Resource XY NU Viability Ranking

[Celever]

I would like to nominate Mantine from C- to C+/B-

While Mantine is definitely not the best Pokémon, it is very good at what it does. It has pretty great typing for this tier (quad-weakness to Electric is remedied by the fairly noticeable lack of electric-type in the tier (sure we have the rotoms, but that's pretty much it)). You may say that it is eclipsed by Pelipper, but I disagree. First of all, Pelipper is defensive physically, whereas Mantine is defensive specially. Mantine also has superior stats in everything but Defense. I would say that Pelipper is more appealing, because it has Knock Off and Hurricane, whereas Mantine is stuck with Air Slash. Mantine also lacks Roost, which is a huge deal all things considered. Even with those flaws and the harsh competition in Pelipper, though, it is consistent when it has to be. ChestoResto with Scald / Air Slash / Defog / Rest is a consistent and viable set, as is its B/W ResTalk set (albeit lacking Defog). Mantine is also quite versatile, being able to pull of a strong Swift Swim set (and is great for a bulky rain team weak to hazards, js) and if your team has serious trouble with opposing rain teams, Mantine is probably better for tackling them than its competition thanks to Water Absorb. Kabutops is also in the tier as a physical spinner powerful in rain, but it has worse defensive typing, and the comparison isn't very equal because they play out very differently on teams. I just feel like C- is much too low for Mantine, because it is a consistent Defogger and has some pretty good sets outside of it.

 

[Nozzle]

yep here we go again i suck at making arguments :/
Cacturne
Weaknesses: Bug, Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Flying, Ice, Poison
Resistances: Dark, Electric, Ghost, Grass, Ground, Water
Immunities: Psychic

It does have some decent resistances/immunities but it has just as much weaknesses, many of which are common attacking types. More than often the opponent WILL have a move to hit you super effectively, that combined with his defenses that arent too great for such a slow mon and it will HURT. And tbh i havent ever really specifically prepared for cacturne either. I can see it going both ways here really.

The tauros thing wasn't really a comparison in what they do but more like a comparison in viability. I shouldve made it less vague, my bad.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Nominating Magnemite for --> D- Rank

Okay so Magnemite is one of those pokemon that you'd think nobody in their right mind would use. You couldn't be more right. However, it does have a few things going for it that make it worth using if you're one of those people. One, it gets Magnet Pull. So if you need to get stuff like Ferroseed or Klinklang out of the way for something like Slurpuff to sweep Magnemite is pretty much your best option (shut up Probopass nobody likes you). Speaking about Slurpuff, Magnemite is one of the few pokemon in NU that can claim to check the Belly Drum variant:

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Magnemite: 207-245 (81.4 - 96.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Magnemite Flash Cannon vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Slurpuff: 294-348 (92.4 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO (yeah after Belly Drum that's a kill)

Despite having a base 25 HP (for comparison, Caterpie has base 45) Magnemite has decent enough bulk with an Eviolite to take a hit. It's a reasonable check to stuff like SR Mesprit and it actually has pretty good SpAtk (base 95) with good coverage. I also love luring Seismitoad with Specs HP Grass (though you should use Eviolite if serious). You kind of need to look at Magnemite like a mini-Magneton; it's not as good, but does essentially the same thing. Magneton was a top-tier mon during the short time it was NU, so why not give Magnemite a chance? I assure you, it won't disappoint.

