Pancake's last post screams scum to me but it would be a pretty sloppy justification for joining the wagon on me so I'm leaning towards just mistaken and jumpy af town
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NOC OC NOC GAME OVER - Now Despair
- Thread starter Hitmonleet
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First things first
People playing town: Walrein, LightWolf, ButteredToat
Please playing badly but with their town meta: Haruno, MoodyCloud
People playing town-but-their-scum-meta-is-to-look-extremely-towny-so-I'm-highly-suspicious: Asek
People playing town: Walrein, LightWolf, ButteredToat
Please playing badly but with their town meta: Haruno, MoodyCloud
People playing town-but-their-scum-meta-is-to-look-extremely-towny-so-I'm-highly-suspicious: Asek
ironic
blazade basically summed up my issue with blank slate. remember what i said about weak justification for bandwagoning? blank slate is a textbook example
Don't like that post, we can't just expect to hit scum with our lynches and rely on roles, with numbers like these player dynamics are an important aspect of the lynch imo. I don't like the attitude of mostly sitting back and making a read list before deadline too much either
The point is that we shouldn't be lynching someone "because it gives information" if you have a stronger scum read on someone else.
And I'm literally making a case against Cancerous right now so no accusing me of "sitting back and making a reads list" tyvm
So, re-reading the thread one of the things I wanted to look for was who the initial drivers of the lynch against Walrein and/or LightWolf were, knowing that scum are more likely to start a legitimate wagon against a towny (which I believe Walrein/LightWolf is based on a town slip). Finding someone who was one of the first people on it doesn't confirm someone as scum, but it does add to their case. Post by post of Cancerous then (ignoring post #4 because not-game-relevant):
I'll preface by saying that this post in particular is mostly conjecture.
Cancerous's first post in the game at #15 is a curious one. It's early in the game and so theoretically RVS. One of the things RVS allows you to do though is to look at reasoning and frequency of votes and the reasoning is very intriguing here. Of it's own accord, lynching the first player in the player list seems like a reasonable RVS heuristic but I find interesting his second line: "Who is lightwolf, which coincidentally is also the traditional target of the anual wolf-roll." Firstly, if you're going to lynch based on lynching the player list, that's fine, why do you continue to justify it? Secondly, this line: "Who is lightwolf, which coincidentally is also the traditional target of the anual wolf-roll." sounds to me like he's attempting to throw subtle messaging that would suggest LightWolf has a "wolf" role to discredit him early.
This, combined with the townslip I've seen from LightWolf, suggests to me scum attempting to create meaning for an early wagon against a towny.
/me takes off tin-foil hat
Post number two at #71 has Cancerous answering RQS with answers that are all but complete troll answers. In and of itself this is suspicious as it suggests a desire not to be held accountable to answers later in the game but what makes it more suspicious is that he then states that he dislikes RVS as well! Not only is he unwilling to engage in early game activity via RQS but refuses RVS too! This is a hugely anti-town mentality.
#73 is game irrelevant, token response to Walrein calling out the above post.
What is interesting however is that he then calls out ButteredToast for "answering his question for Walrein". A question that was barely a question. A question derived from his own anti-town post. BTs answer which encompasses 9 words responding to Cancerous and four paragraphs calling out the rest of the thread for shitty RQS. Not only is BTs post beneficial to town, targeting someone for "answering other questions" is one of the easiest low-hanging fruit strategies for scum to push against an eager town.
His question for BT is valid but assumes an unproven premise and thus could be seen as attempting to throw further shade at BT.
This post is fine from either alignment at #124, early enough in the game that a full justification isn't entirely required and aligns with his previous argumentation.
This is Cancerous's final post at #176 and has further scum motivations laced in it. Firstly, to this point Cancerous has mentioned exactly two people at any point in this game outside of RVS: Walrein and ButteredToast. He has pressured no one else, he has interacted with no one else, he has mentioned no one else, he has not even considered the possibility that BTvWalrein is TvT. Tunnelling like this is highly suggestive that he knows that both are town, knows that others are town and doesn't need to focus on reading the rest of the playerbase.
