Edited the post. Did you not complete your sentence at the end there? The idea was still there, so it didn't matter too much, but thanks for the advice!
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Resource ORAS Good Cores (Check Post #714)
- Thread starter boltsandbombers
- Start date
- Status
I accidentally deleted part of it lol, will add the core.
I'd like to put up and argument against declining my core. I've used that core to great effect, Wobbuffet alone might be a little dead weigh against certain teams, same with Gothitelle. However, together they can effectively cover each others weak points.
Gothitelle struggles against Hyper offence, there are no walls on Hyper offence that are worth trapping. Generally I'd only use to get switch initiative, or to revenge kill it or to trap Mega Lopunny and revenge kill Gengar. Wobbufett does have a field day against Hyper offence, as pokemon who are staples on HO rarely carry any status moves, and if they do it's usually a set up move. For example, let's take Mega Pinsir. If Mega Pinsir comes in on Wobbufett the best play for you is to Encore. If Mega Pinsir Returns, it fails too 2HKO and you're free to use counter, removing a massive threat. If Mega Pinsir locks himself into Swords dance you can switch into Gothitelle can 2HKO with Thunderbolt.
0 SpA Gothitelle Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Pinsir: 136-160 (50.1 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Momentum grabbers are difficult to deal with, but Wobbuffet can go for counter/the other thingy and deal a hefty chunk to whatever comes in
This is something you're free to do with a plethora of threads. There are few pokemon who are able to deal with both of these reliably. Mega Sableye, Gengar, varients of Tyranitar, Mega Gardevoir to an extent, Mega Gyarados, Bisharp has some fun as well, but it doesn't OHKO Wobbuffet with Knock off and there's probably a few more who I'm forgetting, but I played roughly 200 matches with this core and peaked 13#
That's not a reason enough for it be a accepted, but my final say in the matter is that collectively these two are able to trap, cripple and kill 99% of the metagame.
Thank you
Dual trapping, Goth + Wobb specifically, in all honesty is cancer and is such a mindless concept that anyone can pull off and succeed with due to the nature of removing a bunch of skill out of the equation. I don't agree with the idea that it's an effective core when its Pursuit trappable, U-Turn prone, and in reality paves the way for so much momentum loss because it only works in small situations where the player either screwed up somewhere (like keeping Gliscor in) or is just bad to begin with. I think it's a pointless core but bad players use that Gothitelle, Wobb, Gothirita, Wynaut, CharX, Azu team all the time and somehow make it work rofl but I guess that's ladder for you. I think Goth + Wobb in practice is a terrible idea, which it is if you actually see these two try to handle a prepped team, where as something like Goth + Mag, Mag + Wobb, Dugtrio + Wobb, Dugtrio + Goth works more efficiently because they actually break down defensive builds more easily for a set up sweeper to clean up afterwards. You're free to add it in on the premise that it can work but you're overhyping it if you're seriously thinking this is working on the level that it's going to handle Pinsir rofl.
It doesn't matter if it's cancer? This core isn't made to trap defensive types, it's to pick a apart all types of playstyles. And who cares if it's a mindless concept? Isn't putting three bird types on your team and clicking brave bird equally simple?
How is "I'd like to see these two try to handle a prepped team" a valid argument in any situation? You said we should rather use a combination of Magnezone+Dugtrio/Magnezone+Goth ect ect. but they handle one or two specific playstyles while Goth + Wobbuffet handles all playstyles efficiently
These two aren't made to sweep a team, they're made to pick apart offensive AND defensively cores. If "I'd like to see these two try to handle a prepped team" is a valid argument you can just go ahead and remove this entire thread, none of these cores work against prepped teams.
No matter who Mega Pinsir comes in on versus this core it loses, it's one of many.
How can you say I'm over hyping it? I'm disagreeing with Boltsandbombers decision, and asking him kindly to reconsider.
Thank you
AM explained the reasoning pretty darn well, I'm not adding the core.
End of story.
Move on, thanks.
On another note, I'm going to be making a section for weather cores tomorrow when I get home, so if you have any weather cores you'd like to share that haven't been posted go right ahead
End of story.
Move on, thanks.
