Yeah... I watched your testing.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Linked
- Thread starter Hack_Guy
- Start date
ScorrchingTheaph
nO u
What will happen:
Turn 1: Nasty Plot + Hyper Beam
Turn 2: Recharge
sorry if my wording wasnt clear. in general, just dont use recharging moves in a link (unless u have some kind of bad gimmick set)
thesecondbest
Just Kidding I'm First
Can we get proof of the aforementioned slaking?
Do you know what would be broken if two turn moves were allowed?
Sky Drop + Gravity Mew. At least in gen 5, (tested using a double battle) if gravity is used while a sky drop is in effect, it allows the sky dropper to act normally, and until it uses sky drop again, or switches out, the target of sky drop is grounded, but can't move.
And this is not exclusive to Smeargle, since Mew exists. Tbh, this makes 2 turn moves in a link stronger than protecting moves in a link.
Sky Drop + Gravity Mew. At least in gen 5, (tested using a double battle) if gravity is used while a sky drop is in effect, it allows the sky dropper to act normally, and until it uses sky drop again, or switches out, the target of sky drop is grounded, but can't move.
And this is not exclusive to Smeargle, since Mew exists. Tbh, this makes 2 turn moves in a link stronger than protecting moves in a link.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-240190798
Turn 1: if you use Hyper Beam as your first move, you can't use the second move AND you skip a turn.
Turn 6: Slaking moves every turn, but it can't use the second move.
Turn 1: if you use Hyper Beam as your first move, you can't use the second move AND you skip a turn.
Turn 6: Slaking moves every turn, but it can't use the second move.
Can we please ban Talonflame soon? We can't argue anymore since it's going in circle. i've seen no decision made besides Hack's initial decision. Here's what I believe are the strongest arguments for banning Talonflame.
It carries the strongest priority in the game by a foot and a half.
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 352-415 (103.2 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dark Aura Yveltal Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 289-342 (84.7 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 185-218 (54.2 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 204-240 (59.8 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As seen by the first calc. For you to live a banded parental bond Brave Bird without investing you need to have base 115 HP and base 115 defence, which is insane...
It doesn't care about your link
Why would it care? It has base 126 speed, meaning it's going to be outspeeding 99.9% of the metagame with its priority. Why would it care about your link when it'll outspeed and kill you? And yes, this can be said about other mons but none of them are this powerful, this fast and with such a powerful priority move. For god sakes, an uninvested Garchomp just dies. Victini, Manaphy, Gyarados, Serperior, Weavile, Lopunny and even Landours-Therian after rocks. That is insane, and those are A rank mons. Never mind the fact that you can get a ranking simply by being able to check this mon, or being steel type.
It has very few reliable, viable counters
Let me put this argument to rest. The only two counters that are viable to Talonflame is Heatran and Mega Slowbro. You might say Tyranitar or Garchomp and to that I say no. These mons lack the ability to reliably check Talonflame after they're burned. Garchomp can't really do anything to stallbreaker Talonflame regardless. But that's not always the problem, the fact that Talonflame has the strongest priority in the game it's not that it's not hard, though that is also an issue. It's fact that that this pokemon effectively neutralizes every fighting type, every bug type and every grass type. It doesn't matter how much they set up, how fast they become or how many attack boosts they have. Talonflame will kill them with a super effective priority move. But it's of course not only bug, grass and fight types. It's every pokemon with less than 115/115 defences. I am so eager to start team building without having to add unnecessary priority to my team or to carry a tyranitar on my trick room team.
It carries the strongest priority in the game by a foot and a half.
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 352-415 (103.2 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dark Aura Yveltal Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 289-342 (84.7 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Genesect Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 185-218 (54.2 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 204-240 (59.8 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As seen by the first calc. For you to live a banded parental bond Brave Bird without investing you need to have base 115 HP and base 115 defence, which is insane...
It doesn't care about your link
Why would it care? It has base 126 speed, meaning it's going to be outspeeding 99.9% of the metagame with its priority. Why would it care about your link when it'll outspeed and kill you? And yes, this can be said about other mons but none of them are this powerful, this fast and with such a powerful priority move. For god sakes, an uninvested Garchomp just dies. Victini, Manaphy, Gyarados, Serperior, Weavile, Lopunny and even Landours-Therian after rocks. That is insane, and those are A rank mons. Never mind the fact that you can get a ranking simply by being able to check this mon, or being steel type.
