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Grumpig actually checks Specs Delphox generally well. It resists both STABs due to Thick Fat and Psychic typing, and can 2HKO Delphox with Shadow Ball. Plus Specs Delphox doesn't have a guarenteed 3HKO on Grumpig unless Rocks are up and it uses Psyshock. (This is with a Max HP, Max Special Attack, Modest Grumpig.)
But with that being said, Grumpig is still outclassed by other Bulky Psychics like Uxie, Mespirit and y'know.. Cresselia. So it's not worth it really. Still interesting though.
The type combinations that resist Fire / Psychic / Grass are (with their RU counterparts):
Dragon/Dark (Deino, Zweilous)
Dragon/Psychic (N/A)
Fire/Dark (Houndour)
Fire/Psychic (Delphox)
Interestingly, Delphox has 75/100 Special Defense, as well as WishTect recovery. It also gets access to Magical Fire, which lowers the target's Special Attack one stage.
About the last slot: Grass Knot nails Rhyperior and Gastrodon, but HP Ground hits more targets SE and neutrally overall. Will-o-Wisp burns physical attackers, neutering them fairly well and patching up Delphox's mediocre Defense stat.
252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Psyshock vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 117-138 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- 20.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Fire Blast vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Delphox: 120-141 (34.3 - 40.4%) -- 51.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Delphox: 44-52 (12.6 - 14.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
-1 252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Shadow Ball vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Delphox: 156-184 (44.6 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
In conclusion, I urge you all to try out Defensive Delphox!
THANK YOU! I posted a set similar to this earlier and no one blinked an eye, but it has never failed to impress me. It does seem like a rather nice counter to offensive Delphox thanks to recovery, Mystical Fire and Shadow Ball (the latter on my set at least), but I've never had a Delphox mirror without myself. Pay attention this time people. Defensive Delphox is legit and not another gimmicky Magician set.
Grumpig actually checks Specs Delphox generally well. It resists both STABs due to Thick Fat and Psychic typing, and can 2HKO Delphox with Shadow Ball. Plus Specs Delphox doesn't have a guarenteed 3HKO on Grumpig unless Rocks are up and it uses Psyshock. (This is with a Max HP, Max Special Attack, Modest Grumpig.)
But with that being said, Grumpig is still outclassed by other Bulky Psychics like Uxie, Mespirit and y'know.. Cresselia. So it's not worth it really. Still interesting though.
The fact that cresselia kind of deals with it better w/o any form of thick fat or resistance and takes about the same damage as thick fat pig is hilarious and shows cress' mad bulk.
The fact that cresselia kind of deals with it better w/o any form of thick fat or resistance and takes about the same damage as thick fat pig is hilarious and shows cress' mad bulk.
The bulky bitch swan has her reputation for being impossible to kill for a reason. A pig that's NU in NU obviously can't compare.
With that being said, I only run Life Orb on Durant so i can OHKO it with X Scissor after a Hone Claws and SR Damage, as situational as that is. The Moon Swan is the bane of my existence since I prefer heavy offensive teams.. And it just. doesn't. die..
Does anybody have any clue as to how to counter Delphox? I can't think of anything in the tier that's able to take all of the possible attacks it can have (assume specs Fire Blast / Grass Knot / Psychic / Psyshock) short of Slowking (which takes a lot from Grass Knot with AV 252 HP and has a shot at getting 2HKOed with 252/252+ leftovers when rocks are up) and Zweilous (which I don't think should really be a problem).
It has a lot of checks (it's decently frail enough and weak to sucker punch; it's also slow enough that things like tornadus and the almighty purugly outspeed it) but it sure is scary.
A fully specially defensive lickilicky avoids 2hko even from specs fire blast.
252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 183-216 (43.2 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Just watch out when its in blaze range, I guess.
The reason why Lickilicky is slightly better than Aromatisse in this scenario is because Lickilicky has much better mixed bulk, Aromatisse can't take specs Psyshock
Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam/Aqua Jet
- Protect
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
An underrated Sharpedo set that takes advantage of its serviceable base 95 special attack. This set is usually used in tandem with nasty plot/baton pass Togetic. Togetic is such a good pokemon in ru and it presents a bunch of opportunities to boost because of its insane bulk while holding an eviolite. The only problem is finding the perfect time to pass to Sharpedo. Hydro Pump and Dark Pulse everything for a wonderful late game cleaner. :)))
Interesting take on Sharpedo Rob. , but I don't see what the use in Aqua Jet really is. I mean, I guess it's nice to outprioritize things since you're really damn frail, but without investment, you aren't going to be doing a whole lot to common priority users with the spread you're using. Observe:
4 Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hitmonlee: 109-130 (45 - 53.7%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Aqua Jet vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Hitmonchan: 79-95 (26 - 31.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Not even going to calc Drudd or Toxicroak since one has a resist and solid bulk while the other is outright immune to Aqua Jet. I really see no reason to run Aqua Jet on any Sharpedo unless you just really need the Water-type priority, in which case I would just use something like Feraligatr or Kabutops since they actually have decent enough bulk to handle a couple of hits.
