Project Lure that Threat V2

[FroTW]

Not really, since without the item/move Tangrowth can freely switch as it pleases allowing it to regen whenever the trainer wants it too. My way forces Tangrowth to take so much damage that even a single switch isn't enough to regen, with or without Giga Drain. Normal Hippowdon can only whittle away at the mass of vines with weak moves whilst mine can hold it down and stall it out.

 

[TPP]

Not really, since without the item/move Tangrowth can freely switch as it pleases allowing it to regen whenever the trainer wants it too. My way forces Tangrowth to take so much damage that even a single switch isn't enough to regen, with or without Giga Drain. Normal Hippowdon can only whittle away at the mass of vines with weak moves whilst mine can hold it down and stall it out.

Only problem is that in order for that to work, you have to hit Tangrowth with Sand Tomb the turn it comes in, and then go for Toxic. While you go for Toxic, Tangrowth can go for Giga Drain or Leaf Storm and force you to lose a good chunk of your health. After that, you are now forced to spam Slack Off while they spam Giga Drain/Leaf Storm, and eventually, they might have low HP from the Toxic, but it's way too risky considering Giga Drain has a good chance to 2HKO as you don't have Leftovers.

0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 200-236 (47.6 - 56.1%) -- 81.3% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Tangrowth Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 344-408 (81.9 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Overall, you're putting yourself more at risk by going for Toxic after going for Sand Tomb, and it'd probably be in your best interest to maintain Hippowdon for the team in order to check other threats the opponent may have. Hippowdon doesn't wanna risk taking 2 grass attacks in a row, which is why imo it's better just to go for Toxic.

 

[FroTW]

Only problem is that in order for that to work, you have to hit Tangrowth with Sand Tomb the turn it comes in, and then go for Toxic. While you go for Toxic, Tangrowth can go for Giga Drain or Leaf Storm and force you to lose a good chunk of your health. After that, you are now forced to spam Slack Off while they spam Giga Drain/Leaf Storm, and eventually, they might have low HP from the Toxic, but it's way too risky considering Giga Drain has a good chance to 2HKO as you don't have Leftovers.

0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 200-236 (47.6 - 56.1%) -- 81.3% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Tangrowth Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 344-408 (81.9 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Overall, you're putting yourself more at risk by going for Toxic after going for Sand Tomb, and it'd probably be in your best interest to maintain Hippowdon for the team in order to check other threats the opponent may have. Hippowdon doesn't wanna risk taking 2 grass attacks in a row, which is why imo it's better just to go for Toxic.

Actually I'm using a full SpD Hippo (I'm not a fan of mixed walls) so the calcs are really more like this:
0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Hippowdon: 170-204 (40.4 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Tangrowth Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Hippowdon: 296-350 (70.4 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With full SpD the Hippo can face tank any attack from Tangrowth and even if the first Sand Tomb misses, he can Slack Off if it was Leaf Storm then try again or just try again if it was Giga Drain. And of course this is based on the move hitting, just about every strategy is. He is at no real risk unless the Tangrowth starts getting crits.

edit: In case you're wondering, the real reason I went full SpD is that on Defence, those 140 points equate to a difference of ~2% while on SpD it makes a difference of ~14%

 

[Whisudi]

Actually I'm using a full SpD Hippo (I'm not a fan of mixed walls) so the calcs are really more like this:
0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Hippowdon: 170-204 (40.4 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Tangrowth Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Hippowdon: 296-350 (70.4 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With full SpD the Hippo can face tank any attack from Tangrowth and even if the first Sand Tomb misses, he can Slack Off if it was Leaf Storm then try again or just try again if it was Giga Drain. And of course this is based on the move hitting, just about every strategy is. He is at no real risk unless the Tangrowth starts getting crits.

edit: In case you're wondering, the real reason I went full SpD is that on Defence, those 140 points equate to a difference of ~2% while on SpD it makes a difference of ~14%

The real problem lies in that you are actually sacrificing the viability and purpose of using hippowdon in OU. Hippowdon is meant to check threats like talonflame, terrakion, m-lopunny, bisharp, etc...

