom and knock off on the scarf set for two pokemon: kangaskhan and tyranitar. Being able to hit those and also hit mons like tran without hitting your partner is invaluable. Explosion is more situational and knock off even more so. I'd also probably slash rock slide on there in front of knock off but thats major slashitis. Maybe drop knock off idk, being locked into thats a little shitty
    Why the hell is the phys attacker set running full speed? And yache and sash? Phys attacker should be a bulky set. I havent the time to look right now but im probably going to rewrite that entire set when i get home
  21. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,612
    i have added superpower to the front Pwnemon
  22. Pwnemon

    Pwnemon judges silently
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Doubles Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    3,409
    k i know im late but i finally have that spread I told you about

    Landorus-T @ Leftovers / Yache Berry
    Adamant
    Intimidate
    184 HP / 236 Atk / 88 Spe
    -EQ
    -Stone Edge
    -U-turn / Knock Off
    -Protect

    The EVs:
    -Outspeed 252 bisharp
    -Live 252+ +1 LO Bisharp sucker, 252+ zard heat wave, 252 unboosted thundurus hp ice, 252+ -1 kang fo + dedge, and 252+ -1 conk ice punch + mach punch
    -OHKO 4/0 Thundurus with Stone Edge, OHKO 4/0 Bisharp with EQ

    The item is typically leftovers to allow you to intimidate every, however if you want to be able to stay in fearlessly on hp ice using electrics and give them a good fisting, you should run yache berry instead.

    this drastic change will probably necessitate a full first set rewrite (sorry), but really i don't fcking know why nobody on qc told you to change the set yet, remind me to vag punch Lolk and Audiosurfer
    Metal Sonic likes this.
  23. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer @ Audiosurfite
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,649
    it helps when the spread you're using doesn't exist while the one currently listed was actually a thing. if you want that spread to be used, you'll need some more reasons than that (especially when the current set is capable of doing all of this w/ a sash). When you only outspeed up to like neutral base 70s, you're not going to be as effective an attacker, and while Sash can be broken, I assume a bit of prior damage throws your calcs off anyways so it's not a huge deal (Lando cant even have sash broken by weather since it is immune to Sand and Hail is nonexistent).
    Metal Sonic likes this.
  24. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,612
    Audiosurfer Pwnemon

    what should i do? you guys are qc members and give conflicting views.
  25. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer @ Audiosurfite
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,649
    after discussing we decided to just go w/ pwne's spread. also put scarf first instead of the attacker set, it's far more common and influential

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)