speed ties is the main reason why loads of people refuse to play LC, the main reason why tournament directors were so reluctant to allow LC in SPL, they literally are the single biggest cause of people refusing to play the tier
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Metagame Misdreavus = dead, Fletchling = alive
- Thread starter blarajan
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Spl was before gligar and krow left, so I refuse to accept LC is still about them. Maybe we still have the look of that, but using that as an excuse to ban missy (which as a load of other reasons to be banned) is frankly a waste of time.
Did we really come to argue about how speed ties deter people from LC as an argument for banning misdreavus?
Anyway I've flipped sides because of this convo. I'll post a ton of calcs of missy vs the bulky meta (not even resists to its stab) later.
[13:10:47] Kingmidas: I mean variant of np
[13:10:53] Kingmidas: as sub/taunt np with hp fighting
[13:11:00] Kingmidas: beats everything
[13:11:07] Kingmidas: including porygon if running bj and taunt
[13:11:16] Kingmidas: you need 18 sdef lickitung
[13:11:21] Kingmidas: and no SR up
[13:11:29] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: except that
[13:11:33] Kingmidas: and no wisp
[13:11:36] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: this missy lacks a lot of setup opportunities
[13:11:42] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: and loses a lot of the utility of WoW
[13:11:45] Kingmidas: y
[13:11:56] Kingmidas: that missy is meant to take a hit
[13:12:00] Kingmidas: so it usually runs bj
[13:12:10] Kingmidas: I'm gonna run a calc on missy v missy without eviolite
[13:13:32] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: something people
[13:13:37] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: forget a lot bout HP fighting missy
[13:13:50] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: is that the item makes it a lot more weak to a bunch of threats
[13:13:55] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: like fletchling
[13:13:56] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: timburr
[13:14:03] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: even fucking scraggy
[13:14:18] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: it can't use dgleam vs magnemite anymore
[13:14:21] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: to remove the berry juice
[13:14:42] Kingmidas: true
[13:14:54] Kingmidas: but berry juice beats porygon
[13:15:03] Kingmidas: and p sure you need to run 13 attack lickitung
[13:15:05] Kingmidas: to 2HKO
[13:15:06] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: ... And loses to all of the other threats
[13:15:14] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: yes, beating porygon is nice
[13:15:18] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: but then your sweep is gone
[13:15:24] Kingmidas: it loses to vullaby maybe
[13:15:27] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: because you can't deal with a lot of threats
[13:15:31] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: yeah vullaby too
[13:15:48] Kingmidas: wisp hp fighting then
[13:15:52] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: even things like
[13:15:53] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: larvesta
[13:16:03] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: have an easy time vs bj missy
[13:16:05] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: because you can deal like
[13:16:06] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: 80% damage
[13:16:10] Kingmidas: people overestimate missy's strength
[13:16:12] Kingmidas: tbh
[13:16:24] Kingmidas: it can't OHKO random threats with some bulk and eviolite
[13:16:30] Kingmidas: and yeah like larvesta
[13:16:35] Kingmidas: deals a ton
[13:16:36] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: larvesta easily tanks a hit
[13:16:39] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: from +2 missy
[13:16:43] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: and dish back the damage
[13:16:48] Kingmidas: and can switch into
[13:16:54] Kingmidas: it early game if you want
[13:16:57] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: even random shit like taillow
[13:17:01] Kingmidas: cause it can handle the wisps
[13:17:02] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: have an easy time vs bj missy
[13:17:04] Kingmidas: and hp fightings
[13:17:06] Kingmidas: people may blast
[13:17:09] Kingmidas: yeah I risk
[13:17:11] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: yea
[13:17:12] Kingmidas: the taillow speed tie
[13:17:13] Kingmidas: a lot
[13:17:18] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: and it's not like you can use foo
[13:17:20] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: to handle it
[13:17:22] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: or pawn
[13:17:24] Kingmidas: yeah
[13:17:30] Kingmidas: hm
[13:17:35] Kingmidas: you've changed my mind
[13:17:46] Kingmidas: keep missy free
[13:17:48] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: not even talking about things like riolu
[13:17:55] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: even fucking foo can revenge kill it
[13:17:59] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: because regenerator
[13:18:00] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: helps a lot
[13:18:12] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: why are people treating misdreavus like the fucking holy grail
[13:18:21] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: It's one of LC's greatest pokémon but it has its fair share of problems too
[13:10:53] Kingmidas: as sub/taunt np with hp fighting
[13:11:00] Kingmidas: beats everything
[13:11:07] Kingmidas: including porygon if running bj and taunt
[13:11:16] Kingmidas: you need 18 sdef lickitung
[13:11:21] Kingmidas: and no SR up
[13:11:29] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: except that
[13:11:33] Kingmidas: and no wisp
[13:11:36] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: this missy lacks a lot of setup opportunities
[13:11:42] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: and loses a lot of the utility of WoW
[13:11:45] Kingmidas: y
[13:11:56] Kingmidas: that missy is meant to take a hit
[13:12:00] Kingmidas: so it usually runs bj
[13:12:10] Kingmidas: I'm gonna run a calc on missy v missy without eviolite
[13:13:32] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: something people
[13:13:37] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: forget a lot bout HP fighting missy
[13:13:50] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: is that the item makes it a lot more weak to a bunch of threats
[13:13:55] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: like fletchling
[13:13:56] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: timburr
[13:14:03] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: even fucking scraggy
[13:14:18] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: it can't use dgleam vs magnemite anymore
[13:14:21] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: to remove the berry juice
[13:14:42] Kingmidas: true
[13:14:54] Kingmidas: but berry juice beats porygon
[13:15:03] Kingmidas: and p sure you need to run 13 attack lickitung
[13:15:05] Kingmidas: to 2HKO
[13:15:06] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: ... And loses to all of the other threats
[13:15:14] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: yes, beating porygon is nice
[13:15:18] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: but then your sweep is gone
[13:15:24] Kingmidas: it loses to vullaby maybe
[13:15:27] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: because you can't deal with a lot of threats
[13:15:31] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: yeah vullaby too
[13:15:48] Kingmidas: wisp hp fighting then
[13:15:52] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: even things like
[13:15:53] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: larvesta
[13:16:03] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: have an easy time vs bj missy
[13:16:05] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: because you can deal like
