Latios (Revamp) [QC 2/3]

[Valmanway]

Overview
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Pros:
-Tied with Latias as the fastest relevant Dragon-type in OU
-Has sizable Special Attack, as well as a great Speed tier
-One of the best offensive Defoggers in OU
-Has a fairly wide movepool, including Draco Meteor for revenge killing and Psyshock to get past special walls
-Has 6 resistances and good defenses for switching in when needed

Cons:
-Has 6 weaknesses, including common Dark, Ice, and Fairy weaknesses
-Vulnerable to Sucker Punch, Ice Shard, and Talonflame's Brave Bird
-Some commonly seen Pokemon are able to outspeed and threaten him, such as Greninja and Thundurus

SET NAME
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name: Life Orb
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Psyshock
move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Thunderbolt / Surf
move 4: Defog / Roost
ability: Levitate
item: Life Orb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 29 HP
nature: Timid

Moves
========

-Draco Meteor is Latios' strongest move, and lets him finish off sturdier foes that would otherwise live any other attack
-Psyshock allows Latios to threaten special walls without having to rely on Draco Meteor by hitting their weaker Defense, but you can use Psychic instead of special walls are of no concern to you
-The third move is a tossup; Hidden Power Fire hits Scizor and Ferrothron for at worst a 2HKO, Thunderbolt punishes Azumarill, Skarmory, and Mega Gyarados for directly switching in, and Surf threatens Heatran, Excadrill, Gliscor, Landorus, and Mamoswine
-The fourth move is also a tossup, as Defog provides invaluable team support in removing hazards, while Roost refills your health after repeated Life Orb recoil and entry hazard damage

Set Details
========

-The EV spread is straightforward, maxing out Special Attack and Speed for maximum sweeping potential, and adding the remainong EVs into Defense for minutely better bulk
-A Timid nature is used to avoid getting outsped by opposing base 110s, namely Gengar, Latias, and opposing Latios
-A Life Orb is the best item to use for this set, as it allows Latios to hit as hard as possible without being locked into a move
-29 HP IVs are to ensure that you can use Life Orb powered attacks a maximum of 10 times without dying

Usage Tips
========

-Latios works well as a late game cleaner, taking out weakened or crippled foes with relative ease, though also works as a revenge killer thanks to Draco Meteor's immediate power
-Don't rely too much on Draco Meteor, as there are many threats that can shrug off a hit from a -2 Latios

Team Options
========

-Keldeo works as a great partner, as it threatens the special walls and Dark-types that give Latios a hard time
-Mega Scizor can take physical hits very well and threaten Tyranitar and Bisharp with Superpower
-Terrakion provides decent synergy with Latios, since Terrakion handles Ferrothorn, Bisharp, Tyranitar, and Heatran nicely, while Latios handles Keldeo, Skarmory, and Gliscor

SET NAME
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name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Psyshock
move 3: Defog / Hidden Power Fire / Surf
move 4: Trick
ability: Levitate
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

-Draco Meteor is the key to this set's success, as it makes for an amazing revenge killing tool
-Psyshock allows Latios to slip past special walls that would take a Draco Meteor, though Psychic is a stronger attack to use for when you already have a lot of support to threaten physically defensive walls
-The choice between Defog, Hidden Power Fire, and Surf really boils down to your preference; Defog is still worth an option to remove hazards in a pinch, and can be used more reliably after Tricking someone your Choice item, Hidden Power Fire deals with Ferrothorn and (Mega) Scizor, while Surf deals with Heatran, as well as threaten Scarf Tyranitar after Stealth Rock damage and some prior damage
-Trick allows Latios to cripple a wall that he otherwise can't 2HKO, not only by taking their item, but also by limiting their actions to one move

