Mega Pinsir [QC 2/3][Escrito]

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bloop dash

[OVERVIEW]
Possessing a combination of Flying / Fighting coverage, Pinsir-Mega is a unique threat in the Doubles metagame. Access to Feint and powerful Flying STAB let it take advantage of offensive pressure while also supporting hard-hitting teammates. Pinsir sports a decent speed tier, outspeeding base 100s, but underspeeding critical threats such as Latios, Thundurus, and Mega Diancie. It also faces heavy competition from and loses to Talonflame, which has a powerful priority Flying-STAB and a better Aegislash matchup, outclassing Pinsir-Mega in most situations, but lacking Pinsir's power and relative bulk
Pinsir struggles to do meaningful damage outside of Flying STABs - Close Combat is a roll to KO Mega Kangaskhan even with Adamant. Being frail with no relevant resists, many neutral STABs will OHKO it, in addition to being brought down by its multiple critical typing weaknesses such as Flying- or Rock-type coverage

[SET]
name: Offensive Attacker
move 1: Return
move 2: Feint
move 3: Close Combat
move 4: Protect
item: Pinsirite
ability: Hyper Cutter
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Return gets boosted by Aerilate, giving it more damage and making it Flying-Type, letting it kill grasses such as Amoonguss and is a powerful offensive typing in Doubles that is hard to switch into. Feint breaks protect, letting it double as both support for a partner and a high-priority attack. CC hits Heatran/Kang and provides decent neutral coverage for foes that resist Flying, such as Jirachi or Rotom-Wash. Protect lets Pinisir mega evolve safely to a higher speed, and can keep it safe while a partner removes an opposing threat on the field.

Set Details
========
252 Attack and 252 Speed maximizes damage and speed, helping Mega Pinsir function as a hard-hitting physical attacker. While Jolly is used to out-speed max speed base 100s and other notable threats such as Landorus, the damage boost from Adamant can be critical in securing several KOs, such as a roll to KO Mega Kangaskhan and KO'ing Landorus-T if Intimidate is prevented either through coming in after Lando-T is out or taking advantage of Hyper Cutter, which lets you play around Intimidate, particularly from Scrafty/Landorus-Therian. This lets Mega Pinsir either lead into both without losing attack or attack on its Mega Evolve turn without fear of an Intimidate switchin hampering its damage effectiveness.

Usage Tips
========

Apply offensive pressure with Feint: when Mega Pinsir's team has offensive initiative, it can heavily punish opposing Protects. This, combined with preventing opponents from stalling out field conditions, such as Tailwind or Rain, makes it a potent threat when its team has the upper hand. In addition, Feint can hit low-speed megas as they megaevolve to higher speeds such as Mega Diancie or Mega Metagross, exposing them while they're vulnerable. Try to bring Pinsir in where it doesn't have to Protect while it Mega Evolves for a higher speed stat, as this potentially sucks away momentum. Use your partner and proper positioning to get Pinsir into situations where it can hit Return without fear of Electric switchins or getting KOd before it can move by threats such as Keldeo or Talonflame. Be sure to rotate Pinsir out when it's not doing anything such as its bad matchups or when it's weakened by intimidated.

Team Options
========

Mega Pinsir requires heavy support to alleviate its poor matchups. This ncludes Talonflame checks such as Thundurus or Landorus T, Lando-T checks spanning from Azumarill to Deoxys-Attack, checks to Electric types, such as Rhyperior or Amoonguss, pokemon to take out Aegislash such as strong fire attackers (Heatran or Blaziken) or powerful dark-types such as Hydreigon or Hoopa-Unbound. Pinsir also benefits heavily from Tailwind support such as from Zapdos or Suicune is nice because Feint stops people from stalling Tailwind turns.

On the other hand, Pinsir can supplement a team by removing opposing Fighting-types, clearing the way for Fighting-weak pokemon such as Hydreigon or Heatran. Rain teams in general can appreciate a threat that beats Amoonguss, Kyurem-Black, and Ferrothorn in one slot, as these are each common rain checks. Offensive single-target hitters that like breaking Protect such as Deoxys-Attack or Belly Drum Azumarill can avoid Protect counterplay with Pinsir discouraging and opponent from protecting their Pokemon. Spread attackers such as Landorus-Therian or Heatran appreciate how feint breaks wide guard. Pokemon with Fake Out (Weavile, Infernape, Scrafty) can take advantage of fake out and feint having good combined pressure while also giving Mega Pinsir room to take out an opponent.