It has very few reliable, viable counters
Let me put this argument to rest. The only two counters that are viable to Talonflame is Heatran and Mega Slowbro. You might say Tyranitar or Garchomp and to that I say no. These mons lack the ability to reliably check Talonflame after they're burned. Garchomp can't really do anything to stallbreaker Talonflame regardless. But that's not always the problem, the fact that Talonflame has the strongest priority in the game it's not that it's not hard, though that is also an issue. It's fact that that this pokemon effectively neutralizes every fighting type, every bug type and every grass type. It doesn't matter how much they set up, how fast they become or how many attack boosts they have. Talonflame will kill them with a super effective priority move. But it's of course not only bug, grass and fight types. It's every pokemon with less than 115/115 defences. I am so eager to start team building without having to add unnecessary priority to my team or to carry a tyranitar on my trick room team.
Last edited:
+1 for this hype train. I think that it's idiotic that non-supereffective priority can OHKO 100/100/100 defenses.
And like you said, its existence invalidates those three types weak to flying. It's just plain stupid keeping this around.
Besides what else I mentioned, we losing nothing from banning Talonflame. You still have banded Extreme speed, you have Bullet punch + Extreme speed, you have Unaware users, rocky helmet, choice scarf! So many things you can use to revenge kill mons, we don't need this cancer in the metagame,
Tbh I'm for banning Talon as well. Not because of its crazy damage though. Just because nobody uses anything else >_>
I tested this(back when Sky Drop was still allowed), and the Sky Drop glitch doesn't work in gen 6. It simply ends the Sky Drop and the target can move again.
ScorrchingTheaph
nO u
Speaking of Sky Drop, I had made a gimmicky set that exploited the mechanics, back when it was legal. Sadly I never got to use it that much. It was a scarf max speed hawlucha (base 118) with skydrop+batonpass, into a minimum speed mew, max hp/atk with skydrop+transform. If hawlucha was faster than the target, and mew was slower than the target, you could get off the skydrop damage and a free transform without taking damage at all.
I'm going to have to ask the obvious corollary: What if Slaking uses Giga Impact as its first move?
Even so, a Slaking that can use Return on consecutive turns might still be OP.
From the guy who brought you the PerishTrap Murkrow.....
Presents the devastating Cloyster set that follows!
Ever since the dawn of gen 6, the unfortunate bivalve found out it not receive Water Shuriken, and it promptly wept in the corner. It transversed the Other Metagames in hope of finding one that works for it. Cloyster has found it's home in Linked, and it not only shines in it, its a force to be reckoned with, to say the least.
Cloyster @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
252 Speed/252 Attack/4 Defence Jolly Nature
-Icicle Spear (always link with Rock Blast)
-Rock Blast
-Shell Smash
-Razor Shell
What makes this such a terror to face is that Cloyster's King's Rock and Skill Link ability, when linked with Icicle Spear and Rock Blast, it provides what is very near to a 100% flinch rate (if it is faster). Try setting up Shell Smash as much as possible on Chansey, Blissey, or some other harmless wall. A +2 Cloyster will likely pummel your team with ease with its combo of Icicle Spear and Rock Blast. Even an unboosted Cloyster can still do major damage to many teams. Proposing A+ rank (or even S).
Presents the devastating Cloyster set that follows!
Ever since the dawn of gen 6, the unfortunate bivalve found out it not receive Water Shuriken, and it promptly wept in the corner. It transversed the Other Metagames in hope of finding one that works for it. Cloyster has found it's home in Linked, and it not only shines in it, its a force to be reckoned with, to say the least.
Cloyster @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
252 Speed/252 Attack/4 Defence Jolly Nature
-Icicle Spear (always link with Rock Blast)
-Rock Blast
-Shell Smash
-Razor Shell
What makes this such a terror to face is that Cloyster's King's Rock and Skill Link ability, when linked with Icicle Spear and Rock Blast, it provides what is very near to a 100% flinch rate (if it is faster). Try setting up Shell Smash as much as possible on Chansey, Blissey, or some other harmless wall. A +2 Cloyster will likely pummel your team with ease with its combo of Icicle Spear and Rock Blast. Even an unboosted Cloyster can still do major damage to many teams. Proposing A+ rank (or even S).