This shows a complete lack of desire to actively engage in scumhunting, choosing instead to tie BT and Walrein together. By linking the two together and implying that flipping one is beneficial to knowing more about the other he provides town incentive to lynch one or the other and subtly ties the two together as a focal point for town, rather than again considering any other options.
Additionally, he states twice that Walrein is a better choice for a lynch but at no point in this, or any other post, does he make an actual case against Walrein or interact with him or show any indication that Walrein has done something scummy.
Tl;dr Cancerous's posts have very little town motivation, a lot of scum motivation, are highly misdirectional and misrepresentative and exclusively target people who are strong town reads.
To reiterate, Unvote, Lynch Cancerous
Cancerous said:
I'll preface by saying that this post in particular is mostly conjecture.
Cancerous's first post in the game at #15 is a curious one. It's early in the game and so theoretically RVS. One of the things RVS allows you to do though is to look at reasoning and frequency of votes and the reasoning is very intriguing here. Of it's own accord, lynching the first player in the player list seems like a reasonable RVS heuristic but I find interesting his second line: "Who is lightwolf, which coincidentally is also the traditional target of the anual wolf-roll." Firstly, if you're going to lynch based on lynching the player list, that's fine, why do you continue to justify it? Secondly, this line: "Who is lightwolf, which coincidentally is also the traditional target of the anual wolf-roll." sounds to me like he's attempting to throw subtle messaging that would suggest LightWolf has a "wolf" role to discredit him early.
This, combined with the townslip I've seen from LightWolf, suggests to me scum attempting to create meaning for an early wagon against a towny.
/me takes off tin-foil hat
Cancerous said:
Post number two at #71 has Cancerous answering RQS with answers that are all but complete troll answers. In and of itself this is suspicious as it suggests a desire not to be held accountable to answers later in the game but what makes it more suspicious is that he then states that he dislikes RVS as well! Not only is he unwilling to engage in early game activity via RQS but refuses RVS too! This is a hugely anti-town mentality.
Cancerous said:
#73 is game irrelevant, token response to Walrein calling out the above post.
Cancerous said:
What is interesting however is that he then calls out ButteredToast for "answering his question for Walrein". A question that was barely a question. A question derived from his own anti-town post. BTs answer which encompasses 9 words responding to Cancerous and four paragraphs calling out the rest of the thread for shitty RQS. Not only is BTs post beneficial to town, targeting someone for "answering other questions" is one of the easiest low-hanging fruit strategies for scum to push against an eager town.
His question for BT is valid but assumes an unproven premise and thus could be seen as attempting to throw further shade at BT.
Cancerous said:
This post is fine from either alignment at #124, early enough in the game that a full justification isn't entirely required and aligns with his previous argumentation.
Cancerous said:
This is Cancerous's final post at #176 and has further scum motivations laced in it. Firstly, to this point Cancerous has mentioned exactly two people at any point in this game outside of RVS: Walrein and ButteredToast. He has pressured no one else, he has interacted with no one else, he has mentioned no one else, he has not even considered the possibility that BTvWalrein is TvT. Tunnelling like this is highly suggestive that he knows that both are town, knows that others are town and doesn't need to focus on reading the rest of the playerbase.
This shows a complete lack of desire to actively engage in scumhunting, choosing instead to tie BT and Walrein together. By linking the two together and implying that flipping one is beneficial to knowing more about the other he provides town incentive to lynch one or the other and subtly ties the two together as a focal point for town, rather than again considering any other options.
Additionally, he states twice that Walrein is a better choice for a lynch but at no point in this, or any other post, does he make an actual case against Walrein or interact with him or show any indication that Walrein has done something scummy.
Tl;dr Cancerous's posts have very little town motivation, a lot of scum motivation, are highly misdirectional and misrepresentative and exclusively target people who are strong town reads.
To reiterate, Unvote, Lynch Cancerous
hi guys, not dead. Midterms just suck. I've been trying to keep up with the thread but with however many people we have in this game holy fuck it's hard.