 

[FroTW]

The real problem lies in that you are actually sacrificing the viability and purpose of using hippowdon in OU. Hippowdon is meant to check threats like talonflame, terrakion, m-lopunny, bisharp, etc...

If you look at the Other Options section on Hippowdon you'll find the SpD spread I'm using there to counter mons like Gengar, Magnezone, and Charizard Y. Not only that but Hippowdon can still check those mons thanks to his bulk and if you actually look at the damage calculator as I mentioned in the post you just quoted, the difference for those 140 Def EVs is about 3% from physical attacks (if you change the nature as well, forgot to do that before) but if you put those 140 EVs int SpD then you're taking 22% off from Special Attacks (edit: forgot to calculate in the nature change). So even with this change Hippowdon can easily check the mons and all you're really giving up is the ability to 2HKO Terrakion/Bisharp but most teams these days run Scald and a Fire/Fighting move anyway so there are other mons who can take him out. Besides, just about every non-gimmick team is going to have a way to burn the enemy mons making heavy Def investment questionable.

Honestly, its starting to sound less like my set is an issue (since the only calcs brought up were incorrect) and more like you guys don't want my set to work. Just open your minds to new ideas (which is the main point of this whole thread) and if all else fails just test it out.

 

[matthewc20090]

Signal Beam Magnezone

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Signal Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Volt Switch

A fun lure for Tangrowth, and hits Celebi and the Latis as well.

Some calcs:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 158-186 (39.1 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 158-186 (39.1 - 46%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 194-230 (48 - 56.9%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO

You could also run 172 EVs into HP and survive an EQ, at the cost of some speed.

 

[bludz]

Just did a test with a friend and apparently Giga Drain doesn't matter, that Hippo does actually win 1v1. So I was wrong about that. But my point still stands about slashes, I just used a poor example without trying it out first.

 

[FroTW]

Just did a test with a friend and apparently Giga Drain doesn't matter, that Hippo does actually win 1v1. So I was wrong about that. But my point still stands about slashes, I just used a poor example without trying it out first.

You're right about the slashes, I am glad that the sets are more diverse now and since there's a chance of Giga Drain I'll flip the Roar / Toxic slash to better accommodate the new and more challenging Tangrowth.

 

[TPP]

Voting starts now and will end in 48 hours!

HP Flying Thundurus

Swords Dance + Natural Gift (Lansat Berry) Breloom

X-Scissor Excadrill

Sap Sipper Azumarill

Offensive Mega Slowbro

Sludge Wave Thundurus

Sand Tomb + Grip Claw Hippowdon

Life Orb Explosion Landorus-Therian

Megahorn Rhyperior

Choice Specs Focus Blast Keldeo

Choice Specs Signal Beam Magnezone

 

[Louna]

HP Flying Thundurus

 

[SketchUp]

HP Flying Thundy

 

[nameless90]

Megahorn Rhyperior

 

[Sun]

HP Flying thundurus

 

[Bice]

Sludge Wave Thundurus

 

[SANJAY]

sludge wave thundy

 

[Aragorn the King]

Sludge Wave Thundurus

 

[Swagata]

Sludge Wave Thundurus

 

[AD impish john]

The Winner through Voting goes to Sludge Wave Thundurus by GnralLao! Other Winners are Hidden Power Flying Thundurus and Offensive Mega Slowbro!

Honorable Mentions include X-Scissor Excadrill, Choice Specs Focus Blast Keldeo, and Megahorn Rhyperior!

