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Moltres [QC: 0/3]

Shroomisaur

Shroomisaur

Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
146.png

Flamin' Hot Chicken

QC:
GP:

Overview
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  • Great 125 base SpA, decent speed, and powerful STABs.
  • Good defensive typing, Roost, and decent defenses.
  • Counters common threats including Mega Lucario, Mega Mawile, Mega Scizor, and more.
  • It's 4x SR weak, so Moltres is extremely reliant on team support to function.
  • Poor movepool and redundant offensive STAB coverage limits its usefulness.
  • It's weak to common Water-, Electric-, and Rock-type moves.
  • Moltres faces heavy competition for teamslots, both offensively and defensively.
Defensive
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name: Defensive
move 1: Flamethrower
move 2: Roost
move 3: Will-O-Wisp
move 4: Roar / U-turn
ability: Pressure
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 248 HP / 40 Def / 220 SpD

Moves
========

  • Flamethrower is the reliable STAB option with good coverage and power, capable of OHKOing Mega Lucario
  • Roost keeps Moltres healthy throughout the match
  • Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers, including common switch-ins such as Tyranitar, while dealing residual damage
  • Roar racks up hazard damage and stops boosting sweepers
  • U-turn scouts and deals chip damage while allowing Moltres to function as a bulky pivot

Set Details
=======

  • 248 HP EVs maximize bulk while reducing Stealth Rock Damage.
  • The 40 Defense EVs ensure Moltres survives a +2 Adamant Mega Lucario Close Combat.
  • The remainder is invested in special bulk to better handle NP Mega Lucario and other special threats. For example, Quiet Life Orb Aegislash has under a 1% chance to 2HKO with Shadow Ball while Flamethrower easily OHKOs Blade Form.
  • Timid and 96 Speed EVs can be used to outrun Jolly Breloom, but this detracts from your special bulk - the same Aegislash now always 2HKOs.

Usage Tips
========

  • Use defensive Moltres to counter many common attackers such as Mega Lucario, Mawile, Scizor, most Genesect, etc.
  • Ensure that SR is down before bringing out Moltres
  • Moltres makes a great defensive partner to Pokemon like Scizor or Bisharp that attract Will-O-Wisps, which are free switches for Moltres
  • Moltres works great as a defensive pivot in a Fire-Water-Grass core, especially with U-turn.

Team Options
========

  • Rapid Spin / Defog support is mandatory, good choices include Excadrill, Starmie, Blastoise, Scizor, Empoleon, Latias.
  • Bulky Grass-types like Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur, and Chesnaught have great defensive synergy. Breloom is more offensive but is useful for destroying most Rock- and Water-types.
  • Bulky Water-types such as Empoleon and Blastoise provide anti-hazard support, Vaporeon provides Wish support. Gastrodon and Quagsire have perfect synergy with Moltres. Rotom-W makes a great bulky volt-turn partner.
  • Cleric support from Pokemon such as Sylveon or Blissey is appreciated.

Other Options
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  • Offensive LO + Agility set
  • Hidden Power Grass
  • Specs/Scarf sets
  • SubRoost and Toxic
  • Other hidden powers (ground for heatran, ice for dragons)
  • Fire Spin + Toxic
  • Defog (lulz)

Checks & Counters
########

  • SR SR SR SR
  • Heatran fears absolutely nothing, sets up SR and cripples Moltres with Toxic
  • Rock-type attackers like Terrakion, Landorus, or Garchomp fear switching into Will-O-Wisp, but easily OHKO otherwise.
  • Bulky water-types like Rotom-W or Gastrodon only fear Toxic or HP Grass.
  • Fast & powerful threats with SE moves (keldeo, thundrus, greninja, starmie, etc)
  • Special walls, especially clerics such as Blissey, Sylveon, Clefable
 
Last edited:
Specify that the Def EVs allow Moltres to survive a +2 CC from Adamant Mega Lucario; no Def EVs are needed if you only care about Jolly variants.
 
In the Overview mention the perks to using Moltres. For example, Moltres beats a lot of the common threats provided that Stealth Rock is off of the field. These include:

- Mega Lucario without Stone Edge
- (Mega) Scizor
- Mega Mawile (WoW ASAP)

These are the three primary Pokemon that Moltres can excel against. Furthermore, Moltres also does decently at handling some of the fairies since Moltres resists their STABs, though it is a dicey thing to mention since the most common one, Clefable, is immune to Toxic / Will-O-Wisp's indirect damage and has access to recovery.
 
Ok, I've got this all cleaned up now. A few notes for you guys:

1. I removed the offensive set entirely. I couldn't find any reason to use it over things like Volcarona, Scarf Heatran, or even Specs Noivern. Hurricane is really unreliable without rain and rather redundant with Fire Blast, and its only other coverage move is Hidden Power... it's just outclassed imo.

2. I cleaned up the moves and sent most other things (like SubRoost, Toxic, hidden power) to OO. Let me know your thoughts.

3. As Colonel M suggested, I stressed the key Pokemon that Moltres can counter in the overview, and added a bit about them in set details & usage tips.

This is QC ready!
 
What do you mean you couldn't find reasons to use it over Scarf Heatran, Volcarona, and Specs Noivern? Under rain, Scarf Heatran sucks and lacks STAB Hurricane, Volcarona lacks STAB Hurricane (same reasons with last gen really) and has way worse physical bulk and some different weaknesses, and Noivern is weaker, lacks Fire STAB to deal with Steel-types in rain, while its typing is different, meaning the handle different threats. Specs / LO should be re-added, not so sure about Agility + 2 attacks + Roost but it's worth a try. Of course very set with Hurricane should be used with Politoed as a teammate.

Anyway, what you should do is try out Hurricane Moltres in a rain team, and see if you think it's viable or not, because from what you said it is evident that you don't have playtest experience with it.
 
Not updated in a while, but I think that any stall set with WoW or Toxic should have Sky Drop, a nominal attack but one that buys turns of Leftovers and passive damage that can work in conjunction with Protect.
 
I believe SubToxic should get a set somewhere, as it is great at stalling out most Moltres switch-ins. Aside from Heatran and bulky clerics, any other Pokemon that does not mind Toxic dislikes STAB Flamethrower off a high Special Attack stat. Pressure also helps with the stalling, depleting Stone Edge PP with ridiculous ease.
 
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