Last edited:
Kings rock is banned :/
Edit: So is razor fang
2nd edit: Jolly would be a better nature for this set if you want to run it in linked ubers
Before i was on the fence about Talonflame, but now i am all for banning it. I originally thought setup sweepers, especially Mega Gyarados, would run rampant in the tier if Talon were banned, but now i realize that statement is not as true as i thought (as previously stated there are many other ways to check setup) and that Talonflame really does more damage to the tier than good. Talonflame is simply too strong and over-prepared for, i say banning it would make the meta much more fun to play.
(Not only that but banning Talon would make Ditto more of a threat >:D hehe)
So I was watching a few battles and I came across this guy testing a smeargle set. Heres the replay:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-240443827
The set makes sense in theory - endure a hit and then endeavor/some other move the next turn with custap priority - but it didn't work nonetheless. The Immortal , is this a problem with coding, or is it suppose to do this
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-240443827
The set makes sense in theory - endure a hit and then endeavor/some other move the next turn with custap priority - but it didn't work nonetheless. The Immortal , is this a problem with coding, or is it suppose to do this
This issue has been highlighted before, it is a problem with coding but sadly nothing has been done to fix it yet :/
Sorry about the delay i haven't been playing Showdown much so i don't have many replays, not only that but i often forget to save replays even if they are good :/ but nevertheless here are some replays that showcase Ditto's power:
(I apologize in advance for not asking my opponents if i could share these replays)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-240464712
This Showcases Ditto in a best-case-scenario situation where it counter-sweeps my opponent.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-239962848
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-239720436
These two replays showcase what Ditto may accomplish in a typical game.
This Showcases Ditto in a best-case-scenario situation where it counter-sweeps my opponent.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-239962848
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/linked-239720436
These two replays showcase what Ditto may accomplish in a typical game.
Right, time to make this official
After seeing a lot of outcry both on the thread and on PS!, the next suspect test has been decided, talonflame. in around a week's time, the council will vote on this and judge whether talon should stay in the metagame or leave
From now till the suspect ends, I request that all Linked tournaments on PS be talon-less to judge how the metagame is without it
As the council of Linked, we must seriously consider people's opinion on how's the metagame without Talonflame. I'll ask some people on how the meta goes without Talonflame. So I suggest you all to join the Talon-less tour in PS when it's started and please leave comments here after joining two or three tours. I'll ask the following questions. Also, please be objective.
How's the metagame without it? Is it better or worse?
Does a Talon-less meta make set up sweepers harder to handle? Or is it easier?
How's the metagame without it? Is it better or worse?
Does a Talon-less meta make set up sweepers harder to handle? Or is it easier?
Undeniably it makes set up sweepers better, that is a fact. However, it doesn't make them to bad. I believe the metagame with talonflame is horribly centralised around the top A pokemon with little effective creativity. I'm looking forward to a metagame without talonflame and I welcome it with an open eye. When talonflame is banned, hopefully, I believe a large shift in the viability rankings is in order, talonflame presence renders a ton of pokemon less viable, and some pokemon more viable. An example would be azumarill, serperior, manaphy, heracross, weavile, victini and thats just in the high rankings. We still have things to handle set up sweepers in ditto, a pokemon thats growing on me. We also have rocky helmet, scarfers and priority. This centralising cancer isn't needed
InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
So I personally don't think Talon should be banned. In my opinion there are 4 things that are centralizing that have to be built around, and imo none are broken. These are FakeTurn, Scarf setup or DD mons, Flinchax, and priority (Talon being the forefront here). Linked is a very offensive meta, and while it is centralized, it's not just around Talon. Talon keeps the variety of Scarfers from overwhelming the meta, and no, Ditto does not do this--it can only speed tie. Talonflame can easily be beaten if you build and play correctly, and I can say I've never been swept by Talon (hell, the max number of kills it got was 1 lmao and I don't use Tran, MegaBro, Rotom-W, or a Rock type).