[13:16:06] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: 80% damage
[13:16:10] Kingmidas: people overestimate missy's strength
[13:16:12] Kingmidas: tbh
[13:16:24] Kingmidas: it can't OHKO random threats with some bulk and eviolite
[13:16:30] Kingmidas: and yeah like larvesta
[13:16:35] Kingmidas: deals a ton
[13:16:36] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: larvesta easily tanks a hit
[13:16:39] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: from +2 missy
[13:16:43] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: and dish back the damage
[13:16:48] Kingmidas: and can switch into
[13:16:54] Kingmidas: it early game if you want
[13:16:57] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: even random shit like taillow
[13:17:01] Kingmidas: cause it can handle the wisps
[13:17:02] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: have an easy time vs bj missy
[13:17:04] Kingmidas: and hp fightings
[13:17:06] Kingmidas: people may blast
[13:17:09] Kingmidas: yeah I risk
[13:17:11] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: yea
[13:17:12] Kingmidas: the taillow speed tie
[13:17:13] Kingmidas: a lot
[13:17:18] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: and it's not like you can use foo
[13:17:20] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: to handle it
[13:17:22] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: or pawn
[13:17:24] Kingmidas: yeah
[13:17:30] Kingmidas: hm
[13:17:35] Kingmidas: you've changed my mind
[13:17:46] Kingmidas: keep missy free
[13:17:48] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: not even talking about things like riolu
[13:17:55] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: even fucking foo can revenge kill it
[13:17:59] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: because regenerator
[13:18:00] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: helps a lot
[13:18:12] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: why are people treating misdreavus like the fucking holy grail
[13:18:21] +apt-get ⒶⒻⓀ: It's one of LC's greatest pokémon but it has its fair share of problems too
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i was just referring to question 3 in the OP. There are plenty of other reasons as to why Missy is broken, and I and many other people have listed them. But the question in the OP refers to people being deterred from playing LC I was just pointing something out. take what you want from it, i realise that we shouldn't be banning something just because of that but clearly blara believes it's an important thing otherwise he wouldn't have asked that question.
Honestly Missy does keep newer players from playing, but that issue is from the NP set and not this BJ Subtaunt shit that's going around.
Frankly, I don't even really see the appeal in subjuice. It beats Porygon at the cost of losing to much more. Is it really worth running that when Porygon is easily handled by Missy's most common teammates?
Frankly, I don't even really see the appeal in subjuice. It beats Porygon at the cost of losing to much more. Is it really worth running that when Porygon is easily handled by Missy's most common teammates?
All offensive threats need to be accounted for in team building, not just Fletchling. If they didn't need to be accounted for, then they wouldn't be very threatening, or even relevant, at all.
Also, what do you mean by "limiting player interaction"? It's not like Fletchling can instantly end every single game by clicking a single button; there are so many available checks to Fletchling that using Acrobatics is unlikely to get you very far, so other moves need to be used as well, and that's where possibilities for counterplay come in.
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Aerow, I think he means that its the sort of 50/50 you get with Aegislash. Either you take a priority hit hard, or you lose momentum, which really sucks.
On the topic of missy keeping players from having fun with LC, i'd agree. The 19 speed tier is a real bitch, but if you take out missy, the meaningful ties that REALLY matter are gone. The 19 speed tier almost kept LC out of SPL as well, so there's that too. I was originally against missy being banned, but now... I think it should leave. It would be best for the tier.
Fletchling on the other hand... I'm not quite sure. I think the illusion of it being so godlike is because of how well it handles the oh-so-powerful fighting types in the tier. The way it "gets around its checks" are SO gimmicky, I don't even think its worth mentioning (bar overheat).
On the topic of missy keeping players from having fun with LC, i'd agree. The 19 speed tier is a real bitch, but if you take out missy, the meaningful ties that REALLY matter are gone. The 19 speed tier almost kept LC out of SPL as well, so there's that too. I was originally against missy being banned, but now... I think it should leave. It would be best for the tier.
Fletchling on the other hand... I'm not quite sure. I think the illusion of it being so godlike is because of how well it handles the oh-so-powerful fighting types in the tier. The way it "gets around its checks" are SO gimmicky, I don't even think its worth mentioning (bar overheat).
What I am trying to say is that with Fletch it is more extreme a case than with other threats because of its best attacks all getting priority. It makes it harder to revenge kill and and check as opposed to some of the other big threats in the tier which can be more easily. It requires hard counters more than them because it is harder to play around.
What I meant by limiting player interaction is similar to that. By having it's strongest offensive move have priority it limits the number of ways it can be answered, limiting the number of options a player has to deal with it and therefore limiting player interaction. I do suppose that I came off as more extreme in my accessment of it as such though. It doesn't end every single game by clicking a single button, but it is still a bit easier to use than most other pokemon is more what I'm trying to say.
First off its stabs are getting priority so 1 move or 2 (gonna be roost if 2) on a moveset is priority, the rest are coverage and nearly as important. And a good mon requires checks, that doesn't make it OP, frankly some of its answers are awesome mons in the metagame anyway.
I really don't think Speed ties should be a reason for banning things... top threats in LC are always going to be fast Pokemon since everything is so HO. The problem with Misdreavus, is that you patch a hole and another one opens up, meaning if you check some things by carrying Berry Juice, Taunt or HP Fighting, you end up losing to other things, but then again, the issue at hand is that you carry a dedicated check to Misdreavus and it gets fucked over by one of Misdreavus' options, you could be in a lot of trouble, losing a lot of momentum or having your check beat completely, forcing you to either run a secondary check or work your way around her in the battle if your check gets crippled or something. Sadly, that point is heavily luck-reliant since Swirlix used to do this, except the penalty was getting your whole team swept because of a different set, whereas Misdreavus will punish you with losing your check and another Pokemon or sometimes it may be able to sweep you, if it gets the opportunity (Unless you set up a win condition before she pops up).
I heard someone mentioned Grass types being hurt by Fletchling's presence, and that is completely preposterous. Chespin is not saying in on ANY Flying-type ever. Foongus is already really good. Ferroseed doesn't care about Fletchling, and has the ability to hurt it with Iron Barbs unless it has Overheat. Cottonee is still amazing support and it can Memento in Fletchling's face as it tries to use Acrobatics or U-turn, leaving it as setup fodder for your sweeper. The only grass type truly hurt by Fletchling's presence is Snover because... Snover runs a Choice Scarf set, which even in the case of a 1v1 with Stealth Rock on both sides, Bulky Fletchling will be able to take Ice Shard from it and simply kill it with Acrobatics. Also, don't get me started on Fighting types because there's about 5 Fighting types that are very good in the LC metagame and Fletchling isn't deterring them from fulfilling their job.