Lures

Sludge Wave Thundurus: 4
Hidden Power Flying Thundurus: 3
Megahorn Rhyperior: 1
Swords Dance + Natural Gift Breloom: 1

​

 

[AD impish john]

Week 23: Assault Vest Tornadus-Therian

Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 96 HP / 160 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave / Superpower
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Tornadus-Therian is one of the most common Pokemon in the OU Tier mostly because of Bulky Ground types such as Garchomp, and Hippowdon. Tornadus-T has a very good movepool to abuse its Utility such as Taunt, U-Turn, and Knock Off and with a stronger power to use strong hitting moves like Hurricane, Focus Blast, and even Superpower. It is also a Pure Flying type making it resist Fighting type moves unlike other Flying types with the Normal typing. However Tornadus-Therian does have its flaws, despite it's bulk it often gets weakened by Stealth Rocks which lower it's recovery each time it switches in. Tornadus-Therian also has the problem of not being able to run all it's best moves at once making it at least weak to one Pokemon each time.​

 

[Random Passerby]

Pretty sure I've seen AV Torn-T before but ....

Alakazam @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Thunder Wave

Thunder Wave allows Alakazam to cripple Tornadus-T on the switch and allows you to easily 2HKO it with Psychic next time it comes in. It is also a viable move to use against set-up sweepers and Choice Scarf users who can take hits from Alakazam (such as Jirachi who only fears Shadow Ball otherwise).

252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 144-172 (44.5 - 53.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[heritage]

Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power Fire
- Glare

Normally, Serperior can't exactly beat Tornadus-T with ease, but with Glare, Serperior is able to take away what is arguably Tornadus-T's best quality, its Speed stat. Now, it's heavily crippled and Serperior proceeds to outspeed. It has the chance to 2HKO it with Leaf Storm after Stealth Rock damage with some decent rolls. Even if Serperior can't manage that, Tornadus-T becomes a liability, as it is extremely easy to revenge kill, and is generally pretty useless for the rest of the match.

serperior is the best starter get over it

252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 70-82 (21.6 - 25.3%) -- 0.6% chance to 4HKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 139-164 (43 - 50.7%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO

Lowest roll possible with Stealth Rock + two Leaf Storms is like 90%

 

[Swagata]

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
- Moonblast
- Knock Off
- Soft-boiled
- Calm Mind/Stealth Rocks

Pretty self explanatory. Knock off removes the AV and somewhat cripples it, making Torn less bulky

 

[GnralLao]

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb / Hidden Power Fire
- Stun Spore

After Amoonguss has Spored a threat, Tornadus-T fears absolutely nothing from it... well, that is unless it carries Stun Spore, which cripples it for the rest of the match. Aside from that, Amoonguss still can't do much against Tornadus-T and that's exactly why it's an excellent lure: Tornadus-T has every reason to switch into Amoonguss since its strongest move only does around 20% at most, but when it's equipped with Stun Spore, Tornadus-T, switching in with impunity, will get what it deserves for its carelessness.

Oh and I didn't slash Foul Play or even Clear Smog as they're kind of redundant with Stun Spore.

 

[nameless90]

Scarf Gengar

Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt

252+ SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 158-186 (48.9 - 57.5%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed after 8 HP of residual damage)

Ok, 92,8% is not 100% but, still, is a good lure.

Normally, Gengar is hard checked by AV Tornadus-T which can OHKO the ghost with little effort (Knock Off almost OHKOes with little prior damage while being outsped by the Flying type). Click Thunderbolt predicting the switch-in of AV Tornadus and then -surprise, surprise!- you outspeed Tornadus knocking it out.

Choice Scarf allows Gengar to run Modest nature alongside its already good SpA.

 

[skies]

Scarf Gengar

Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt

252+ SpA Life Orb Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 205-242 (63.4 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

or even​

252+ SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 164-192 (50.7 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Normally, Gengar is hard checked by AV Tornadus-T which can OHKO the ghost with little effort (Knock Off almost OHKOes with little prior damage while being outsped by the Flying type). Choice Scarf allows Gengar to run Modest nature alongside its already good SpA.

Your calcs have LO, but you're running Scarf. Might want to fix that. O_O