[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Earthquake does very little damage as it is both non-STAB and weakened by spread reduction, but can hit opposing Heatran for more than Close Combat, picking up the KO. Knock Off helps matchups against Jirachi and Aegislash, but sacrifices one of the main reasons to use Pinsir over Talonflame: its Fighting Coverage. Double-Edge can't be used with feint, but a set of Double-Edge, Earthquake, and Stone Edge can be used to maximize damage and rely on bluffing feint before revealing Double-Edge


Checks and Counters
===================

**Typing Advantage**: Fires types threaten Pinsir easily, examples including Charizard Y and Heatran. Electric-Types resist Pinsir's Flying STAB, while either resisting or taking very little damage from Close Combat, such as in the case of Thundurus or Rotom-Wash. Opposing Rock-Type coverage, such as Mega Diancie or Landorus-Therian, heavily threatens to OHKO Pinsir, while Mega Diancie resists Flying STAB while taking CC neutrally. Steels that aren't weak to Fighting such as Jirachi and Aegislash easily wall Pinsir's coverage.

**Speed**: Pinsir is extremely frail and lacks a high enough speed to make up for it, making it susceptible to fast threats such as Keldeo and Latios while also being especially vulnerable to forms of priority such as Talonflame Brave Bird.

**Intimidates and Burns**: Intimidates and Burns--Landorus-Therian or Rotom-Wash, respectively--heavily cripple Mega Pinsir's damage. While it can play around opposing Intimidate, to a degree, thanks to pre-Mega Evolve Hyper Cutter, an opposing Intimidate that comes in after Mega Pinsir evolves will cut its damage severely.
 
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Checkmater

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also I think tree is coming out with a hot list of mons that need analyses so I might hop on that train during/after this one
 

talkingtree

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Overview doesn't match Stratos' suggestion, QC Reject 1/3


ok fine real check coming yeee

Overview:
  • Literally stop writing it up every time lol I'm glad you caught yourself because I would have made you unwrite it before looking at this :^)
  • You pointed out that it's outclassed by Talon in most situations, which is good, but clarify in which positions it *wouldn't* be outclassed - it's important to point out that Talon is usually better, but someone reading this analysis should be able to figure out whether their team would actually benefit from Mega Pinsir > Talon (off the top of my head, Pinsir helps against Heatran or you have lots of spread attackers b/c Feint that breaks even Aegis' Wide Guard is pretty neato)
  • Mention that its speed tier is decent, not great. It outspeeds the many base 100s (Kang, Garde, Zard), but missing out on Diancie, Latios, Thund etc really hurts, especially when they can all OHKO it
Set:
  • Slash Moxie after Hyper Cutter - if you can bring in Pinsir on a weakened foe and finish it off to get to +1, all of a sudden Feint is actually threatening.
Moves:
  • Return is Mega Pinsir's primary STAB attack due to Aerilate <- sort of the point of Pinsir, so put that in there one way or another
  • Close Combat does hit Heatran and Kang, but also it provides decent neutral coverage with the Flying-type Return, nailing the Rock- and Steel-types that otherwise shrug Pinsir off.
Set Details:
  • Specify which KOes you miss out on with Jolly - I didn't know there were any, and outrunning Jolly Kang/Timid Garde/Lando-I and not risking tie with LO Lando-T seems decently big to me. If there are none that you can find, switch Jolly and Adamant's slash order.
  • Talk about Moxie here since it'll be added in the set. Also, towards the end of the Hyper Cutter bullet point: "without fear of an Intimidate switch-in"
Team Options:
  • Fighting-weak mons like Hydreigon and Heatran like Pinsir's ability to remove their checks
  • Strong spread attackers like Sylv, Garde, and Volc appreciate that Pinsir can break Wide Guard even from Aegis
  • Speed control of some form or another is nice so that it can outspeed the many fast threats that bop it
  • Remove the redirection mention - unless you're trying to make SD work there's no reason to give it a special shoutout
Other Options:
  • Pinsir doesn't get Tailwind lol so take that out
  • EQ is fine here, just point out why it's non-optimal aside from being weak af
  • Double-Edge for more power because you're frail anyway
  • Knock Off if you're really Aegis or Rachi weak
  • Rock Slide if you're especially Zard weak, also catches Thund on the switchin
Checks & Counters:
  • Please expand a little bit on these sections. For example, I get the gist of what you're saying wrt Typing Advantage, but which mons you're picking and how you detail the ways that they beat Pinsir is important to be able to check. Also, add Steels to Typing Advantage b/c Rachi and Aegis are pretty great Mega Pinsir checks
  • Also include in the Speed tag that Mega Pinsir is weak to priority in the form of Brave Bird and Ice Shard
Tag me when implemented so that I can give the C&C section one last look before giving the go ahead for other QC to give checks
 

