-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Resource ORAS OU Teambuilding
- Thread starter BlazeLatias
- Start date
- Status
Set up moves are overrated anyways.
Specially Defensive
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 192 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
- Taunt / Protect / Roar
- Toxic
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
Role: Special Wall, Hazard User
What It Does: Specially Defensive Heatran's main role is to set up rocks and wither the opponent's Pokemon through Toxic, Taunt, Stealth Rock, and possible Lava Plume burn, while also being able to check a huge portion of the metagame thanks to its enormous special bulk and spectacular ability and typing combo. Heatran provides a very good check to all non-EQ Lati@s, Clefable, Mega Venusaur, Skarmory, Talonflame, Scizor, etc.. It can take on a lot of specially oriented Pokemon, such as Raikou, Mega Manectric, and Magnezone. It also shakely checks powerful special attacking Pokemon such as Mega Gardevoir, Tornadus-T, and Mega Alakazam, all which carry Focus Blast partly because of Heatran.
Good Teammates: Teammates that can cover Heatran's weaknesses, Ground, Water, and Fighting, are all very appreciated. For example, Rotom-W is a nice teammates since it is immune to ground and resists Water, while Latias resists both Fighting and Water, and is immune to ground.
What Counters It: Bulky Starmie is probably the biggest one, as it spins hazards away, cures itself from Toxic by switching out, does a solid amount with Scald, and can use Recover to keep longevity while resisting Lava Plume. Other than that, bulky Water types, such as Keldeo, Manaphy, Azumarill, and Slowbro, and bulky Ground types, such as Garchomp and Hippowdon, all threaten to 2HKO or even OHKO, but in the cost of a possible burn or toxic.
------------------------------------------
Stallbreaker
Heatran @ Leftovers / Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Toxic / Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Magma Storm
Role: Wallbreaker, Stallbreaker, Bulky Attacker
What It Does: This Heatran set is particularly used for breaking walls, particularly stall. Not only does Magma Storm has a 100 BP, although 75% accuracy, but it also traps the opponent for 4-5 turns. Above all of that, the opponent is taking ~12.5% each turn just from residual. With the opposing Pokemon trapped, Heatran can manipulate the situation to eliminate that Pokemon. Through Taunt and usually Toxic, it can wither down the most of annoying of walls. For example, if Chansey is trapped, a simple taunt would shut it down. And with Magma Storm doing 12.5% at the end of each turn, along with Toxic or just Flash Cannon damage, soon Chansey will go down before it can knock you out with S-Toss (Especially if you have Leftovers). The same goes for a lot of other Pokemon, such as Clefable, Mega Venusaur, non-EQ Lati@s, Amoonguss, Skarmory, Mew, Sylveon, and Talonflame, all which are found on really bulky builds. Solar Beam can be used over Toxic/Flash Cannon with a Power Herb to hit some bulky water types unexpectedly hard, usually KO-ing them after Magma Storm damage + residual, it can hit Quagisre, Slowbro, Azumarill (non-AV), and Seismitoed.
Good Teammates: Teammates that can cover Heatran's weaknesses, Ground, Water, and Fighting, are all very appreciated. For example, Rotom-W is a nice teammates since it is immune to ground and resists Water, while Latias resists both Fighting and Water, and is immune to ground.
What Counters It: Without Solar Beam, bulky waters easily check this set, especially ones with solid recovery such as Slowbro. On the other hand, anything that is not too prone to taunt and can KO or deal a significant amount of damage back is considered a solid check. For example, Hippowdon can easily switch in and switch Heatran to switch out.
---------------------------------------
Offensive Stealth Rock
Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast / Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon / HP Ice / Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
Role: Hazard User, Bulky Attacker
What It Does: Offensive Heatran's role is to set up rocks, but at the same time, to hit hard. It goes with max speed and max SpA to widen the pokemon it can check, and ensure to hit hard. The reason you want Heatran to hit hard is because most Defog users in the tier, will be severely weakened and possibly eliminated if they want to defog the hazards on Heatran. Another plus is that this set outspeeds most Excas (max speed Adamant), which prevents the spin by directly KO-ing with Fire Blast. Magma Storm can be used to maximize Heatran's wallbreaking and stallbreaking ability, but is really risky due to the significant accuracy drop. Earth Power is used to hit bulky fire types, such as opposing Heatrans, and Flash Cannon is a powerful STAB that hits fairies super effectively and has a nice neutral consistent coverage. On the other hand, HP Ice can be used to hit bulky Dragons, such as Lati@s and Garchomp, while Stone Edge can be used to hit Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y.
Good Teammates: Teammates that can cover Heatran's weaknesses, Ground, Water, and Fighting, are all very appreciated. For example, Rotom-W is a nice teammates since it is immune to ground and resists Water, while Latias resists both Fighting and Water, and is immune to ground.
What Counters It: Since this set hits very hard, its harder to counter, but without Toxic or Taunt, bulky Pokemons can handle it much easier. Pokemon such as Slowbro, Hippowdon, Starmie, Manaphy, etc. all are very effective checks and sometimes even counters.
-------------------------------------
Choice Scarf
Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Fire Blast / Overheat
- Stone Edge / Ancient Power / HP Ice
Role: Special Sweeper, Late-game Cleaner
What It Does: With Heatran's slightly below average speed, good fire power, and surprisingly decent coverage, it can effectively run a Choice Scarf to outspeed most of the unboosted meta, while still hitting very hard. Earth Power is very important to this set doesn't just get completely stopped by opposing Heatrans. Flash Cannon is a consistent powerful STAB with a full accuracy that is probably Heatran's most spammable move. As for the Fire STAB, Fire Blast can be used to deal out consistent damage, but Overheat can be used thanks to its surprise and high power, albeit inconsistent. Finally, either Stone Edge or Ancient Power can be used to hit Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y, while HP Ice can be used to hit, again, Pokemon such as Garchomp.