I heard someone mentioned Grass types being hurt by Fletchling's presence, and that is completely preposterous. Chespin is not saying in on ANY Flying-type ever. Foongus is already really good. Ferroseed doesn't care about Fletchling, and has the ability to hurt it with Iron Barbs unless it has Overheat. Cottonee is still amazing support and it can Memento in Fletchling's face as it tries to use Acrobatics or U-turn, leaving it as setup fodder for your sweeper. The only grass type truly hurt by Fletchling's presence is Snover because... Snover runs a Choice Scarf set, which even in the case of a 1v1 with Stealth Rock on both sides, Bulky Fletchling will be able to take Ice Shard from it and simply kill it with Acrobatics. Also, don't get me started on Fighting types because there's about 5 Fighting types that are very good in the LC metagame and Fletchling isn't deterring them from fulfilling their job.
The question is if it's unbalanced or broken, not if it causes speed ties or 50/50s, or some part of the metagame. It may be a possible argument that it lessens the skill of the game. However, if people really hate the idea of 50/50s, why don't they just find other ways of getting around it. Scarfers are great revenge killers and its not like Misdreavus is gonna sweep your team if you fail a 50/50. Speed ties are a thing in every metagame, its just more common in LC because of lack of speed creeping (due to the Level 5 rules). If you really wanna put more emphasis on teambuilding you have to do things like change the level cap (which is dumb) rather than just ban the current cause of it. It's not even that big of a deal if you lose a 50/50 against misdreavus, given its huge-ass longevity issues, i just don't see the fact that it imposes medium-risk/medium-reward 50/50s something that makes it unbalanced.
I think anyone who has played LC for at least the duration of the suspect test can realize Misdreavus is not broken. Yes, it does have amazing stats, amazing movepool for support or offensive coverage, great typing (offensively), but as most of us know, she doesn't live that long, so she either sweeps your team if she gets the chance (which can sometimes cause you to rely on speed ties to beat her) or simply cripple/damage a few Pokemon before dying. But still, she's not borderline broken like some of our other suspects, which could cause you to lose the battle on a wrong guess, or simply power through their checks with brute force.
I feel it's better if we look at Misdreavus' presence in the metagame to determine if she's really unhealthy for the metagame. We've already discussed a few aspects of her such as how she shadows every other ghost not called Gastly (And only because Gastly has 2 things she can't adapt to, stats and STAB), she can also fulfill a few small supportive niches for the team, often finding her a spot on teams in the blink of an eye, and she has sweeping potential that can force you to rely on 50/50s for you to break her (this only happens once your check gets taken down by one of Missy's options). I want to hear some of her positive influences on the metagame, though...
Max Carvalho
Que os jogos comecem
Wow dsr said everything. The anti-ban side pretty much made it clear tha Missy isn't op so we should see its presence in the meta. Not only it shadows other Ghosts but also centralizate the meta so much that some sets / mons are used just to be a semi-reliable switch in to Misdreavus (some of them have their merits, but the main task is the same. Misdreavus having an unhealthy presence in the meta is ban worthy imo, and I doubt Misdreavus brings any positive influences as well. Misdreavus creates a heavy centralization, shadows some Ghosts that aren't trash as some people may state them as.
Missy's presence in the metagame? 19 Speed, 18 SpA, Nasty Plot, hits the entire meta for neutral damage minimum, has great support moves to compliment her already amazing sweeping capabilities, forces switches and can actually take advantage of those forced switches...it actually encourages people to use Knock Off on multiple pokes just so they have an easy answer for it. idk man, that's quite the presence to me.
Mons will run knock off anyway, because its a move with BP and effect too good to give up. Its presence is big because of its support movepool stab and coverage, but it really isn't hard to handle, its an awesome sweeper, but usually a sweeper is gonna take out a mon before going down, thats just how strong mons go.
The only problem I have with this is that you mentioned Missy's sweeping capabilities, which we already stated are great but not enough to call her Overpowered at all. Also people will use Knock Off regardless of Misdreavus' presence because Knock Off is already a solid move, crippling walls and nullifying Berry Juice. But how she forces switches is something that pretty much any offensive Pokemon will accomplish, or else it wouldn't pose a threat, thus making it... non-offensive? I already mentioned what I believe to be the most negative qualities in my last post, so...
Closing this thread. Thank you all very much for participating and contributing, I am very happy with how this discussion thread went. You guys managed to change my mind multiple times throughout, which has not happened once yet. However, that makes it very difficult to choose council members. If you were not chosen, I am sorry, but that does not mean I did not appreciate your contributions and presence in the thread.
Great job guys! I am currently deciding on council members with macle and will post when I do. Please try to get your votes in as quickly as possible. Remember, as always, your votes need to be accompanied with paragraphs.
Great job guys! I am currently deciding on council members with macle and will post when I do. Please try to get your votes in as quickly as possible. Remember, as always, your votes need to be accompanied with paragraphs.
The council members are as followed:
macle Rowan apt-get prem Goddess Briyella
New permanent members:
fatty blizzardy
Rotating members for this round:
Superpowerdude The Avalanches Artemisa Obvious Power Corporal Levi
Thank you to everyone who participated. This was an incredibly difficult round to choose council and you can be assured 100% that we did not ignore or neglect any of your contributions. We appreciate everyone that posted and hope you will continue participating in Little Cup. It took us over an hour and a half to choose council members, and we chose out of about thirty people. That means there were about thirty participants in the thread who were good enough to have us consider them. That's absolutely amazing. Your contributions weren't forgotten, there were just so many positive contributors.
It will take 7 votes out of 12 to ban either suspect. Submit your votes to me and macle in PM with paragraphs supporting your reasoning.
macle Rowan apt-get prem Goddess Briyella
New permanent members:
fatty blizzardy
Rotating members for this round:
Superpowerdude The Avalanches Artemisa Obvious Power Corporal Levi
Thank you to everyone who participated. This was an incredibly difficult round to choose council and you can be assured 100% that we did not ignore or neglect any of your contributions. We appreciate everyone that posted and hope you will continue participating in Little Cup. It took us over an hour and a half to choose council members, and we chose out of about thirty people. That means there were about thirty participants in the thread who were good enough to have us consider them. That's absolutely amazing. Your contributions weren't forgotten, there were just so many positive contributors.