Set Details
========

-252 Special Attack EVs are for maximum damage output, and 252 Speed EVs are for outrunning as many foes as possible, while the remaining EVs are put into HP for a little extra bulk
-A Timid nature allows Latios to speed tie at worst with Gengar, Latias, and opposing Latios
-A Choice Scarf works both as a great way for Latios to revenge kill more easily and as a way to cripple walls, thus making it the best item to use on this set

Usage Tips
========

-This set is capable of crippling any wall that can avoid a 2HKO from Latios, so you should prioritize saving Trick for them, though you can also use this strategy on a setup sweeper or a Pokemon that won't outrun much even with a Scarf

Team Options
========

-Physical attackers such as Terrakion and Bisharp help greatly, as they power their way through special walls that would like to sponge the special attacks that Latios will lock himself into
-A Pokemon that can clear hazards would greatly help, such as Excadrill and Mew, since Latios is likely going to be switching frequently to revenge kill foes

Other Options
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-Earthquake can be used with a Naive nature to guarantee the OHKO on Heatran, but has little use elsewhere, and Surfcan 2HKO Heatran anyways, and isn't effected by Air Balloon variants
-If you don't want Draco Meteor to cut your power in half and force you to switch out, then Dragon Pulse can be used, but Latios won't have the immediate power that Draco Meteor provides
-Hidden Power Fighting can be used to OHKO Bisharp and 2HKO Tyranitar, and also his both Heatran and Ferrothorn hard when Surf or Hidden Power Fire would only hit one of them very hard, so it's basically the in-between of Surf and Hidden Power Fire
-A Choice Specs can be used for increased damage output, as well as retaining the ability to cripple walls, but can also cripple physical attackers more efficiently than a Choice Scarf, though the ability to force your opponent to revenge kill or use priority is only available when using a Choice Scarf

Checks & Counters
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-Bisharp is a great check to Latios, as Sucker Punch is guaranteed to OHKO, and also has Defiant to punish a Defog
-Tyranitar can tank any attack and cleanly OHKO with Crunch, or can use Pursuit as Latios switches out
-Greninja easily revenge kills Latios, as he outspeeds and can OHKO with Ice Beam
-Thundurus is capable of outspeeding Latios and can revenge kill with Knock Off or use Prankster Thunder Wave to take away his great Speed
-If Latios lacks Surf, then Specially Defensive Gliscor is a great check, since he can take a Draco Meteor and then regain health with Poison Heal, and while using Trick with the Choice set can cripple Gliscor, it also means Latios will be inflicted with Toxic

 

[Valentine]

condense specs and scarf into a 'choiced' set. list the choiced set after the most common set, which should probably be:

move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Psyshock
move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Thunderbolt
move 4: Defog / Roost
item: Life Orb

mention psychic over psyshock in the moves section, i've been running that a lot recently and it's great. hidden power fighting and earthquake are always options in the third slot, but are more fit for the moves section. defog+roost is done better by latias, so non choiced latios should generally have one or the other.

 

[Jukain]

i like surf. i think the ko on lando without drops, doing a lot of damage to tar, smashing exca, and doing a large chunk to tran combined make it useful. moves is probably fine, but be sure to mention it. i agree with a condensed choice set. i'm not really a specs fan, but scarf is pretty damn cool to outspeed dders/greninja and the like plus some swift swimmers even and every other scarfer basically. plus you can trick chansey a scarf and cripple it. prolly would have scarf slashed first, trick has to be mandatory because that's one of the big allures of choiced latios.

 

[alexwolf]

Just saying, but we have stopped merging choice sets for a long time. Specs and Scarf play different roles on a team, need different teammates, etc, so either give them two separate sets or mention Specs in OO.

 

[Valmanway]

Just saying, but we have stopped merging choice sets for a long time. Specs and Scarf play different roles on a team, need different teammates, etc, so either give them two separate sets or mention Specs in OO.

Didn't know that. I'll change that now.

 

[trc]

get rid of specs entirely (ie: put it in OO); keep scarf.

