NOC Great Idea Mafia-Game Over! Mafia, vonFiedler, and More Cowbell win!

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Interesting idea.

BT voted Walrein, DLE/Tesung, and Felony. Walrein was RVS and Felony is obv village.

Links to all the posts where he suspected/voted someone:
RVS on Walrein
Pressure vote on DLE for activity
Random accusation on Obbmud
Comments on Obbmud/Lightwolf
Defending against LW, explanation of his vote on DLE
Vote/Accusation on Felony

Huh. Tesung stands out mostly TBH, although this whole idea is very flimsy. I don't really have much to say, he had very little content at all unless I missed something.
 
Yeah, I suppose that that idea doesn't really pan out. He was likely voted for because of his experience... DLE/Tesung does seem like a pretty major thing, though. Neither has posted all that much, and I felt like tesung gave a good explanation for his/her mistake with "scumhunting being bad," so that doesn't give us a whole lot of material. Even B_T's accusations on DLE were mostly for inactivity...

PokeguyNXB should really post soon, and change his vote from No Lynch to something else (since No Lynch is just advantageous to the mafia). I'm keeping my vote on him until he posts something. I don't want a tie between Pokeguy and Ullar, though. (Sometimes being a mayor is a tad annoying.)

Tesung hasn't said all that much lately, and I would like to see more from him/her. I would probably vote Tesung for more pressure at the moment, but that would push it to majority... wow, sometimes being a mayor is a tad annoying.
 
What would you like me to say lol. Do you expect me to take it seriously when one of the scummiest players, starwarsfan, half accuses me for a pressure vote when dle was inactive. I have stated my case, and in my opinion the accusations against me are based on basically nothing other than when I said something illogical in my first post. I think that celever and starwarsfan are scummy, and that their ridiculous over analyzing is possibly,compensating for being mafia.
 
unvote. So... the real reason i haven't posted anything of use yet is (get ready to facepalm) I have not clue how i'm supposed to quote multiple posts. There, I admited it. But then again, this game is the only thread without CAP in the title that i've posted to on smogon, and I don't really need to quote anything in CAP discusions. But doing an analysis of a specific post, like in any NOC mafia, I need to be able to quote. I know this is a lame "drrr i'm a noob" post, but it's the honest truth.
 
Tesung: I can see your point of view, and I understand your explanation for your minor mistake. You definitely aren't the most suspicious person at the moment. Also, thanks for responding so quickly.

PokeguyNXB: You know the "Reply" button, that inserts a quote into your post? Just hit the Reply button for multiple posts and both posts will be inserted into yours as quotes. Now, let's see some information!
 
It wasn't your first post I was talking about most recently, and despite me being under the radar, I'd like you to answer for pulling accusations out of your ass kthanx
 
Not gonna lie I got you confused with someone else about the inactivity targeting thing. With that said, you have accused people erratically and without much to back it up, in a way that almost seems intentionally counterproductive
 
Celever said:
I'm not at all saying that LightWolf is scum, I am saying that we shouldn't jump to conclusions. He has the experience to put on a facade and trick the majority of us here. People are even bw'ing on opinions here. I think it was Walrein who said he got an extremely towny read from LW, and then word started to spread, more people said "oh hey, LW is really towny!" and then people just subbing in like Tesung have got word of it and are trusting the guy immediately. Guys, LW is not clean. I don't know why people think that he is. I mean sure, he's contributing, but everyone thought that AG was in the Twilight Princess NOC too, and look where that got us.
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I agree with celever on the matter that Lightwolf may not instantly be town because he is posting good information for us. However, on the basis on which we are voting right now it seems to me that any minor evidence that we can find becomes basically lynch material. Lightwolf's non-scummy-ness (not a word?) tells us that he is either town, or good at hiding, which is amplified if he were to play in many games. That being said, Lightwolf's aggressive behavior against other players has lead me to consider the fact that a defensive reaction to an offensive post may be in order, especially if you cannot find flaws in the accusation of the accuser (unlike felony, who attacked his attackers in his defense). How else would you expect somebody to respond if they are being accused by somebody. They would only have two options: explain themselves or go offensive on somebody else (which might be considered scape-goating). I am simply suggesting that counting simply defending against well though out accusation as a scummy maneuver could easily get clean people killed. This is how I believe Felony got killed, and Lightwolf did happen to be on that wagon. I'm staying on UllarWarlord, because bandwagoning a silent bandwagoner is clearly the way to go. FOS Lightwolf.....Wait this isn't Twilight Princess NOC
 