It will take 7 votes out of 12 to ban either suspect. Submit your votes to me and macle in PM with paragraphs supporting your reasoning.
Misdreavus has been banned from Little Cup with a vote of 11-1. Fletchling is alive with a vote of 4-8. Attached are the council responses.
Misdreavus: do not ban
I find that misdreavus is one of the best pokémon in the meta. However, it does not warrant a ban. Its Nasty Plot sets usually come in two variants: eviolite dazzling gleam and sub berry juice + HP fighting. While the former has trouble with all kinds of bulky pokémon, like Porygon, and has difficulty setting up, the latter gives up dazzling gleam's sweeping potential (being unable to KO fighting types suck). Berry Juice especially has problems with bulky pokémon like Larvesta / Timburr, who easily take a hit and KO with a powerful STAB / super effective move.
Misdreavus' support sets are incredible. However, I do not feel they warrant a ban.
Fletchling: do not ban
Fletchling is one of the best cleaners in the meta. base 110 flying-type priority attack is incredible. However, it has problems with all kind of pokémon, like rock-types (Archen / Tirtouga / Omanyte / etc), Steel-types (pawniard, Magnemite, etc), and bulky pokémon that can take a +2 acrobatics and threaten fletchling (porygon, spritzee.....). Yes, it can get around some of them with coverage, but it usually gives up its sweeping potential in order to do that: while an unboosted acrobatics is going to hurt, it's not enough to KO most offensive pokémon in one hit. Yes, it's an incredible check to a lot of shit and can easily clean lategame with things weakened, but it can be checked rather easily. Do not ban
I find that misdreavus is one of the best pokémon in the meta. However, it does not warrant a ban. Its Nasty Plot sets usually come in two variants: eviolite dazzling gleam and sub berry juice + HP fighting. While the former has trouble with all kinds of bulky pokémon, like Porygon, and has difficulty setting up, the latter gives up dazzling gleam's sweeping potential (being unable to KO fighting types suck). Berry Juice especially has problems with bulky pokémon like Larvesta / Timburr, who easily take a hit and KO with a powerful STAB / super effective move.
Misdreavus' support sets are incredible. However, I do not feel they warrant a ban.
Fletchling: do not ban
Fletchling is one of the best cleaners in the meta. base 110 flying-type priority attack is incredible. However, it has problems with all kind of pokémon, like rock-types (Archen / Tirtouga / Omanyte / etc), Steel-types (pawniard, Magnemite, etc), and bulky pokémon that can take a +2 acrobatics and threaten fletchling (porygon, spritzee.....). Yes, it can get around some of them with coverage, but it usually gives up its sweeping potential in order to do that: while an unboosted acrobatics is going to hurt, it's not enough to KO most offensive pokémon in one hit. Yes, it's an incredible check to a lot of shit and can easily clean lategame with things weakened, but it can be checked rather easily. Do not ban
Missy - Wide movepool both offensive and defensive is too much to handle in this current meta. Reaches 19 speed and can beat almost every single counter/check without losing any coverage. Can abuse eviolite / BJ / LO extremely wellto make it an efficient spin blocking wall or a good sweeper. (TL;DR version).
Ban Missy
Fletchling - Is best used when it is itemless. You have to keep SR out of the field and have to be at 100% almost all the time to avoid being KO'd. That's why most of the time it doesn't do anything but revenge or sweep. Despite the things it "forces" it is at risk from being severely hurt my any stab neutral move, so even a set up isn't always guaranteed. Another big thing, the only thing that gets Priority is Flying moves. Not u turn / overheat / return / steel wing / etc, so the soread of Fletchling is very crucial. If you add speed, your risk of being ko'd increases. If you add more bulk you will be outsped by things that resist and will be force to hit certain things on switch (Ex 13 speed Fletch w/ Overheat vs 15 speed Magnemite) to do any significant damage. Even with Diglett there are still mons capable of taking on Fletch outside of Archen / Chinchou.
Keep Fletchling
Ban Missy
Fletchling - Is best used when it is itemless. You have to keep SR out of the field and have to be at 100% almost all the time to avoid being KO'd. That's why most of the time it doesn't do anything but revenge or sweep. Despite the things it "forces" it is at risk from being severely hurt my any stab neutral move, so even a set up isn't always guaranteed. Another big thing, the only thing that gets Priority is Flying moves. Not u turn / overheat / return / steel wing / etc, so the soread of Fletchling is very crucial. If you add speed, your risk of being ko'd increases. If you add more bulk you will be outsped by things that resist and will be force to hit certain things on switch (Ex 13 speed Fletch w/ Overheat vs 15 speed Magnemite) to do any significant damage. Even with Diglett there are still mons capable of taking on Fletch outside of Archen / Chinchou.
Keep Fletchling
FREE FLETCHLING
At the current time, i feel there isn't enough evidence to ban fletchling. There are multiple checks / counters to it. I feel a possible look into trapping moves could help solve the problems.
BAN Missy
With amazing bulk, speed and special attack, and movepool (though if it got a better fighting move...), i feel that missy is broken. With the variety of moves, theres are no Pokemon that can switch in safely. Also blessed with 3 immunities and no being weak to entry hazards, Missy can switch in often against the majority of the metagame and start piercing holes into the opponent's teams
At the current time, i feel there isn't enough evidence to ban fletchling. There are multiple checks / counters to it. I feel a possible look into trapping moves could help solve the problems.
BAN Missy
With amazing bulk, speed and special attack, and movepool (though if it got a better fighting move...), i feel that missy is broken. With the variety of moves, theres are no Pokemon that can switch in safely. Also blessed with 3 immunities and no being weak to entry hazards, Missy can switch in often against the majority of the metagame and start piercing holes into the opponent's teams
Misdreavus
I am pro-ban for Misdreavus. 19 Speed, 85 base Special Attack, and Nasty Plot make it much too offensively threatening for most of Little Cup to handle. It is the main driving force behind the increased usage of Choice Scarf Pawniard, a whole set designed mainly to punish Misdreavus after it gets a kill. It has no solid switch-ins except Porygon (Stunky gets burned and people seem to forget that) and it gets screwed by any Trick + Choice item variant. To be as fast and strong as it is, it also has the bulk to put up with multiple neutral hits in most cases, and the prevalence of Knock Off is not enough to balance it. It's not nearly as bad for the metagame as Murkrow was, but it's up there.