Good Teammates: Teammates that can cover Heatran's weaknesses, Ground, Water, and Fighting, are all very appreciated. For example, Rotom-W is a nice teammates since it is immune to ground and resists Water, while Latias resists both Fighting and Water, and is immune to ground.
What Counters It: With a Choice Scarf, a lot of the checks that depended on their speed to outspeed and KO Heatran are no longer checks, but, with the loss of choice and fire power, more walls and bulky pokemon can handle this set. For example, Slowbro can easily come in with no fear whatsoever, and recover the damage just by switching thanks to Regenerator. While Starmie is outspeed, it still avoids the 2HKO. And Manaphy can come on a predicted Flash Cannon / Fire move and even set up.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 192 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
- Taunt / Protect / Roar
- Toxic
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
Role: Special Wall, Hazard User
What It Does: Specially Defensive Heatran's main role is to set up rocks and wither the opponent's Pokemon through Toxic, Taunt, Stealth Rock, and possible Lava Plume burn, while also being able to check a huge portion of the metagame thanks to its enormous special bulk and spectacular ability and typing combo. Heatran provides a very good check to all non-EQ Lati@s, Clefable, Mega Venusaur, Skarmory, Talonflame, Scizor, etc.. It can take on a lot of specially oriented Pokemon, such as Raikou, Mega Manectric, and Magnezone. It also shakely checks powerful special attacking Pokemon such as Mega Gardevoir, Tornadus-T, and Mega Alakazam, all which carry Focus Blast partly because of Heatran.
Good Teammates: Teammates that can cover Heatran's weaknesses, Ground, Water, and Fighting, are all very appreciated. For example, Rotom-W is a nice teammates since it is immune to ground and resists Water, while Latias resists both Fighting and Water, and is immune to ground.
What Counters It: Bulky Starmie is probably the biggest one, as it spins hazards away, cures itself from Toxic by switching out, does a solid amount with Scald, and can use Recover to keep longevity while resisting Lava Plume. Other than that, bulky Water types, such as Keldeo, Manaphy, Azumarill, and Slowbro, and bulky Ground types, such as Garchomp and Hippowdon, all threaten to 2HKO or even OHKO, but in the cost of a possible burn or toxic.
------------------------------------------
Stallbreaker
Heatran @ Leftovers / Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Toxic / Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Magma Storm
Role: Wallbreaker, Stallbreaker, Bulky Attacker
What It Does: This Heatran set is particularly used for breaking walls, particularly stall. Not only does Magma Storm has a 100 BP, although 75% accuracy, but it also traps the opponent for 4-5 turns. Above all of that, the opponent is taking ~12.5% each turn just from residual. With the opposing Pokemon trapped, Heatran can manipulate the situation to eliminate that Pokemon. Through Taunt and usually Toxic, it can wither down the most of annoying of walls. For example, if Chansey is trapped, a simple taunt would shut it down. And with Magma Storm doing 12.5% at the end of each turn, along with Toxic or just Flash Cannon damage, soon Chansey will go down before it can knock you out with S-Toss (Especially if you have Leftovers). The same goes for a lot of other Pokemon, such as Clefable, Mega Venusaur, non-EQ Lati@s, Amoonguss, Skarmory, Mew, Sylveon, and Talonflame, all which are found on really bulky builds. Solar Beam can be used over Toxic/Flash Cannon with a Power Herb to hit some bulky water types unexpectedly hard, usually KO-ing them after Magma Storm damage + residual, it can hit Quagisre, Slowbro, Azumarill (non-AV), and Seismitoed.
Good Teammates: Teammates that can cover Heatran's weaknesses, Ground, Water, and Fighting, are all very appreciated. For example, Rotom-W is a nice teammates since it is immune to ground and resists Water, while Latias resists both Fighting and Water, and is immune to ground.
What Counters It: Without Solar Beam, bulky waters easily check this set, especially ones with solid recovery such as Slowbro. On the other hand, anything that is not too prone to taunt and can KO or deal a significant amount of damage back is considered a solid check. For example, Hippowdon can easily switch in and switch Heatran to switch out.
---------------------------------------
Offensive Stealth Rock
Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast / Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon / HP Ice / Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
Role: Hazard User, Bulky Attacker
What It Does: Offensive Heatran's role is to set up rocks, but at the same time, to hit hard. It goes with max speed and max SpA to widen the pokemon it can check, and ensure to hit hard. The reason you want Heatran to hit hard is because most Defog users in the tier, will be severely weakened and possibly eliminated if they want to defog the hazards on Heatran. Another plus is that this set outspeeds most Excas (max speed Adamant), which prevents the spin by directly KO-ing with Fire Blast. Magma Storm can be used to maximize Heatran's wallbreaking and stallbreaking ability, but is really risky due to the significant accuracy drop. Earth Power is used to hit bulky fire types, such as opposing Heatrans, and Flash Cannon is a powerful STAB that hits fairies super effectively and has a nice neutral consistent coverage. On the other hand, HP Ice can be used to hit bulky Dragons, such as Lati@s and Garchomp, while Stone Edge can be used to hit Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y.
Good Teammates: Teammates that can cover Heatran's weaknesses, Ground, Water, and Fighting, are all very appreciated. For example, Rotom-W is a nice teammates since it is immune to ground and resists Water, while Latias resists both Fighting and Water, and is immune to ground.
What Counters It: Since this set hits very hard, its harder to counter, but without Toxic or Taunt, bulky Pokemons can handle it much easier. Pokemon such as Slowbro, Hippowdon, Starmie, Manaphy, etc. all are very effective checks and sometimes even counters.