 

[Celever]

Nominating Magnemite for --> D- Rank

Okay so Magnemite is one of those pokemon that you'd think nobody in their right mind would use. You couldn't be more right. However, it does have a few things going for it that make it worth using if you're one of those people. One, it gets Magnet Pull. So if you need to get stuff like Ferroseed or Klinklang out of the way for something like Slurpuff to sweep Magnemite is pretty much your best option (shut up Probopass nobody likes you). Speaking about Slurpuff, Magnemite is one of the few pokemon in NU that can claim to check the Belly Drum variant:

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Magnemite: 207-245 (81.4 - 96.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Magnemite Flash Cannon vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Slurpuff: 294-348 (92.4 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO (yeah after Belly Drum that's a kill)

Despite having a base 25 HP (for comparison, Caterpie has base 45) Magnemite has decent enough bulk with an Eviolite to take a hit. It's a reasonable check to stuff like SR Mesprit and it actually has pretty good SpAtk (base 95) with good coverage. I also love luring Seismitoad with Specs HP Grass (though you should use Eviolite if serious). You kind of need to look at Magnemite like a mini-Magneton; it's not as good, but does essentially the same thing. Magneton was a top-tier mon during the short time it was NU, so why not give Magnemite a chance? I assure you, it won't disappoint.

Why would I ever use Magnemite over Probopass? If we start ranking anything which can counter a couple of powerful threats in D-Rank it would be completely full.

 

[Dentricos]

I would like to nominate Mantine from C- to C+/B-

While Mantine is definitely not the best Pokémon, it is very good at what it does. It has pretty great typing for this tier (quad-weakness to Electric is remedied by the fairly noticeable lack of electric-type in the tier (sure we have the rotoms, but that's pretty much it)). You may say that it is eclipsed by Pelipper, but I disagree. First of all, Pelipper is defensive physically, whereas Mantine is defensive specially. Mantine also has superior stats in everything but Defense. I would say that Pelipper is more appealing, because it has Knock Off and Hurricane, whereas Mantine is stuck with Air Slash. Mantine also lacks Roost, which is a huge deal all things considered. Even with those flaws and the harsh competition in Pelipper, though, it is consistent when it has to be. ChestoResto with Scald / Air Slash / Defog / Rest is a consistent and viable set, as is its B/W ResTalk set (albeit lacking Defog). Mantine is also quite versatile, being able to pull of a strong Swift Swim set (and is great for a bulky rain team weak to hazards, js) and if your team has serious trouble with opposing rain teams, Mantine is probably better for tackling them than its competition thanks to Water Absorb. Kabutops is also in the tier as a physical spinner powerful in rain, but it has worse defensive typing, and the comparison isn't very equal because they play out very differently on teams. I just feel like C- is much too low for Mantine, because it is a consistent Defogger and has some pretty good sets outside of it.

After using mantine for awhile I have to agree.

You also have to remember mantine has a few things over peliper. Namely haze and water absorb which allow it to stop a gorebyss smashpass team which will include substitutes and magic bounce xatus. Mantine is the one mon that can 100% consistently stop smashpass without problem. It is also useful at stopping typhlosion right in it's tracks. Also when people switch into pawniard to get the defiant boost mantine can just haze it away. Restalk is not necessary if u play it right and if you really need to you can run audino wish pass.

I agree Mantine C- ---> B-

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Why would I ever use Magnemite over Probopass? If we start ranking anything which can counter a couple of powerful threats in D-Rank it would be completely full.

Magnemite and Probopass are two different pokemon friend. Yes they both trap Steels, but that's where it stops. But since you're asking, Magnemite can trap and kill Klinklang effectively while Probopass can not:

252+ SpA Magnemite Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 150-177 (57.2 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Klinklang Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Magnemite: 88-104 (34.6 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Klinklang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 214-252 (66 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Probopass Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 118-140 (45 - 53.4%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO (and that's if you even run Earth Power)

But that's not really as important; Probopass is a support mon/tank. Magnemite is an offensive pivot. Magnemite has a powerful STAB Volt Switch, Probopass does not. Probopass has awful offenses and is thus forced to be very passive; Magnemite on the other hand can seriously dent stuff with its great neutral coverage and solid SpAtk. There's many reasons to run one over the other; it just depends on what your team needs most. If you don't need the tanking capacities of Probopass or your team can't deal with its passivity, use Magnemite.