Fletchling
I am pro-ban for Fletchling as well. A 110 Base Power priority attack with STAB and no drawback (except that you have to be itemless, but Knock Off is everywhere, making everything itemless anyway) is entirely too much for Little Cup and should be disallowed. The additional ability to double this power via Swords Dance while taking advantage of the pressure Fletchling applies only makes this worse, and Fletchling has the bulk while itemless to take most neutral hits to get the boost off if the opponent does not switch out of fear and opts to attack instead. It can't even be countered because it can U-turn out of any Flying resist that switches in and then pivot out to a check that traps or puts pressure on the player's Fletchling answer. It has too many power positions without enough detriment to balance it. Fletchling is unhealthy for Little Cup and needs to go.
I am pro-ban for Misdreavus. 19 Speed, 85 base Special Attack, and Nasty Plot make it much too offensively threatening for most of Little Cup to handle. It is the main driving force behind the increased usage of Choice Scarf Pawniard, a whole set designed mainly to punish Misdreavus after it gets a kill. It has no solid switch-ins except Porygon (Stunky gets burned and people seem to forget that) and it gets screwed by any Trick + Choice item variant. To be as fast and strong as it is, it also has the bulk to put up with multiple neutral hits in most cases, and the prevalence of Knock Off is not enough to balance it. It's not nearly as bad for the metagame as Murkrow was, but it's up there.
Fletchling
I am pro-ban for Fletchling as well. A 110 Base Power priority attack with STAB and no drawback (except that you have to be itemless, but Knock Off is everywhere, making everything itemless anyway) is entirely too much for Little Cup and should be disallowed. The additional ability to double this power via Swords Dance while taking advantage of the pressure Fletchling applies only makes this worse, and Fletchling has the bulk while itemless to take most neutral hits to get the boost off if the opponent does not switch out of fear and opts to attack instead. It can't even be countered because it can U-turn out of any Flying resist that switches in and then pivot out to a check that traps or puts pressure on the player's Fletchling answer. It has too many power positions without enough detriment to balance it. Fletchling is unhealthy for Little Cup and needs to go.
Misdreavus->ban
Misdreavus i feel is broken because it is literally just too good at everything it does. there is no situation where misdreavus is bad, it just has way too many options to theoretcially get passed all of its checks or support the rest of the team. while it might not always sweep someones team, it isa very potent and is evry good at distrupting anything someone would like to do because 19 speed and just amazing other stats prevent it from being ohkoed and let it kill back.
Fletchling-> no ban
Basicalyl fletchling is not the problem. when people talk about fletchling, they discussed how it needs a sd to sweep or its not very effective, and that it has a lot of checks if diglett did not exist. Fletchling is very managable with a lot of pokemon who are just not bad by any means, they are just ruined by diglett who prevents the opponent from doing anything. its not particularly strong, not particularly bulky and has no real qualityies that make it bannable outside of free strong priority.
Misdreavus i feel is broken because it is literally just too good at everything it does. there is no situation where misdreavus is bad, it just has way too many options to theoretcially get passed all of its checks or support the rest of the team. while it might not always sweep someones team, it isa very potent and is evry good at distrupting anything someone would like to do because 19 speed and just amazing other stats prevent it from being ohkoed and let it kill back.
Fletchling-> no ban
Basicalyl fletchling is not the problem. when people talk about fletchling, they discussed how it needs a sd to sweep or its not very effective, and that it has a lot of checks if diglett did not exist. Fletchling is very managable with a lot of pokemon who are just not bad by any means, they are just ruined by diglett who prevents the opponent from doing anything. its not particularly strong, not particularly bulky and has no real qualityies that make it bannable outside of free strong priority.
BAN MISSY
19 speed along along with great bulk allows it to set up risk free, and break the opposing team, almost forcing you to run scarf Pawn or something similar. Any 'counter' is not safe, as discussed in the thread since it can easily get round them using any of Dazzling Gleam, Hidden Power Fighting, Will-O-Wisp, Substitute, Taunt, and Destiny Bond. You can only really check it, so nothing is safe to switch in for fear of being crippled/taken out.
SAVE FLETCH
Before the thread I was pro-ban for this, but now I've changed my mind and think it's manageable. It has plenty of counters, and even when paired with Diglett, it can be played around. I don't feel comfortable banning Fletchling when it's quite easily dealt with and it struggles to break through almost all defensive pokemon - you don't even need a Flying resist to counter it, if you just use something physical bulky. As for more offensive teams, Fletchling can be worn down with Stealth Rock, and it is also set up bait for some of the best set-up sweepers in the tier, like Tirtouga and Omanyte. Yes, Fletchling is good, but it's not got the same ability to get round its counters as all the other suspects we've had.
19 speed along along with great bulk allows it to set up risk free, and break the opposing team, almost forcing you to run scarf Pawn or something similar. Any 'counter' is not safe, as discussed in the thread since it can easily get round them using any of Dazzling Gleam, Hidden Power Fighting, Will-O-Wisp, Substitute, Taunt, and Destiny Bond. You can only really check it, so nothing is safe to switch in for fear of being crippled/taken out.