As for Choice Specs Delphox, it's really friggen hard to have an answer for it. However, I do feel there is a decent enough answer to it that really hasn't been addressed yet: Assault Vest Meloetta. This is the set I'm thinking of:
Meloetta @ Assault Vest
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 192 SAtk / 68 SDef
Nature: Modest
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball / Focus Blast / some other filler out of its stupid wide movepool
- U-turn / Knock Off
So, why AV Meloetta to deal with Specs Delphox you ask? Simple. It isn't 2HKOed by any move and can OHKO with Shadow Ball after Rocks and 1 layer of Spikes. Obviously, you're going to need Wish support to help Meloetta recover from the encounter, but considering there are so few Delphox answers that aren't screwed by Switcheroo, this is a fairly decent option. Shadow Ball isn't fully necessary as Hyper Voice still 2HKOes Delphox, so Focus Blast is still a neat option to hit Steel-types trying to get cute and wall you. If neither of those strike your fancy, try out TBolt, Energy Ball, Grass Knot, or any number of Meloetta's other coverage moves. U-turn is nice for scouting and if Meloetta gets handed a Choice Specs, she isn't complete Pursuit bait. If you opt out of Shadow Ball, it may be a good idea to run Knock Off to protect yourself against CM Delphox. It will do 45% minimum, which is still enough to KO +1 Delphox after Rocks in conjunction with Hyper Voice. Here's relevant calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 68 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 126-148 (31.2 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 111-131 (27.5 - 32.5%) -- 81.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Grass Knot (20 BP) vs. 248 HP / 68 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 16-19 (3.9 - 4.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever. lmao
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 68 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 164-192 (40.6 - 47.6%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Scary, but observe:
+1 252 SpA Delphox Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 68 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 126-148 (31.2 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock. Knock Off saves you.
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 144-170 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Meloetta on offense:
192+ SpA Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Delphox: 182-216 (62.3 - 73.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
192+ SpA Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Delphox: 153-181 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Meloetta Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 134-158 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
192+ SpA Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Delphox: 102-121 (34.9 - 41.4%) -- 69.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Knock Off + Hyper Voice = dead CM Delphox and living Meloetta
Tl;DR AV Meloetta can beat Specs Delphox, but if you want it to beat CM Delphox, bring it packing Knock Off.
Interesting take on Sharpedo Rob. , but I don't see what the use in Aqua Jet really is. I mean, I guess it's nice to outprioritize things since you're really damn frail, but without investment, you aren't going to be doing a whole lot to common priority users with the spread you're using. Observe:
4 Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hitmonlee: 109-130 (45 - 53.7%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Aqua Jet vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Hitmonchan: 79-95 (26 - 31.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Not even going to calc Drudd or Toxicroak since one has a resist and solid bulk while the other is outright immune to Aqua Jet. I really see no reason to run Aqua Jet on any Sharpedo unless you just really need the Water-type priority, in which case I would just use something like Feraligatr or Kabutops since they actually have decent enough bulk to handle a couple of hits.
As for Choice Specs Delphox, it's really friggen hard to have an answer for it. However, I do feel there is a decent enough answer to it that really hasn't been addressed yet: Assault Vest Meloetta. This is the set I'm thinking of:
Meloetta @ Assault Vest
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 192 SAtk / 68 SDef
Nature: Modest
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball / Focus Blast / some other filler out of its stupid wide movepool
- U-turn / Knock Off
So, why AV Meloetta to deal with Specs Delphox you ask? Simple. It isn't 2HKOed by any move and can OHKO with Shadow Ball after Rocks and 1 layer of Spikes. Obviously, you're going to need Wish support to help Meloetta recover from the encounter, but considering there are so few Delphox answers that aren't screwed by Switcheroo, this is a fairly decent option. Shadow Ball isn't fully necessary as Hyper Voice still 2HKOes Delphox, so Focus Blast is still a neat option to hit Steel-types trying to get cute and wall you. If neither of those strike your fancy, try out TBolt, Energy Ball, Grass Knot, or any number of Meloetta's other coverage moves. U-turn is nice for scouting and if Meloetta gets handed a Choice Specs, she isn't complete Pursuit bait. If you opt out of Shadow Ball, it may be a good idea to run Knock Off to protect yourself against CM Delphox. It will do 45% minimum, which is still enough to KO +1 Delphox after Rocks in conjunction with Hyper Voice. Here's relevant calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 68 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 126-148 (31.2 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 111-131 (27.5 - 32.5%) -- 81.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Grass Knot (20 BP) vs. 248 HP / 68 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 16-19 (3.9 - 4.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever. lmao
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 68 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 164-192 (40.6 - 47.6%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Scary, but observe:
+1 252 SpA Delphox Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 68 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 126-148 (31.2 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock. Knock Off saves you.