LightWolf said:
Of course I'm going for easy targets, because easy targets make themselves targets by making mistakes. More experienced people don't make that kind of mistake, they usually slip on the long run by contradicting their past posts or changing their playstyle so there is so little to grab onto. Not to mention they tend to die, doesn't hurt if you let the mafia narrow it down for you(We will miss you B_T). Honestly the sillyness of you presenting going after easy targets as something bad is driving me loco. I will look over them since you asked but don't be disappointed when my post amounts to "I got nothing"(Since as I stated previously I see not much point in saying they seem villagish).

For the requests I will do them in like 2-3 hours or tomorrow morning(23:35 here) depending on how sleepy I am in 1-2 hours.
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My point was that you are drilling at easy targets with no regard about whether they are village or scum, or even whether you believe they are village or scum. Most new players react badly under pressure, that's a fact, they panic whether they are scum or not. By you playing so over-aggressively, I feel like some of us are going to get confused about some reactions. In the end, it could end up being counter-productive for our lynches. Also, some experienced players could screw up under pressure. How can we know? You won't be pressuring them...
 
Alright, I finally got my own internet back after a journey back home that took longer than expected, I will type up something big with my thoughts on the last 4 pages somewhere in the next couple of hours.
 
Celever said:
My point was that you are drilling at easy targets with no regard about whether they are village or scum, or even whether you believe they are village or scum. Most new players react badly under pressure, that's a fact, they panic whether they are scum or not. By you playing so over-aggressively, I feel like some of us are going to get confused about some reactions. In the end, it could end up being counter-productive for our lynches. Also, some experienced players could screw up under pressure. How can we know? You won't be pressuring them...
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You listed yourself as an italic, ergo somewhat experienced, and I'm pressuring you, so clearly you just lied, you heard it here folks lynch him!

On the more serious note, I already explained damnit! How do I pressure Walrein if he done nothing pressure worthy??? Also yeah I don't care if someone appears village or scum up till that point, if I see a pressure point, I will stab a needle into it mercilessly, considering your point not so long ago was that just because many think I sound townlike they shouldn't stop thinking of me as a suspect, this seems kinda contradictionary, and I have said it already I don't trust any of you minus the two who are clean.

Also you are seriously implying, I should go easy on people, just because they are inexperienced? Yeah inexperienced villagers will likely react badly, but who cares, an inexperienced mafia will react worse OR way better(someone taking an attack way too well can be a hint that their experienced scum buddy helped them reply). In my eyes you guys are are way toooooo passive especially since we got no general agreement on a lynch target less than 24 hours before the deadline, and extensions depend on activity, and I don't know about you, but my aggressive style if making people post fairly effectively(minus when they are ignored, RIGHT starwarsfan ?!)

So since I honestly feel like everyone has been kinda ignoring my side here, I want actual answers from others on the matter rather than oneliners brushing the issue aside:

Nearly every post of Celever this day included attacks directly aimed at me while I questioned him, including stuff targeting my playstyle, the fact that I'm an experienced player(while at first ignoring every other experienced player and directly bolding my name(I mean yeah he listed every player in his list, but I mean the huge paragraph after only focuses on me)) or that I voted Felony(which he admitted he only did to make people doubt me). So what do you guys think about this behavior of Celever?

I will now finally keep my promise and look at the experienced players in this game, better late than never but don't expect anything really...
 
Double post time unless I get ninjaed:

All three are playing well honestly, none of the obvious gaining trust moves even, like claiming Felony sounds more town before the lynch(Ace got the closest to that, but he never directly suggested it, which is kinda pointless since who is actually gonna consider something that subtle as why he is clean)

Only real things to note are that Walrein hasn't been around for 4 pages(I believe it's school so understandable) and MC has been posting little arguments wise, but he had limited internet and is about to post something HUGE(post size wise).