As for your second argument, there was a post (#782) before that really explains well why it is flawed and also got a lot of support from the community. NU can afford to have a larger D rank than other tiers is what it comes down to; but if you disagree I wouldn't mind nominating Magnemite for a higher rank like C ;)

 

[kay]

Unlike Magnemite, Probopass brings more to the table then a simple niche. As a steel trapper it's out classed, and as a pivot it is out classed. It's mediocre at best.

 

[atomicllamas]

Wait, are people trying to get magnemite ranked, LOL

 

[Pooch13]

Wait, are people trying to get magnemite ranked, LOL

No need to be mockery about it though, it wont bring anything to the table other than being rude(to be noted that if anyone else than a mod made a comment like this it would have been deleted long time ago -_-).

Anywho, i want to nominate Rotom fan (S) to B+/A- rank.

Often compared and overshadowed by its brothah rotom normal, rotom-S is also frowned upon because of its SR weakness and its one more of the pokemon deemed as not great all because of one move. However, Rotom-S has a lot more things going on for him that Rotom-N doesnt.

To begin with rotom-S DUAL stab is SE vs 5 types, and only resisted by 1 (electric) giving it good enough neutral/SE coverage (rotom-N has two immunities in ground and normal which can make predictions a lot harder). Thats on the offensive side and it is to be noted that it can fullfill the scarf role pretty well as it has trick and WoW too.

My next point is that defensive (mostly physically defensive) rotom-S checks a lot of the top tier pokemons in the A and B ranks : Gatr, Sawk, Primeape, Klink, Kanga, Gurdurr, Hariyama, Swellow, Pangoro, Leafeon and Scyther ( and some others but I'm too lazy to keep looking for them)

Resisted

252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 108-127 (35.6 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Guts Swellow Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 76-90 (25 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Kangaskhan Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 121-144 (39.9 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 177-208 (58.4 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 216-255 (71.2 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Bouffalant Head Charge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 237-279 (78.2 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Primeape Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 58-69 (19.1 - 22.7%) -- possible 5HKO

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Klinklang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 102-120 (33.6 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252+ Atk Gurdurr Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 60-71 (19.8 - 23.4%) -- possible 5HKO

+2 252 Atk Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 90-106 (29.7 - 34.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 220-261 (72.6 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Pawniard Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 74-87 (24.4 - 28.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Rotom-S lacks reliable recovery but it has acces to Pain Split as well as it can wear down foes with WoW+Protect, and finally it can manage to go for chesto rest set as it can take more than one hit from physical foes.

Now some of you may say "yeah but its weak to rocks and ice which are common in the tier and stack it with SR and its easily worned down" but it can tank SE hits as well, maybe not 2 but enough to either cripple a foe with Wow or to Volt switch and safely bring a check as shown in the next calcs even after SR damage in some cases (yeah i know more calcs, yay ) :

SE hits

252+ Atk Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 228-270 (75.2 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Mold Breaker Sawk Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 110-130 (36.3 - 42.9%) -- 24.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 180-214 (59.4 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Feraligatr Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 214-252 (70.6 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Rhydon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 248-294 (81.8 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 174-211 (57.4 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery!! (Say wuuuuut?!?!)

252+ Atk Piloswine Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-S: 270-330 (89.1 - 108.9%) -- approx. 12.5% chance to OHKO

Seeing the definition of A rank mons, i feel rotom deserves a place in the low A rank as it can take on many of those threats even when boosted and cripple them and it only needs a rapid spinner to function at 100% of its capacities. I can't really see any other defensive wall that can take as many hits as this guy (besides toad and seed and even they have huge flaws) and resists such common threats. The scarf set is also good as it doesnt fear Sawks moldbreaker EQ to switch in unlike normal rotom too but IMO it excels more as a defensive wall. Give it a few tries and it ll amaze you I'm sure ;).

 

[Politoad]

I'd like to nominate Rapidash from D+ to C-/C

People say it's easily outclassed by Flareon, however, I think otherwise. Flareon does have better staying power and attack, yes, but also suffers from recoil as well as weak to Stealth Rock.