SAVE FLETCH
Before the thread I was pro-ban for this, but now I've changed my mind and think it's manageable. It has plenty of counters, and even when paired with Diglett, it can be played around. I don't feel comfortable banning Fletchling when it's quite easily dealt with and it struggles to break through almost all defensive pokemon - you don't even need a Flying resist to counter it, if you just use something physical bulky. As for more offensive teams, Fletchling can be worn down with Stealth Rock, and it is also set up bait for some of the best set-up sweepers in the tier, like Tirtouga and Omanyte. Yes, Fletchling is good, but it's not got the same ability to get round its counters as all the other suspects we've had.
fletchling: ban
despite not being originally thought of as much of a threat early xy lc, fletchling definetly cemented itself as one of the most broken threats to date in my opinion. having a reliable, strong flying priority is simply amazing in lc, and having sd to back it up just makes it infinitely harder to defend against. priority acro means it p much has no chance of being revenged, so walling it is the only way to really handle. the problem is that fletchling's checks are flying resists that have little to no way of recovering off damage, and are consequently worn down quite easily with atks + uturn. not to mention that fletch has the option of running coverage in the form of hp grass and overheat to put even more pressure on potential checks. fletchling morphs the metagame into an unhealthy state where there is an over-reliance on specific mons to beat it, with no guarantee that they actually will. it's pretty much the best revenge killer, sweeper, and scout in the tier all wrapped into one that culminates into an offensive onslaught that lc would be better off not having to bear.
misdreavus: ban
misdreavus is a slightly tougher case to handle to me even though her bst and dominance over the generations would say otherwise. in this metagame, though, there are some key differences that give me half a mind to say it's actually quite manageable. knock off had to of been one of the worst changes missy has had to endure, seeing as fighters and other random mons can actually turn into fairly good missy checks, or even counters. that said, though, the ghost buff and the addition of dazzling gleam has continued to make sure that missy is just as much a threat as it always has been, if not more. it was never meant to tank dark attacks anyways, and as long as it stays as far away from them as possible, it can still do unrecoverable damage to a team very consistently. it's arsenal of great speed, great attacking type and offenses, and good bulk / typing allows it to fulfill so many rolls on a team, similar to fletchling, without even thinking twice. it's so easy to throw a misdreavus on a team and go to work without having to try at all, leaving the metagame skewed and stagnant. its power, utility, and overall dominance simply shouldn't be welcome if we are trying to achieve a fun and competitive lc.
despite not being originally thought of as much of a threat early xy lc, fletchling definetly cemented itself as one of the most broken threats to date in my opinion. having a reliable, strong flying priority is simply amazing in lc, and having sd to back it up just makes it infinitely harder to defend against. priority acro means it p much has no chance of being revenged, so walling it is the only way to really handle. the problem is that fletchling's checks are flying resists that have little to no way of recovering off damage, and are consequently worn down quite easily with atks + uturn. not to mention that fletch has the option of running coverage in the form of hp grass and overheat to put even more pressure on potential checks. fletchling morphs the metagame into an unhealthy state where there is an over-reliance on specific mons to beat it, with no guarantee that they actually will. it's pretty much the best revenge killer, sweeper, and scout in the tier all wrapped into one that culminates into an offensive onslaught that lc would be better off not having to bear.
misdreavus: ban
misdreavus is a slightly tougher case to handle to me even though her bst and dominance over the generations would say otherwise. in this metagame, though, there are some key differences that give me half a mind to say it's actually quite manageable. knock off had to of been one of the worst changes missy has had to endure, seeing as fighters and other random mons can actually turn into fairly good missy checks, or even counters. that said, though, the ghost buff and the addition of dazzling gleam has continued to make sure that missy is just as much a threat as it always has been, if not more. it was never meant to tank dark attacks anyways, and as long as it stays as far away from them as possible, it can still do unrecoverable damage to a team very consistently. it's arsenal of great speed, great attacking type and offenses, and good bulk / typing allows it to fulfill so many rolls on a team, similar to fletchling, without even thinking twice. it's so easy to throw a misdreavus on a team and go to work without having to try at all, leaving the metagame skewed and stagnant. its power, utility, and overall dominance simply shouldn't be welcome if we are trying to achieve a fun and competitive lc.
I don't believe Fletchling to be broken, and there is practically no argument that it is anti-fun or driving users away from Little Cup. My argument to it not being broken essentially boils down to a couple main reasons. The first one being that there are an incredible number or Fletchling checks and a vast amount of them function very well outside of just checking Fletchling. All of Fletchling's methods of getting around these checks are very lackluster and have large downsides. Secondly, it is often accused of limiting teambuilding. There is a vast amount of pokemon that can still flourish in today's metagame, even with the presence of and being weak to Fletchling. All offensive threats require a check, and Fletchling is no different. Lastly, all of Fletchling stats pale in comparison to other prevalent pokemon and as such, can be exploited. Due to the low defensive stats and inability to use an eviolite, it struggles to switch into battle and a weakness to Stealth Rock only compounds this. The low attack stat is also very exploitable, meaning pokemon that are just naturally bulky can easily check Fletchling. To sum up briefly, I don't believe Fletchling should be considered broken or frustrating to play against, thus it should stay in the LC metagame.
I believe Misdreavus to be an entire different monster than Fletchling. Its huge innate bulk, impressive offensive stats, and wide array of coverage options allow it to be an extremely potent sweeper. There are no surefire counters to Misdreavus and any pokemon you switch into Misdreavus can be broken through, as well as the amount of viable Misdreavus checks being far fewer than another offensive threat such as Fletchling. Not only is it an incredible sweeper, but it also has access to a wide variety of support options including, but not limited to, Will-o-Wisp, Taunt, Destiny Bond, and Memento. Even it's typing and ability assists in sweeping and supporting potential because of it's triple immunity and ability to spinblock. This allows Misdreavus to find many opportunities to switch into the battle, which is important because if Misdreavus has the right set, you may be forced to sack a pokemon every time it comes into play. On the whole, Misdreavus is too strong as an offensive threat for the metagame to handle and it's supporting options only make it harder to deal with.
I believe Misdreavus to be an entire different monster than Fletchling. Its huge innate bulk, impressive offensive stats, and wide array of coverage options allow it to be an extremely potent sweeper. There are no surefire counters to Misdreavus and any pokemon you switch into Misdreavus can be broken through, as well as the amount of viable Misdreavus checks being far fewer than another offensive threat such as Fletchling. Not only is it an incredible sweeper, but it also has access to a wide variety of support options including, but not limited to, Will-o-Wisp, Taunt, Destiny Bond, and Memento. Even it's typing and ability assists in sweeping and supporting potential because of it's triple immunity and ability to spinblock. This allows Misdreavus to find many opportunities to switch into the battle, which is important because if Misdreavus has the right set, you may be forced to sack a pokemon every time it comes into play. On the whole, Misdreavus is too strong as an offensive threat for the metagame to handle and it's supporting options only make it harder to deal with.