Only thing suspicious is that they all said I looked town to them, but only Ace suggested that I could potentially fake it(or MC did too... Well I'm sure Walrein didn't say that at least). Though Walrein explains this by thinking that it'd be to the detriment of mafiawolf if he acted this way. Still I don't like such hard he looks clean statements early(mafia can use it to set up situations where someone who thinks they are clean through the game is left at lylo and votes in their favour), but Ace points out it could be a facade and Walrein reasoned why he thought so and I don't really remember what MC did, but in the end it leaves me nothing to actually grab onto there. I do hope Walrein can contribute before the day ends, and I'm not just saying that because I found a past post of him using the words "Celever" "Voting DLE" and "overreaction" together in a previous post >_> <_<.
 
Okay, so now that I finally have the time, I will try to post something useful again! Yay! I will just start reading on page 8, where I last posted anything of value, and will move down the pages and quote and comment on anything that I find interesting, or worth a response. If my opinion on people changes over the course of the post, that is because newer post give new insights in the game, and I'm just working through the stack of posts here. Here goes. (Note: I don't know how to properly quote posts on multiple pages so I'll link posts instead, so excuse me it this ends up as a bit of a mess.)

Celever, #188

I feel Celever's post in this game in general are coherent, and I feel they have the best interest of the town in mind. He's been forced on the defensive here, but does it well. Interesting point made about LightWolf not being clean despite him being aggressive; I have some bad experience with LightWolf playing this way (see: Mafia from the Depths), but as LightWolf pointed out before: there is no 'town LW' or 'mafia LW', there's only 'NOC LW'. As of this post, I still consider LW more town than mafia, though.

UllarWarlord, #194

Yay, nice reads on dead players. Good job. Saying we can't learn much from dead players is false as well as counterproductive. Ullar says Tesung doesn't rationalize anything, while in the meantime doing pretty much exactly the same. In post #196, Walrein kinda sums up my thoughts on Ullar: he's not adding anything to discussion and trying to pass himself off as noobtown, which IMO isn't really working since Ullar is one of the more experienced players in this game.

Obbmud99, #202

I get a feeling here that Obbmud is trying to help out the village by giving some reads and trying to get inactives to post. Definitely a good thing, glad to see Obbmud out of his defensive position for once.

Spiresquire, #206

Very interesting post, which raises some critical points in this game. I have never seen Spiresquire play mafia before, but for a new player (I think?) I find he shows a pretty good understanding of how the game works, and some good self-awareness in the game as well. This post reads town to me, though Spiresquire shows enough understanding to be a good mafia member as well, while avoiding some heat for being new.

Obbmud99 and starwarsfan, #209-213

Not much to say about this exchange, since it looks to me like it mostly came down to a misunderstanding. Swf is resorting to shorter posts here, and acting sort of offended (which I can kind of get, with so many votes going towards him here). Swf is not among the players which I mostly consider town, but I don't think all the votes on him are warranted, I would much rather see Tesung or Ullar lynched (as of #213, at least).

Tesung, #214

Not really the defense I (and probably many others) were hoping for; two-line reads on all players, meh, nothing too special.

[Insert 20 posts with discussion about the word 'tribunal' and 12 vote counts]

UllarWarlord, #237

https://s-media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/49/25/df/4925df58e0018f28564ea09e151fcf07.jpg Ullar right now. Seriously though, ''don't lynch me because I make retarded posts'' is terrible reasoning. Voting Ullar is getting more tempting with every post he makes.

UllarWarlord, #250

Ah, here comes the great defense of Ullar! Or wait, no, all he's going to do is link to a post Walrein made (why again?) and throw some OMGUS at Tesung. Seriously, is there a role that benefits from being lynched? Seems like Ullar is really trying here.