On another note, I'm going to be making a section for weather cores tomorrow when I get home, so if you have any weather cores you'd like to share that haven't been posted go right ahead
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Ok, I know a Tyrantrum core was already posted, but why not, let's do another one. It's hilariously fun to use and I love using this core (only used it for 2 days but got a solid amount of battles in so eh)
Tyrantrum + Zard X + Rotom-W
Tyrantrum @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Head Smash
- Dragon Claw
- Superpower
- Toxic
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split
Overview
Ok, so I was itching to use Tyrantrum now that it got Rock Head and could spam CB Head Smashes with ease. After running a couple calcs, I was amazed to find that it OHKO'ed Scarf Lando-T after rocks, and 2HKO'ed both Slowbro and Mega Slowbro after Rocks. These 2 were probably the only things that currently stop Zard X from sweeping their respective playstyles, so I figured that I might as well use it alongside Tyrantrum. I have Adamant Zard, not Jolly, simply for what I stated earlier, that TTrum already OHKO'es Scarf LandT. However, the spread of 104 / 220 / 184 Jolly is still perfectly viable and could possibly be a better variation; it depends on which you prefer. Afterwards, this core was looking really Water and Ground weak, and a bit slow too. I figured the best option to remedy this would be Twave Rotom-W. What's amazing about Twave Rotom-W with this core, is that Twave catches many Lati@s on the switch, which I've found to be the most common revenge killer of TTrum (and Zard too, barring a +1 already). To top it off, Volt Switching on a para'd Lati gets a free switch in to TTrum, and essentially a free kill. Volt Switch in general is great utility when you have frailer mons like TTrum.
Threats
Threats to this core include things like Lando-I, KyuB, Quagsire, some variants of Lando-T (setup), Latios prior to para, and Lead Breloom can be annoying too. Many of these mons cannot switch into the core (like cmon, what is switching into BOTH TTrum and Zard X), but can come in after a kill and get a free KO in return, so it is recommended I have checks to these to prevent a mindless kill-for-kill match, and to put you ahead of the opponent (who is likely lacking switch-ins to this core).
Partners
Partners for this core include a U-Turner, Stealth Rocker, and Defogger/Spinner. Something to handle Ground types along with Rotom-W is recommended, as many Grounds carry either lure moves to catch the ever-so-common washing machine, or partners that can completely take advantage of it. For example, Celebi can fit many of these roles, spreading paralysis, setting up Rocks, finishing a voltturn and F/W/G core, etc. Ferrothorn provides similar uses, but trades the ability to U-Turn and stacking a Fighting weakness to be able to deal with KyuB. Possible hazard removers include:
Unless I missed something, those are the best hazard removers for this core (hazard removing is very important as TTrum gets worn down after a few SR + Spikes switch ins and Zard is Zard :s), and the best overall partners that come to my mind. Of course, feel free to use something completely different or wild if you're feeling it or you found a great new partner that I didn't see before.
- Scizor (which is particularly nice for beating KyuB and can U-Turn from a Heatran into TTrum, which equates to a free kill)
- Lati@s (stacks a lot of weaknesses but can be used for DragSpam if you wanted to, and HWish if Latias)
- Excadrill (stacks Fighting weak but shares a lot of the checks and counters that TTrum and Zard have, so it can weaken them for each other)
- Starmie (doesn't provide too much synergy bar beating Fightings, so if you really hate stuff like Conkeldurr then go for it I guess)
(Toxic on TTrum is for Hippowdon and Quagsire, as those are probably the only 2 mons that can wall both Zard X and TTrum. Toxic'ing them is great to whittle them down for Zard later in the match)
That's about it for this core, please tell me if you found any way to make the core more efficient, it'd be highly appreciated! Good luck building your teams and have fun while you're at it! n__n
Quick question, for the sake of discussion: If you decide to run Toxic on, say, a Ferrothorn or Hippowdon in lieu of TTrum, what are its alternate choices, and what do they accomplish? (ex. Earthquake, Crunch, Zen Headbutt) To that end, have you looked at the problems of only having 3 attacks on a CB user, and is reserving a slot solely for Quag and Hippo worth it in the long run over a 4th move for coverage?
I'm currently testing this core, and I see no problems with the coverage so far, but have you found a situation where Toxic was not the optimal move to have? (So far, I haven't come across this problem, seeing as I'm spamming Head Smash 99% of the time, but I'd like to hear if it does present problems.)
Not really so far, as like you said, 99% of the time Head Smash is going to be your move of choice. I haven't really wished that I had, say, Zen Headbutt on it over Toxic so far, as Dragon Claw/Outrage does a ton to Fightings anyway (so does Head Smash if it's an offensive Fighting lmao). I mean, I guess if you really needed to smack Chesnaught on the switch you might want Zen, but I haven't really needed a move over Toxic simply because Head Smash is so powerful.
core dump :D
Mega Sableye + Clefable
people know how much the metagame is adapting to mega sableye, and i tried Living So Zambian's metal burst mega sableye to deal with pretty much all of clefable's checks. mega sableye can take advantage of heatran trying to pressure mega sableye with lava plume by using knock off on it, removing Leftovers, meaning it can no longer check Clefable, since it is worn down easily as seen in Tele v. Bloo match in OLT (except mega scizor used knock off, no sableye), and metal burst KOs mega charizard y taking 88% max from modest fire blast. who even uses this crap. modest flamethower is all out best option and timid fire blast does like 70%. all of the other checks are walled by mega sableye like bisharp, cobalion, jirachi if no hax, excadrill, and bronzong. landorus-i takes a huge chunk dying after 2 stealth rock switch ins iirc, meaning it can no longer beat clefable. mega gardevoir and sylveon are huge pains to this core, so running jirachi would be pretty nice. the one thing i like about using this core on stall is because it provides you an excellent win condition, and it is not passive at all. opposing calm mind boosters like shadow ball reuniclus and suicune are problematic so have answers. its a pretty solid core because it capitalizes on calm mind clefable's effectiveness.