Fletchling:
Due to having priority on a very strong attack, Fletchling is naturally the best revenge killer in the metagame. The amount of Pokemon and playstyles it neuters is pretty staggering. It can easily force momentum onto its side since it will pretty much always go first. It causes weird "50/50s" that are actually unfairly tipped to Fletchling's side due to its priority. While I don't think Fletchling's offensive sets are broken, I do believe it has an unhealthy effect on the metagame.
Vote: ban
Misdreavus:
For awhile I didn't think it was broken, but after re-reading the thread I think I changed my mind, yet again. Its offensive sets can easily get around its counters, and so it sometimes forces you to run more than one. Its pretty bulky, too , so with a Berry Juice and no defensive evs it can still turn most neutral attacks into 3KOs, while it easily sets-up and tries to pull a sweep. I do think we should consider Rowan's point about the speed ties as well. I want LC to be fun for everyone, and if a Pokemon is deterring people from playing, then I don't think it should stay.
Vote: ban
Due to having priority on a very strong attack, Fletchling is naturally the best revenge killer in the metagame. The amount of Pokemon and playstyles it neuters is pretty staggering. It can easily force momentum onto its side since it will pretty much always go first. It causes weird "50/50s" that are actually unfairly tipped to Fletchling's side due to its priority. While I don't think Fletchling's offensive sets are broken, I do believe it has an unhealthy effect on the metagame.
Vote: ban
Misdreavus:
For awhile I didn't think it was broken, but after re-reading the thread I think I changed my mind, yet again. Its offensive sets can easily get around its counters, and so it sometimes forces you to run more than one. Its pretty bulky, too , so with a Berry Juice and no defensive evs it can still turn most neutral attacks into 3KOs, while it easily sets-up and tries to pull a sweep. I do think we should consider Rowan's point about the speed ties as well. I want LC to be fun for everyone, and if a Pokemon is deterring people from playing, then I don't think it should stay.
Vote: ban
Misdreavus - Ban
Misdreavus has the highest BST in LC, placing it among the fastest, bulkiest, and most powerful Pokemon in the tier, granting it plenty of opportunities to get into play and wreak havoc. On top of this, it has access to excellent coverage moves, allowing it to repeatedly and reliably break through would-be checks and counters. Misdreavus's excellent STAB allows it to make do with just one coverage move, severely limiting each offensive Misdreavus set's list of checks and counters, and rendering offensive Misdreavus as a whole entirely uncounterable. Misdreavus also has a plethora of support options on top of its offensive capabilities, meaning its mere existence often leaves many other Pokemon outclassed. Misdreavus has a multitude of qualities that make it easily comparable to previously banned Pokemon such as Gligar, and, as such, is not an ideal addition to the metagame.
Fletchling - Do Not Ban
Although Fletchling's priority STAB Acrobatics is an enormous boon, its numerous shortcomings prevent it from being outright broken, many of which are a result of its mediocre stats. Its incredibly low statistical bulk, on top of its inability to hold Eviolite if it is to utilize Acrobatics to its full extent, makes it incredibly difficult to get into play. Even once it is in play, it often cannot even OHKO Eviolite-holding Pokemon that are weak to Acrobatics due to its low offensive stats. Fletchling's coverage options tend to be either weak or inconsistent, and will often fail to actually cover key checks to Fletchling, in part due to the sheer number of viable Fletchling checks present in the metagame, once again courtesy of its low stats. Although Fletchling is undoubtedly a wonderful Pokemon, it doesn't seem to be any more metagame-defining than other top offensive threats, as demonstrated by how many Fletchling-weak Pokemon continue to maintain their positions as very notable threats.
Misdreavus has the highest BST in LC, placing it among the fastest, bulkiest, and most powerful Pokemon in the tier, granting it plenty of opportunities to get into play and wreak havoc. On top of this, it has access to excellent coverage moves, allowing it to repeatedly and reliably break through would-be checks and counters. Misdreavus's excellent STAB allows it to make do with just one coverage move, severely limiting each offensive Misdreavus set's list of checks and counters, and rendering offensive Misdreavus as a whole entirely uncounterable. Misdreavus also has a plethora of support options on top of its offensive capabilities, meaning its mere existence often leaves many other Pokemon outclassed. Misdreavus has a multitude of qualities that make it easily comparable to previously banned Pokemon such as Gligar, and, as such, is not an ideal addition to the metagame.
Fletchling - Do Not Ban
Although Fletchling's priority STAB Acrobatics is an enormous boon, its numerous shortcomings prevent it from being outright broken, many of which are a result of its mediocre stats. Its incredibly low statistical bulk, on top of its inability to hold Eviolite if it is to utilize Acrobatics to its full extent, makes it incredibly difficult to get into play. Even once it is in play, it often cannot even OHKO Eviolite-holding Pokemon that are weak to Acrobatics due to its low offensive stats. Fletchling's coverage options tend to be either weak or inconsistent, and will often fail to actually cover key checks to Fletchling, in part due to the sheer number of viable Fletchling checks present in the metagame, once again courtesy of its low stats. Although Fletchling is undoubtedly a wonderful Pokemon, it doesn't seem to be any more metagame-defining than other top offensive threats, as demonstrated by how many Fletchling-weak Pokemon continue to maintain their positions as very notable threats.
Ban Misdreavus In summary, it is just to strong for the tier it can run a lot of different sets to let it get past checks, forcing you to run multiple on one team. Dazzling Gleam sets wreck Fighting-types but if it decides to opt for HP Fight, Substitute or Will-o-Wisp than Pawnaird is in trouble. If it is trick scarf or in some cases sub hp fight Nasty Plot it can cripple or get past Porygon. It always has Memento or Destiny Bond to be able to leave the field in style. While it can't run all these moves at the same time, they have to be taken into consideration when teambuilding.