-------------------------------------
Choice Scarf
Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Fire Blast / Overheat
- Stone Edge / Ancient Power / HP Ice
Role: Special Sweeper, Late-game Cleaner
What It Does: With Heatran's slightly below average speed, good fire power, and surprisingly decent coverage, it can effectively run a Choice Scarf to outspeed most of the unboosted meta, while still hitting very hard. Earth Power is very important to this set doesn't just get completely stopped by opposing Heatrans. Flash Cannon is a consistent powerful STAB with a full accuracy that is probably Heatran's most spammable move. As for the Fire STAB, Fire Blast can be used to deal out consistent damage, but Overheat can be used thanks to its surprise and high power, albeit inconsistent. Finally, either Stone Edge or Ancient Power can be used to hit Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y, while HP Ice can be used to hit, again, Pokemon such as Garchomp.
Good Teammates: Teammates that can cover Heatran's weaknesses, Ground, Water, and Fighting, are all very appreciated. For example, Rotom-W is a nice teammates since it is immune to ground and resists Water, while Latias resists both Fighting and Water, and is immune to ground.
What Counters It: With a Choice Scarf, a lot of the checks that depended on their speed to outspeed and KO Heatran are no longer checks, but, with the loss of choice and fire power, more walls and bulky pokemon can handle this set. For example, Slowbro can easily come in with no fear whatsoever, and recover the damage just by switching thanks to Regenerator. While Starmie is outspeed, it still avoids the 2HKO. And Manaphy can come on a predicted Flash Cannon / Fire move and even set up.
Feel free to make suggestions on anything to add that takes these beyond their strategy dex sets (all I've done really is slashed the listed other options in the relevant places). I thought they were worth being here even if just lifted from the dex, just because the OP was pretty devoid of any mixed sweepers.
Defiant Thundurus-I
Thundurus-I @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 68 Atk / 188 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive/Hasty nature
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Grass Knot / HP Ice
Role: Mixed Sweeper
What it does: Defiant lets it get a sneaky Attack boost from switching into Defog or taking an Intimidate, and is a lot less common than the more popular Prankster set. It has less utility but makes up for it in the ability to double it's late game role as a potential backup wallbreaker that can also beat non-scarf Latios. Thunderbolt is the primary first option because reasons, but you can use Wild Charge instead which can take more advantage of Defiant and also OHKO M-Gardevoir. The main drawback is that Wild Charge deals a ton of recoil damage combined with Life Orb. Knock Off with the given EVs beats Latios in one go, and Superpower gives Thundy a good way of seriously denting or beating Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Chansey, Heatran, and Kyurem-B amongst others. Last slot depends on what you want it to beat - GK hits Hippowdown most notably as well as Quagsire/Swampert/Gastrodon less relevantly; HP Ice hits Garchomp and Landoge (if you're using Wild Charge + HP Ice, 84 SpA EVs are enough to get all the relevant kills post rocks so the rest can go into Atk). Alternative options in the last slot are: HP Flying, which 2HKOs Mega Venusaur and is a better option than Psychic which needs a few more SpA EVs to guarantee the 2HKO meaning Knock Off misses out on Latios; or Sludge Wave which hits fairies, as otherwise M-Altaria and Clefable beat it easily. Naive nature takes physical priority better (but if you can avoid it, don't stay in on it...) while Hasty lets you switch in on average/weak special attacks better (the dex gives Keldeo's scald as the example here).
Good Teammates: Anything that can reliably handle it's counters, which depends on the coverage you choose. Jirachi is a good option for Clefable, M-Garde and some variants of M-Alt, if you're not running Sludge Wave. Thundy is pretty frail so stuff that can beat pursuit trappers and things that outspeed it; Scarf Keldeo beats Tar, Bisharp and Weavile, and CM Keldeo can set up on them all. You should probably take a Keldeo. Hazard stackers of all kinds can bait defogs for Thundy to get his Defiant sweep on, so Ferro, Skarm, Tentacruel, Dragalge, and any of the plethora of good rock setters around. Also your own defogger/spinner is pretty necessary too because between his rocks weakness and Life Orb, Thundy is easy to wear down - Starmie and Excadrill do this nicely and also appreciate Thundy's coverage. For similar reasons you could avoid Sand, but a dual weather core of Tar/Hippo + Zard Y can help alleviate this, and also appreciate Defiant Thundy's offensive coverage. Rain can also get a good deal of support from Thundy as he pressures all of bulky waters, Ferro switches, and Mega Venusaur, with the right coverage, while also pressuring Tar and Zard-Y, shutting down opposing weather (plus Hippo if Venu isn't a problem). Heatran, or any other good check to Specs Sylveon stops a healthy Sylv from taking advantage of forcing Thundy out (Thundy can't OHKO Sylveon with Sludge Wave so needs to hit a Sylveon at below 60% assuming no SpD investment). Finally, doubling up on Defiant users (read: Bisharp) can really put on some pressure while forcing your own hazards to stay on the field.
What counters it: Really depends on the chosen coverage, but: various fairies (without Sludge Wave), Mega Venusaur (without HP Flying), Hippowdown (without Grass Knot), Tank Chomp (without HP Ice). Mega Sableye if it gets up a Prankster CM simultaneously with Mega Evolving, otherwise he's 2HKO'd by Thunderbolt without SpD investment. Scarf Landoge wins if he doesn't switch in on a Knock Off but if he does switch in, well, he dead, cause he just gave a Defiant boost. Specs Sylveon is hands down the best answer in many situations - it just wins assuming it's reasonably healthy as it only takes 60% from a Sludge Wave and OHKO's Thundurus; Defensive Sylveon also takes c. 70% off of Thundy with a Hyper Voice and takes the same from a Sludge Wave (assuming Physical Defense and not SpD).