Rapidash can, when attached to a Choice Band, easily revengekill opponents after a teammate has been killed, thanks to a decent 100 base Attack, 105 Speed and great coverage in Wild Charge or Drill Run / Low Kick. It is also capable of recovering when using a Life Orb set, that ups its longevity. Flash Fire allows it an immunity to Fire and ups the power of Flare Blitz.

Few calcs here:

252 Atk Choice Band Rapidash Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dragalge: 238-280 (71.2 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Rapidash Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Golem: 260-308 (86 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

it is capable of taking out Pokemon that resist it main STAB thanks to good coverage. I really think Rapidash shoudl move up a tier as it has great speed that allows it to speedtie things such as Cryogonal or Mismagius, and outspeed Typhlosion.

 

[Zenza]

Is there any reason Huntail isn't the same rank as gorebyss jw lol

 

[Magcargo]

Is there any reason Huntail isn't the same rank as gorebyss jw lol

If I'm not mistaken, I believe it isn't that same rank because it faces more competition from Physical water-type sweepers such as Kabutops, Feraligatr and samurott and has a weaker STAB move for baton pass sets.

 

[kay]

That and the fact that Gorebyss has a better move pool for sweeping teams after a SS then Huntail does. So it doubles as a smash passer, and a sweeper.

 

[Dentricos]

There a few things low tier that really are just not in the correct place. Mainly because they are far more or less useful, and much more or less of a problem then those around them.

Gorebyss from B+ ---> A-

I know this is high tier but I felt like getting this out of the way early. Now that omastar is RU Gorebyss takes over it's role a best special water sweeper (Along with samurott). At the same time it has it's well known ability to pass off it's stat boosts and let something else on the team continue the sweep. This helps it avoid priority sucker punch and can get a sweep going if played correctly. Looking at what else was A- (Sceptile, Gurdurr, Klinklang) I feel gorebyss would fit in.

Pawniard from B+ ---> A-

I could easily be wrong about this one but it just always is such a hassle to deal with and can generally work to take down a sisignificantortion of teams and not only that it makes defog far less easy to use. I can see how it is B+ and why but I feel like it is worth considering for moving up.

Cacturne from B ---> B-

I don't know about the rest of you but my experience with cacturne is that it hardly EVER does anything. It's good on paper with access to STAB sucker punch but in reality, it's lack of speed, bulk, and good typing often render it taken out by random coverage moves. If they r using a sash set then you can kill it with your own priority since sucker punch isn't reliable. I just feel like the risk on using this pokemon isn't worth the reward.

Boufallant B- ---> B

Not that this mon is great, but it in general seems to do far more then the other more utility based mons in B- such as roselia or piloswine. It's raw power, tremendous bulk, and access to swords dance and sap sipper allow this mon to put serious dents in teams.

Rotom-Frost B- ---> C-

I was surprised to see this thing so high in the viability chain. Unlike rotom-fan and rotom this does not have good enough typing to run a defensive WoW pain split set that has been known to work on the rotom lineup. That makes this things only available niche is choice scarf. It does this worse then the other two and can't even use stab ice beam and instead is forced to run the inaccurate blizzard. As a scarfer it can't switch in whenever to get volt switch momentum because it takes 25% every time it comes in on rocks. So far I've yet to have seen this mon used effectively.

Sandslash C+ --->B

As one of the most solid spinners in the tier and a good volt switch blocker with decent stats I feel this guy isn't getting proper recognition down in C+ This thing is a key player on many teams and is far more useful then the mons that surround it.

Zebstrika C+ ---> C

Again I really don't think zebstrika is up to par with the surrounding mons (Gourgeist, Regirock, Victrebell) And I feel like it can be more suited around mons such as carbink and ditto. I don't feel like it is in any way more useful then raichu or muk who are currently C rank but that's just my take on the matter.