Mega Houndoom + Latios + Gyarados
this core is based around mega houndoom's ability to spread burns to common switch-ins to it like tyranitar and azumarill. latios abuses the ability to 2HKO tar with draco meteor safely and gyarados can set up on these threats easily combined with intimidate. the double win condition is honestly the best part about this core. mega houndoom became a hidden gem after greninja's ban because of the amount of balanced teams. gyarados can set up easily against offensive teams and can sweep with a substitute and dragon dance boost under its belt. ferrothorn walling mega gyarados? no problem, mega houndoom takes care of these pesky balance builds. latios provides important defog support while checking keldeo, landorus-i, and zardy, which are all over the place. this core really abuses mega houndoom's ability to spread burns allowing gyarados / latios or mega houndoom to sweep itself, and each component of this core has a way to deal with every relevant playstyle. a good teammate is landorus-t because it creates a nice dual intimidate core with gyarados reducing the need for a scarfer or losing momentum because you are forced to run clefable to not get mauled by life orb thundurus. its a fun core and i hope you guys try it.
also the tyrantrum / zardx core is ridiculous and extremely powerful - nice core Croven
Mega Sableye + Clefable
people know how much the metagame is adapting to mega sableye, and i tried Living So Zambian's metal burst mega sableye to deal with pretty much all of clefable's checks. mega sableye can take advantage of heatran trying to pressure mega sableye with lava plume by using knock off on it, removing Leftovers, meaning it can no longer check Clefable, since it is worn down easily as seen in Tele v. Bloo match in OLT (except mega scizor used knock off, no sableye), and metal burst KOs mega charizard y taking 88% max from modest fire blast. who even uses this crap. modest flamethower is all out best option and timid fire blast does like 70%. all of the other checks are walled by mega sableye like bisharp, cobalion, jirachi if no hax, excadrill, and bronzong. landorus-i takes a huge chunk dying after 2 stealth rock switch ins iirc, meaning it can no longer beat clefable. mega gardevoir and sylveon are huge pains to this core, so running jirachi would be pretty nice. the one thing i like about using this core on stall is because it provides you an excellent win condition, and it is not passive at all. opposing calm mind boosters like shadow ball reuniclus and suicune are problematic so have answers. its a pretty solid core because it capitalizes on calm mind clefable's effectiveness.
Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Metal Burst
- Recover
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Metal Burst
- Recover
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
Mega Houndoom + Latios + Gyarados
this core is based around mega houndoom's ability to spread burns to common switch-ins to it like tyranitar and azumarill. latios abuses the ability to 2HKO tar with draco meteor safely and gyarados can set up on these threats easily combined with intimidate. the double win condition is honestly the best part about this core. mega houndoom became a hidden gem after greninja's ban because of the amount of balanced teams. gyarados can set up easily against offensive teams and can sweep with a substitute and dragon dance boost under its belt. ferrothorn walling mega gyarados? no problem, mega houndoom takes care of these pesky balance builds. latios provides important defog support while checking keldeo, landorus-i, and zardy, which are all over the place. this core really abuses mega houndoom's ability to spread burns allowing gyarados / latios or mega houndoom to sweep itself, and each component of this core has a way to deal with every relevant playstyle. a good teammate is landorus-t because it creates a nice dual intimidate core with gyarados reducing the need for a scarfer or losing momentum because you are forced to run clefable to not get mauled by life orb thundurus. its a fun core and i hope you guys try it.
Houndoom @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Will-O-Wisp
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Dragon Dance
Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Roost
- Defog
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Will-O-Wisp
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Dragon Dance
Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Roost
- Defog
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Man so many offensive cores in the OP.
Balanced Core: M-Altaria + Reuniclus + Toxicroak
+
+
Core I've been playing around with which some of you may or may not have seen but whatever it's here now. M-Altaria is annoyed by such threats such as Heatran with the particular spread so Reuniclus and Toxicroak provide some relief and provides a more consistent Keldeo check. Runs Toxic to wear down the Zards, Double Dance M-Slowbro, and Talonflame to name a few threats which threaten the core. Reuniclus is the defensive win condition and stall-breaker more or less and helps break down slower builds along with providing a secondary check to M-Lopunny and various Fighting types in the tier. Toxicroak helps with beating Fairies such as Azumarill and Clefable, along with bothers for the core such as Bisharp, Breloom, and Mamoswine along with some offensive presence with its priority move of Sucker Punch. Good partners include defensive ground types such as Gliscor, Lando-T, Hippowdon, and Rocky Helmet Garchomp along with hazard removal such as Starmie or Excadrill. Steel types to tack on tools for Fairy types so partners such as Bisharp, Scizor, Excadrill, can work. Along the lines of those something to help alleviate Sand Offense, have a ground immunity, and tools to improve your matchup against offense such as Thunder Wave Ferrothorn, Scarf Lando-T, Torn-T, so forth. Core works well on Sand Offense to so that's worth a shot.