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 144-170 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Meloetta on offense:
192+ SpA Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Delphox: 182-216 (62.3 - 73.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
192+ SpA Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Delphox: 153-181 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Meloetta Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 134-158 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
192+ SpA Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Delphox: 102-121 (34.9 - 41.4%) -- 69.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Knock Off + Hyper Voice = dead CM Delphox and living Meloetta
Tl;DR AV Meloetta can beat Specs Delphox, but if you want it to beat CM Delphox, bring it packing Knock Off.
Was implying that you would U-turn as the Pursuit user comes in if you happen to get Trick / Switcherooed a Choice Specs at some point in the match. Sorry, should've clarified that a bit in hindsight.
Togetic is setup and switcheroo fodder. AV slowking is not crippled that much by Choice Specs and can still 2hko +1 Delphox if it turnes out to be the Calm Mind set.
Whirlwind Grumpig is the other that can beat both sets but it doesn't have reliable recovery and is crippled by Specs.
After the quickbans, the only thing left that's been a little too frustrating to face for me is Shaymin. Good stats all around with a good movepool for both offensive and defensive sets. If rocks are up, most Pokes that actually have the ability to one-shot offensive Shaymin (i.e. things that use STAB fire or flying) can often get outsped and KO'd by one of its coverage moves, especially if it gets the seed flare SpDef drop as they switch in. Besides Assault Vest Escavalier (I am aware of the irony considering the beginning of my post), I can't find anything that can...sort of...reliably deal with that thing.
Has anyone used cinccino here?? I thought it will be a dead weight after all these new pokemon, but no, cuz cinccino still rocks among the cool guys. :)
Cinccino @ Life Orb
Ability : Skill Link
EVs : 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Adamant / Timid Nature
-Tail Slap
- Rock Blast
- Bullet Seed
- Knock Off / U-Turn
This thing I gotta say is powerful. Only few things can switch in. Bannette gets 2HKOd by Knock Off(Prankster does not activate on first turn), gligar and ferroseed, doublade, sliggoo all hates getting knock off in the face, OHKOs many top tier pokes like SD Gallade, Delphox, Typhlosion, Slowking, Moltres, Raikou and 2HKOs Shaymin. The only true counters are steelix, ferro(but hates knock off), Doublade(can take one hit or two), Hitmontop and spiritomb
Has anyone used cinccino here?? I thought it will be a dead weight after all these new pokemon, but no, cuz cinccino still rocks among the cool guys. :)
Cinccino @ Life Orb
Ability : Skill Link
EVs : 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Adamant / Timid Nature
-Tail Slap
- Rock Blast
- Bullet Seed
- Knock Off / U-Turn
This thing I gotta say is powerful. Only few things can switch in. Bannette gets 2HKOd by Knock Off(Prankster does not activate on first turn), gligar and ferroseed, doublade, sliggoo all hates getting knock off in the face, OHKOs many top tier pokes like SD Gallade, Delphox, Typhlosion, Slowking, Moltres, Raikou and 2HKOs Shaymin. The only true counters are steelix, ferro(but hates knock off), Doublade(can take one hit or two), Hitmontop and spiritomb
Does anyone use Shadow Ball on Delphox, or is that just me?
Also has anyone tried the Red Card set designed to work along side Magician? I personally think that it works rather well - turning any move into Theif, but ten times better due to possibility of STAB, can be another type, can be more powerful and can be special. This is what I use:
Delphox @ Red Card
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Grass / Grass Knot
Not sure which is better in the last moveslot as i am not very familliar with the meta, but w/e. What are peoples opinions on the set?
Also, why hasn't Shaymin been thought about yet? That thing is just so rediculous and it needs to go.
Does anyone use Shadow Ball on Delphox, or is that just me?