While Misdreavus is not the only Pokemon that has a variety of good sets it can use, it is still outclasses the rest of them with superior BST, having that great 19 speed, 18 attack which can be abused with Nasty Plot easiliy, and good bulk too and on top of this, I still think the amount of roles it can play (Nasty Plot Sweeper, Nasty Plot sweeper with different coverage, trickscarf, trickspecs, defensive) are more than any other Pokemon in LC.
and Ban Fletchling my opinion on Fletchling has been a bit shaky towards the end of the suspect test, but I am still leaning towards a ban, although I do think it is less broken than Missy. I think having a 110 BP stab move with good offensive typing, and Gale Wings, help cover its subpar stats. Fletchling is an excellent sweeper, and an excellent revenge killer all rolled into one. With priority Acrobatics, Fletchling can often come on the field to revenge kill or force out a sweeper. The cost of getting forced out could be bad since Fletchling could use U-turn but anyway it can threaten with these revenge kills and still be used late game as a sweeper. Stealth Rock is literally the only thing that could really threaten Fletchling from getting revenge kills throughout the game. People think it is difficult to bring Fletchling in a battle, but in order to revenge kill something, usually a sweeper KO's something so you get to bring something in for free hence the name 'revenge killer' also a lot of pivots synergise well with Fletchling and can bring it in safely. Mienfoo, lures in Cottonee, Foongus, opposing Mienfoo, etc that Fletchling can threaten.
also while Fletchling doesn't have easy ways to get past checks like Missy, it can fit on many team archetypes that help it and even then, Fletchlings overheat shouldn't be underestimated and is run on about 30% of fletchlings iirc.
Fletchdig teams can easily lure in Fletch checks, U-turn on them and trap them with Diglett. It removes Magnemite, Chinchou, Ponyta. Archen and Defensive Tirtouga are the main ones that are free from this strategy.
Volt turn teams can constantly keep momentum while wearing down Fletchling checks. Mienfoo can beat Magnemite and to an extent Tirtouga and gets U-turn, Chinchou can beat Magnemite, tirtouga, in some cases, other Chinchou and if scarfed it can outspeed Archen and gets Volt Switch. Larvesta has U-turn and can lure in similar checks like Archen and Tirtouga and get some damage on them, while it can also beat Magnemite.
Then there are birdspam teams which can lure in Fletchchecks with Tailow, doduo, vullaby and either Knock Off, their items, weaken them with strong Brave Birds or in Tailows case, have Steel Wing to deal with Archen, or Boomburst to threaten Chinchou.
While Misdreavus is not the only Pokemon that has a variety of good sets it can use, it is still outclasses the rest of them with superior BST, having that great 19 speed, 18 attack which can be abused with Nasty Plot easiliy, and good bulk too and on top of this, I still think the amount of roles it can play (Nasty Plot Sweeper, Nasty Plot sweeper with different coverage, trickscarf, trickspecs, defensive) are more than any other Pokemon in LC.
and Ban Fletchling my opinion on Fletchling has been a bit shaky towards the end of the suspect test, but I am still leaning towards a ban, although I do think it is less broken than Missy. I think having a 110 BP stab move with good offensive typing, and Gale Wings, help cover its subpar stats. Fletchling is an excellent sweeper, and an excellent revenge killer all rolled into one. With priority Acrobatics, Fletchling can often come on the field to revenge kill or force out a sweeper. The cost of getting forced out could be bad since Fletchling could use U-turn but anyway it can threaten with these revenge kills and still be used late game as a sweeper. Stealth Rock is literally the only thing that could really threaten Fletchling from getting revenge kills throughout the game. People think it is difficult to bring Fletchling in a battle, but in order to revenge kill something, usually a sweeper KO's something so you get to bring something in for free hence the name 'revenge killer' also a lot of pivots synergise well with Fletchling and can bring it in safely. Mienfoo, lures in Cottonee, Foongus, opposing Mienfoo, etc that Fletchling can threaten.
also while Fletchling doesn't have easy ways to get past checks like Missy, it can fit on many team archetypes that help it and even then, Fletchlings overheat shouldn't be underestimated and is run on about 30% of fletchlings iirc.
Fletchdig teams can easily lure in Fletch checks, U-turn on them and trap them with Diglett. It removes Magnemite, Chinchou, Ponyta. Archen and Defensive Tirtouga are the main ones that are free from this strategy.
Volt turn teams can constantly keep momentum while wearing down Fletchling checks. Mienfoo can beat Magnemite and to an extent Tirtouga and gets U-turn, Chinchou can beat Magnemite, tirtouga, in some cases, other Chinchou and if scarfed it can outspeed Archen and gets Volt Switch. Larvesta has U-turn and can lure in similar checks like Archen and Tirtouga and get some damage on them, while it can also beat Magnemite.
Then there are birdspam teams which can lure in Fletchchecks with Tailow, doduo, vullaby and either Knock Off, their items, weaken them with strong Brave Birds or in Tailows case, have Steel Wing to deal with Archen, or Boomburst to threaten Chinchou.
MisdreavusMisdreavus is perhaps the biggest threat in the Little Cup metagame right now. Along with being fast and strong, it is also quite bulky, and has an extremely broad movepool which it can use to great effect. Misdreavus can be slapped on any team virtually risk-free, and trying to determine what moveset it is running cannot be done without risking a Pokemon. (ie: switching Porygon in on a Substitute or Trick) Misdreavus is a deadly killer with few counters, and it can take down opponents easily with its wide array of attacks. I believe that these factors make Misdreavus broken.
Ban
FletchlingFletchling is a fantastic-revenge killer and a phenomenal late-game cleaner. Although its Acrobatics is quite powerful, Fletchling has many viable Rock-, Steel-, and Electric-type counters with uses outside of checking Fletchling. Although Fletchling can run special coverage to get around these threats, it cannot do so without compromising its movepool, leaving it unable to run a potentially important move. I believe that Fletchling has enough checks and counters in order for its prescence in Little Cup to be considered healthy. Low stats, mediocre typing and Stealth Rock weakness all inhibit Fletchling. While it is a deadly killer, I believe it does not restrict team building nor does it force teams to run obscure counters as was the case with Swirlix. It is a solid presence in little cup, certainly, but not centralizing or broken.
Do not ban
Ban
FletchlingFletchling is a fantastic-revenge killer and a phenomenal late-game cleaner. Although its Acrobatics is quite powerful, Fletchling has many viable Rock-, Steel-, and Electric-type counters with uses outside of checking Fletchling. Although Fletchling can run special coverage to get around these threats, it cannot do so without compromising its movepool, leaving it unable to run a potentially important move. I believe that Fletchling has enough checks and counters in order for its prescence in Little Cup to be considered healthy. Low stats, mediocre typing and Stealth Rock weakness all inhibit Fletchling. While it is a deadly killer, I believe it does not restrict team building nor does it force teams to run obscure counters as was the case with Swirlix. It is a solid presence in little cup, certainly, but not centralizing or broken.
Do not ban
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