Offensive Core: Charizard-X + Mamoswine + Gengar
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+
I actually use Char-X with a weird as shit set that'll numb your brain and turn this into a more balanced approach but for simplicity sake I'll just leave it as its offensive DDance set. DDance Zard-X for set up sweeping not too much else to say other than with EQ you have a better match-up against Tyranitar and Heatran which the partners of the core don't mind fighting it but don't like switching into either so there's that. Mamoswine is just 4 attacks Life Orb with Knock Off to break down Balanced and Stall a bit better, specifically helping with the very dangerous threat of the Genies. I like the immediate power of Icicle Crash but if your'e really worried about the ancient max speed Sub Gliscor set (lol), then you can go Icicle Spear. Gengar is subsplit attacker that stall-breaks the defensive builds that give Char-X and Mamoswine trouble. So I guess you can look at the core as Char-X for a tool against offense and balanced, Mamoswine for a tool against balanced and stall, and Gengar as a tool against balanced and stall as well. Basic anti-meta core that likes to be paired with Fairy types such as Azumarill and Clefable with the latter as being what I use. Pursuit support through the use of Tyranitar can help alleviate pressure from the Lati twins. Speaking of the latis, they can be used as well for the team to provide hazard removal and in the case of Latias Healing Wish and in the case of Latios Memento and Heal Block depending on what threatens you more. A solid grass type like Celebi to check Keldeo works to and an SD Pass variant can be used to improve Char-X and Mamos wallbreaking potential or Nasty Plot Pass for Gengar.
Had more but I'm tired.
Balanced Core: M-Altaria + Reuniclus + Toxicroak
Core I've been playing around with which some of you may or may not have seen but whatever it's here now. M-Altaria is annoyed by such threats such as Heatran with the particular spread so Reuniclus and Toxicroak provide some relief and provides a more consistent Keldeo check. Runs Toxic to wear down the Zards, Double Dance M-Slowbro, and Talonflame to name a few threats which threaten the core. Reuniclus is the defensive win condition and stall-breaker more or less and helps break down slower builds along with providing a secondary check to M-Lopunny and various Fighting types in the tier. Toxicroak helps with beating Fairies such as Azumarill and Clefable, along with bothers for the core such as Bisharp, Breloom, and Mamoswine along with some offensive presence with its priority move of Sucker Punch. Good partners include defensive ground types such as Gliscor, Lando-T, Hippowdon, and Rocky Helmet Garchomp along with hazard removal such as Starmie or Excadrill. Steel types to tack on tools for Fairy types so partners such as Bisharp, Scizor, Excadrill, can work. Along the lines of those something to help alleviate Sand Offense, have a ground immunity, and tools to improve your matchup against offense such as Thunder Wave Ferrothorn, Scarf Lando-T, Torn-T, so forth. Core works well on Sand Offense to so that's worth a shot.
Altaria (F) @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Toxic / Earthquake (if using EQ put attack IVs back to 31)
- Fire Blast
- Roost
Reuniclus (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast / Shadow Ball
- Recover
- Calm Mind
Toxicroak (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Swords Dance
Ability: Cloud Nine
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Toxic / Earthquake (if using EQ put attack IVs back to 31)
- Fire Blast
- Roost
Reuniclus (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast / Shadow Ball
- Recover
- Calm Mind
Toxicroak (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Swords Dance
I actually use Char-X with a weird as shit set that'll numb your brain and turn this into a more balanced approach but for simplicity sake I'll just leave it as its offensive DDance set. DDance Zard-X for set up sweeping not too much else to say other than with EQ you have a better match-up against Tyranitar and Heatran which the partners of the core don't mind fighting it but don't like switching into either so there's that. Mamoswine is just 4 attacks Life Orb with Knock Off to break down Balanced and Stall a bit better, specifically helping with the very dangerous threat of the Genies. I like the immediate power of Icicle Crash but if your'e really worried about the ancient max speed Sub Gliscor set (lol), then you can go Icicle Spear. Gengar is subsplit attacker that stall-breaks the defensive builds that give Char-X and Mamoswine trouble. So I guess you can look at the core as Char-X for a tool against offense and balanced, Mamoswine for a tool against balanced and stall, and Gengar as a tool against balanced and stall as well. Basic anti-meta core that likes to be paired with Fairy types such as Azumarill and Clefable with the latter as being what I use. Pursuit support through the use of Tyranitar can help alleviate pressure from the Lati twins. Speaking of the latis, they can be used as well for the team to provide hazard removal and in the case of Latias Healing Wish and in the case of Latios Memento and Heal Block depending on what threatens you more. A solid grass type like Celebi to check Keldeo works to and an SD Pass variant can be used to improve Char-X and Mamos wallbreaking potential or Nasty Plot Pass for Gengar.