=========================================================
Rock Polish Mega-Diancie
Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 68 Atk / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
Rash nature
- Rock Polish
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Earth Power / HP Fire
Role: Mixed Sweeper / Late Game Cleaner
What it does: sets up Rock Polish late game and cleans, or uses the tremendous power behind it's STAB moves to break things slower than it early/mid game. Magic Bounce in it's Mega-Evolved form make it great at supporting other wall breakers and late game cleaners. Given EVs let it outspeed Adamant Excadrill in Sand Rush mode (after a Polish) and the remainder are dumped into attack. At least 32 Atk means it gets the OHKO on PhysDef Zapdos with Diamond Storm after Rocks, although I'd say those EVs are pretty flexible given that Zapdos isn't hugely popular in today's meta and most other flying types bar SpD Talonflame are hit by Moonblast anyway - TF is OHKO'd by Diamond Storm regardless and can't WoW, Taunt or significantly damage Diancie regardless of it's set (yay Magic Bounce). You could dump all 68 into HP or leave some/all in attack. Calm Mind is a very niche option over Diamond Storm to let it break defensive teams but that makes it more of a stall breaker or wall breaker than a mixed sweeper (as it's no longer mixed). Last slot depends on what you want to cover; Earth Power beats Heatran and Jirachi, while HP Fire beats Ferrothorn and Scizor (the latter only on the switch because bullet punch), all good answers to this set otherwise. Again, both can be run on the same set, sacrificing Diamond Storm, if you're not worried about actually being able to kill Zapdos or SpD Talonflame, but it's not really a mixed set anymore if you do so.
Good teammates: A good spinner or defogger means that Diancie doesn't need to be relied on for good hazard control, and a rocker nets Diancie a number of kills it otherwise wouldn't get. Rotom-W, Ferrothorn, Suicune, Amoonguss, and Keldeo (among a few others.. Toxicroak, anyone?) can all take Aqua Jets and Bullet Punches aimed at Mega Diancie. Without HP Fire, a good answer to Scizor and Ferro is required - Magnezone is great at this. Latios with HP Fire can also bait all of those, but Magnezone can beat Skarm too. If you're lacking Earth Power then be prepared for Heatran and Jirachi; Tank Chomp is a good answer to the latter, especially since he can't be para'd by Body Slam. Above mentioned waters, particularly Keldeo, are good answers to Tran. Be creative with partners here, M-Diancie is quite splashable as lots of it's checks are things that most teams should have an answer to anyway. A good answer to bulky water types is useful too (the dex notes Suicune and Defensive Manaphy avoid the 2HKO from all of Diancie's attacks) - Thundurus and Raikou spring to mind.
What counters it: Depending on the chosen fourth move, Heatran, Jirachi, Ferrothorn and Scizor are usually the most reliable answers. Skarmory walls it pretty handily too if it's lacking HP Fire and beats M-Diancie easily if it's carrying Iron Head. As noted above, Suicune and bulky variants of Manaphy aren't 2HKOd and can start setting up CMs. Lots of scarfers and fast things beat it before it sets up a Rock Polish, such as Excadrill, Chomp, Keldeo, Landoge, Heatran (all with scarfs) and Serperior too (which won't take a scarf, of course).
Defiant Thundurus-I
Thundurus-I @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 68 Atk / 188 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive/Hasty nature
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Grass Knot / HP Ice
Role: Mixed Sweeper
What it does: Defiant lets it get a sneaky Attack boost from switching into Defog or taking an Intimidate, and is a lot less common than the more popular Prankster set. It has less utility but makes up for it in the ability to double it's late game role as a potential backup wallbreaker that can also beat non-scarf Latios. Thunderbolt is the primary first option because reasons, but you can use Wild Charge instead which can take more advantage of Defiant and also OHKO M-Gardevoir. The main drawback is that Wild Charge deals a ton of recoil damage combined with Life Orb. Knock Off with the given EVs beats Latios in one go, and Superpower gives Thundy a good way of seriously denting or beating Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Chansey, Heatran, and Kyurem-B amongst others. Last slot depends on what you want it to beat - GK hits Hippowdown most notably as well as Quagsire/Swampert/Gastrodon less relevantly; HP Ice hits Garchomp and Landoge (if you're using Wild Charge + HP Ice, 84 SpA EVs are enough to get all the relevant kills post rocks so the rest can go into Atk). Alternative options in the last slot are: HP Flying, which 2HKOs Mega Venusaur and is a better option than Psychic which needs a few more SpA EVs to guarantee the 2HKO meaning Knock Off misses out on Latios; or Sludge Wave which hits fairies, as otherwise M-Altaria and Clefable beat it easily. Naive nature takes physical priority better (but if you can avoid it, don't stay in on it...) while Hasty lets you switch in on average/weak special attacks better (the dex gives Keldeo's scald as the example here).
Good Teammates: Anything that can reliably handle it's counters, which depends on the coverage you choose. Jirachi is a good option for Clefable, M-Garde and some variants of M-Alt, if you're not running Sludge Wave. Thundy is pretty frail so stuff that can beat pursuit trappers and things that outspeed it; Scarf Keldeo beats Tar, Bisharp and Weavile, and CM Keldeo can set up on them all. You should probably take a Keldeo. Hazard stackers of all kinds can bait defogs for Thundy to get his Defiant sweep on, so Ferro, Skarm, Tentacruel, Dragalge, and any of the plethora of good rock setters around. Also your own defogger/spinner is pretty necessary too because between his rocks weakness and Life Orb, Thundy is easy to wear down - Starmie and Excadrill do this nicely and also appreciate Thundy's coverage. For similar reasons you could avoid Sand, but a dual weather core of Tar/Hippo + Zard Y can help alleviate this, and also appreciate Defiant Thundy's offensive coverage. Rain can also get a good deal of support from Thundy as he pressures all of bulky waters, Ferro switches, and Mega Venusaur, with the right coverage, while also pressuring Tar and Zard-Y, shutting down opposing weather (plus Hippo if Venu isn't a problem). Heatran, or any other good check to Specs Sylveon stops a healthy Sylv from taking advantage of forcing Thundy out (Thundy can't OHKO Sylveon with Sludge Wave so needs to hit a Sylveon at below 60% assuming no SpD investment). Finally, doubling up on Defiant users (read: Bisharp) can really put on some pressure while forcing your own hazards to stay on the field.