Reads starting from page 8.
Scum lean on Cancerous for 176, I'm not quite sure how I feel about walrein atm, but general gut read from my brisk reading since yesterday has him at a lean town (note, not based on evidence, just gut feeling). I guess I also don't like the "lynch has to be on this person or this person" as it feels like a good framing tool for scum to use to set up a lynch on two people who they know aren't scum. ie if cancerous is scum I find it likely BT and walrein are locktown.
BT in post #178 talks about lynching Martin, I'll echo whoever said it, lynching someone for inactivity or subbing out typically is pretty awful and nonalignment indicative. That said I've never seen you in a game before and thus I'm not sure your level of experience so this could just be a nooby mistake? (That said, if someone else happens to know if they should know better, might move this to a more scummy view for me)
Fort in post #180 feels bad, but also feels sorta legit. Either he's jumping on the haruno joke to get him lynched or he's effected by the 'haruno charm' and lynching him.
On that note, general read on haruno is really hard, I don't like him trying to lynch martin. That said, this guy is so hard to read since he is almost universally read as scum no matter the game, this game he's been pretty lacking of activity (which I mean, who am I to call out someone on) so I guess I see the justification on his scum read-ing, but I stay dubious.
Don't like martins post jumping on the haruno wagon (in the back of my mind a martin/Fort push feels conjointed, worth looking into)
I still generally like asek's post and I have them as likely town.
Also like LW pushing conversation, very very slight protown lean sine they seem to be the main person pushing for information rather than someone to be lynched.
Beyond that...I'm running out of time, but there's a good chunk of reads based off of page 8 and some of page 9
Reads starting from page 8.
Scum lean on Cancerous for 176, I'm not quite sure how I feel about walrein atm, but general gut read from my brisk reading since yesterday has him at a lean town (note, not based on evidence, just gut feeling). I guess I also don't like the "lynch has to be on this person or this person" as it feels like a good framing tool for scum to use to set up a lynch on two people who they know aren't scum. ie if cancerous is scum I find it likely BT and walrein are locktown.
BT in post #178 talks about lynching Martin, I'll echo whoever said it, lynching someone for inactivity or subbing out typically is pretty awful and nonalignment indicative. That said I've never seen you in a game before and thus I'm not sure your level of experience so this could just be a nooby mistake? (That said, if someone else happens to know if they should know better, might move this to a more scummy view for me)
Fort in post #180 feels bad, but also feels sorta legit. Either he's jumping on the haruno joke to get him lynched or he's effected by the 'haruno charm' and lynching him.
On that note, general read on haruno is really hard, I don't like him trying to lynch martin. That said, this guy is so hard to read since he is almost universally read as scum no matter the game, this game he's been pretty lacking of activity (which I mean, who am I to call out someone on) so I guess I see the justification on his scum read-ing, but I stay dubious.
Don't like martins post jumping on the haruno wagon (in the back of my mind a martin/Fort push feels conjointed, worth looking into)
I still generally like asek's post and I have them as likely town.
Also like LW pushing conversation, very very slight protown lean sine they seem to be the main person pushing for information rather than someone to be lynched.
Beyond that...I'm running out of time, but there's a good chunk of reads based off of page 8 and some of page 9
Jesus christ no kidding, that justification was thinner than Trump's ego
That being said I'm inclined to view posts as weak as those as lynchbait on day 1 and wouldn't want to lynch them without some correlating evidence yet
Similar reasoning to why I wouldn't want a BT wagon
Similar reasoning to why I wouldn't want a BT wagon
acidphoenix smashlloyd20 shubaka17 KnightsofCydonia Aubisio Whydon Vanillish Wafer
With 2.5 hours to deadline y'all best be ready to contribute in some way
With 2.5 hours to deadline y'all best be ready to contribute in some way
You don't say.
Perhaps try asking questions or pressuring people or looking for scum tells rather than implicitly asking the game to make your choice for you.
Is it any wonder you get policy lynched every game?