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 104 HP / 220 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
- Pain Split
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 104 HP / 220 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
- Pain Split
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An offensive core I've been playing with success:
I think this core is pretty basic. M-Altaria hate stuff like Ferro, Skarmory, Scizor, M-Venus, Amoonguss, Gengar. Which all is either "fixed" or set-up fodder for the mighty phoenix. Talonflame himself hates Heatran and Rotom-W, which M-Altaria can set up on or bop.
On M-Altaria: Return is a powerful stab that is used the majority of the time, and for a good reason. STAB+Pixilate boosted Return hits like a truck with a total of 195,65 BP! Earthquake is just for steel/poison/fire-types that eats up the Return. Dragon Dance is to make the bop bigger. And Sub is used for easier time setting up on pokémon that is relying on status like Rotom-W, non-Jolly Breloom, M-Sableye, Gliscor (to an extant), Alomomola and many other pokémon that isn't mentioned. It also prevent M-Alt from being revenge killed, which is really nice! Roost can be used to recover back the damage M-Alt has taken, but lives it really vurnable to incoming attacks. The set is to outspeed neutral natured base 70 at +0, Torn-T at +1, and everything but stuff like Sand Rush/ Swift Swimmers and Scarf base 110s like Latios at +2.
On Talonflame: BB and Flare Blitz is for damage, Swords Dance for increasing the Atk to scary levels. Roost is to heal of damage taken. The Spe Evs makes Talonflame outspeed Max Spe Raikou so u can bop it /w Flare Blitz, and to outspeed all Talonflame except max Spe Jolly variants. Shell Bell and Lefties for passive recovery. LO can be used for extra firepower, but the recoil isn't that nice.
Threats to the core is bulky Lando-T, Scarfed Tyranitar locked into Stone Edge, AB Heatran, Unaware users, faster opposing Talonflame. If M-Alt is unboosted, M-Diancie giggle at them both. Neither of them likes to switch into moves, M-Altaria doesn't have recovery (if running sub), and Talonflame is just kind of frail. So a Voltturn core fits really well together with this one. LO Gengar fits pretty well in by checking Clefable and M-Diancie. (Healing) Wish support is great as always for pokémon without recovery, Latias fits this role nice as it can defog hazards as well.
Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Substitute / Roost
Talonflame @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Substitute / Roost
Talonflame @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost
I think this core is pretty basic. M-Altaria hate stuff like Ferro, Skarmory, Scizor, M-Venus, Amoonguss, Gengar. Which all is either "fixed" or set-up fodder for the mighty phoenix. Talonflame himself hates Heatran and Rotom-W, which M-Altaria can set up on or bop.
On M-Altaria: Return is a powerful stab that is used the majority of the time, and for a good reason. STAB+Pixilate boosted Return hits like a truck with a total of 195,65 BP! Earthquake is just for steel/poison/fire-types that eats up the Return. Dragon Dance is to make the bop bigger. And Sub is used for easier time setting up on pokémon that is relying on status like Rotom-W, non-Jolly Breloom, M-Sableye, Gliscor (to an extant), Alomomola and many other pokémon that isn't mentioned. It also prevent M-Alt from being revenge killed, which is really nice! Roost can be used to recover back the damage M-Alt has taken, but lives it really vurnable to incoming attacks. The set is to outspeed neutral natured base 70 at +0, Torn-T at +1, and everything but stuff like Sand Rush/ Swift Swimmers and Scarf base 110s like Latios at +2.
On Talonflame: BB and Flare Blitz is for damage, Swords Dance for increasing the Atk to scary levels. Roost is to heal of damage taken. The Spe Evs makes Talonflame outspeed Max Spe Raikou so u can bop it /w Flare Blitz, and to outspeed all Talonflame except max Spe Jolly variants. Shell Bell and Lefties for passive recovery. LO can be used for extra firepower, but the recoil isn't that nice.
Threats to the core is bulky Lando-T, Scarfed Tyranitar locked into Stone Edge, AB Heatran, Unaware users, faster opposing Talonflame. If M-Alt is unboosted, M-Diancie giggle at them both. Neither of them likes to switch into moves, M-Altaria doesn't have recovery (if running sub), and Talonflame is just kind of frail. So a Voltturn core fits really well together with this one. LO Gengar fits pretty well in by checking Clefable and M-Diancie. (Healing) Wish support is great as always for pokémon without recovery, Latias fits this role nice as it can defog hazards as well.