What counters it: Really depends on the chosen coverage, but: various fairies (without Sludge Wave), Mega Venusaur (without HP Flying), Hippowdown (without Grass Knot), Tank Chomp (without HP Ice). Mega Sableye if it gets up a Prankster CM simultaneously with Mega Evolving, otherwise he's 2HKO'd by Thunderbolt without SpD investment. Scarf Landoge wins if he doesn't switch in on a Knock Off but if he does switch in, well, he dead, cause he just gave a Defiant boost. Specs Sylveon is hands down the best answer in many situations - it just wins assuming it's reasonably healthy as it only takes 60% from a Sludge Wave and OHKO's Thundurus; Defensive Sylveon also takes c. 70% off of Thundy with a Hyper Voice and takes the same from a Sludge Wave (assuming Physical Defense and not SpD).
=========================================================
Rock Polish Mega-Diancie
Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 68 Atk / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
Rash nature
- Rock Polish
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Earth Power / HP Fire
Role: Mixed Sweeper / Late Game Cleaner
What it does: sets up Rock Polish late game and cleans, or uses the tremendous power behind it's STAB moves to break things slower than it early/mid game. Magic Bounce in it's Mega-Evolved form make it great at supporting other wall breakers and late game cleaners. Given EVs let it outspeed Adamant Excadrill in Sand Rush mode (after a Polish) and the remainder are dumped into attack. At least 32 Atk means it gets the OHKO on PhysDef Zapdos with Diamond Storm after Rocks, although I'd say those EVs are pretty flexible given that Zapdos isn't hugely popular in today's meta and most other flying types bar SpD Talonflame are hit by Moonblast anyway - TF is OHKO'd by Diamond Storm regardless and can't WoW, Taunt or significantly damage Diancie regardless of it's set (yay Magic Bounce). You could dump all 68 into HP or leave some/all in attack. Calm Mind is a very niche option over Diamond Storm to let it break defensive teams but that makes it more of a stall breaker or wall breaker than a mixed sweeper (as it's no longer mixed). Last slot depends on what you want to cover; Earth Power beats Heatran and Jirachi, while HP Fire beats Ferrothorn and Scizor (the latter only on the switch because bullet punch), all good answers to this set otherwise. Again, both can be run on the same set, sacrificing Diamond Storm, if you're not worried about actually being able to kill Zapdos or SpD Talonflame, but it's not really a mixed set anymore if you do so.
Good teammates: A good spinner or defogger means that Diancie doesn't need to be relied on for good hazard control, and a rocker nets Diancie a number of kills it otherwise wouldn't get. Rotom-W, Ferrothorn, Suicune, Amoonguss, and Keldeo (among a few others.. Toxicroak, anyone?) can all take Aqua Jets and Bullet Punches aimed at Mega Diancie. Without HP Fire, a good answer to Scizor and Ferro is required - Magnezone is great at this. Latios with HP Fire can also bait all of those, but Magnezone can beat Skarm too. If you're lacking Earth Power then be prepared for Heatran and Jirachi; Tank Chomp is a good answer to the latter, especially since he can't be para'd by Body Slam. Above mentioned waters, particularly Keldeo, are good answers to Tran. Be creative with partners here, M-Diancie is quite splashable as lots of it's checks are things that most teams should have an answer to anyway. A good answer to bulky water types is useful too (the dex notes Suicune and Defensive Manaphy avoid the 2HKO from all of Diancie's attacks) - Thundurus and Raikou spring to mind.
What counters it: Depending on the chosen fourth move, Heatran, Jirachi, Ferrothorn and Scizor are usually the most reliable answers. Skarmory walls it pretty handily too if it's lacking HP Fire and beats M-Diancie easily if it's carrying Iron Head. As noted above, Suicune and bulky variants of Manaphy aren't 2HKOd and can start setting up CMs. Lots of scarfers and fast things beat it before it sets up a Rock Polish, such as Excadrill, Chomp, Keldeo, Landoge, Heatran (all with scarfs) and Serperior too (which won't take a scarf, of course).
Last edited:
Tbh, I wouldn't slap Wild Charge, HP Flying, or Sludge Wave on Thundurus. Sure, mentioning them in Addition Info is fine, but I feel like those options are way too inconsistent, especially when compared to their side slashes, and heavily team specific.Feel free to make suggestions on anything to add that takes these beyond their strategy dex sets (all I've done really is slashed the listed other options in the relevant places). I thought they were worth being here even if just lifted from the dex, just because the OP was pretty devoid of any mixed sweepers.