Meowstic-M C ---> B-

Whoa why is the number 1 dual screener in the tier that has access to prankster dual screens and prankster yawn all the way down in C rank? Sure it doesn't do much on it's own but it's a wonderful support mon that can help you get your sweepers started with doing what they do best. I feel it would fit in nicely around mons like togetic and steelix up in B-

Cradily C- ---> C+

Those of you who know me knew this one was coming. I feel the common understanding of how cradily functions is based on the common sets or bad sets like stockpile or infestation sets. The WP cradily set that I've been using puts in serious work the majority of the games I play as I've tested it up to rank 6 on the ladder and against some really good players in tourneys. Although I think it belongs up in B- I will only try to push it for C+ along with things like stunfisk, camurupt, and chatot. http://pastebin.com/mYjwZh1S

Floatzel C- ---> C

This mon is just ever so slightly out of place in C- ranking. Although largely outclassed by feraligatr it has it's niche in trick choice band and can already do work without needing a turn to set up. Considering gatr is all the way up in S rank I think it's fair to give floatzel a bit of love for what it does.

 

[kay]

I actually agree with majority of what's said on Dentri's list.

Gorebyss - It can be both a Smash Pass set, or the simple SS sweeping set. You CAN NOT sleep on this, or you will get swept. I agree for A-.

Pawniard - I can see this moving up, just the fact it's there puts pressure on them not to defog. Mixed with great typing and an ability to sweep, I agree for A-.

Cacturne - I have only been swept by this ONCE. I agree that it just doesn't do much most of the time. I agree for rank B-.

Boufallant - No real opinion. I am neutral for Rank B.

Rotom-Frost - I don't know why it's rank B- either. Having access to no reliable ice STAB, stealth rock weakness, and only being able to run 1 set makes this a very one dimensional pokemon. I would say rank C.

Sandslash - One of the best sand sweepers why have, mixed with it's ability to run lum SD rapid spin to beat every spin blocker in the tier makes this an easy rank B in my books. I agree for rank B.

Zebstrika - No real opinion. I am neutral for rank C.

Meowstic - I disagree with this. I feel as tho Uxie does the duel screens better then Meowstic, due to memento. Prankster screens just isn't that useful as it sounds like on paper. I disagree for rank B-.

Cradily - Simply put, I agree for C+. Dentri has proven it's use, and it's provides a small niche in a WP user. I agree for rank C+.


Floatzel - I don't feel as tho Floatzel has what it takes to be rank C, due to having nothing compared to other physical water types. I disagree for rank C.

Edit: wording mistakes.

 

[Ares]

Rotom-Frost B- ---> C-

I was surprised to see this thing so high in the viability chain. Unlike rotom-fan and rotom this does not have good enough typing to run a defensive WoW pain split set that has been known to work on the rotom lineup. That makes this things only available niche is choice scarf. It does this worse then the other two and can't even use stab ice beam and instead is forced to run the inaccurate blizzard. As a scarfer it can't switch in whenever to get volt switch momentum because it takes 25% every time it comes in on rocks. So far I've yet to have seen this mon used effectively.

You shouldnt be be trying to use Rotom-Frost defensively lol. It has a much better offensive typing letting it nail a lot more super effectively between Ice and Electric. It does suck that Blizzard is inaccurate but it also hits like a truck. Rotom Frost can pull off a more of an offensive Sub Split set which is actually quite good. This thing is more of an offensive Rotom form and scarf is not its only niche, B- is fine imo.

 

[soulgazer]

Cacturne - I have only been swept by this ONCE. I agree that it just doesn't do much most of the time. I agree for rank B-.

so losing to it once means its bad? its like saying ur a good player, went 60-0 on ladder, and try to tell us gatr should be B because u overprepared for it and it never got a kill.

Anyway I already posted about Cacturne on last page, but I just want to say that you guys are either underestimating it or you didn't play someone good using it/never tried it yourself =/. Cacturne doesn't fit on many teams, but when used properly and in the right situation it will be a massive threat.