Checkmater

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ok imo Moxie's retarded compared to hyper cutter, I can't imagine nonmega feint like, hitting anything... Also not worth it by half. Being able to block lando trying to switchin to alleviate your damage is p huge. Especially since Pinsir can actually live a Rock Slide, and you outspeed nonscarf variant

Blocking Gyara intimidate is also p huge

Same with giving Pinsir a hugely better tr/scrafty mu

Wording is still awk on saying Pinsir's strengths compared to talon cuz I don't want to repeat weaknesses that's already in overview, I just said some comparitive stuff check that over plz :)
 

Bughouse

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Rock Slide should never be run on Pinsir

252 Atk Mega Pinsir Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 188-222 (62.8 - 74.2%)
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 165-195 (55.1 - 65.2%)
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 195-229 (65.2 - 76.5%)

252 Atk Mega Pinsir Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 344-408 (115.8 - 137.3%)
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 304-358 (102.3 - 120.5%)
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 357-421 (120.2 - 141.7%)

If your goal is just to hit Thund "hard" on the switch in... as if Return doesn't hit hard enough, you should just use Double Edge, which does more damage than spread, unstabbed, not aerilate boosted 75 bp rock slide.
 

Bughouse

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Double Edge is totally legal on Pinsir. It just can't be used with Quick Attack or Close Combat because of illegalities haha. I don't remember if it can be run with Feint.

(and Double Edge hits Kanga almost exactly as hard as CC, so Pinsir - assuming it's legal with Feint - probably should actually be using spammable Double Edge and EQ together)
 

talkingtree

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ok Bughouse idk where you're quoting from when you say "hard" about hitting Thund because I said "also catches Thund upon switchin". That being said, I should have done calcs, and you're right. Check, take Rock Slide out.

Also, Moxie making Feint not terrible wasn't me saying that Feint would be the way to remove a weakened foe, you could use any attack. Catches sash users like Weavile or Bisharp, as well as anything that *just barely* lives. That being said, with the abundance of Intimidate, Moxie would be more likely to fix the deficit than to actually put Pinsir ahead so go ahead and get rid of it.

In the future, if I suggest something that makes the set not legal, please actually mention it instead of just not implementing it.

You say that Adamant is needed to secure a couple KOes, and then discuss a few rolls gained by the switch. If there's nothing guaranteed or those rolls are low then it's just not worth it tbh. At the very least I'd slash Jolly first.

Add the spread attackers mention that I told you to add in Team Options


Also, I missed something first go through: Since regular Pinsir is significantly slower than Mega, please add something in Usage Tips that says it may need to Protect its first turn on the field to gain its full speed.

Do that^ for 1/3
 

Checkmater

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Sorry if I missed something what made the set not legal that you mentioned? Not rly following here...

Implemented the rest
 

talkingtree

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The point was that it seemed like you knew it wasn't legal and just decided to ignore it entirely. If you actually just missed it then it's no big deal.
 

Checkmater

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o sorry I noticed it and yeah just didn't implement cuz I knew it couldn't be used with feint. I also added a full attacker dedge without feint set, but set could use some revising
anyways yeah sry bout that
 

Bughouse

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Nah pinsir is terrible and should have just one set. It's not worth anyone's time to either write or qc a second set without Feint.

edit: oh doing that in OO is fine lol
 
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talkingtree

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I think he meant that he'd add a suggested set with Double Edge in OO, which is totally fine by me. I'd probably use DEdge / Quick Attack / Close Combat personally, since you get to retain the priority and coverage of the original set while losing utility in exchange for a power increase in both moves.
 

Bughouse

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I think he meant that he'd add a suggested set with Double Edge in OO, which is totally fine by me. I'd probably use DEdge / Quick Attack / Close Combat personally, since you get to retain the priority and coverage of the original set while losing utility in exchange for a power increase in both moves.
the whole problem with DEdge is that it's illegal with QA, CC, and Feint lmao
 

Idyll

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Fix the set name to something appropriate. No, as much as we want to, we are not naming a set as "Qsns is cute" :(
 

Checkmater

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I got all excited and it's not even a check

sigh

I think xzern and shaian both have ongoing promises to check either this or volc, just gently reminding them n~n
 

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