Defiant Thundurus-I
Thundurus-I @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 68 Atk / 188 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive/Hasty nature
- Thunderbolt / Wild Charge
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Grass Knot / HP Ice / HP Flying / Sludge Wave
-snip-
=========================================================
Rock Polish Mega-Diancie
Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 36 HP / 32 Atk / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
Rash nature
- Rock Polish
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm (/ Calm Mind)
- Earth Power / HP Fire
-snip-
It's probably just me, but on Mega Diancie I wouldn't have any EVs in HP, and instead put them all in attack, to hit stuff like Chansey, Gengar (~60% chance to OHKO w/o rocks ---> 95% chance), and Mega Venusaur much harder. Oh, and I definitely wouldn't even consider Calm Mind with Rock Polish, because it doesn't work the way Double Dance Pokemon use it because you're actually not max speed. Other than that, this looks pretty good ^.^
Cheers for the response, I'll edit accordingly soon (I won't knock off the slashes til I have time to update the text). As I said, most of it is stripped straight from the strategy dex where all those options are listed, although as you say not all slashed.
EDIT: Done.
Last edited:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-ou-teambuilding.3552326/page-3#post-6477928
user: BlazeLatias did reserve this. I am not going to speak for him but if you really want to do Hoopa-U he might end up letting you do it.
go ahead and take it. Currently school work is preventing me from writing it up.
Sand Rush Sweeper
Excadrill @ Life Orb / Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin / Swords Dance
Role: Physical Sweeper, Late-game Cleaner, Revenge Killer, Rapid Spinner
What It Does: Excadrill's main role is to revenge kill fast sweepers Pokemons under sand. Extremely fast Pokemons such as Mega Alakazam, Mega Lopunny, Mega Manectric, Mega Aerodactyl, Weavile, and Tornadus-T are all revenge killed by Sand Rush Excadrill under sand, all of which could pose a really huge problem to the team. Not only that, but set up sweepers that boost speed can be revenge killed at +1, and a with a Jolly Nature, most of them are revenge killed even at +2. Gyarados, Dragonite, and Charizard X are all outspeed even at +1 under sand. Excadrill's sweeping ability and cleaning ability is also extremely high, thanks to its enormous speed in sand. Life Orb is used to help sweep and break walls easier, Air Balloon makes Rapid Spinning or set up SD much easier, especially on stuff like Lando-T and Hippowdon. Swords Dance improves his ability to wallbreaker and sweep, while Rapid Spin brings utility to the team by spinning the hazards away.
Good Teammates: Tyranitar and/or Hippowdon are a must. Without them, Sand Rush amazing utility cannot be put into action without Sand Stream. Other than that, a switch in to Excadrill's checks, mainly Hippowdon, Slowbro, and Rotom-W, would be very appreciated.
What Counters It: Extremely bulky physical walls such as Slowbro, Skarmory, Hippowdon, and Landorus-T, all are straight up counters to Excadrill, and threaten to 2HKO or even OHKO.
===============================
Bulky Spinner
Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock / Toxic
Role: Rapid Spinner, Hazard User, Special Wall
What It Does: SpD Excadrill's main role is to spin hazards, and to do it consistently. Unlike Life Orb, Air Balloon, or Scarf, SpD Excadrill has bulk and Leftovers, allowing to spin much more consistently throughout the game. Other than that, Excadrill's bulk can be used to either set up Stealth Rock, or spread Toxic on bulky walls that otherwise wall and switch in on "normal" Excadrills, withering them down throughout the game. With Mold Breaker, Excadrill is able to set up rocks on Magic Bounce users, such as Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie, or it can Toxic them to make them easier to wear down. Other than that, Excadrill's bulky is extremely useful in taking hits from Pokemon such as Latias, Raikou, non-HP Fire Latios, Clefable, Magnezone, and even Tornadus-T, checking all of them with relative ease.
Good Teammates: Pokemon that can switch in on Excadrills checks and counters are all appreciated, Pokemon like Slowbro, for example, can switch in on stuff like Water and Fighting types that threaten Excadrill a lot.
What Counters It: Powerful Fighting, Water, and Ground types Pokemons that can threaten to OHKO Excadrill can completely stop it. Pokemon such as Keldeo, Conkeldurr, Mega Lopunny, Victini, Azamarill, Skarmory, Gliscor (immune to Toxic as a plus), and Mega Charizard Y are all really good Pokemon that can OHKO Excadrill and outspeed or just wall it without too much fear of Toxic. Slowbro, Hippowdon, and Landorus-T are all good counters, but they risk getting Toxic'd which makes them much easier to wear down throughout the game.
==================================
Choice Scarf
Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
Role: Rapid Spinner, Late-game Cleaner, Revenge Killer
What It Does: By having Choice Scarf, Excadrill sacrifices the ability to choose moves and power in Life Orb to gain significant speed to outspeed certain Pokemons and revenge kill them. Choice Scarf Excadrill can spam Earthquake much easier than other Pokemon thanks to Mold Breaker, hitting the likes of Lati@s, Gengar, and Rotom-W. With a Choice Scarf, it can even go for a Rapid Spin before it dies when its low on health; however, Scarf Excadrill should not be your main way of removing hazards as it's extremely unreliable, and loses a lot of momentum. Thanks to the Choice Scarf, Excadrill can serve a soft check to Electric types, switching on a potential electric move and outspeeding.
Good Teammates: Since Scarf Excadrill doesn't have a lot of power, the best teammates are wallbreakers who can break past bulky walls the can otherwise completely stop Excadrill.
What Counters It: Without a Life Orb or Toxic, Excadrill is completely walled by physically defensive Pokemon. Skarmory, Landorus-T, Slowbro, Hippowdon, and Gliscor switch on Scarf Excadrill without fearing anything at all.