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An offensive core I've been playing with success:
Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Substitute / Roost
Talonflame @ Shell Bell / Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost
I think this core is pretty basic. M-Altaria hate stuff like Ferro, Skarmory, Scizor, M-Venus, Amoonguss, Gengar. Which all is either "fixed" or set-up fodder for the mighty phoenix. Talonflame himself hates Heatran and Rotom-W, which M-Altaria can set up on or bop.
On M-Altaria: Return is a powerful stab that is used the majority of the time, and for a good reason. STAB+Pixilate boosted Return hits like a truck with a total of 195,65 BP! Earthquake is just for steel/poison/fire-types that eats up the Return. Dragon Dance is to make the bop bigger. And Sub is used for easier time setting up on pokémon that is relying on status like Rotom-W, non-Jolly Breloom, M-Sableye, Gliscor (to an extant), Alomomola and many other pokémon that isn't mentioned. It also prevent M-Alt from being revenge killed, which is really nice! Roost can be used to recover back the damage M-Alt has taken, but lives it really vurnable to incoming attacks. The set is to outspeed neutral natured base 70 at +0, Torn-T at +1, and everything but stuff like Sand Rush/ Swift Swimmers and Scarf base 110s like Latios at +2.
On Talonflame: BB and Flare Blitz is for damage, Swords Dance for increasing the Atk to scary levels. Roost is to heal of damage taken. The Spe Evs makes Talonflame outspeed Max Spe Raikou so u can bop it /w Flare Blitz, and to outspeed all Talonflame except max Spe Jolly variants. Shell Bell and Lefties for passive recovery. LO can be used for extra firepower, but the recoil isn't that nice.
Threats to the core is bulky Lando-T, Scarfed Tyranitar locked into Stone Edge, AB Heatran, Unaware users, faster opposing Talonflame. If M-Alt is unboosted, M-Diancie giggle at them both. Neither of them likes to switch into moves, M-Altaria doesn't have recovery (if running sub), and Talonflame is just kind of frail. So a Voltturn core fits really well together with this one. LO Gengar fits pretty well in by checking Clefable and M-Diancie. (Healing) Wish support is great as always for pokémon without recovery, Latias fits this role nice as it can defog hazards as well.
First, I don't see why you would run Cloud Nine. Natural Cure is much better, as it allows non-Mevoed Altaria to switch in on Scalds. Also, it already checks Rain Sweepers and Char-Y, who outspeed it anyway. And besides, you're going to mega-evolve turn one anyway. Second, Adamant>Jolly on Talonflame. Brave Bird is a priority attack, and Talon really needs the extra power. Also, Leftovers is always superior of Shell Bell; take Shell Bell off the set. Thanks for contributing.
EDIT:
To clarify, I think Natural Cure is better on this particular set. I personally do not see why you would run Cloud Nine on non-Heal Bell Altaria.
Actually, for Talonflame, doesn't Jolly with 168 speed EVs allow you to outspeed max speed Raikou if it comes in on SD? Given that a +2 Sharp Beak Talonflame can't OHKO Raikou, I would think that it would be a useful bench mark. Granted, LO does OHKO at +2, but I was under the impression that no one really likes taking LO recoil on top of BB and Flare Blitz recoil.
Thats a pretty nice Core I use on my Balance team sometimes, because Jirachi is really good atm in my opinion, it beats all the special fairies and takes Dracos which Hippo doesnt appreciate. Hippowdon works very well with Jirachi because it takes on Bisharp, Talonflame, and every physicall Ground mon, that threatens Jirachi, and it also doesnt really mind getting knocked off which makes it a really great Rachi Parnter. You might want to add a bulky Water type to the Core because this core hates getting burned and can deal very well with Heatran while it checks takes care of electric types, so something like a Sub CM Keldeo, Tentacruel or Starmie is a really good addition.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 224 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Fire Punch
- Iron Head
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Rock Slide / Whirlwind / Toxic
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 224 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Fire Punch
- Iron Head
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Rock Slide / Whirlwind / Toxic
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Yeah, Jolly is the standard on SD Talon.
I use Cloud Nine so I can easier set up on Zard-Y (like switch in on a Solar Beam), never found any use of Natural Cure. But that's just something that's up to each person. On Talonflame I prefer the Speed and bulk over Atk just 'cause she already get a whole bunch of Atk from SD, and I haven't been in need of the extra power. But if u aren't afraid of opposing Raikou and Talonflame stopping a sweep, then fine by me, I won't stop u.
Excellent core, I was just thinking about this one, you read my mind !_!
Thats a pretty nice Core I use on my Balance team sometimes, because Jirachi is really good atm in my opinion, it beats all the special fairies and takes Dracos which Hippo doesnt appreciate. Hippowdon works very well with Jirachi because it takes on Bisharp, Talonflame, and every physicall Ground mon, that threatens Jirachi, and it also doesnt really mind getting knocked off which makes it a really great Rachi Parnter. You might want to add a bulky Water type to the Core because this core hates getting burned and can deal very well with Heatran while it checks takes care of electric types, so something like a Sub CM Keldeo, Tentacruel or Starmie is a really good addition.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 224 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Fire Punch
- Iron Head
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Rock Slide/Whirlwind
Put toxic in place of whirlwind or at least make the slashes rock move / toxic / whirlwind, as its really helpful for setup sweepers and hitting opposing bulky grounds like the Landorus formes.