Also has anyone tried the Red Card set designed to work along side Magician? I personally think that it works rather well - turning any move into Theif, but ten times better due to possibility of STAB, can be another type, can be more powerful and can be special. This is what I use:
Delphox @ Red Card
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Grass / Grass Knot
Not sure which is better in the last moveslot as i am not very familliar with the meta, but w/e. What are peoples opinions on the set?
Also, why hasn't Shaymin been thought about yet? That thing is just so rediculous and it needs to go.
Does anyone use Shadow Ball on Delphox, or is that just me?
Also has anyone tried the Red Card set designed to work along side Magician? I personally think that it works rather well - turning any move into Theif, but ten times better due to possibility of STAB, can be another type, can be more powerful and can be special. This is what I use:
Delphox @ Red Card
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Grass / Grass Knot
Not sure which is better in the last moveslot as i am not very familliar with the meta, but w/e. What are peoples opinions on the set?
Also, why hasn't Shaymin been thought about yet? That thing is just so rediculous and it needs to go.
While your set is pretty interesting, I feel that it is trying too hard to be a Magician set. Will-o-Wisp would be a good fit somewhere on this set to make it not outclassed by a Choice Specs or Life Orb set. Red Card would work well with it. And yes, I use Shadow Ball on Delphox pretty often. It's pretty good coverage as the only thing you'd possibly want to fight that resists the combo is Pyroar. Of course, you can just use Psyshock on your set. Overall, this isn't bad but I highly suggest you put Will-o-Wisp in the last slot unless Rhyperior is giving your team trouble.
Does anyone use Shadow Ball on Delphox, or is that just me?
Also has anyone tried the Red Card set designed to work along side Magician? I personally think that it works rather well - turning any move into Theif, but ten times better due to possibility of STAB, can be another type, can be more powerful and can be special. This is what I use:
Delphox @ Red Card
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Grass / Grass Knot
Not sure which is better in the last moveslot as i am not very familliar with the meta, but w/e. What are peoples opinions on the set?
Also, why hasn't Shaymin been thought about yet? That thing is just so rediculous and it needs to go.
Guys, stop making Magician work. It's too unreliable; You're basically screwed if you catch something like CB or Black Sludge. Also note that there are enough 'mons that don't hate losing their items.
Hate aside, i'd like to introduce something I've been using today:
So yea. Mixed Emboar works amazing in the meta right now. The first two moves speak for themselves, being STABs that nuke everything. Grass Knot is to hit stuff like Rhyperior, Gastrodon etc. for some decent to very good damage and Sucker Punch is priority since 65 speed isn't all that impressive. The main focus here is SpA, given the fact that Superpower lowers Atk and most of Emboars Physical moves have recoil (Release Reckless GF).
Ebelt lets you bluff a Choiced set and catch a switch-in off guard, but I guess you can use Life Orb as well. I just prefer Ebelt. You can also opt for Mild > Lonely if you feel like it' Spa should hit higher, since it has a naturally higher base Atk (123) than SpA (100)
Early game it's usefull wallbreaker, being able to soften up walls for another 'mon to sweep or to attempt a sweep itself. It does have it's downsides, however, which are being weak to common attacking types like Psychic and Ground. However it does have some nice resistances like Bug, Dark and Grass. Aside from typing, it's also fairly slow and thus easily outsped by things.
All in All I do really like Mixed Emboar in today's Meta. It also offers a very good check to Delphox, however CM and Sub screws you over :I. However keep in mind it is not a nuke.
Some calcs for funsies. 4+ Atk Expert Belt Emboar Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Delphox: 240-283 (82.1 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Delphox Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Emboar: 117-138 (27.5 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Emboar Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gastrodon: 312-370 (73.2 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Expert Belt Emboar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 418-492 (103.4 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4+ Atk Expert Belt Emboar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Registeel: 288-341 (79.1 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4+ Atk Emboar Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Raikou: 216-255 (67 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Emboar Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Alomomola: 245-290 (45.8 - 54.3%) -- 5.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
ive been using this lately and it rarely lets me down. it can easily tank any special hit like its nothing, and the ev spread allows it to take some physical hits. the sash just in case it gets ohkod. it also has plenty of natural speed so it outspeeds quite a bit without any speed investment
Sleep Powder
Quiver Dance
Giga Drain
HP Rock/Ice/Fighting
The only reason why I put Rock is because Delphox can resist +2 Giga Drain and hit hard with Fire Blast. Otherwise, i'm getting good results even without Sun to double the speed (probably a good thing not having Sun).