Excadrill @ Life Orb / Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin / Swords Dance
Role: Physical Sweeper, Late-game Cleaner, Revenge Killer, Rapid Spinner
What It Does: Excadrill's main role is to revenge kill fast sweepers Pokemons under sand. Extremely fast Pokemons such as Mega Alakazam, Mega Lopunny, Mega Manectric, Mega Aerodactyl, Weavile, and Tornadus-T are all revenge killed by Sand Rush Excadrill under sand, all of which could pose a really huge problem to the team. Not only that, but set up sweepers that boost speed can be revenge killed at +1, and a with a Jolly Nature, most of them are revenge killed even at +2. Gyarados, Dragonite, and Charizard X are all outspeed even at +1 under sand. Excadrill's sweeping ability and cleaning ability is also extremely high, thanks to its enormous speed in sand. Life Orb is used to help sweep and break walls easier, Air Balloon makes Rapid Spinning or set up SD much easier, especially on stuff like Lando-T and Hippowdon. Swords Dance improves his ability to wallbreaker and sweep, while Rapid Spin brings utility to the team by spinning the hazards away.
Good Teammates: Tyranitar and/or Hippowdon are a must. Without them, Sand Rush amazing utility cannot be put into action without Sand Stream. Other than that, a switch in to Excadrill's checks, mainly Hippowdon, Slowbro, and Rotom-W, would be very appreciated.
What Counters It: Extremely bulky physical walls such as Slowbro, Skarmory, Hippowdon, and Landorus-T, all are straight up counters to Excadrill, and threaten to 2HKO or even OHKO.
===============================
Bulky Spinner
Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock / Toxic
Role: Rapid Spinner, Hazard User, Special Wall
What It Does: SpD Excadrill's main role is to spin hazards, and to do it consistently. Unlike Life Orb, Air Balloon, or Scarf, SpD Excadrill has bulk and Leftovers, allowing to spin much more consistently throughout the game. Other than that, Excadrill's bulk can be used to either set up Stealth Rock, or spread Toxic on bulky walls that otherwise wall and switch in on "normal" Excadrills, withering them down throughout the game. With Mold Breaker, Excadrill is able to set up rocks on Magic Bounce users, such as Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie, or it can Toxic them to make them easier to wear down. Other than that, Excadrill's bulky is extremely useful in taking hits from Pokemon such as Latias, Raikou, non-HP Fire Latios, Clefable, Magnezone, and even Tornadus-T, checking all of them with relative ease.
Good Teammates: Pokemon that can switch in on Excadrills checks and counters are all appreciated, Pokemon like Slowbro, for example, can switch in on stuff like Water and Fighting types that threaten Excadrill a lot.
What Counters It: Powerful Fighting, Water, and Ground types Pokemons that can threaten to OHKO Excadrill can completely stop it. Pokemon such as Keldeo, Conkeldurr, Mega Lopunny, Victini, Azamarill, Skarmory, Gliscor (immune to Toxic as a plus), and Mega Charizard Y are all really good Pokemon that can OHKO Excadrill and outspeed or just wall it without too much fear of Toxic. Slowbro, Hippowdon, and Landorus-T are all good counters, but they risk getting Toxic'd which makes them much easier to wear down throughout the game.
==================================
Choice Scarf
Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
Role: Rapid Spinner, Late-game Cleaner, Revenge Killer
What It Does: By having Choice Scarf, Excadrill sacrifices the ability to choose moves and power in Life Orb to gain significant speed to outspeed certain Pokemons and revenge kill them. Choice Scarf Excadrill can spam Earthquake much easier than other Pokemon thanks to Mold Breaker, hitting the likes of Lati@s, Gengar, and Rotom-W. With a Choice Scarf, it can even go for a Rapid Spin before it dies when its low on health; however, Scarf Excadrill should not be your main way of removing hazards as it's extremely unreliable, and loses a lot of momentum. Thanks to the Choice Scarf, Excadrill can serve a soft check to Electric types, switching on a potential electric move and outspeeding.
Good Teammates: Since Scarf Excadrill doesn't have a lot of power, the best teammates are wallbreakers who can break past bulky walls the can otherwise completely stop Excadrill.
What Counters It: Without a Life Orb or Toxic, Excadrill is completely walled by physically defensive Pokemon. Skarmory, Landorus-T, Slowbro, Hippowdon, and Gliscor switch on Scarf Excadrill without fearing anything at all.
Ill probably have time to do this so Reserving Ampharos-Mega (rest talk)
I had forgotten about that. I will get them done in a bit, after i eat lunch. Thanks for reminding me.
Diggersby @ Life Orb
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature / Jolly Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance / Knock Off / U-Turn
Role: Wallbreaker
What It Does: Diggersby is a very threatening mon to any slow or defensive teams. It his very hard and has surprisingly decent bulk. I mean, it's bulk isn't great, but you will often find that your mons aren't doing as much damage as you hoped they would to it. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this, I don't know. Regardless, Diggersby is still a great wallbreaker. Any defensive player definitely does not enjoy seeing a Diggersby on the opposing team, for obvious reasons. Diggersby is very hard to keep under control and puts a lot of pressure onto defensive teams through Swords dance, which instantly doubles Diggersby's attack, Knock Off, which is able to get rid of important items of defensive mons, and U-turn, a very great move for gaining momentum. Diggersby isn't limited to these three specific moves either. It has many lure options such as Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, Superpower, Gunk Shot, Low Kick, Iron Head, Stone Edge, etc. Diggersby isn't limited to its role as a wallbreaker, however. It is also able to revenge weakened offensive mons with a strong Life Orb boosted STAB Quick Attack. Quick Attack does do quite a bit of damage, and it can actually sweep some offensive teams with Quick Attack after Diggersby boosts to +2 attack with a Swords Dance.