Thank you :]
ok I changed it. But I feel like you can really variate this Cores moves, you can put rocks on rachi, change rachis set to almost everything and it will still work pretty well, but I have decided for Wish tect Rachi because it forces many switches and you can Wish on the switch and heal up your team very well with it. :]
ok I changed it. But I feel like you can really variate this Cores moves, you can put rocks on rachi, change rachis set to almost everything and it will still work pretty well, but I have decided for Wish tect Rachi because it forces many switches and you can Wish on the switch and heal up your team very well with it. :]
No, the slashes should be like this:
Rock Slide / Toxic / Whirlwind
But yeah, looks good otherwise.
Offensive Core: Mega Charizard-Y + Venusaur
This is a core that I have recently been using to great success. It functions like tyranitar and excadrill with tyranitar setting up sand and getting up powerful hits in order for excadrill to sweep, however in this core's case chary gets up the sun and damages certain pokemon for venusaur. Chary is threatened greatly by pokemon such as chansey, latios, and talonflame and venusaur is able to lure in and damage or cripple these pokemon with sleep powder, knock off, or earthquake, depending on what move you decide. Chary is also able to get off a huge focus blast on heatran enabling venusaur to beat it later in the game. The sets are up to you, but I am using modest chary with flamethrower in order to get the most amount of damage while still maintaining pp. Venusaur is using a bit of a complex spread but it basically just keeps you at an hp number while giving you enough speed to outpace adamant bisharp, you can also use timid if you wish to outspeed jolly bish and scarf latios in the sun. This core is still really weak to heavily specially defensive pokemon such as chansey or heatran so pairing it with something that can get off huge hits on those would be a good idea, an example of this would be banded ttar, doing 50% to chansey with pursuit and 70% to heatran with pursuit (as they switch out).
Balanced Core: Hippowdon + Ferrothorn + Starmie
This is another core that I have been using recently successfully. It consists of a 2 mon hazard core which check each others weaknesses and a mon which patches up all of it's weaknesses. Hippowdon and ferrothorn work fantastically as they can both get up both spikes and stealth rocks, while covering a great portion of the metagame. Hippowdown loses to water type pokemon such as azumarill, gyarados, and starmie which ferrothorn checks majestically especially with the use of power whip. Ferrothorn loses to pokemon which can hit it super effectivley such as lucario, mega charizard-x, or even mons which it can't do much to such as bisharp or talonflame, and hippowdon beats these mons with ease. This core loses to pokemon such as keldeo or heatran and starmie beats those. It also spins so you don't have to force your own hazards away with defog. The hippowdon spread allows it to live two hp ices from thundurus, while the starmie spread has 224 speed to outspeed thundurus and just dumps the rest into it's stats. Be weary of strong special pokemon like chary so make sure you pack a dedicated special wall or something that can force it out.
This is a core that I have recently been using to great success. It functions like tyranitar and excadrill with tyranitar setting up sand and getting up powerful hits in order for excadrill to sweep, however in this core's case chary gets up the sun and damages certain pokemon for venusaur. Chary is threatened greatly by pokemon such as chansey, latios, and talonflame and venusaur is able to lure in and damage or cripple these pokemon with sleep powder, knock off, or earthquake, depending on what move you decide. Chary is also able to get off a huge focus blast on heatran enabling venusaur to beat it later in the game. The sets are up to you, but I am using modest chary with flamethrower in order to get the most amount of damage while still maintaining pp. Venusaur is using a bit of a complex spread but it basically just keeps you at an hp number while giving you enough speed to outpace adamant bisharp, you can also use timid if you wish to outspeed jolly bish and scarf latios in the sun. This core is still really weak to heavily specially defensive pokemon such as chansey or heatran so pairing it with something that can get off huge hits on those would be a good idea, an example of this would be banded ttar, doing 50% to chansey with pursuit and 70% to heatran with pursuit (as they switch out).
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost
Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Earthquake / Knock off
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost
Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Earthquake / Knock off
Balanced Core: Hippowdon + Ferrothorn + Starmie
This is another core that I have been using recently successfully. It consists of a 2 mon hazard core which check each others weaknesses and a mon which patches up all of it's weaknesses. Hippowdon and ferrothorn work fantastically as they can both get up both spikes and stealth rocks, while covering a great portion of the metagame. Hippowdown loses to water type pokemon such as azumarill, gyarados, and starmie which ferrothorn checks majestically especially with the use of power whip. Ferrothorn loses to pokemon which can hit it super effectivley such as lucario, mega charizard-x, or even mons which it can't do much to such as bisharp or talonflame, and hippowdon beats these mons with ease. This core loses to pokemon such as keldeo or heatran and starmie beats those. It also spins so you don't have to force your own hazards away with defog. The hippowdon spread allows it to live two hp ices from thundurus, while the starmie spread has 224 speed to outspeed thundurus and just dumps the rest into it's stats. Be weary of strong special pokemon like chary so make sure you pack a dedicated special wall or something that can force it out.