Pawniard should also stay in B+ imo. It is good yes, but the metagame has been adapting to it ever since it got popular. Most Feraligatr runs at least enough Speed to outspeed it, and Grass-types and other Pokemon that used to be set up fodder for Pawniard can now deal with it as they adapted to Ferroseed being popular too; HP Fire is more common on Vileplume, Roselia, and Tangela now. Now I guess you could say that teams preparing for them means that they are still good, but eh I wouldn't make Pawniard A- either way.

TLDR the metagame adapted to Pawniard and other threats since July, and aren't as good anymore since they lost their surprise value (back then im sure a lot of us didn't know what Pawniard rly did) and people prepare for them.

I agree with Bouffalant to B.

I would also like to nominate Ninetales for B or B+; Ninetales is imo rly good right now as it can easily open holes in slower playstyles such as Balance and even Stall thanks to its good movepool and access to Nasty Plot. Energy Ball + Psyshock is fantastic for Ninetales as it allows it to break through common defensive cores such as Vileplume + Ground-Type (Rhydon, Seismitoad) + Hariyama, and can run fun items such as Passho quite easily to lure Water-types such as SD Samurott and Feraligatr thinking that they can pick it off or to potentially set up on Lanturn safely as it will try to Scald Ninetales in hope to KO it. Base 100 Speed is also neat as it will outspeed some of the dangerous base 90s/95s and tie with Typhlosion, which Ninetales can check thanks to Flash Fire. Speaking of Flash Fire, its a really good ability that allows Ninetales to create 50/50s if your opponent use Choice-locked Fire-types such as Typhlosion and 'maybe' Pyroar.

TLDR Ninetales is a really cool Pokemon that shits on balanced teams and on the common Fire-type 'counters', and after playing with it a bunch I think it deserves to be either B or B+.

 

[Raseri]

project of the week :)

Zebraiken will have to update it or something :O

 

[Politoad]

I agree with Ninetales from B to B+. It has an effective way of greeding and is capable of sweeping unprepared teams. It has a powerful STAB in Fire Blast, but has also great coverage to deal with Rhydon and Seismitoad in energy Ball, that would otherwise wall Ninetales. Energy Ball is really good as it hits all of Ninetales' weakness. Fire Blast has tremendous power if you manage to predict a fire-type move and switch Ninetales in.

Also, what are the opinions about Rapidash from D+ to C-/C? look up for my post.

 

[Dentricos]

I agree with Ninetales from B to B+. It has an effective way of greeding and is capable of sweeping unprepared teams. It has a powerful STAB in Fire Blast, but has also great coverage to deal with Rhydon and Seismitoad in energy Ball, that would otherwise wall Ninetales. Energy Ball is really good as it hits all of Ninetales' weakness. Fire Blast has tremendous power if you manage to predict a fire-type move and switch Ninetales in.

Also, what are the opinions about Rapidash from D+ to C-/C? look up for my post.

I agree Ninetales is good and should move up to B but I don't feel it can be on the same level as swellow. If anything swellow could get moved up too.

I think rapidash could work in C- but I'm not sure cause I haven't really used it.

 

[tennisace]

I agree Ninetales is good and should move up to B but I don't feel it can be on the same level as swellow. If anything swellow could get moved up too.

Ninetales has literally nothing to do with Swellow; they serve entirely different purposes. Their ranks shouldn't be remotely dependent on each other because you have some preconceived notion on how good a "sweeper" is.

Anyway I have one: Linoone to B- from C+. It's very easy to bait out Steelix / Ferroseed or just straight up remove them as they both get worn down throughout the match, and after they're gone, there are a ton of Pokemon you can set up a Belly Drum on and sweep. The only thing outside of those two Pokemon that Linoone has to worry about is Fake Out Kangaskhan, but again it can be dealt with before you start a sweep. Normal-spam is rly fun right now and Linoone is a cool option for it!