Good Teammates: Diggersby works best on offensive teams focused on a mon or two that share similar counters/switch-ins/checks to Diggersby. At first, this may not seem like a good idea, pairing mons that are walled by the same thing because how are you going to get past the walls without a mon that actually beats them? However, Diggersby is one of those mons that actually benefit other mons with the same counters because it is able to wear down both of their counters and switch-ins. At one point throughout the game, the walls will break from the pressure Diggersby puts on them, and Diggersby's teammate will be able to come in to set up and sweep. Diggersby is also pretty good paired with trappers like Gothitelle and Magnezone. Gothitelle is able to trap and remove or cripple all of Diggersby's counters and a majority of its switch-ins. With Diggersby's counters and switch-ins out of the way, it has a great opportunity to break through teams to construct a situation where the sweepers of the team can clean up late game. Magnezone is pretty similar to Gothitelle, but it is much more limited in the mons that it can trap. The main mon that it removes for Diggersby is Skarmory, which really threatens Diggersby because it is the one mon it doesn't really have a way to break past. Magnezone can do more than remove Skarmory, however. It is also able to revenge / force out many of Diggersby's counters/switch-ins/checks.
What Counters It: There are not many mons that are able to switch into Diggersby because it hits very hard, and has near unresisted coverage with its STABs. The only mons that can truly counter Diggersby are very physically defensive walls like Skarmory and Slowbro. Although, if you look at the mons that counter or can switch into Diggersby, a majority of them can be trapped with Pursuit or Gothitelle, or easily worn down. When Diggersby's counters are removed, it can tear holes in defensive teams even moreso. However, Diggersby has a hard time sweeping due to the large list of checks that it has. It has more than 30 switch-ins/checks in Overused which does not bode well for Diggersby. As a result of all the revenge killers able to force out Diggersby or kill it, Diggersby isn't really seen getting too many kills against offensive teams. However, if Diggersby comes in on the right mons, it can definitely put in some work.
csc:
SD + 3 Attack Diggersby
Counters: skarmory (defensive), slowbro, m slowbro, celebi
switch ins: gengar, m aerodactyl, gyarados, rotom-w, dragonite, m swampert (rain)
Checks: manaphy, excadrill (balloon), garchomp, m gyarados, keldeo, landorus-t, m lopunny, latios, m metagross, m scizor (offensive), m gardevoir, kyurem-b, tyranitar, starmie (lo), m venusaur (off), m venusaur (def), alakazam, weavile, m medicham, serperior, m pinsir, breloom, victini (band), terrakion, m gallade, m heracross, mamoswine
e: I'm unreserving the mons that I had reserved earlier, so they are open for anyone to do now. I am sorry that I am not able to get them done, school work is piling up, and I really need to focus on school more. However, I will still work on them when I find the time.
Last edited:
Yeah ill try updating the thread tonight. I also have School work to handle. Thanks to everyone whos contributed so far.
Manectric @ Manectite
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Hidden Power Ice
Role:
Late game cleaner
What It Does:
M-Manectric is an absolute terror to Offensive teams. With the ability to gain momentum through Volt Switch, combined with its pseudo-BoltBeam coverage, makes it very difficult to keep at bay once it's checks have been weakened.
Good Teammates:
The likes of Latias, Latios, Hippowdon, Clefable, Heatran, Tyranitar, are all troublesome to M-Manectric. On HO, it's usually paired with Keldeo or AV Metagross. AV Metagross acts as the switch into Lati@s and breaks down Clefable in one hit, while Keldeo acts as a mon that's gonna break down Hippowdon, Tyranitar, and Heatran for M-Manectric to clean up later on. Tyranitar is found paired with it on Offense/Balance to compliment M-Manectric, while setting up sand for the likes of Excadrill so that M-Manectric and Excadrill can form a lethal duo to destroy Offense
What Counters It:
Latias, Latios, Hippowdon, Clefable, Heatran, Tyranitar are all problematic to face because of their typing and defensive prowess.
Any Additional Info:
None
Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
Role: Rapid Spinner
What it does: So, Starmie is a cool option for offensive team as a Spinner. Starmie is a very fast pokemon sitting in a good speed tier of 115 and that makes it a very realiable hazard remover. It's easy for Starmie to Spin Hazard away thanks to the speed and the ability to dent massive damage to supposed spin blocker such as Gengar. As a hazard remover it has basically the same cons as Latios/as, such as being Pursuit trapper by the like of Ttar, Weavile and Bisharp. But unlike Latios and Latias it can catch Scarf Ttar on the switch and Ko with analytic boosted Hydro Pump. The coverage of choice let it beat a large amount of hazard setter in the tier and that is why this thing is so good at doing it's job. Garchomp, Lando-t and Hippo are the most reliable rock setter in the tier and Starmie is a very cool way of dealing with them, koing with no problem. The large amount of switch it guarantees are also exploited thanks to the wonderful ability in Analytic. All in all Starmie offer, thanks to its typing a cool way to deal with some annoying threats, such as Keldeo and MMetagross.
Good Partners: All the mons that appreciate the field clear of hazard are good partners. Talonflame, for example, forms 2/3 of a FWG core with it and they have also good offensive synergy due to the ability of Starmie of removing the threats to Talonflame, such as Slowbro, Hippo, Chomp and Lando and Talonflame that is able to deal with Ferrothorn and Mvenusaur. Weavile makes another good partner, because usually offense tend to have just a Keldeo to switch into that monster and Starmie has literally no problem dealing with it, especially if Weavile knocks his item off. Kyurem-B is another mon that appreciate the ability of Starmie that keeps rocks away and in return it gives the team a very solid electric switchin, that really threatens Starmie.
Counters: Clefable (be careful with analytic booste hydro), Ferrothorn, Mvenusaur are good counter, Fast Electrics, AV Torn-T, Alakazam and Malakazam are overall good checks. Pursuit trap rip (Weavile, Tyranitar, Bisharp)
Sorry for some english mistakes, i'm not that good. I hope this is ok :]
- Status