Celever, #262

Thanks for the honour, but calling me experienced is kind of a stretch, really. I've played two NOC games before, I believe (Mafia from the Depths and ANOCymous, iirc) and co-hosted one (TP NOC), though that was mostly shinyskarmory's work. I am more experienced that most players, yes, but not on the level of players like LightWolf and Walrein. I will still try my best to help out the village as best as I can, though ;)

Your point about LightWolf is good, though; as you pointed out earlier as well (as basically the only player), LW is definitely not clean. I remember Mafia from the Depths in which I remained in the game with LightWolf and Shining Latios, after which I proceeded to (wrongfully) lynch SL, since I trusted LW all throughout the game. I learned from that situation, though (and this is a warning to everyone); if a player set-up towards the end of the game is too much in favour of one person, chances are that one person has some mafia buddies who helped arrange that situation. Now, I am not saying LW is mafia; I'm saying LW is a good player who knows what he's doing, so don't trust him in every situation.

PokeguyNXB, #264

Saying ''everything has been said already'' is lazy, and I honestly expected more here. No lynching right now is bad. If you're lost, ask questions and read the thread, but don't just say you're lost.

LightWolf, #266

Everything Celever said in #262 does indeed count for me and Walrein as well. I honestly find very little doubt has been coming my way; I appreciate the trust, of course, but some healthy paranoia is good. This goes for anyone: feel free to just ask me questions as much as anyone else, it definitely won't hurt the game to question everyone.

I must say LightWolf is kinda tunneling Celever here and not giving too much thought about other players under fire (Ullar, Tesung, swf). His reasoning is sound, but fanning out a bit wouldn't hurt.

LightWolf, #270

Hey hey hey, here's the fanning out I was hoping for. Good points being made, and also shares my feelings on Ullar (almost annoying to the point where you want to lynch him just for that).

Regarding the whole LightWolf-Celever mechanic at work towards the end of page 11, I don't really know what to think of it. Neither have appeared particularly anti-town to me, it mostly looks like some sort of personal vendetta against each other. It's an interesting thing to go over later should either of the two die, but I also hope both players will not only focus on each other, but also on others.

Tesung, #278

Really, try to add something, anything, to the discussion. Not doing anything is more counterproductive than anything.

PokeguyNXB, #279

Pffff, let's hope we get something good this time. By now this inactivity is starting to get ridiculous (admittedly, I also had a couple of days of inactivity, but I always tried to give at least some thought, albeit minimal).

UllarWarlord, #282

Who are you responding to? Why so aggressive?

LightWolf, #288

Like I stated in a previous reply in this post, I find that both you and Celever are really going at each other (based mostly on the fact that LW is an experienced player?), and only recently (last ~1.5 pages) have you two been looking at others more as well. I think that Celever, after his initial defensive start, is trying to become more aggressive, which is not a bad thing per se. Honestly, I find this a very difficult situation, because I consider neither of you two particularly scummy. I think LightWolf, so far, is the more productive player of the two.

LightWolf, #289

Not sure if this qualifies as HUGE, but I hope this gives everyone something to work with.

Anyways, now I'm up-to-date with the thread again, it's time to point some fingers and place some votes again. At this point, the players I'd go after are Tesung and UllarWarlord; ever after voting for him earlier he has done little to try and change my opinion. Meanwhile, as I hopefully made clear in my post, Ullar is just playing horribly right now. It may be bandwagonning, yes, but still: unvote, lynch UllarWarlord. We're getting seriously close to Metal Sonic-levels of terrible play, and I don't like it one bit.

Other players that I'd like to be more active are PokeguyNXB (who has posted nothing of value yet) and Walrein, who pretty much has just disappeared (I get that school costs a ton of time, but I was honestly hoping for some more material here). It's been a while since I've heard anything from Cancerous as well.

Anyways, that is it for now; since I'm back now I'll be much faster at responding to any questions/remarks/accusations/whatever, so feel free to go at me.
 
More Cowbell said:
Other players that I'd like to be more active are PokeguyNXB (who has posted nothing of value yet) and Walrein, who pretty much has just disappeared (I get that school costs a ton of time, but I was honestly hoping for some more material here). It's been a while since I've heard anything from Cancerous as well.
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I wouldn't give walrein too much crap. He not only has school but is running Wayne Brady mafia. I'm kind of shocked that he joined this game.