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 4 SpA / 16 SpD / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 4 SpA / 16 SpD / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
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Offensive Core: Mega Charizard-Y and Venusaur
This is a core that I have recently been using to great success. It functions like tyranitar and excadrill with tyranitar setting up sand and getting up powerful hits in order for excadrill to sweep, however in this core's case chary gets up the sun and damages certain pokemon for venusaur. Chary is threatened greatly by pokemon such as chansey, latios, and talonflame and venusaur is able to lure in and damage or cripple these pokemon with sleep powder, knock off, or earthquake, depending on what move you decide. Chary is also able to get off a huge focus blast on heatran enabling venusaur to beat it later in the game. The sets are up to you, but I am using modest chary with flamethrower in order to get the most amount of damage while still maintaining pp. Venusaur is using a bit of a complex spread but it basically just keeps you at an hp number while giving you enough speed to outpace adamant bisharp, you can also use timid if you wish to outspeed jolly bish and scarf latios in the sun. This core is still really weak to heavily specially defensive pokemon such as chansey or heatran so pairing it with something that can get off huge hits on those would be a good idea, an example of this would be banded ttar, doing 50% to chansey with pursuit and 70% to heatran with pursuit (as they switch out).
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost
Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Earthquake / Knock off
It works better w/ ninetails, but I also like growth Venusaur. It suddenly becomes this monster that just rips stuff apart after 1 boost
Offensive Core: Mega Charizard-Y and Venusaur
This is a core that I have recently been using to great success. It functions like tyranitar and excadrill with tyranitar setting up sand and getting up powerful hits in order for excadrill to sweep, however in this core's case chary gets up the sun and damages certain pokemon for venusaur. Chary is threatened greatly by pokemon such as chansey, latios, and talonflame and venusaur is able to lure in and damage or cripple these pokemon with sleep powder, knock off, or earthquake, depending on what move you decide. Chary is also able to get off a huge focus blast on heatran enabling venusaur to beat it later in the game. The sets are up to you, but I am using modest chary with flamethrower in order to get the most amount of damage while still maintaining pp. Venusaur is using a bit of a complex spread but it basically just keeps you at an hp number while giving you enough speed to outpace adamant bisharp, you can also use timid if you wish to outspeed jolly bish and scarf latios in the sun. This core is still really weak to heavily specially defensive pokemon such as chansey or heatran so pairing it with something that can get off huge hits on those would be a good idea, an example of this would be banded ttar, doing 50% to chansey with pursuit and 70% to heatran with pursuit (as they switch out).
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost
Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Earthquake / Knock off
Balanced Core: Hippowdon + Ferrothorn + Starmie
This is another core that I have been using recently successfully. It consists of a 2 mon hazard core which check each others weaknesses and a mon which patches up all of it's weaknesses. Hippowdon and ferrothorn work fantastically as they can both get up both spikes and stealth rocks, while covering a great portion of the metagame. Hippowdown loses to water type pokemon such as azumarill, gyarados, and starmie which ferrothorn checks majestically especially with the use of power whip. Ferrothorn loses to pokemon which can hit it super effectivley such as lucario, mega charizard-x, or even mons which it can't do much to such as bisharp or talonflame, and hippowdon beats these mons with ease. This core loses to pokemon such as keldeo or heatran and starmie beats those. It also spins so you don't have to force your own hazards away with defog. Be weary of strong special pokemon like chary so make sure you pack a dedicated special wall or something that can force it out.
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 4 SpA / 16 SpD / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
For the balanced core, what is the reason behind 16 Def and 4 SpA on Starmie instead of leaving those 20 EVs in Speed? Granted, Starmie still outspeeds everything it's supposed to even with 224 Speed, but what do those other EVs solve?
Also, on that matter: People, if you're going to submit a core with EV spreads that aren't mentioned in either a completed or WIP analysis on the respective forums, explain your EVs. As fun as I imagine it is (*cough cough*), I don't want to spend two hours riffling through a hundred matchups on the damage calculator just to see what your EVs accomplish.
For example, I came across a 184 HP / 116 Def / 208 SpD Hippowdon spread in an RMT a week or two back, with zero explanation as to this why this spread was chosen. I still haven't found out just what the hell 208 SpD is supposed to accomplish, other than letting you lose to +2 LO Terrakion's Close Combat unlike the 252 HP / 144 Def set. This may be due to my incompetence, but there should still be a degree of clarity for people who are less experienced or do not have the insight to check certain matchups that, while probably obvious to experienced players, make no sense to others.
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