 

[Jukain]

please deslash dragon pulse and psychic. both are okay (psychic's really cool) but are generally inferior to the options listed so should just go in moves. also, if you wanna slash surf put it last, as hp fire and tbolt are generally better.

the scarf set should have: draco, psyshock, hp fire/tbolt, trick.

 

[Ptyra]

I'll say what I said on Latias's analysis : I think Thunderbolt should be the first slash.

HP Fire makes you loose speed tie with Gengar, Latias and opposing Latios.
Mega Mawile is OHKOed by HP Fire, that's very good, but Mega Mawile is going to be banned soon.
So HP Fire allows to beat Ferrothorn, (Mega) Scizor and Skarmory.

In comparaison, Thunderbolt allows to OHKO Skarmory (but it needs prior damages because of Sturdy, HP Fire 2HKOs), beat Mandibuzz, Slowbro and Azumarill (on the switch) and RK BD Azumarill at +6.
In 1v1 scenario, Draco Meteor doesn't beat Slowbro if it uses Slack Off and is not weakened.

Surf is a good option too. I don't know if it merits to be slashed before HP Fire.

 

[Prinz]

after seeing tox using a set of calm mind / draco meteor / roost / psyshock with life orb on ladder during aegislash suspect, i guess it deserves a mention in OO. it's a powerful stall-breaker (+1 draco meteor + life orb does a ton of damages on pretty everything) and now that aegislash is gone, i think that it's an okay set.

 

[Bhunivelze]

Here's my opinion of what you have so far:

Moveset 1:

Name: Life Orb Latios
Move: Draco Meteor
Move: Psyshock
Move: Hidden Power Fire / Thunderbolt /Surf
Move: Defog / Roost

Life Orb + Latios has great offensive presence, since it can deal with harmful threats right away. Life Orb giving Latios a x1.3 boost to his attack -- sometimes a necessary item to assist the SpA drop from Draco Meteor.
Move 1: Draco Meteor a great STAB move for Latios. Great to use in case a teammate can't get the job done.
Move 2: Psyshock is great against Fighting and Poison-types, who run Knock Off or Toxic/Sludge Bomb or Wave.
Move 3: Hidden Power Fire is a great counter against Bisharp, but this should be on the third slash to be honest. Hidden Power Fire is a sure fire way to surprise your opponent, but will it be useful in the long run? It's questionable. I definitely recommend it to an extent, considering Pursuit can deal a lot of damage to Latios. Surf is good to get rid or deal damage to Tyranitar, Heatran, Excadrill, and Landorus. I suggest this move for the second slash. My top recommendation for the first slash is Thunderbolt, why? Well it has a lot usefulness, you see. With Thunderbolt, you can deal great damage to Talonflame, Greninja, Skarmory, Azumarill, and Mandibuzz. A big problem with choosing another move over Thunderbolt is the following: Steel-types and Mandibuzz (Dark-types) will tank attacks from Latios (they resist dragon moves and psychic moves won't KO them or do anything). Surf, which is great, can't deal against steel-types either. This is me not suggesting that Latios needs to be out facing steel-types now, but also what about fairy-types? Azumarill is a dangerous threat and when used right can take care of Latios, if Latios doesn't have Thunderbolt. The added benefit of Thunderbolt is that chance to paralyze, which can really make the difference between winning or losing the battle.
Move 4: Defog on Latios isn't that great idea -- the reasons are quite simple. Latios is more of the brute force, while Latias is the defensive force. Latios is mostly use to fire your opponent's Pokemon away (not that Latias isn't used in a similar way), but Latias fits the Defog role better than her brother. Roost is better in order to maintain Latios alive after recoil damage from Life Orb -- losing Latios in a team is very, very big. Which is why i oppose Defog as a move, but that's just my thoughts on it. Latios severely hurt or KO'd in battle for using Defog is not ideal.