This post took 20 min to delete all of more cowbells stuff. iPhone typing though.
 
All right then. Ullar (who is definitely my top suspect right now) will be lynched in four and a half hours anyway if I recall correctly, so really it doesn't matter if I choose to lynch him. He has 5 votes right now, and a mayor vote will push it up to majority.

He hasn't defended himself in any way besides saying that he's new at this... which isn't a particularly convincing defense, as mentioned earlier. Even if he is village, he hasn't proven to be a help to it thus far.

I know that I'm unvoting Pokeguy to eliminate any chances of a tie... thoughts on me voting Ullar, just moving this to majority, and ending the day?
 
So it's come to this.

Claiming Pacifist. I got confused about my role, whichf fsr I thought that the non-kill night had to come first. I would have contributed more had I known this was the case - my plan was to come out of the woodwork when there were no deaths, but I guess that's ruined now.

Kill the harmless neutral if you wish. I just wish I read my Role PM more closely. :/
 
uh oh, I heard people calling my name.
Ok, i got something a while ago, and dismissed it because Celever was being useful. Now that you say LW was not cleaned, the same can be applied to you
Celever said:
tl dr ...
Cancerous I for one didn't look up RVS and I can't remember ever seeing that. Actually I just checked, it was mentioned once in the first 5 pages and I kinda doubt it will be mentioned past there too much so... yeah I think you're also over speculating to be honest.
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This is way back when I try to press obbmud. While I'm totally cool with people calling me out and all. That number 5 made me comfortable. Because if you did check Twillight Princess NOC, you'll see that RVS was mentioned on the first page (By Aura Guardian), so the number 5 is uncalled for. Looked like you deliberately put it there to make your point more favorable?
As of LW, have not been able to pick up any trace.
Also we should probably assume for the worst setup ( 5 mafias, no doctor/guard).
 
Yeah bad claim. Pacifist can only win if no lynches then mafia doesn't kill anyone, this makes me think of you to be mafia favoured. Force a No Lynch at a LYLO situation via teaming up with mafia, mafia promises not to kill anyone in exchange. This is the most likely scenario since looking at the role list the best bet at us influencing a no death night would be to have the right doctor and have him on the right target, and that has to follow a no lynch day. Village can never fulfill this, mafia has a much easier time. As it stands Ullar is worst case a mafia sided vote during LYLO or best case a fake claiming mafia. (He is kinda like Fool, mafia and fool team up at lylo to lynch fool, both win, just a bit slower, though it also depends when ss would announce LYLO, would it be when mafia+pacifist are one vote away from taking over the vote or would pacifist not be counted, or would pacifist count as a village one, either way he is a risk)

Don't want to hammer though before people have a chance to assess the situation first.
 
In retrospect I should draft the possibilities up better:

Example LYLO disregarding Pacifist:
3 village 2 mafia -> mafia and pacifist can tie(since the tie breaker would be based on changed votes, but there wouldn't be any mafia would rush the no lynch) -> Mafia kills someone and they win(Pacifist kinda has no choice but to comply since otherwise they can't win at all, in the end we are up to the Pacifist's whims)

Example LYLO Pacifist considered village:
2 Village 2 Mafia -> Straight up forced NL -> Mafia can actually just not kill and let Pacifist win too

Exampe LYLO Pacifist considered mafia:
3 village 1 mafia -> If pacifist is considered this then lets fucking lynch him damnit, it might as well be lynching a mafia!

So yeah in like every case where Pacifist lives at LYLO, he fucks us over big time, with being kingmaker in the first example.
 
UllarWarlord said:
Gotta go back to work, but keep in mind that as a neutral I don't have access to scum chat...so how would I 'team up'?
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You suggest it in the open, simple as that, mafia might not trust you, that is possible, but your chances at winning are far better siding with the mafia, since mafia has far greater effect on the day than the village has on the night. Not to mention being revealed means mafia would never no kill now, since not killing after a no lynch essentially kills you and why would they want to eliminate a potential vote that could side with them. You are either a kingmaker who can't win or someone who's win is in the hands of the mafia or you know you are lying, either way a good lynch!
 
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