I will drop the Moody angle for now simply because I can already tell it'd take way too much arguing to get what I wanted out of that line of questioning, and we simply don't have the time nor do I want to take over the thread with an argument not likely to bear fruit before deadline.
Aubisio why are you only deci9ding between those 2 specifically. Different and wierd are neither really acceptable nor easily understandable, especially when we have no idea what the normal you are comparing them to is.
Unvote Vote Haruno
Probably my most comfortable lynch from those with enough traction behind it, especially when Haruno already had chances to respond to criticism and laughed them off.(literally posted LMAO and nothing else in one post).
Also can people stop town reading me? I really dislike people not scrutinizing me and it always makes me think mafia is banking on calling me clean just because they don't expect me to fuck up.
Aubisio why are you only deci9ding between those 2 specifically. Different and wierd are neither really acceptable nor easily understandable, especially when we have no idea what the normal you are comparing them to is.
Unvote Vote Haruno
Probably my most comfortable lynch from those with enough traction behind it, especially when Haruno already had chances to respond to criticism and laughed them off.(literally posted LMAO and nothing else in one post).
Also can people stop town reading me? I really dislike people not scrutinizing me and it always makes me think mafia is banking on calling me clean just because they don't expect me to fuck up.
two of those are some of the towniest people in the game and the third one is me, please don't do this
i agree that texas is playing to a different meta but given that he's a newer player i would expect his meta to change rapidly as he gains experience
moody is stubborn and his logic isn't the best but like i said earlier, wrong != scum. his arguments have been logically consistent (even if the logic is Bad) and i don't think a mafia member would be so blatantly against the grain in his thinking
as for me... i guess i don't get how i'm playing differently. whatever. but at least read the content of my posts instead of just glancing at how they were made
LightWolf what're your thoughts on blank slate? asking for a friend
Haruno definitely hasn't given us any reason not to lynch him with his posting
Problem is I've seen him do that and get mislynched literally four separate times as town :/
Problem is I've seen him do that and get mislynched literally four separate times as town :/
Hmm
I'm unsure what to make of Haruno's reaction to my vote, but it doesn't exactly make him seem more or less scummy to me (saying that I'm untrustworthy because I haven't posted all game makes very little sense, but his rationale for going after Walrein early is fine...but also would be the scum reaction). That said, nobody obviously sticks out as a lynch target here. Blank seems like kind of an obvious choice, but I feel like his reactions have been more from jumpiness than actual scuminess. Walrein would probably give us a lot of info on flip, but I feel like he's competent enough where he's more useful alive than dead for the moment. Moody would probably be my choice if I HAD to pick someone right now who isn't Haruno, but he just seems more like an aggressive town than scum at the moment.
Staying with Haruno for the moment but might change closer to deadline
I'm unsure what to make of Haruno's reaction to my vote, but it doesn't exactly make him seem more or less scummy to me (saying that I'm untrustworthy because I haven't posted all game makes very little sense, but his rationale for going after Walrein early is fine...but also would be the scum reaction). That said, nobody obviously sticks out as a lynch target here. Blank seems like kind of an obvious choice, but I feel like his reactions have been more from jumpiness than actual scuminess. Walrein would probably give us a lot of info on flip, but I feel like he's competent enough where he's more useful alive than dead for the moment. Moody would probably be my choice if I HAD to pick someone right now who isn't Haruno, but he just seems more like an aggressive town than scum at the moment.
Staying with Haruno for the moment but might change closer to deadline
I don't like the sound of a Haruno lynch because should he be town acting trolly in yet another game, we'd get nothing out of it as far as I can see. Blankslate, cancerous and smashlloyd whose last few post felt off to me, are lynches I'd agree with however.
Busy combing through past pages and I've got to be out the door for RL in about an hour (Thursday's my day for volunteering). I might not get my reads posted before deadline.
How can getting nothing out of it be a reason against haruno, while at the same time not applying to two people with essentially only 1 meaningful post which are 2\3 of your list. Also where Walrein from that, I do not recall you ever formerly dropping him(though your previous posts may have been hinting at that) I want the air clear on that so you can't go back on it in the future just willy nilly.
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