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Pawniard might have a godly typing, but with its only average speed and lacking attack (without boost anyways) I dont think it is worth A-, Hell I still see this as a C+/B- mon, but B+ i cool I guess. The meta is adapting to it so most of its suprise factor is gone, and that was as I saw it the main draw to its attention (besides cockblocking shiftry)

Rapidash could do C-, but it is really fragile and tends to kill itself really fast with LO+Recoil (LO is WAY better that choice) And it also has a 4MSS which is never nice.

Im fine with Ninetales moving up to B since it is good, but great competition from more appealing firetypes like Typhlosion and Pyroar limits it only to NP sweeping, SubCM and SubDisable (this is underrated as fuck lol) This keeps it out of B+ IMO. NP has a MASSIVE 4MSS, since you want Psyshock, Fire blast, Energy Ball, HP water, Will-o-Wisp and Sub at same time as NP. SubDisable and SubCM is really cool, since you can set up sub on almost any defensive mon and from there do good damage against common defensive cores like VileToad and FerroToad+Audino.

Speaking of SubDisable, I would like to nominate Haunter for B. Its super easy to set up sub and start to fuck over anything. Will-o-Wisp stops any physical attackers bar Gurdurr (which cant do shit because you disable Knock off) and the rare Guts hariyama (same problem). Shadow ball hit quite hard from 115 sp.atk and hits a good majority of the tier for atleast neutral damage. Offensive teams really struggle to deal with this bastard, since almost nothing can switchin without taking a buttload of damage or being crippled. Taunt is also an option over Will-o-wisp if you really hate Audino.
Aside from SubDisable there is Trickscarf and Sub + 3 attacks LO which are both pretty good.

 

[Dentricos]

Ninetales has literally nothing to do with Swellow; they serve entirely different purposes. Their ranks shouldn't be remotely dependent on each other because you have some preconceived notion on how good a "sweeper" is.

Woah what's with all the hostility :(

It's not a preconceived notion lol. I've used both and find that swellow tends to be more useful then ninetales. I've tried tales with multiple sets and kind of like a wierd one but I don't simply don't find them to be on the same level that's all XD It was just a comment based on my personal opinion on the matter...

Personally I don't find linoone to be that threatening because it doesn't force most things to switch. The majority of the time you can go ahead and attack or use status predicting the belly drum. If that's the case linoone might get one espeed off but I personally would rely on it as bait.

 

[Leer]

Woah what's with all the hostility :(

It's not a preconceived notion lol. I've used both and find that swellow tends to be more useful then ninetales. I've tried tales with multiple sets and kind of like a wierd one but I don't simply don't find them to be on the same level that's all XD It was just a comment based on my personal opinion on the matter...

Personally I don't find linoone to be that threatening because it doesn't force most things to switch. The majority of the time you can go ahead and attack or use status predicting the belly drum. If that's the case linoone might get one espeed off but I personally would rely on it as bait.

Just out of curiosity, what do you find Swellow more useful than Ninetales as specifically? What role does both Ninetales and Swellow fill in your eyes? And if it isn't the same role, how can you justifiy comparing them?

 

[Dentricos]

Just out of curiosity, what do you find Swellow more useful than Ninetales as specifically? What role does both Ninetales and Swellow fill in your eyes? And if it isn't the same role, how can you justifiy comparing them?

In my eyes ninetales is good at dismantling popular cores that can be otherwise a nuisance to deal with. It can also set up if your opponent isn't careful and put in work with it's nice coverage and good speed.

Swellow on the other hand can take care of so many things in the meta and can do a huge chunk of damage to seismatoad and weezing excetra. If your opponent is using a rock or a steel type you could either use uturn and gain momentum or, my personal favorite, pursuit. That allows you to take care of your opponents team that they would prefer to save until later. (Often cryogonal, xatu, or Mismagius)

I feel like you need to take into account how good mons are in comparison to each other to properly order them in a list of viability. Swellow can put in so much work in far more situations then ninetales is what I found from my experience with it. But they are both great mons and deserve high rankings.