How to beat Talonflame:
Rock-types: They resist both its STABs, are generally physically bulky, and can KO back with their Rock STAB. The best would probably be Tyranitar (252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 118-139 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery OR 252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 162-190 (40 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO if bulky offensive set), Rhyperior (252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 139-166 (32.1 - 38.3%) -- 1.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery), and Mega Diancie (Mega Diancie needs a safe switch in though, as it usually doens't invest in defenses and takes 67.2 - 79.6% damage uninvested). While the first two dislike burns, they can still oneshot Talon with Stone Edge. And no, Ground Natural Gift (which is the best one imo so you hit Tran) doesn't do much. It only does around 40% to TTar and Rhyperior has Solid Rock. If you run Grass, Water, or Fighting, that leaves you walled by other Pokemon instead.252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Relicanth: 139-165 (40.7 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO RELICANTH OP PLZ NERF Kabutops can also tank Talonflame's attacks and hit it hard with SD+Waterfall/Stone Edge or Stone Edge+Waterfall, outspeeding WoW in Rain. Regirock also exists and tanks Talonflame's hits all day (252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 76-90 (20.8 - 24.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery)
TankChomp: This is what I use and it's been working great. Again, it dislikes burns, but it gets the job done. Burned 0 Atk Stone Edge still does around 85% aka its ded after that and one round of Rocky Helmet/Rough Skin. Stealth Rock/Dragon Tail is another cool link and is the one I use. Dragon Tail does around 40% to Talon, so after Rocks and one round of Helmet/Skin damage its dead again (or its dead after using BB and AA getting the passive damage, losing health via recoil from BB, then getting killed by DTail)l
Ferrothorn: This loses to Flare Blitz and dislikes WoW, but it deals over 50% damage via 2 hits of Rocky Helmet/Iron Barbs and can Seed/Protect or Gyro Talon.
NOTE: One of these 3 (Ferro, Chomp, or a Rock-type) should be on most teams already, simply for the utility that Stealth Rock provides.
Mega Slowbro:
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 166-198 (42.1 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
That is the absolute most Talonflame can do (and most usually run Acro, which is better imo). Acro does this:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 160-190 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
What does MegaBro do back?
4 SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 294-348 (98.9 - 117.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
Scald+Slack Off gets you back to around 50% if you switched in, otherwise, if you got a safe switch in, you're back at full pretty much. Or if you CM + Scald it's a guaranteed OHKO (duh lol).
Rotom-Wash:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 121-143 (39.9 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 124-147 (40.9 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 336-396 (113.1 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Nuff said really, the calcs show it all. Rotom-W can tank Talon's strongest hits and OHKO back. Btw this is just the generic OU Rotom-W, running more Def or SpA is definitely an option.
Heatran: The best counter to non-Ground Natural Gift Talonflame. Enjoys eating Wisps and Blitzes, and can tank Brave Birds all day.
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 121-144 (31.4 - 37.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Or you can run less Defense. 92 EVs avoids the 2HKO from Band BB/AA after rocks:
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 92 Def Heatran: 153-180 (39.7 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
It OHKOs back with Ancient Power.
Now, you can say that a lot of these are worn down or KOed/neutered by the correct Natural Gift or WoW, but tbh, then they aren't defeated by the Band set I used, allowing them to tank more hits. This also allows other, less bulky but still decently bulky Pokemon to check Talon. All of them can beat Talon despite burns. Going back to what I said earlier about there being 4 main things that "centralize" Linked that every team must prepare for, Talonflame helps keep 2 of them in check. It is one stop to FakeTurn overwhelming the meta, as it can reliably revenge kill Infernape, Mienshao, and Ambipom, the 3 main FakeTurners. It also can revenge kill some of the main Scarfers, including Keldeo, Serperior, and Manaphy. I also don't think it makes Grass, Bug, and Fighting types unviable. I use Serperior and it is amazing, despite its huge Talon weakness. It can revenge kill many of the Pokemon in higher ranks such as Zard X, Keldeo, Quagsire, and Manaphy, and as long as you pack a Talon counter, it will perform exceptionally.
TL; DR: A whole bunch of stuff beats Talonflame, and if it doesn't run Band then more stuff beats it. Don't run BB+Roost since then it's still walled by everything it's walled by in OU .-. While it does force you to run a counter to it, there are Pokemon that do this in every meta. If we banned everything that you needed to check or counter, the meta would only consist of Caterpie and Feebas. Talonflame does NOT make Grass, Bug, and Fighting types unviable, as long as you use them correctly and pack a counter to Talonflame. Talonflame is a great mon in this meta, keeping two playstyles in check (FakeTurn and Scarf-setup), which would otherwise run rampant. I think if we were to ban Talon, the meta would basically turn into "whose Scarfer is faster" as no priority would be strong enough to care about really. Ditto does NOT keep these Scarfers in check as it can only speed tie them (it does keep the Megas in check though). So in my opinion don't ban Talonflame.