Moveset 2:

Name: Choice Scarf
Move: Draco Meteor
Move: Psyshock
Move: Hidden Power Fire / Thunderbolt
Move: Trick

I've used Choice Scarf Latios once and it can be quite useful to bind your opponent in a late game situation, or whatever your preference is on using it. Move 1: Draco Meteor a great stab move as always. Move 2: Psyshock is useful to deal with pesky poison-types and fighting-types. Move 3: Hidden Power Fire can work, but the chances are quite minimal with this set. You have to utilize Hidden Power Fire in a very well manner (predicting), especially if its your last Pokemon against your opponent last Pokemon that can be Bisharp, Scizor, or Skarmory. There's a chance that you can win, but simply testing /calc is your friend to determine the damage that's possible. In Sunny Day, you can definitely win in a dire predicament against steel-types most likely. In a scenario without Sunny day, the chances are quite hard. But definitely a must try move -- it can work with practice. Thunderbolt would be rather more useful than Hidden Power Fire, since it gives Latios many checks against other types. Move 4: Trick is necessary for this set, so i won't comment!


Closing:

The EV's, choice items, and everything else is fine! Sorry for the long post! Anyways, good thread!

 

[MagikaripIsOP]

hp fire is for scizor, ferro, and mawile; hp fighting would be for bisharp

 

[Jukain]

hey Valmanway how's this going?

 

[Valmanway]

hey Valmanway how's this going?

Sorry for the delay on this. I'll have this done in just a few more days.

 

[Valmanway]

I think this is nearly finished. Any last touches that I should add, or anything important that I overlooked?

 

[Magcargo]

I think this is nearly finished. Any last touches that I should add, or anything important that I overlooked?

You have some errors on the analysis formatting. The C&C section should be last and the OO section should be second to last. You also seem to have two OO sections for some reason.

Add Dragon pulse and psychic to OO.

 

[Valmanway]

You have some errors on the analysis formatting. The C&C section should be last and the OO section should be second to last. You also seem to have two OO sections for some reason.

Add Dragon pulse and psychic to OO.

Fixed.

 

[trc]

Psychic shouldn't be in OO, it should be in moves.

 

[Valmanway]

Psychic shouldn't be in OO, it should be in moves.

Well Jukain said to deslash it in an earlier post, so I'm not sure how he'd feel about adding it back in now, but I can see the merits of using Psychic over Psyshock, mainly taking on Landorus-T, Hippowdon, Amoonguss, Mega Venusaur, and Clefable more reliably without having to finish off the former two with Draco Meteor. If Jukain is cool with it, then I'll definitely add it in.

 

[trc]

Don't slash it, just put it in Moves.

 

[Valmanway]

Don't slash it, just put it in Moves.

But aren't moves in the Moves section because they're the main or slashed moves in the set? I'm not really following.

 

[trc]

Underneath Moves you can mention alternate moves that can't fit on the main set but are worthy of a mention.

 

[Martin]

But aren't moves in the Moves section because they're the main or slashed moves in the set? I'm not really following.

the moves section also functions as an OO for more important, set-specific moves - not just as a means of explaining your current choice of slashes.

 

[horyzhnz]

overview should still be in bullet point form, set names are still just 'SET NAME', and set details should also describe reasons for using a certain nature (Timid to Speed tie with Gengar and other Latis) and reasons for using a certain item (more power, more speed, etc). also, i reckon spdf gliscor deserves a mention in c+c since latios can't really do much unless it runs surf; latios doesn't want to receive a toxic orb from trick and it can just roost on psyshock / draco meteor and easily wall a -2 latios.

 

[Valmanway]

Alright, this seems ready for QC now.

 

[Jukain]

4 def evs + 29 hp iv for life orb number

defog, hp fire, and surf are the options for slot 3 on scarf. defog if you still need it to remove hazards sort of a la scarfdrill, hp fire coverage on ferro etc, surf is mainly because

252 SpA Latios Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 132-156 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

so if you can force a little prior damage on scarftar (think a sr switch-in before), then you can actually beat it.