How to beat Talonflame:
Rock-types: They resist both its STABs, are generally physically bulky, and can KO back with their Rock STAB. The best would probably be Tyranitar (252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 118-139 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery OR 252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 162-190 (40 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO if bulky offensive set), Rhyperior (252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 139-166 (32.1 - 38.3%) -- 1.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery), and Mega Diancie (Mega Diancie needs a safe switch in though, as it usually doens't invest in defenses and takes 67.2 - 79.6% damage uninvested). While the first two dislike burns, they can still oneshot Talon with Stone Edge. And no, Ground Natural Gift (which is the best one imo so you hit Tran) doesn't do much. It only does around 40% to TTar and Rhyperior has Solid Rock. If you run Grass, Water, or Fighting, that leaves you walled by other Pokemon instead.
TankChomp: This is what I use and it's been working great. Again, it dislikes burns, but it gets the job done. Burned 0 Atk Stone Edge still does around 85% aka its ded after that and one round of Rocky Helmet/Rough Skin. Stealth Rock/Dragon Tail is another cool link and is the one I use. Dragon Tail does around 40% to Talon, so after Rocks and one round of Helmet/Skin damage its dead again (or its dead after using BB and AA getting the passive damage, losing health via recoil from BB, then getting killed by DTail)l
Ferrothorn: This loses to Flare Blitz and dislikes WoW, but it deals over 50% damage via 2 hits of Rocky Helmet/Iron Barbs and can Seed/Protect or Gyro Talon.
NOTE: One of these 3 (Ferro, Chomp, or a Rock-type) should be on most teams already, simply for the utility that Stealth Rock provides.
Mega Slowbro:
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 166-198 (42.1 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
That is the absolute most Talonflame can do (and most usually run Acro, which is better imo). Acro does this:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 160-190 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
What does MegaBro do back?
4 SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 294-348 (98.9 - 117.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
Scald+Slack Off gets you back to around 50% if you switched in, otherwise, if you got a safe switch in, you're back at full pretty much. Or if you CM + Scald it's a guaranteed OHKO (duh lol).
Rotom-Wash:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 121-143 (39.9 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 124-147 (40.9 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 336-396 (113.1 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Nuff said really, the calcs show it all. Rotom-W can tank Talon's strongest hits and OHKO back. Btw this is just the generic OU Rotom-W, running more Def or SpA is definitely an option.
Heatran: The best counter to non-Ground Natural Gift Talonflame. Enjoys eating Wisps and Blitzes, and can tank Brave Birds all day.
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 121-144 (31.4 - 37.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Or you can run less Defense. 92 EVs avoids the 2HKO from Band BB/AA after rocks:
252+ Atk Choice Band Parental Bond Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 92 Def Heatran: 153-180 (39.7 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
It OHKOs back with Ancient Power.
Now, you can say that a lot of these are worn down or KOed/neutered by the correct Natural Gift or WoW, but tbh, then they aren't defeated by the Band set I used, allowing them to tank more hits. This also allows other, less bulky but still decently bulky Pokemon to check Talon. All of them can beat Talon despite burns. Going back to what I said earlier about there being 4 main things that "centralize" Linked that every team must prepare for, Talonflame helps keep 2 of them in check. It is one stop to FakeTurn overwhelming the meta, as it can reliably revenge kill Infernape, Mienshao, and Ambipom, the 3 main FakeTurners. It also can revenge kill some of the main Scarfers, including Keldeo, Serperior, and Manaphy. I also don't think it makes Grass, Bug, and Fighting types unviable. I use Serperior and it is amazing, despite its huge Talon weakness. It can revenge kill many of the Pokemon in higher ranks such as Zard X, Keldeo, Quagsire, and Manaphy, and as long as you pack a Talon counter, it will perform exceptionally.
TL; DR: A whole bunch of stuff beats Talonflame, and if it doesn't run Band then more stuff beats it. Don't run BB+Roost since then it's still walled by everything it's walled by in OU .-. While it does force you to run a counter to it, there are Pokemon that do this in every meta. If we banned everything that you needed to check or counter, the meta would only consist of Caterpie and Feebas. Talonflame does NOT make Grass, Bug, and Fighting types unviable, as long as you use them correctly and pack a counter to Talonflame. Talonflame is a great mon in this meta, keeping two playstyles in check (FakeTurn and Scarf-setup), which would otherwise run rampant. I think if we were to ban Talon, the meta would basically turn into "whose Scarfer is faster" as no priority would be strong enough to care about really. Ditto does NOT keep these Scarfers in check as it can only speed tie them (it does keep the Megas in check though). So in my opinion don't ban Talonflame.